Monday, September 16, 2013

Of women and university

Eight reasons not to send your daughter to college:
She will not learn to be a wife and mother.  

Nothing that is taught in a college curriculum is geared toward domestic homemaking.  On the contrary, it is training in a very masculine role of a professional career.  So there becomes a severe inner conflict in a woman when she starts trying to be a homemaker and juggle a career alongside it.  Often when a career woman discerns the possibility of giving up her career, she faces the reality that she has had no training in homemaking and often has the thought “What would I do at home all day.”  Stay-at-home mothers are actually very busy industrious women and do absolutely beautiful marvelous things.  Surely the business world severely undervalues those things they do, but the value to a family is beyond monetary compensation.  These abilities cannot be learned in any college.

The cost of a degree is becoming more difficult to recoup.  

Like anything that is subsidized by the government, the cost of a college degree is inflated.  That being the case, it can often be difficult or impossible to get an adequate payoff for the investment.  The most common example of that scenario is the job of a school teacher.  More commonly now we’re seeing situations where not only is the income not enough to support a family, but many are strapped with student loan debt.  Add to that the possibility of not even being able to get a job with the degree and you have economic disaster for a family before they even get started.  It makes much more sense for a young couple to have a husband with a skill that brings value to the marketplace that has reasonable compensation to go along with it and a wife who is willing to be frugal especially during the early years of starting their family.
These are the two big ones, in my opinion. The point is not that no young women should be permitted to attend university, but rather, that young women should be taught to see university attendance as a path that comes with certain advantages and benefits as well as certain disadvantages and opportunity costs.  Reflexive university attendance is foolish; there is no value in going into debt in order to get a sociology degree, or worse, as is very often the case, in order to not get any degree at all.

After all, if a woman is primarily interested in becoming a wife and mother, and is therefore only going to university to ensure she meets the desired quality of men, that can be arranged in a variety of ways for considerably less money than it will take to see her through 7 years of college and post-graduate education.


Crowhill said...

"Reflexive university attendance is foolish."


There is an assumption that everybody should go to college. That isn't a good assumption for anybody -- male or female -- and may be a more dubious assumption for women who intend to be wives and mothers.

Sugi said...

"After all, if a woman is primarily interested in becoming a wife and mother, and is therefore only going to university to ensure she meets the desired quality of men, that can be arranged in a variety of ways for considerably less money than it will take to see her through 7 years of college and post-graduate education. "

Anyone care to elaborate? I get the whole skipping on graduate level degrees, but I'm trying to imagine a scenario in this day an age where the average girl with homemaker intentions can land a quality guy around her age while competing against college floozies during her prime years.

Trust said...


Church. Gym. Bookstore. Friends. Beach. Ocean. Social activities. Etc.

The world consists of more than schools and bars.

Stickwick Stapers said...

This article has been making the rounds on Facebook, with the usual hyperventilating about how unrealistic and retro it is. Speaking as a woman who spent a decade getting several degrees, I didn't see anything to disagree with in the article. The point about education not being the exclusive domain of universities was especially pertinent. In fact, most subjects outside of the STEM fields provide very little in the way of actual education.

swiftfoxmark2 said...


If a woman is going to college to find a husband, then she's a fool and probably unworthy of courtship by any decent man.

Sugi said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sugi said...

@Trust & swiftfox

I understand there are many ways to meet people, but the economy has changed to the point where it's very difficult for a person to make any living without a college degree. Assuming that trade school careers are still in the realm of men, her whole livelihood as an adult rests on her ability to get a husband who can support the both of them. Her best chance to catch someone either much older and further in his career or try to snag some elusive alpha with a career trajectory who's already surrounded by girls he's going to school with. In either case, they won't be in her social circles, so landing them is going to be tough. On top of that, she needs to be able to secure commitment from them without coming off as a gold digger.

