Thursday, September 5, 2013

Shame Game

First of all, the evidence is conclusive.  Shame works on women. Here are two responses to the post written by a woman to address the selfie-taking attention whores acquainted with her sons:
"You’re a terrible role model and I’m ashamed of your judgmental attitude. It is absolutely shameful for you to be making such judgments of young women, they have a right to express themselves as they wish and it’s incredibly 1984 of you to be stalking your friend’s feeds. Also why are you going through your son’s photos, that’s almost psychotically disturbing. I can’t help but notice you’ve posted all these photos of your sons shirtless at the beach, yet that’s acceptable. Shame on you for spreading your psychotic backwoods standards to other people. I hope your sons learn better."

"Don't fret, black magic mini-sluts! It's not too late to repent. If you think you’ve made an online mistake, "RUN to your accounts and take down anything that makes it easy for your male friends to imagine you naked in your bedroom." 
Women don't react this way because something has no effect, but rather because the effect is so powerful that it alarms and frightens them. Which, the master Game theoretician reflects, could prove to be a useful tactic for the sufficiently adept Gamesman.

Ergo Shame Game. The negs practically suggest themselves:

"Hey, I didn't know this was a Slutwalk!  Team Slut, all the way!"

"Slut city, population you."

"So, would you say you are more of a slut or a straight-up whore?"

Remember, the essence of Game is forcing the woman to qualify herself to you. Slut-shaming her almost immediately puts a woman in a defensive cringe, and we all know that the female reaction to being in a defensive cringe is an intrinsically sexual one.

I don't know that Roissy has ever spelled out why being forced into defensive cringes are arousing to women, but I think it is logically obvious. Once a woman's psychological "you can't hit me because I'm a girl" defense is shattered, either directly or indirectly, her subconscious reflex is appeasement.

Essentially, the defensive cringe tingle is the woman's survival instinct pleading with the hypothetical attacker: "don't hurt me, don't hurt me, see, wouldn't you rather fuck me instead?"

This may also account for at least part of the bad boy appeal to women. The more dangerous a man appears to be, the more he triggers that instinctive reflex.

32 comments:

Adam Lawson said...

I have no problem with the idea behind the original post: Don't be a slut on the internet (or anywhere else).

But the posters questioning her for having the pictures of her boys are spot on, IMO. It's almost a little creepy that she's talking about this between pictures of her sons half dressed.

If I were a teen and my mom did that I would be freaked out. If my wife and I had a teen son and she did that, I would have a reaction she might not like.

I get that there's a difference between men in shorts only and women in towels only, and the visual differences between the sexes and our sexual responses. But a post writing about how great and chaste her boys are, castigating sluts, and then filled with pictures of them half naked?

She's going to be a MIL from hell one day. That's all I'm saying.

Again, she's right on about the selfies. Doesn't make the rest of it any less weird.

Trust said...

@ : "don't hurt me, don't hurt me, see, wouldn't you rather fuck me instead?"
________

Contrast that with "you're only being nice to me because you want to fuck me."

Amazingly such women will act seriously puzzled that men increasing opt to keep then off balance rather than pedestalize them.

River Cocytus said...

Winston Churchill, whatever else may be said of the man, understood this well:


At a dinner party Churchill says to his dinner companion, "Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?"

The woman responds, "My goodness, Mr. Churchill. I suppose I would."

Churchill replies, "Would you sleep with me for five pounds?"

She answers, "Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?"

Churchill answers, "Madam, we've already established that. Now we are haggling about the price."


Vox said...

It's almost a little creepy that she's talking about this between pictures of her sons half dressed.

What are you, latent homo? They're not "half-dressed", they're at the freaking beach wearing entirely appropriate beach attire. There are 70 year-old men here in Europe who don't wear one-tenth as much swimsuit at the pool.

If the boys were posing on their beds in their Calvin Kleins with their backs arched, showing off their buttocks, you might have a point. But they're wearing board shorts at the beach.

Don't be that gay guy.

JCclimber said...

