Sunday, November 3, 2013

Alpha Mail: cracks in the marriage

TO wonders what to do about a marriage that appears to be breaking down:
You gave me good advice 4yrs ago so I am writing again. I am having major problems with my wife due to the drop in my SMV. I went from owning a commodity firm to being in nursing school while my wife works paying the bills. She now constantly talks about divorce and how she hates where she lives and wants to move back to NY. An additional factor is she hasn't found a church she is 100% comfortable with. It is only my strong frame and the fact I keep the firm open on the side giving her hope has keep us together these past few months. My other concern is I have to spend a lot of energy gaming her and end up reading games sites at 2am when I need to be studying.

To complicate matters when we first got married she was violent and ended up seeing a shrink. She is better now, but she really damaged the emotional connection we have and I worry she will revert to previous behaviors in times of stress.

The plan was for her to homeschool our kids so when I graduate she would be quitting her job and hopefully all would return to normal SMV wise. Of course I am also christian and don't believe in divorce. On the other hand if I fail out due to all the drama she will be gone anyway plus my SMV could be damaged severely.  In addition there  are plenty of 18-22yr olds (less pretty, but better SMV ratio) who have expressed interest in me at school. My wife is 27 and I am 30 (look 25). I graduate in May 2015. Any advice would be appreciated, really feel like starting over at this point.
My advice is as follows:
  • Get your act together and graduate on time.
  • Get off the Internet in the evening. You're hiding from her. If you're not studying, you should be engaging her in one form or another.
  • The next time she brings up either divorce or New York, tell her to knock it off. She made her choices, this is the life she is living, and that's that. This isn't a game with some sort of reset button.
  • Stop flirting with your fellow students. You've made your choices too. Live your life, stop fantasizing about a do-over.
The problem is the reduction of his SMV due to his loss of income and status. He has to get over his understandable feelings of betrayal; her lack of attraction to him and confidence in him is no more surprising under the circumstances than his would be if she suddenly gained 30 pounds.

It was a dumb idea to think that he could live off her job for a while, as women always want to leave whenever they find themselves forced to act as the breadwinner. So, the answer is easy. Focus like a laser on increasing income and status, become the breadwinner, and most of the problems will resolve themselves, so long as new ones aren't introduced in the meantime.

61 comments:

tz said...

I would add that the man needs to be the spiritual head. She may not like any church, but you should read the bible together, and pray togetther, with you initiating things and presenting a strong, confident, image of Christ to her. Your SMV dropped because of externals, but internally you probabaly changed and you started acting lower. PUAs can learn alphaness, you should recover it. You are doing hard work and investing time and effort. You might also need to take or regain control - wife as breadwinner doesn't mean she should control the finances or household. (Make sure she has cosigned your student loan debt).

On divorce, if YOU didn't believe in it, you wouldn't even think about remarriage (or worse, fornication). If your wife wants to abandon both you and Jesus, you may not be able to prevent it. But how you react to it is under your control. And it may be a way to control you, a button she pushes and you give in, a "shit-test" that you fail if you don't come back with a firm response. If the Divorce hints don't go away, you have to be ready for a scorched earth response. If she is threatening Divorce, she is threatening worse violence at a more profund level, to destroy "the one flesh" which you became. If she was casually hinting about cutting off both your legs?

There may exist christian game-aware marriage counselling as well, but I don't know of any ornwhere to look. The blogs and books (Dalrock and Athol) miht help, but she would have to accept them - that her discomfort comes because of her empowerment.

My prayers will be with you and your family.

FeminizedWesternMale said...

tz - great comment

cb6f3d30-2f6b-11e3-9035-000bcdca4d7a said...

If the Divorce hints don't go away, you have to be ready for a scorched earth response

Part of that might be to point out to her that the child support she gets will be based on his income, the lack of which is why she wants the divorce in the first place. If she has any friends who are single moms getting no child support, tell her to ask them what that's like.

Of course, she has a scorched-earth response to that available: leave him and NOT take the kids. Women don't often do that, but I know one who did.

Iowahine said...

tz - her discomfort comes because of her empowerment

This says it all and more.