My journey to become more alpha has made me more aware of the different approaches that men and women have to take to mating. At the risk of coming off as white knight-ish, the more I learn about women, the more I respect how difficult the SMP can be to them. If I have daughters one day, I will have no clue on how to advise them to navigate it.

paul a'barge said...

This is very simple, really ... insist that the female pay for her college education 100% by herself.

Given this caveat, if she wants to go to Harvard and major in Gender Studies and then suffer for the rest of her life, it's her bad. All of it.

Stickwick Stapers said...

boxsterpaul, yikes. You might've warned that the link is NSFW with images that are explicitly pornographic.

herenvardo said...


+1. I have 2 daughters, one of which only wants to be a mum (aged 10). I have no idea what to tell them, other than that being a mum is the best thing they could possibly do. Coming from dad, I think it has some weight. I suppose I can only play it by ear, one day at a time...

asde9 said...

Did you see the comments on the bottom of that article? 5000 angry Facebook nobodies screaming Misogyny! lol!

fc6cedc2-d6a8-11e2-b860-000bcdcb471e said...

I love how much respect for other people's beliefs and culture is apparent in the comment section. I genuinely get the feeling that they want to understand rather than deride.

asde9 said...

I get sad when in the comment section of that good article...legions of people write endless paragraphs that repeat feminist doctrine. tells me that feminism is indeed a cult!!!
No dissenting opinions allowed from that group...even the men there are pussy whipped...are these American men? I live in Canada where eunuchs call the shots!

Quadko said...

Yeah, what's up with the 3-way disconnect between "what I want to do," "what it pays" and "going to college". That problem is genderless, but being the sole bearers of the next generation makes it harder for the ladies.

My siser-in-law is an engineering PHD working in one of the national labs. She's one of my heroes, and did it right as far as college degrees paying off. My wife is also my hero, but has a masters degree and FINALLY makes almost a third of what I do as a college drop-out in IT. "What do you mean I don't have a degree, I PAID for hers!"

River Cocytus said...


That's a fake stream, or I would regard it as a fake stream. Similar things go on in Tumblr (it is if anything, worse) generally such streams have a connection with some kind of porn outfit, even if somewhat indirect.

It's mostly a way to acquire followers that can be used to send direct messages for things like pay service solicitations.

If any such streams exist that are genuine 'coeds' outside of the imagination, I would be astounded.

Vidad said...


That was totally unnecessary.

Vidad said...

I've known a few nice girls that were wonderful until they went to college and turned into feminist harridans.

I was around, looking for a good mate, and found few worth pursuing.

There are good people, though perhaps not many, of both genders - it's just a matter of putting them together.

College ain't a very good place for that.

Serge_Tomiko said...

The vitriol of the comments is shocking.

8to12 said...

Sugi said: "I understand there are many ways to meet people, but the economy has changed to the point where it's very difficult for a person to make any living without a college degree."

Don't you mean, without the RIGHT college degree?

There are plenty of college grads working at Starbucks, and it's not due to the economy. It's because companies don't need people with degrees in (insert-worthless-major-here).

Unfortunately, women tend to major in (insert-worthless-major-here) and then complain they can't get a job.

Women that major in (insert-worthless-major-here) would be better off not going to college at all, because at least then they wouldn't have a huge college debt to pay off.

What man wants to marry a woman that is deep in debt and can only find a job at Starbucks, because she majored in (insert-worthless-major-here). She has made herself even less likely to get married by going to college and majoring in (insert-worthless-major-here).

Now, if she wants to go to college and major in math she should go for it. I know for a fact that math majors have good paying jobs lined up in their junior year--the demand is that high for competent mathematicians. But, if she wants to major in (insert-worthless-major-here), she is not only wasting her time, she is digging a hole she may never get out of.

-- Never marry a woman over 30 --

tz said...

A woman can get her degree early, but her fertility is high only for a few years then declines faster than the crash of '29.

The talents required to be a homemaker and raise children can be gotten entirely outside of college.