Yes, it cracks me up all the fake cries of "Shame" over the pictures of boys being boys.

It's like our family pictures of my son with his young girl cousins running around at the water park. Saying that there is anything sexual at all about it reveals MUCH about the state of mind of the person.

Trust said...

Agree. Projection says a lot. Seems those who lie, cheat, manipulate, ect., are notorious for accusing others of what they do.

And people who are honest and loyal are surprisingly able to credit others with those same qualities even when they aren't there.

8to12 said...

You've stumbled into Alinsky's rule "make them play by their own rulebook."

If women think there should be no shame for their lifestyle, then we should start complimenting them on it.

Having a child out of wedlock makes you a model for other women. If only other women didn't care about what people think of them the way you don't.

There's nothing wrong with the way you sleep with so many random men. You should be proud of having sex of with so many guys.

byteme said...

"Slut-shaming her almost immediately puts a woman in a defensive cringe, and we all know that the female reaction to being in a defensive cringe is an intrinsically sexual one."

Yes and no, VD. You might put her in a defensive cringe, or you might just scare the crap out of her and she winds up attacking you, probably when your back is turned. You have to sleep sometimes, you know.

I'd be careful with the shame card, one reason being that women are dished out a dose of shame from day one, usually from other women, like the mom you mention. Women are horrible about shaming other women and they often do it pointlessly. The end result is that women become either completely shameless or fight back with passive aggressiveness. You shame a woman too much, she might smile sweetly and plan to sleep with your best friend. Or smother you in your sleep.

Other than that, I quite reluctantly grant you your point. In the larger game of life however, shaming women has brought about even more of the behavior our culture really doesn't want.

papabear said...

"I'd be careful with the shame card, one reason being that women are dished out a dose of shame from day one, usually from other women, like the mom you mention. Women are horrible about shaming other women and they often do it pointlessly. The end result is that women become either completely shameless or fight back with passive aggressiveness. You shame a woman too much, she might smile sweetly and plan to sleep with your best friend. Or smother you in your sleep."

Shaming used as a weapon by women to devalue other women? Predictable given fallen human nature. When it is under the supervision of men? Probably easier to curtail the abuse.

Vox said...

You shame a woman too much, she might smile sweetly and plan to sleep with your best friend. Or smother you in your sleep.

Oh, please. She is MUCH more likely to do either if she has contempt for you than if she feels shame.

I am curious, though. Are you a woman or are you just afraid of them?

shaming women has brought about even more of the behavior our culture really doesn't want.

That's insane. What has brought more of that behavior is the absence of shame and other negative consequences.

Now I'm sensing that you're a woman. Am I correct?

tz said...

I don't think the euro septuagenarians would likely appear in an Abercrombie and Fitch ad. But there's that Catholic U dis-invite of Geraldo Rivera.

Meanwhile... http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/01/this-week-in-anal-hazing-in-american-high-schools/

My only comment on the "Shame Game" is that women are becoming literally shameless. Other than running away as fast as you can, when the reply is "yes" to "So, would you say you are more of a slut or a straight-up whore?", is there a better response?

A double neg? Wouldn't that be a plus?

Adam Lawson said...

Vox -- it's not just the pictures themselves, it's the freaking context of a mother posting them in a post about sexy pictures.

It doesn't make me "latent homo." I'm not wearing a dress and bitching about the manosphere -- I'm pointing out something that seems kind of odd.

Yes, my choice of words was perhaps poor. I'm aware that it's beach attire. It's not just the shorts, it's the way they're presented by their mother.

Adam Lawson said...

Now I'm sensing that you're a woman. Am I correct?

Username is byteme and they've been on blogger since Sept 13.

I'm voting yes.

Weouro said...

Since the defensive survival instinct leads to Pavlovian tingles in virtually all women, it seems like there ought to be commensurate number of natural instigators of the defensive cringe. Or at least a lot more of them. Is the survival instinct of women more fully developed than the sexual instinct of men?

mmaier2112 said...

BULLSHIT, Adam.

