Thursday, September 12, 2013

Evidence in support of a thesis

I have previously explained why intelligent women tend to be unappealing to intelligent and less intelligent men alike. In this article, a smart, educated, successful woman who is still single at 50 provides copious evidence in support of my thesis concerning the intrinsic unattractiveness of female intelligence:
Three months ago I went to Italy with my then boyfriend, Philip. As we were checking into the hotel, I struck up a conversation with the receptionist in Italian (just one of the five languages I speak). But while I was enjoying myself, chatting away, it became clear that Philip most certainly was not.

He shuffled from foot to foot, muttered something under his breath and rolled his eyes like a stroppy teenager. Then in the lift he turned on me. 'I was wondering when you were going to let me join your conversation,' he snapped. I tried to laugh it off but I knew this was the beginning of yet another argument.

'You always have to be the star of the show,' he continued in our bedroom, as he began to systematically work his way through the mini-bar. Apparently I was argumentative, a know-all and an intellectual snob.

What had I done? It should be depressingly obvious. I had dared to dent his fragile male ego....

For me, this is stating the blindingly obvious. I've lost count of the times men have rejected or insulted me simply because I was brighter, wittier or cleverer than they are. They have called me 'intimidating', 'scary', 'difficult' and 'opinionated'. Translated, that means: 'You are too clever and I don't like it.' An older male friend - supposedly tired of me dominating dinner-party conversation - even wagged his podgy finger and told me I would never get married because I was too confident and demanding....

And that's the thing. When it comes to love and marriage, I have watched with depressing regularity so many brilliant men choose beautiful but dull women.
Even the appeal of male intelligence has strict limits. I didn't do well with girls in junior high and early high school until I learned how to conceal aspects of my intelligence that turned them off. I had to learn to stop doing the info dumps, the impromptu lectures on things that I found fascinating, and instead make use of it as a weapon of social dominance.  The same girls who found the intelligent discussions of historical patterns and new technological developments so profoundly uninteresting were observably intrigued when I verbally flagellated another girl or a boy who had challenged me in some way.

The appeal of female intelligence is even more limited, mostly because it so often comes in the company of extremely annoying and unfeminine personality traits.  This correspondence is exacerbated by the fact that the average smart boy has been punched in the face a few times for annoying his less intelligent peers, while the average smart girl has had her annoying behavior rewarded by adults without any similarly negative consequences.

The key word in the article above is "argumentative".  That is the main reason why highly intelligent men can't stand intelligent women. The fact that a man is capable of having a substantive intellectual discussion with a woman doesn't mean he wants to do so every time he makes a simple observation.  When an intelligent, educated woman responds to a statement about it being cold outside by saying that it's really not all that cold because it's only 273 degrees kelvin, that doesn't make him admire her intelligence or her education. It makes him want to murder her, burn the body, and spend the rest of his life with an 85-IQ stripper with big breasts who isn't set on permanent disagreeable mode.

As offensive as this may seem to the average smart girl, I'm actually doing you all a favor here by explaining what everyone - everyone - really thinks about you. You're not threatening, you're just really obnoxious and annoying.  People don't admire you the way you admire smarter men for the obvious reason that they don't value intelligence as much as you do.  You're not in an elementary school classroom anymore.  Stop raising your hand every time you know the answer.

The fact that female intelligence is not a male attractor does not mean that it has to be an outright disattractant. Like the highly intelligent man, the highly intelligent woman has to learn how to utilize her intelligence in a judicious manner.

73 comments:

Tobias Templo said...

High IQ is a handicap for both men and women when it comes to socio-sexual interactions.

Men with high IQ tend to have aspy tendencies.

Women with high IQ tend to be argumentative.

Adam Lawson said...

I don't mind smart women.

I mind women (and men) who think they are smart, but are actually really ignorant and presumptuous.

I also don't like people who spend a decade or so in school studying something that isn't important or useful in any way, get a Ph.D, and then think they're the bees knees when it comes to intelligence.