Long Lost Friend said...

I am a public school teacher (striving to be a wrench rather than a cog in the usual machinery), and I constantly enumerate to my students the ways they can make a living without a 4-year university degree.

I won't be footing the bill for any of my children to attend college, including my son. I am not going to forbid my daughters from attending college, but they will do so having listened to me discuss the virtues of being a good wife to a good man and a good mother of good children.

SarahsDaughter said...

From the article:
But mothers often say they could not stand to be with their children all day. What? Just stop and think about that sad sad statement. If that is the case, why did they have children? In choosing for our daughters, we may need to bring them to awareness of this attitude and direct them toward the single life or to that of a religious sister.

It is important, as mothers who are at home, that we not raise our children with an idea that this is some extraordinary task (deny the temptation to display a martyr status). We need to always let them know how blessed we are to spend our days with them when other women have to leave their babies to work for dollars. They should be told often of the joy that it is to be the one who cares for them, teaches them, nurtures them, and gets to see all of their "firsts." This necessarily means we edify their father and speak positively about him and his sacrifice that ensures that mommy can be at home. Within the home there should be a pity for other mothers who don't have the same choice. No matter how few luxuries we enjoy, the value of the time we spend with our babies has to be the priority above material things.

I can't stand seeing the various pictures and sayings of how hard it is to be a SAHM. I flaunt my lifestyle every chance I get. Especially with my daughters. I've taken them to the grocery store at quitting time on purpose just so they can see the harried moms in business suits or scrubs, with ornery babies they just retrieved from daycare, picking up dinner for the night and have made derogatory remarks of how off our timing was that day. It's so much more relaxing to shop when the only other people in the store are other SAHMs and sweet old people.

Stickwick Stapers said...

We need to always let them know how blessed we are to spend our days with them when other women have to leave their babies to work for dollars.

This is great advice. I'm a soon-to-be SAHM, and am very much looking forward to it. My mother was a SAHM, and she loved it; in fact, she raised it to the level of art form. We relied on my dad's income as a school teacher, which wasn't much back in those days, but it was a wonderful childhood for me and my brother. I want to pass on that love of hearth and home to my own daughter.

haus frau said...

If you don't have a specific, well-researched career plan you shouldn't go to college. I remember it being a common theme for myself and friends not knowing what we wanted to do with ourselves after graduating. In reality, we should have been setting ourselves up for a specific employment field well before graduating. As noted, degrees don't mean much anymore if they don't come with some technical skill.
It's not that difficult for a young woman to meet college men. A non-college girl is not automatically inferior socially to a college man. It just depends on what work she is pursuing and how she has cultivated herself. or other sites help people cross social boundaries that might have been barriers before the internet.

Doom said...

How many women, sent to college to find a man, miss the point? Most of them, if the records are any indication. Parents need to be more direct with their daughters, if they are going the expensive, if convenient for them, method of dumping the kid out on her own. I can't remember how many couples I have heard suggest they are putting off marriage until after she graduates. Doh! Rarely works out, from what I have seen, either.

I know a young woman who is about to head to college. I want to suggest she decide that raising a family and being a wife should be her focus. To find a good man and skip college, for the cost and losses. But honestly, I don't know her and her family well enough. Me? Her? In a second, save I am too old. I might go to the high 20's, but... not pre-twenties. Sure... have thought on it though. And I doubt if I am the only one. The numbers just don't work.

matamoros said...

Fortunately my daughters got full scholarships due to their high school grades, so they didn't have to accumulate the massive debt.

However, only one found a husband at college. They all say that most guys at college only want a girl for sex, and don't want a girl for a real relationship leading to marriage. So it is a problem for good girls. College used to be where a girl could go to find a quality husband, but no longer.

College degrees today are what high school diplomass were 50 years ago, and elementary diplomas were before that. A basic requirement to find a decent job. Want a job at Starbucks, you need a BA degree. Just a filter that companies use, but which have no relationship to the job.