Those beach pics are not sexual in any manner. They might be attractive to females looking at them, but that's completely incidental.

rycamor said...

Exactly, mmaier. Attractive is not automatically provocative or titillating, much less raunchy. Christians make a big mistake when they assume such idiocy. Not to mention, the girl equivalent of a sexy selfie would not be a picture, but a story. A psychologically intense story of dominance and submission, featuring a quasi-pathological narcissist male. Any guy who ever got curious and cracked one of those romance novels can figure this out.

byteme said...

Weuoro is likely correct.

byteme said...

Vox, you are presenting contradictory ideas. If you think shaming women causes them to modify their behavior, then you missed the whole slutwalk disaster. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Women don't respond to shame quite like men do.

Weouro said...

I want to phrase that differently. The sexual instinct of women is more ingrained because its linked with personal survival. For men it isn't. That's why women can't be fully red pill.

JCclimber said...

gotta be a woman. The logic disconnect, it is quite large.

JCclimber said...

Also, the biteme is assuming that we would shame our own woman as a means of modifying her behavior. I cannot imagine a single commenter on this forum having married someone they would need to slut shame.

It boggles the mind.

Adam Lawson said...

Well, whether or not my interpretation is correct or not -- the blogger apparently felt the need to repost the original without said pictures, while keeping the original up.

Which proves Vox's point: Shaming works. Even when it's other women.

They might be attractive to females looking at them, but that's completely incidental.

My point isn't that the pictures, in and of themselves, are sexual. My point is that in the context they were posted, it was a bit bizarre.

Pictures of your feet aren't sexual, either, but if someone was using them in an article about people taking sexy feet pictures it might come across a certain way, even if the feet pictures are innocent.

Take a deep breath and calm your Asperger's literalism, guys. Apparently she felt it was a valid enough point.

Adam Lawson said...

I cannot imagine a single commenter on this forum having married someone they would need to slut shame.

I don't think any of us here would marry someone we'd use the word slut in reference to in any way, unless that sort of dirty talk is part of the bedroom fun.

But there are game aspects that apply after marriage, because the psychology of game always applies to male/female relationship.

byteme said...

JC Climber, you completely miss my point. No doubt because I have failed to explain it properly. No, I do not assume anything about anyone personally. I was simply contemplating how game plays out in the larger culture.

Adam Lawson said...

I was simply contemplating how game plays out in the larger culture.

Game isn't part of the larger culture. At least, not in practice. Kim du Toit said it many years ago: "We have become a nation of women." Too many men have their own rationalization hamsters.

We all saw Hugo Danger making fun of the whiny "nice guys" on OKC months ago. That beta perspective is the larger culture in the United States.

Men wouldn't be getting railroaded by the family court system if there was a large swath of men acting as alphas. But it was bred/berated out of so many men (especially the ones raised without a strong male role model).

Dexter said...

OT Nicholas Giampaolo's alpha powers are strong!

http://nypost.com/2013/09/04/mom-daughter-fight-cops-over-boyfriend-bust/

A simple arrest yesterday turned into a sloppy smackdown after the arrested man’s teen girlfriend and her mom allegedly went blow-to-blow with cops collaring him.

Police cuffed grand-larceny suspect Nicholas Giampaolo, 22, at an apartment at 64th Street and National Drive in Mill Basin, Brooklyn, at about 10 a.m., cops said.

His 18-year-old girlfriend, Sonni Sottile, then went berserk — rushing outside in her pink pajama shorts and slippers to take swings at one of the officers, police said.

“Step back! Step back!” cops yelled.

But the manic teen went haywire and continued to charge at them, they said.

Two cops corralled Sottile, and one jammed his palm into her chin as he forced her to the ground.

As an officer placed her under arrest, her mom, Deborah Russo, 48, allegedly attacked another cop.

The scene turned into a full-on scuffle as cops tried to restrain both of the screaming, crying women. After they were finally subdued, one officer pulled a Taser, but did not use it.