Matamoros said...

As regards the scorched earth response, he should already be getting everything possible back in his own name. He had a business. If she wasn't on the officers, he can use that to put everything in the business name, which is even better.

It is always a mistake to have things in both names. Always should be only in the husbands, or a corporation with only his name on it.

fc6cedc2-d6a8-11e2-b860-000bcdcb471e said...

It is always a mistake to have things in both names. Always should be only in the husbands, or a corporation with only his name on it.

Its cute you think that matters in a divorce. The court doesn't care whose name what is in. And if the man has a genuinely non-marital asset, the court has no problem splitting the marital ones 90/10 in favor of the female.

The only reason for you to have it all in your name is so your wife can't put your nuts in a vice during the divorce proceedings.

Part of that might be to point out to her that the child support she gets will be based on his income

This is incorrect. Child support is referenced off the man's reasonably expected income, not what he actually makes. So if you are say a software engineer who pulled down $90k a year, and then swapped to being a minister making $30k a year the court will base your child support payments on the $90k.

The horror stories where a man gives up 90% of his paycheck to taxes and child support are legion, because the court isn't all that interest in awarding hardship modifications when its initial guess about the man's potential is wrong.

Doom said...

Does he realize that, by going to school on her work, he has increased the value of what he will have to pay out when she divorces him? Just that alone will upset any balance more than what exists. If she is truly violently histrionic, there might be an easy way to lessen the costs. Love is gone, it's down to business. Think.

Mike Jojo said...

Thank you Vox for the response. What do you think about working part time? Would making 15k while she makes 45k make much of a difference, or is it so negligible (in SMV terms) I should focus 100% on school.?There is also alimony (no children). I don't know legally if I would be in a better position if I worked part time or not at all in case of divorce.

Good call on the hiding. I dumped my home internet, but I usually end up on my phone in the evening to avoid a potential fight. Have to confront it instead.

TO

cb6f3d30-2f6b-11e3-9035-000bcdca4d7a said...

You need to talk to a lawyer to get an expert opinion, but alimony is generally paid by the higher earner to the lower, and the greater the difference, the more the alimony. From that point of view, you're better off not working.

With no kids, I don't think you have anything to lose financially by divorcing; if I were in your situation I'd have given her signed divorce papers with one hand and a ticket to NY with the other by now. But I'm not a Christian, so don't take that as advice.

Mike Jojo said...

@TZ

Yes, I have been slacking in the spiritual department as I mostly avoid her while before we had weekly bible studies I will start those up again. I do control the finances and have no student loans. School is payed for through scholarship and savings with my parents paying for books. No doubt it is hard to control frame and alpha need when you are disrespected a lot.
We are already at the scorched earth stage. To clarify, we are moving. When she put down her income and I put down full time student, the sugar mama jokes started. When we got home she flipped and we fought most of the night. After she made the divorce comment I told her go ahead, there are plenty in line behind you and then brought a duffle bag to the room for her to pack. (She didn't pack it)
She is aware of why she feels the way she does. She straight out said all my sisters husbands are the provider and you are not. But being aware doesn't change the way she feels.

Mike Jojo said...

Above comment to TZ was mine.

TO

Mike Jojo said...

@CB

In that case I will find a job off the books. Thank you for the advice.

cb6f3d30-2f6b-11e3-9035-000bcdca4d7a said...

I repeat that you need to talk to a lawyer about this, but I don't think going off the books will help if you do it while you're together. If she knows you have a job, she can document it to the court no matter how you're getting paid.

If you do split up, and alimony gets awarded, that's the time to get an off-the-books job so she doesn't find out and get the award adjusted.

Regarding her feelings: it's possible that even after you graduate and become the breadwinner again, they might not go back to what they once were. How you should proceed in that case is a subject I'll leave for your fellow Christians and the Bible to address.

NATHANIEL MANELLA said...

OT but i'm sure plenty will be interested in.

equality in action in the military

Female in the army spouted off that she could hang with the guys, and take any marine on the FOB.. this was the result.

SarahsDaughter said...

Nathaniel - that.was.awesome.

Opened Eyes said...