Unknown said...

Gold. Tough sell to the target audience, but Gold....

mmaier2112 said...

Any person that thinks they are very intelligent because of a degree... simply isn't.

And anyone that thinks a PhD in teaching is a sign of intelligent probably doesn't even breach the three-digit threshold.

Laughingdog said...

"What had I done? It should be depressingly obvious. I had dared to dent his fragile male ego"

I love how she jumps straight to it being an assault on his ego because she's incapable of recognizing just how generally rude her behavior was.

Men don't hate intelligent women. Men hate bitchy women. The issue is that most intelligent women act like bitches.

Her problem is that she's failed three times over. Women only really need to do three things to motivate a man to want to be with her: be fit, be feminine, and be nice.

His Lordship said...

Ah, the woman is rude and cannot fathom why she is disliked.

Perhaps she expects to make history thereby.

LP 999/Eliza said...

Easily offended is not only augmentative but highly combative and toxic. Such women are henhouzers. They brag about being married, being smarter, be better than everyone else yet they land up all and abandoned by their own children, including this daughter.

To some degree, I've seen the mentally ill superiority baby boomer women explain how smart they are. The tragicomedy in mental illness is how the truly sick are the LAST to know.

Conscientia Republicae said...

Its just one of five languages she speaks.

GF Dad said...

Diane Chambers - the epitome of the "smart woman".

Zick said...

Its just one of five languages she speaks.

I know...so oblivious.

Kgaard said...

Geez ... I just totally disagree with this. I have been thinking recently that women are getting dumber due to the dysgenic breeding trends that began in earnest 50 years ago. The women I want -- my logical cohort -- don't exist in great numbers because they weren't born in sufficient numbers. Their mothers slowed down their baby-making starting around 1970.

A woman with a sub-125 IQ is not interesting to me for a long-term relationship because she will never understand where I'm coming from.

Bob Wallace said...

I don't mind smart women except when they try to argue when they don't know what they are talking about.

e96dd1c6-d05b-11e2-ad29-000bcdcb2996 said...

Kgaard, I don't think anyone disagrees with the idea of an IQ floor. Beyond about 15-20 IQ points, you just can't maintain a relationship on anything other than a parent/child level.

On the other hand, once a woman makes that floor IQ, more brainpower doesn't help as much as pretty, perky, and personable.

And it really works against a woman who indulges in intellectual one-upmanship

newrebeluniv said...

I reject the premise that a smart woman needs to be disagreeable. But it may be related to the same sort of social autism that smart men are often accused of. More often than smart women being opinionated, confident and demanding, are women who are very average, but convinced that they are highly intelligent and thus entitled to be opinionated, confident and demanding.

It's not as if we all have our IQ stenciled on our foreheads. People used to overcome obvious differences in intelligence with something called "courtesy".

BTW, I speak 4 languages. All poorly.

--Hale

dalrock said...

I would bet that for most men a high IQ is more likely than not a negative for a STR or fling, but for marriage having a woman with an IQ no less than 1 SD lower than his own is highly preferable. The problem for high IQ women looking for husbands though is twofold. Being smart may be a slight bonus to the men in their pool of desired husbands, but it also greatly reduces the pool of men they can reasonably choose from. Women seem to understand this when it comes to height, but not with IQ. Being tall means a woman needs to find an even taller mate, and this forces her to "spend" more of her SMP coin on height over other possible features like game, sense of humor, income, etc. All women are attracted to tall men, but tall women have to find a tall man while shorter women can be more flexible. The same is true for the high IQ woman; she has to find a higher IQ man, and higher IQ men who aren't socially awkward tend to possess the kind of status that all women find desirable.

This is all aside from the very accurate point you made that in our feminist era high IQ women tend to almost always come with a combative personality, which outweighs any advantage their high(ish) IQ would potentially have brought them.

bee6cee8-1bb6-11e3-8a7e-000bcdcb471e said...