Meegan Skaggs said...

hmm i think this is where misandry comes from... i hope you wankers know, deep down, that yall aren't alphas, you're the demographic who only gets laid in porky teen movies. alphas wouldn't stoop to such a depressing level. i bet you all smell like boiled cabbage and skid marks. good day 4-chan graduates.

Jack Amok said...

What are you, latent homo? They're not "half-dressed", they're at the freaking beach wearing entirely appropriate beach attire.

It is perfectly appropriate attire, and Vox is entirely right about this.

But I bet Mrs. Hall thought the pictures of her sons were appealing to their female age cohort, or she wouldn't have posted them. The point of her blog post was, after all, "girls, this is what you'll get cut off from if you don't follow my rules." She was trying to showcase her offspring, and going about it in pretty much exactly the same way (though less overtly sexual) as the pajama-wearing girls she was shaming.

Women intuitively understand men are visually stimulated, so attempting to present themselves in a visually appealing manner to attract a man is entirely natural. There are classy ways and vulgar ways of doing so, and Mrs. Hall's attempt to make her sons appealing to the girls she was shaming was certainly more classy than the girls taking duck-face selfies in their shower towels.

But I find it funny that she was engaged in the same basic practice she was complaining about and didn't seem to realize it. She was caught up in the same cultural stream of over-publicizing yourself through attractive photographs. She's just a little more classy about it than Miley Cyrus.

Also note that when she was called on it, she reposted the same text with different pictures of the boys. She responded to the counter-shame. Which brings us to...

"shaming women has brought about even more of the behavior our culture really doesn't want. "

That's insane. What has brought more of that behavior is the absence of shame and other negative consequences.


Although I disagree with Vox about the effectiveness of Mrs. Hall's attempt to shame young girls, the two of us (three of us if you count Mrs. Hall) are absolutely on the same page here. The absence of shame and of consequnces has been devastating to the character of too many young women.

aidankirby@aol.com said...

If ones past didnt matter, then Banks wouldnt look at Credit reports and make loan decisions via Underwriting!!
Not to mention HPV, a killer of men and women that is never discussed in the media which glamorizes adultery and casual sex.

It seems as a last resort, very lonely women will have casual sex more or less to cure their loneliness OR RECENT PAIN, rather than because they really love casual sex and feel wonderful and proud afterwards.

To me the above is only possible if the woman truly cares for herself, and does not have sexual "switches"..Sure, some women can bang tons of guys then finally fall in love, but more often than not something is missing.. The reason she can bang so many guys in the past is because she was emotionally "not all there", and more or less already scorned, bitter, etc.. A mere shadow of her true self.

Think of our most basic and true nature..Perhaps the first time we had sex..

Men will basically try to bang any girl or woman that will let them.. they cannot wait.. They are fantasizing about sex daily, and it is not involving "love" at all.
Now women are quite different.. Usually women have sex for the first time with a guy they at least think they love.. Not many girls are in a hurry to get banged by anybody.
Now over time, many girls can become abused, scorned, hurt, influenced by media etc, and they will drift away from their true nature, which is attaching sex to love.
While women CAN physically have casual sex over the years and it does not destroy them, inside they are never truly content with this..A very small % that might have underwent abuse/are bipolar/repeatedly hurt can block out their natural female emotions as a way to protect themselves.

Sorry,there are double standards..

One small example would be crying... Acceptable for women over many small things, not acceptable for men..I doubt many women would be attracted to guys who cried almost daily over any small thing.

I am pointing out that sex is vastly different for men and women.. That is how we are made.. Even the girl who says she has casual sex without emotions points out the sex she had was with people she was already emotionally connected to, her friends.

I have found that the most insecure women are the most sexual. Making a guy cum seems to be a quick fix for their insecurities. of course aftewards they feel like trash, or are so cold that they lack feelings completely.

I have NEVER met a secure, balanced, confident woman who could just have sex, get up, leave, and feel happy never seeing the person again.

aidankirby@aol.com said...