Your marriage is over. Act now to protect yourself.

Stickwick Stapers said...

The husband-as-student situation is usually asking for trouble. Good friends of mine barely survived that situation -- she was working full time earning the majority of the income, and hubby was a graduate student who was really taking his time finishing the degree. They had a terrible time of it, with her constantly wanting to move back home, until he finally graduated. The only time it seems to work is when the wife is also a student or if she's a stay-at-home wife and they're living off savings or student loans. This doesn't help TO, but hopefully single men reading this realize it's best to get the schooling out of the way and a career going before getting married.

Female in the army spouted off that she could hang with the guys, and take any marine on the FOB.. this was the result.

What in the world made her think she even had a chance? Seriously. How does a woman get that delusional? To my untrained eyes, it looks like the Marine went pretty easy on her, and even then it doesn't appear she landed a single punch. And that was pretty classy of her at the end to refuse to shake hands. Equality. Yeah.

Vox said...

What do you think about working part time? Would making 15k while she makes 45k make much of a difference, or is it so negligible (in SMV terms) I should focus 100% on school?

Depends. How much longer do you have to go? The problem is that there are no job guarantees when you graduate.

Vox said...

To my untrained eyes, it looks like the Marine went pretty easy on her, and even then it doesn't appear she landed a single punch.

The Marine had no idea what he was doing. None. But he was so much faster and stronger than her that it didn't matter. She did take a punch well, though. Give her that.

I would have put her down in ten seconds. I kept waiting for him to throw a body shot to double her over - she was leaving her belly completely exposed - then throw an uppercut to knock her out. But I doubt he had any actual ring experience.

Mike Jojo said...


May 2015. I was planning to work part time as an LNA to get in good with the hospitals before graduating. No guarantees, but one of the few fields where I have minority status.

Brad Andrews said...

It likely isn't accurate, but going from managing money (or producing it depending on the commodities you are talking about) to being a nurse is likely a permanent hit. It may be a necessary or worthwhile one, but I would strongly bet it is huge in her mind.

Stickwick Stapers said...

The Marine had no idea what he was doing. None. But he was so much faster and stronger than her that it didn't matter.

I just showed it to my husband, and he said the same thing. But even so, it looked like the Marine was deliberately not hitting her as hard or as often as he could have. It seems there is an instinct in most men not to go full-force with a woman, even if she's asking for it. And, yeah, I figured someone like you would have made a much more devastating example out of her. This example was merely embarrassing.

Mike Jojo said...

@Brad

One of my fears. To graduate, get a job and find out she still looks at me as if I pulled a bait and switch. I was a trader, pfgbest got me. Ethically I agree with anne barnhardt, no FCM is secure so I couldn't go back into biZ even if I wanted too and personally I am not interested in a career where income can go from 100k to 0 overnight. None if that matters to the hamster though.

cb6f3d30-2f6b-11e3-9035-000bcdca4d7a said...

A possible scenario for you to worry about:

She realizes (or has it explained to her) that if she divorces you now, she gets the short end of the alimony stick. So she waits til you graduate and get a good job, then quits hers and files for divorce. Three variations:

1. She swallows her resentment and makes nice for the next year and a half. (Maybe she lacks the acting chops to keep this up that long; you're the best judge of that.)

2. She's so sure you won't divorce her that she keeps bitching at you the whole time. I don't know what you do then, since your religion forbids divorce, murder and suicide.

3. When she files, she's either pregnant or has already popped out a kid. No need to elaborate. . .

Here's an idea that just occurred to me. Ask your wife to sign an agreement that if she files for divorce in the future, she will not seek alimony. Tell her that if she doesn't sign, you will have no choice but to divorce her now, while you're the one who will collect. If she refuses, you can always back down.

Mansizedtarget.com said...

Sue first, and get alimony. Divorce threat is bullshit, and you need to run away even faster when a woman tries to run away. It sucks, but this marriage sounds dead. I hate divorce, never want to get divorced, come from a good and happy home with folks married 40+ years, and have never gotten married in part for that reason. That said, I'm not sure the money thing will sort this out. This woman does not respect you, the concept of marriage, or much else. Do you have family or pastor or church or other people you trust to talk sense to her If not, be prepared to strike first. Right now your child support and alimony obligations are close to zero.