Cheaper alternatives are bible school degrees/diplomas, technical certificates, and association certifications. They can all function the same as a BA/BS in getting a job without the expense, and time of a college degree.

I absolutely agree that colleges ruin women in general, and should be avoided if at all possible.

kh123 said...

From the comments:

Mark Nikirk
#1 Reason I'm currently sending my girls to college: So they can critically comprehend what they read and mentally flag BS like this article...

Training for ideological purity's more expensive now than 20 or even 10 years ago. Enjoy recouping on your childrens' tuition expenses, Mark.

Jack Amok said...

the economy has changed to the point where it's very difficult for a person to make any living without a college degree...

The other day Vox mentioned a correlation between short time preferences and an inability to imagine the world being significantly different than it currently is. Perhaps one clue to the decline of the university system is the fact that pursuing a degree is now evidence of short time prefernce thinking.

College degrees that are not essentially vocational in nature (engineering, pre-med, accounting, etc.) are already financial albatrosses. A guy who went to diesel technician school is already outperforming his High School buddy who got a generic degree. A girl who got a beautician degree might be financially outperforming one who got her MarComm degree once you factor in the student loan payments.

The folks pushing these overpriced finishing schools want you to think there's no future if you don't buy their services, but it aint true. At the same time they were jacking up the prices, they were dropping the quality and dilluting the value through over-supply. It would be one thing if there were simply a lot of college grads looking for work and you could still infer from their degree that they were responsible people of some intellectual ability.

But you can't any more. Average or even slightly below-average intellects can binge-drink their way through college now without learning or demonstrating work habits or any sort of personal discipline. Employers are starting to notice. Many still hold to the college degree filter out of fear of discrimiation charges, but two things are bringing that rapidly to an end.

1) the filter doesn't protect them, especially with complaints about sexism. They get sued anyway.

2) the filter doesn't do any good anyway, as the "filtered" candidates are no better and may be worse than the unfiltered. Companies that continue to rely on this broken tool will be beaten by ones that abandon it for functional solutions to their staffing needs.

Jack Amok said...

er, "beautician license" not degree. Critical difference there, should have proof read more closely. Point being, there are alternatives to a traiditonal degree that both teach skills and establish a character reference better than the average college.

Amy G said...

Wow - that comments section. It reminds me of overturning a rock and seeing a hive of cockroaches scatter in a fit of confusion. Eph 5:13 and all.

Also reinforces my decision to also be a SAHM (right on, Stickwick!) - if the world is against it, it has to be right.

Bill Solomon said...

I'm in college (SMU) and from my experience i would never send my daughter to college not only the reasons mentioned above but theres also a lot of pressure on girls to be sluts or be extremely lonely. And i have taken advantage of that pressure, but I really wouldnt want that for my daughter.

e96dd1c6-d05b-11e2-ad29-000bcdcb2996 said...

It's worth considering that the really high value men are likely to be majoring in STEM fields...which leave them little time for any kind of personal life. When I was at Virginia Tech (Aerospace & Ocean Engineering, '85), I averaged 70 hours/week of class/study/homework.

A woman looking to snap up a STEM husband can do it in college IF she is majoring in a STEM field. Otherwise, the post-college years are a better hunting ground.

JCclimber said...

It's worth considering that the really high value men are likely to be majoring in STEM fields...

Yep, lot's of natural alphas in the STEM fields.


You're still thinking with the old paradigm. Remember the expression "alpha fucks, beta bucks." Oh, I see what ya mean now. High value men as beta providers when the woman gets booted off the alpha cock carousel. Sorry.

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subject by design said...

The responses by those professing to be believers (people I know on fb) are embarrassing. No arguments, no logic, just lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth. I did a spoof of them on my blog post which I entitled "8 Reasons Not To Send Your Daughter to be a Stripper."
Subject By Design

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