Vox,

a counter example?

my wife is more intelligent than many men, we meet. i've been told by more than a few of them that they are intimidated by my wife's intelligence and social observations. beyond hearing that she is sometimes brutal etc, i've also been told by grown men that they are afraid of her. afraid!

now, i feel none of these emotions with her. shes a beautiful piece of cake with me. a bit of a pain in the ass sometimes, but nothing serious.

thoughts?

stevewrites2u2 said...

I think a woman should be non-threatening. Preferably not noticeably smarter than the man. However, definitely prefer smart people for marriage. If you want to have smart kids, this woman IQ is hard to ignore. One of my requirements for a wife was "ivy league type" brains. I think the major problem with smart, successful women is they think that this should be a huge asset with men and expect to be worshiped for their brainpower. An ivy league HBD7 30 year old girl just isn't in the same league with an ivy league 7 30 year old guy with decent career prospects, who can legitimately hunt HBD8s or 9s with some brains too.

Stickwick Stapers said...

... in our feminist era high IQ women tend to almost always come with a combative personality, which outweighs any advantage their high(ish) IQ would potentially have brought them.

I don't interact with enough women -- or a wide enough variety of them -- to make a statement on this, but I'm curious whether the correlation between intelligence and combativeness isn't just a corollary of an increasing trend of combativeness with women overall. My experience with this is, as I said, limited, but the women I interact with are mostly PhDs in STEM, and the ratio of obnoxious to easygoing is about 1:1. AFAICT, that seems to be true of the general population of women, as well.

Legion said...

"I had dared to dent his fragile male ego...."

I find "smart" women are selectively smart. Like this chick whose desire to display "one of the five languages" she speaks completely misses all sense of manners. Like a little schoolgirl who retorts "you're just jealous", she cites her partner’s ego as the root of the problem. She is "intelligent" for knowing 5 languages but seemingly oblivious all else.

Secondly, women who are indeed knowledgeable bestow upon themselves expertise in areas they are completely unfamiliar with. One example is an ex of mine with 2 English related Masters degrees touting the credibility of the Blood-type diet (oh brother), speculating public debt is but a mental phenomenon and insisting that all warfare everywhere is due to a quest for resources. When challenged (such as questioning the resource motive in the Vietnam War) her explanations become incredibly tenuous to the point of idiocy.

And finally many "intelligent" women I have met have an incessant NEED to display their knowledge. Their modus of choice is often through arguing, correcting or objecting. They oppose merely for the sake of asserting their knowledge.

They are unattractive because they do not know how to handle their knowledge; much like a lottery winner who cannot handle their newfound money. It ruins many a woman and is likely why she remains single.

Vox said...

i've been told by more than a few of them that they are intimidated by my wife's intelligence and social observations. beyond hearing that she is sometimes brutal etc, i've also been told by grown men that they are afraid of her. afraid!

They are telling you, in a very polite manner, that your wife is a bitch.

mina smith said...

Smart women have a highly developed sense of being strong and independent.

We all know how that ends up playing out.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

It sounds to me that post-post-modern intelligent women suffer from an inferiority complex due to their gender. Therefore, they have to flaunt their intelligence in any way they can because of their envy, an innate vice of all women.

When it's pointed out to them that no one like a know-it-all who can't keep their mouths shut, they reflexively respond in the predictable solipsistic manner which all women do.

In other words, despite their high intelligence, they are still women at heart. The problem is, they don't realize it as easily as the less intelligent women do.

River Cocytus said...

Also, I think there is a degree to which women are wired for being cherished and affirmed, but when you get into intellectual subjects you enter a realm of conflict. This is difficult for intelligent ladies because they still have a mutual desire for cherishing/affirmation, but find that a man or any sincere woman doesn't 'Yes man' them. It seems another way to deal with this is to flaunt your abilities and then expect to be cherished for being so talented, so skilled, so smart.

Probably, she was put on a pedestal as a girl; constantly praised for her abilities and achievements. Therefore, she instinctively shows off and is shocked when she is not cherished for her ability.