Black Poison Soul said...

When she starts talking divorce, start thinking about and working towards becoming an expat. This one is extremely low value and will take you to the cleaners. You will be better off as a world citizen and the USA doesn't give a shit about what's best for you.

cb6f3d30-2f6b-11e3-9035-000bcdca4d7a said...

@Mansized:

Sue first, and get alimony.

Good and obvious advice; I'm pretty sure TO would have already taken it, except for one thing: he's Christian and doesn't believe in divorce. Anything we say to him needs to take that into account, or we're just blowing smoke.

Mike Jojo said...

So the advice of every non/christian is to next her. Since I'm Catholic and we weren't married by a catholic priest, our marriage isn't valid, but I doubt that's a loophole G-d looks upon with favor. I am a citizen of the EU and have thought about heading over there to take care of old/sick clergy if it doesn't work out. I doubt I would be able to work in a mostly female environment without committing fornication at least once as a single man

Doom said...

cb6f3d30-2f6b-11e3-9035-000bcdca4d7a,

"Anything we say to him needs to take that into account, or we're just blowing smoke."

Can't help a man who won't even listen to Christ. If he wants to be the equivalent of a nice middle class girl who walks in to a outlaw biker bar for bubble gum, or so she says, can't help. Hell, I don't even care or want to know.

rycamor said...

I'll make one small suggestion here to Christian men in this sort of situation: much much better to work a manual labor job even if you make less money than to become a student again, especially at something like nursing. Women can be very logical at times, but they are still creatures who process things by appearance and context first, substance second. Going from an Alpha job like commodities trader with his own company to studying for a seriously Beta job like nursing just feels like defeat to her. Sorry, but there it is. Even if you will make good money at nursing, it is still... nursing. I'm guessing she doesn't even like telling people about it. I know, I know, in this day and age nursing isn't supposed to have that stigma for men, but that's just the Official Position, not the heart.

But, if a man takes a hit in business and comes out of it by pushing with every fiber of his body to reinvent himself at something like carpentry, construction, tree surgery, or even starting his own business as a painting contractor or something like that, and seriously *owns* his work a) he can make pretty good money and b) he can come home all sweaty and in rock-hard shape, sweep his wife into his arms and say "stick with me, baby, and we'll make it." In fact, if he owns his own blue-collar company, he has the potential to make better money than many white-collar jobs.

Now, @MJ, you're already into it, and I say better to finish the degree than look like a quitter, for sure. But be prepared for serious shit if you can't get a decent nursing job right away. Still be ready to go to one of the manly labor jobs. I know Vox said to focus like a laser on finishing the degree ASAP, but I would consider finishing the nursing degree at a slower pace, mainly night school, and get a blue collar day job like I described above. One that you can seriously put some effort into. It can make a man out of an adolescent thirty-year-old.

Now, women love masculinity in many different forms. Some women perceive hard manual labor as masculine and attractive, some don't. Not knowing your wife, none of us here can say, but I throw it out as something to consider.

P.S. if you do decide to do this, don't ask her opinion. even something like "what would you think if I did X?" Just do, or do not. In fact, I wouldn't tell her about it until she asked why you came home all sweaty the first day.

cb6f3d30-2f6b-11e3-9035-000bcdca4d7a said...

Rycamor's comment raises an interesting (somewhat off-topic) question: Does it generally lower a man's SMV if he works at a traditionally female job (such as nurse, secretary or elementary school teacher), other things (including income) being equal?

rycamor said...

BTW, also you should know that at thirty, your story isn't told and done. Your life can take many more twists and turns, so don't ever fall into some fatalistic thinking like "X is what I am now, and that's that." I honestly had no idea what I was going to settle into until about the age of 34 when I was already married. There were some tough times over that, but she stuck with me and I am now quite well established in a line of work that would have surprised me 20 years ago.

Mike Jojo said...