If ones past didnt matter, then Banks wouldnt look at Credit reports and make loan decisions via Underwriting!!
Not to mention HPV, a killer of men and women that is never discussed in the media which glamorizes adultery and casual sex.

It seems as a last resort, very lonely women will have casual sex more or less to cure their loneliness OR RECENT PAIN, rather than because they really love casual sex and feel wonderful and proud afterwards.

To me the above is only possible if the woman truly cares for herself, and does not have sexual "switches"..Sure, some women can bang tons of guys then finally fall in love, but more often than not something is missing.. The reason she can bang so many guys in the past is because she was emotionally "not all there", and more or less already scorned, bitter, etc.. A mere shadow of her true self.

Think of our most basic and true nature..Perhaps the first time we had sex..

Men will basically try to bang any girl or woman that will let them.. they cannot wait.. They are fantasizing about sex daily, and it is not involving "love" at all.
Now women are quite different.. Usually women have sex for the first time with a guy they at least think they love.. Not many girls are in a hurry to get banged by anybody.
Now over time, many girls can become abused, scorned, hurt, influenced by media etc, and they will drift away from their true nature, which is attaching sex to love.
While women CAN physically have casual sex over the years and it does not destroy them, inside they are never truly content with this..A very small % that might have underwent abuse/are bipolar/repeatedly hurt can block out their natural female emotions as a way to protect themselves.

Sorry,there are double standards..

One small example would be crying... Acceptable for women over many small things, not acceptable for men..I doubt many women would be attracted to guys who cried almost daily over any small thing.

I am pointing out that sex is vastly different for men and women.. That is how we are made.. Even the girl who says she has casual sex without emotions points out the sex she had was with people she was already emotionally connected to, her friends.

I have found that the most insecure women are the most sexual. Making a guy cum seems to be a quick fix for their insecurities. of course aftewards they feel like trash, or are so cold that they lack feelings completely.

I have NEVER met a secure, balanced, confident woman who could just have sex, get up, leave, and feel happy never seeing the person again.

aidankirby@aol.com said...

If ones past didnt matter, then Banks wouldnt look at Credit reports and make loan decisions via Underwriting!!
Not to mention HPV, a killer of men and women that is never discussed in the media which glamorizes adultery and casual sex.

It seems as a last resort, very lonely women will have casual sex more or less to cure their loneliness OR RECENT PAIN, rather than because they really love casual sex and feel wonderful and proud afterwards.

To me the above is only possible if the woman truly cares for herself, and does not have sexual "switches"..Sure, some women can bang tons of guys then finally fall in love, but more often than not something is missing.. The reason she can bang so many guys in the past is because she was emotionally "not all there", and more or less already scorned, bitter, etc.. A mere shadow of her true self.

Think of our most basic and true nature..Perhaps the first time we had sex..

Men will basically try to bang any girl or woman that will let them.. they cannot wait.. They are fantasizing about sex daily, and it is not involving "love" at all.
Now women are quite different.. Usually women have sex for the first time with a guy they at least think they love.. Not many girls are in a hurry to get banged by anybody.
Now over time, many girls can become abused, scorned, hurt, influenced by media etc, and they will drift away from their true nature, which is attaching sex to love.
While women CAN physically have casual sex over the years and it does not destroy them, inside they are never truly content with this..A very small % that might have underwent abuse/are bipolar/repeatedly hurt can block out their natural female emotions as a way to protect themselves.

Sorry,there are double standards..

One small example would be crying... Acceptable for women over many small things, not acceptable for men..I doubt many women would be attracted to guys who cried almost daily over any small thing.

I am pointing out that sex is vastly different for men and women.. That is how we are made.. Even the girl who says she has casual sex without emotions points out the sex she had was with people she was already emotionally connected to, her friends.

I have found that the most insecure women are the most sexual. Making a guy cum seems to be a quick fix for their insecurities. of course aftewards they feel like trash, or are so cold that they lack feelings completely.

I have NEVER met a secure, balanced, confident woman who could just have sex, get up, leave, and feel happy never seeing the person again.

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