I once ran into a girl who was also a pianist; I was struggling with a Bach piece and she offhandedly said, "Oh, I did that piece in high school..."

I don't think she is married yet.

Adam Lawson said...

Men don't hate intelligent women. Men hate bitchy women

THIS. I have zero need for a bitch in my life. Why would I want to put up with a rude pain in the ass?

They are telling you, in a very polite manner, that your wife is a bitch.

Seconded. And I'll be honest. I'm not impressed with a man who has a bitch for a wife.

You can have a smart wife all day long as long as she controls the rudeness that a fawning feminist society has imbued her with.

Bobby Dupea said...

I knew a woman well who was smart enough to make her way (with no family money) from rural North Dakota to Harvard, McKinsey, Wall St., etc. Her IQ rivals that of the smartest two or three men I know.

As in the anecdote above, there are several behaviors that make her intolerable, and, I believe, have now destroyed her career as well as her personal life. She has had two marriages that each lasted less than six months. She's had half-a-dozen jobs since not making partner at McKinsey, and she has been unemployed for 18 months after losing a C-level position on Wall St.

The behaviors include an obsession with "winning" everything: precisely the behavior Vox mentions ("stop raising your hand already"): her entire life, right up through HBS and earning Baker Scholar status, she demanded to be first, last, and controlling of anything in-between. In school, the gurl-empowerment ethic rewarded this enormously. Everywhere else: not so much.

Second, anyone who doesn't honor her superior status must be destroyed. (This is what 50 year-old is really doing in her piece, above: she's justifying her failures as a woman by sneering at and smearing each of the men who "weren't good enough.") So unless the superior IQ female, who got all the straight A's in school, continues to get straight A's in work, she will destroy any competitor or disbeliever. That makes an executive, or a spouse, useless pretty quickly.

8to12 said...

Nobody likes a know-it-all, and it doesn't matter if the know-it-all is a male or female.

I learned growing up that dazzling people with my IQ produced a negative reaction, because its...RUDE.

I suspect nobody ever told this woman she was rude, because she was a woman and men are trained to be polite to women.

Starting a conversation and leaving your companion out is the height of rudeness.

-- Never marry a woman over 30 --

8to12 said...

@Adam Lawson said "I don't mind smart women. I mind women (and men) who think they are smart, but are actually really ignorant and presumptuous."

I always keep in mind the old saying: everyone's ignorant about something.

Jeremy said...

I think you've almost hit it. But I would tweak what is said here. I would say that there's enormous social pressure for smart girls to constantly PROVE they are smart. It's like gays and their pride parades. I have no problem with homosexuality, but I have a huge problem with homosexuals insisting that I stop my life and consider their bedroom activities. I don't give a shit what you do in the bedroom, and I don't give a shit how smart my woman is. What I will absolutely hate you for is insisting that I am always thinking about it, I will hate you for constantly trying to impose yourself on me.

JCclimber said...

The power of the neg comes into play here as well.

Neg them about their intelligence, and their self-esteem takes a body blow.

JCclimber said...

The writings of Solomon illustrate these concepts. They've been known for millenia.

Modern Churchianity: Satan's tool for destroying women, marriage, men and families.

Weouro said...

He shuffled from foot to foot, muttered something under his breath and rolled his eyes like a stroppy teenager. Then in the lift he turned on me. 'I was wondering when you were going to let me join your conversation,' he snapped. I tried to laugh it off but I knew this was the beginning of yet another argument

Translation:
"I'm disappointed at only being able to attract BETAs because I'm old and irritating."

newrebeluniv said...

Smart women have a highly developed sense of being strong and independent.

So do dumb women and average women. The dumb and average women also have an unearned sense of being smart.

--Hale

IrishFarmer said...

The problem with female intelligence is that women are raised to hate men (college educated especially). Coupled with, as Vox said, no one punching them in the face figuratively or literally for their rude behaviors and encouraging it....Well you have this woman.