My wife is the exact oppositManual labor (I considered the oil fieleds) is low class, intelligence is sexy. My scholarships are merit based btw. Don't know about the SMV of a nurse, there are to many different kinds. Nursing home =unsexy. Nurse anesthetist, NP who can run their own clinics in certain states, flight nurse=sexy. And yes I know how to spell field and opposite, but my iphone won't let me go back up to edit

rycamor said...

Quite possibly, but remember you can't always go by what women say. Observe.

JCclimber said...

Mike,
the issue here is that having a husband doing nursing for career gives her no bragging rights in any woman conversations. Sure it is portable, fairly well-paying, secure job, but that is not going to cut it. Especially compared to the bragging rights of your previous job. You followed Anne's logic that that field was not a good long-term one for a small player. Correctly.

I'd advise you to pick a time when she is in a good mood and your alpha credo is a bit higher for whatever reason, and tell that you've been exploring the options open to you with a degree in nursing. And those options would be to rise in management, hospital administration, starting your own nursing consulting company, or any other field open to a nursing graduate that can be seen as higher status.

As for the sugar mama thing, I would agree and amplify on it. Seriously.

JCclimber said...

Agree and amp.
"Yeah baby, you're my sugar mamacita! When those hot young nursing students hit on me, I tell 'em yeah baby you hot, but are you sugar mama hot? Like my sugar mama?"
or
"hey sugar mama, let's go get some sugar in the bedroom!"
or
"yep, someday when I'm pulling down 6 figures and you're kicking it at home, raising our brood and cooking up a storm, I want you to remember to call me sugar daddy at least once per week!"

Better yet is to do this once or twice and drop the subject, and never let it be raised again. You've got to establish rock solid faith that God has got your back, will meet your needs if you're doing your best, and never, ever let her see you doubt it for a second. If you have a tendency to let confidence slip while drinking, quit drinking for a couple years. etc.

God will have your back, if you do your part. Your part includes having faith in His promises. Can He count on you? If He can't, she won't either.

pdwalker said...

Marriedmansexlife.com.

If you're not familiar with it, check out the blog archives and read from the past forwards.

If there is any chance to save your marriage, the advice there will go a long way towards the understanding you need to deal with the problem.

It is up to you to fix the problem.

Good luck.

Mike Jojo said...

Excellent point. I have more social status as a broke commodities trader then a rich nurse. I will look into your suggestions.

Yes, she got to pay for all the loving I give her!

Aurelian said...

Mike she considers herself a woman first then christian second. Or third. Or....

Aurelian said...

I would seriously consider that the marriage is over. Now is the time to finish the nursing degree and start making success happen. The vibe I'm getting is 'if I do this she'll stay'. Nurses, depending on the specialty, can make really good money. Now is the time to make the dream happen. If she's there all well and good. But, if not, see ya baby! be the best you you can be. It has to be about you.

Jew613 said...

Mike, if you have EU citizenship you should start working on going overseas. There is always a need for nurses and if you are living in Europe your wife's options for divorce are very limited. Particularly if she is not a EU citizen.

Also if you have children with this woman and you take them with you to the EU it would be difficult to impossible for her to take the kids away from you, even if she got an American court to grant her primary custody she would have to get a EU court to agree. A process that takes years even if she would succeed.

Does your wife have foreign citizenship?

Jason773 said...

Do we not even see the ironic LOLz that people of the church bring? She is OPENLY talking about divorcing him, yet because of the magic fairy in the sky he has to try and keep it together and succumb to her every idiotic emotion. In reality, the best advice here would be nuclear, something along the lines of "stop talking about it and do it; and if you don't file then I never want to fucking hear that word from your mouth again". Either call her bluff or make her regret the day she actually did divorce you by becoming a better man post-marriage.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

My advice?

For what it's worth (and it's free), I'd say get ready for a divorce. Try and finish grad school as soon as possible, but just be prepared for the marriage to end.

And if it does end, then you're going to have to wait for her to either hook up or get married before you can start a new relationship with another woman. Remember, Jesus did say that it is adulterous to divorce and remarry, except in cases of sexual infidelity. So while you are legally divorced, you are still married in the eyes of God.

I hope that you can work things out with your wife. Or rather, that your wife stops being a bitch. The only way you are going to make this whole thing work is to become an uber-Alpha or finish school ASAP.

Brad Andrews said...

@Mike,

> "I am not interested in a career where income can go from 100k to 0 overnight. "

That is true from almost any job today Mike, except of course for ones that never make it to 100k.

I would encourage you to evaluate your own drive to go into nursing. Are you doing it because of the stability you think it will provide? Because you have a passion for it? Something else? It may be stable, but nothing in this world is always stable.

A big concern I would evaluate in myself would be what happened to your drive. You should be wanting to accomplish something in life. What is your driving factor? I may be off, but I am guessing that is an even more serious underlying issue than this.

I have been going through my own challenges, after being rejected by all 4 of our adoptive children. That really sucks and can remove motivation as well. I doubt I will ever be one who tops the scales, but I have let a lot of my own talent float by and huge disappointments and frustrations helped that. Don't get caught in the same trap.

Your path may be a good one, but if you evaluate it and find it isn't, drop it immediately and do something more aligned with God's calling for your life. Much better to cut your losses than to keep going down a bad path due to inertia.

I do know as well that being dominant is going to provide a much better frame and a much better marriage than doing otherwise. Make sure that you keep your dominance no matter what. Focus on what is important and let all else, including reading these blogs if need be, fall aside. Someone noted that well in a comment near the start.

Nomennovum said...

The church doesn't really care about divorce anymore. You don't seem to like your wife much. She clearly doesn't like or respect you. She would have divorced you already if there were any alimony and significant child support in it for her, but there isn't because of your lack of income. Once you earn your nursing degree, it becomes a marital asset, which she gets half the value of. She will get a large chunk of your nursing income. She will divorce you once you begin to work and earn money. I sense a lack of strong game in you. You have to care about her to effectively game her. You don't.

Suspend your nursing education. Talk to an aggressive divorce lawyer. Protect your assets to the extent you can. And file for divorce as soon as possible. Rid yourself of this faithless women. Then improve your game and get someone better. You can even get alimony yourself, perhaps, which will teach her a lesson (probably not much, if any, though, given she will get custody of the kids and you will be liable for some child support, even with no job).

rycamor said...

swiftfoxmark2 said...
And if it does end, then you're going to have to wait for her to either hook up or get married before you can start a new relationship with another woman. Remember, Jesus did say that it is adulterous to divorce and remarry, except in cases of sexual infidelity. So while you are legally divorced, you are still married in the eyes of God.

This idea that--spiritually speaking--a woman holds a man's sexual future in her hands and can divorce him and render him celibate for life is simply not scriptural. In fact, scripturally speaking, after divorce he can marry another woman and she is still spiritually married to him. Bible never anywhere says polygyny is a sin. Not ideal, but not specifically called out as a sin anywhere. I would say a woman rebelling and leaving a man is pretty good grounds for a man to invoke his spiritual right to polygyny.

mansizedtarget said...

If you're catholic, a civil divorce is not necessarily a sin. You'll still need an annullment, but you never even had a sacramental marriage, so it's actually all quite a bit more simple. You should talk to a priest who knows what he's talking about.

One more thing, we spell the word, "God." Are you a Jew? This hyphenating thing is a Jew thing; last time I checked, we don't follow their rules or acknowledge their anti-Jesus views.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

"This idea that--spiritually speaking--a woman holds a man's sexual future in her hands and can divorce him and render him celibate for life is simply not scriptural. In fact, scripturally speaking, after divorce he can marry another woman and she is still spiritually married to him. Bible never anywhere says polygyny is a sin. Not ideal, but not specifically called out as a sin anywhere. I would say a woman rebelling and leaving a man is pretty good grounds for a man to invoke his spiritual right to polygyny."

I didn't say that. But you have to understand that Jesus made it very clear that if a man divorces his wife, except for sexual infidelity, causes her to commit adultery and if he marries another, he commits adultery. It is stated twice in Matthew (chap. 5 and 19).

As VD said from the beginning, this is the life that TO chose. And unfortunately, he bears a lot of responsibility to his wife despite her being an argumentative and unpleasant woman. VD's advice was spot on with regards to how TO should handle the current situation. But even that may not be enough to save the marriage. So, in the event of the divorce, he needs to understand the spiritual implications of it. If he divorces her and remarries, he commits adultery.

The main problem is that we have allowed women to initiate divorce, which is also not Biblical as far as I can tell. In my view this means that a woman cannot divorce her husband except in the legal sense. Think of what Gomer did to Hosea. She simply left him and took her children away. In that instance, she "divorced" him legally, but under God's law was still married to him.

This is a high standard, I know, but that is how I see it.

rycamor said...

Swift... this would apply if MJ/TO's were the one initiating the divorce, FOR the wrong reasons. Jesus never says "when a woman divorces her husband". In fact, in the first passage he only says the man commits adultery if he marries a divorced woman. In the second passage, it is all in one sentence, implying that it is wrong to just discard one woman for another at a whim.

Anyway, this point is likely academic because I doubt a 25-year-old woman who divorces her husband will go long without another man.

To the non-Christian doubters here, I know things look bad, but just because a woman mentions divorce, that doesn't mean it is the end. It could be the fatal blow, or it could be just a nuclear shit test. Those do happen. The biggest mistake our guy can make here is to kowtow to her emotions, of course. Impervious confidence and strength are his weapons. This isn't "game". Those character traits should be with a man on his lifelong journey no matter what.

Mike Jojo said...

I will talk to a priest and see what he says. If divorce comes I will end up in Europe, I have been looking for a reason to leave the US. Doubt I would marry again, sex isn't really worth it.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

I will talk to a priest and see what he says. If divorce comes I will end up in Europe, I have been looking for a reason to leave the US. Doubt I would marry again, sex isn't really worth it.

I hope you have a good priest. Many of them are Deltas and Gammas and are therefore unqualified to deal with marital issues. They also embrace modern views on female empowered and somehow believe that men and women are equal, despite no Biblical reference to it.

@rycamor

Like I said, I don't think there is a Biblical case for a woman to divorce her husband. As far as I can tell, only a man was permitted to divorce his wife and Jesus raised the bar by stating that it was only when there was sexual infidelity. I did say something contrary in my first post and I admit I was wrong on that point.

Essentially, if we were following the Biblical standard, then no woman could ever divorce her husband. This is key in that while there was a high standard for men and divorce, women being unable to divorce meant that they did not hold any power over men in this regard.

cb6f3d30-2f6b-11e3-9035-000bcdca4d7a said...

I hope you have a good priest. Many of them are Deltas and Gammas and are therefore unqualified to deal with marital issues.

I should think that any Catholic priest is unqualified to deal with marital issues on a personal level, unless he came to the priesthood after previously being married or in a serious relationship. What a priest is (or should be) qualified to do is tell you what the Bible says about such issues, and what the Church does or doesn't allow a man in Mike's situation to do. Hopefully that's the information Mike is seeking from a priest.

mansizedtarget said...

Priests see a lot of situations. Some are more street smart than others. And they are theoretically versed in the best of the western tradition. They're not necessarily beta losers with nothing intelligent to say. And their celibacy gives them a certain perspective that is valuable: professional independence and aloofness from the world.

Royal Tenenbaum said...

Here's an idea: start improving yourself.

Spend some time at the gym, go to a proper barbershop that can do an actual high and tight and can taper the edges/back to give you a more masculine 50s style cut (not Supercuts), dress better, and make your overall presentation greater. No more polo shirts and cargo shorts. Project masculinity by putting on Levis, boots, a leather belt, and roll up your sleeves to your biceps.You might not be the breadwinner, but you can improve the status you project.

It might also get her mind running, which is what you need. She may ask herself why you're all of a sudden getting in shape and looking better. (Personal experience: an ex-gf asked me the same questions when I got really into lifting. She thought I was improving myself for the market.)

Start doing the things women find appealing. Go caveman on her ass. Get your hands dirty and fix the car. Changing the spark plugs is simple but she doesn't know that - she just sees you getting dirty under the hood of the car, providing and doing something she can't even imagine doing. Go kill something and bring it home for dinner. Buy a gun and teach her how to shoot.

And, perhaps more importantly, let her know that the current sacrifices are for a better future. Remind her that you'll be successful and that she'll be able to share in that success. Doing that is just like running game of planning future trips with a girl you just started dating. Girls love that shit.

mansizedtarget said...

Just quote this great speech from Pimps Up Hos Down

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/05/13/what-betas-can-learn-from-pimps/

Keep on believin’ in me, baby, just like when I met you in the juke joint, and I came up wit you, and I said it’ll all be good. And I’ll lead you to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow [...] Winners never quit, and quitters never win. Because you never quit, we continue to win. I mean, it’s gonna be greater than this, we gonna go to Brazil and South Central [Ed: lol], you just stick with me. Come on, Natalie. It’s a long ways from that juke joint that we met, you know what I’m sayin’.

His Lordship said...

As far as I can tell, only a man was permitted to divorce his wife and Jesus raised the bar by stating that it was only when there was sexual infidelity

One does get odd ideas about what is in a book when one does not bother to look.

Res Ipsa said...

Mike JoJo,

Is it your intention to become a NP or are you looking at some other avenue for your career?

I ask because your wife hates the idea of her trading down in status. If the NP route gives you your own practice, then she might come to see it as a temporary down grade in order to advance her status latter. In that case she can likely sooth the hamster.

The thing I'm not seeing a lot of here is this: If you are committed to being a Christian then you need to do two things at once. The first is to man up, I mean noticeably, in terms of acting on your faith. You pick the church. You start bible studies and prayer with her at home.

The second is you must address your SMV in terms of your faith. Don't ignore the biological stuff but don't compromise your faith either. I don't see this as a time to "fake it till you make it". You need to be up front and open with her. Maybe something like:

"honey I know this transition is hard for you but this is the way it is going be for the next (however long)"
"If you want out, tell me know and go...otherwise, this is how its going to be"
#1 we are starting back to having bible studies together
#2 I'm going to pick a church for us to belong to and we are going to make that our church home
#3 You've been slacking off in the sack. I have to work with lots of hot young women, who have made it clear they want to fuck. It's too much of a temptation for me. Your job is to make sure I don't stray for a young girl with a tight ass and extra perky tits. This is going to require twice a days from you and a threefer on the weekends. Now go in the bedroom and either pack your stuff or strip off your cloths and get ready to prove that you're lucky to be my wife.

If she chooses to stay, after you have made love, don't get dressed or doing anything else first lead her in prayer. Confess that even talking about divorce is sin and recommit your marriage to the Lord. Ask for his blessing on and strength for your marriage. Instruct her to pray with you, out loud, have her verbally tell you and God about her decision to stay faithful to her marriage.

This doesn't guarantee things will work out. She already has one foot out the door. Make her make a choice. If she stays there is no looking back.


FWIW: Yes you two really need to be doing it at least twice a day. Her out of submission initially. That and she needs to be making that kind of investment in her marriage. You because its much harder for a man to cheat when he's gotten laid once today and will have to put out like a prize stud when he gets home.

Natalie said...

Just curious if when he says the sex isn't worth it if he means sex with her or sex in general? Not all guys have to have it every day, but flat out not having a sex drive is a problem. Wives need to see that spark (and yes, I know women want that spark from attractive men, and right not he's not that attractive to her. Being LD doesn't help though. Wives can be a lot like toddlers - we'll escalate until we have our man's attention.)

swiftfoxmark2 said...

One does get odd ideas about what is in a book when one does not bother to look.

Thank you for the correction.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

Did a little further digging. The reference in Mark's Gospel (I looked at the Torah and Matthew's Gospel), the only other reference I could find was in Paul's first letter to the Corinthians. In chapter 7, Paul states that a woman can be separated from her husband, but must be reconciled. It also outright states that a husband should not divorce his wife. So, I think my initial claim remains valid. A woman is not supposed to be able to divorce her husband, merely separate. A husband, however, should not divorce, except in cases of sexual immorality on the part of his wife.

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