But most importantly, women are raised/trained to hate men. This is why high IQ will never work, because any advantage a woman has over a man will, in all probability, lead her to be condescending and sh*tty towards that man. She can't help it.

And of course, nothing is this poor wilting flower's fault. Everything bad that happens in her life is the doing of someone else. The great irony of articles like these which portray women as poor, weak victims is that they imply that women are better off under the caring guidance and protection of men. Strange, that....

JCclimber said...

"And that's the thing. When it comes to love and marriage, I have watched with depressing regularity so many brilliant men choose beautiful but dull women."

Dull? I believe this woman is the one who is dull. The truth is staring her right in the face, she even spells it out in this article. Yet the truth slips past her like a greased eel.

She cannot comprehend that the smart men don't care about her frakkin brains. They care about the beauty of their companions. But even more than that, they care about the sweetness and femininity of their mates.

A lot of women cannot submit, even to an alpha. Therefore, this trait in combination with hypergamy condemns them to an unmarried future.

Stickwick Stapers said...

Starting a conversation and leaving your companion out is the height of rudeness.

Depends. My European husband is fluent in more than one language, while I'm English-only. Some of his friends are more comfortable speaking their native language, so he obliges them. Bothers me none. In fact, I find it appealing, in a DHV sort of way, when he does this. And I think this gets to the crux of the problem above. It sounds like this smart woman is making the classic mistake of thinking that what she would find appealing in a man (a display of social / intellectual superiority) is what a man would find appealing in her. When it doesn't work out that way, she blames the man and gets argumentative.

CarpeOro said...

I believe a point that a number are driving right on past that Vox brought up is the bit about smart women missing out on a vital bit of education early on: learning when to not be stupid about being smarter (if your really need this spelled out again, it wouldn't help you). As Vox mentioned, smarter men get that life experience early on generally which is when it counts the most (with the exception of people with too high an Aspergers quotient). Women instead get rewarded by the dis-functional education system - which it should be noted - spends more time with them than their parents. With the society continuing to fracture, women are less likely to get the attitude adjustment they need from their parents. They may get some of that from their peers in the blackboard jungle - even average and less girls get annoyed by the smart ones - but not enough to counter the authority figures there. As we all grow older, the natural inclination is to be less accommodating to people with this personality type. That is why they find it so hard to find a man their age...

Tin Man said...

"They have called me 'intimidating', 'scary', 'difficult' and 'opinionated'."

When I read that, I thought - Hey, I get that also - especially the intimidating part. But, on the other hand, I can turn it on and off, it's not always there - I use it situationally and filter for when it is needed. That may be another difference between men and women. A Man has the ability to use his intelligence as a tool for the purpose he wants to achieve - A woman uses at all times, for all occasions, as a way to re-enforce her position within the pack.

Men understand the nuances and uses of Attaboys and swift kicks, woman don't.

JDC said...

Smart girl gets a late lesson in her assumed intelligence I WAS THERE

Lemmen Kainen said...

My wife is around 2SD lower than me in IQ. WE have a great marriage. She's supportive and stays at home with the kids while I work. I come home to a home cooked meal every evening, clean laundry, clean house. She offers an opinion on family decisions but the final call is mine.

If I crave intellectual discourse she cannot provide I chat with a friend.

mickeypavic said...

The problem with female intelligence is that they consider it an attraction vector, so the smartest women want the most alpha males but a 6 is still a 6.

I know countless smart females that went to New York and London to find investment bankers because they thought their intelligence deserved one.

Black Poison Soul said...

The trouble is that their intelligence is used like a WMD tuned into the bitchy-entitled-snark wavelength. Then they wonder why they are pissing off all men within earshot.

Hamster, thy solipsism hath no disgust greater than any man who has been snarked at.

Girls, keep your bitchy-entitled-snark turned off or you will be prepping for cats.

8to12 said...

@mickeypavic said..."The problem with female intelligence is that they consider it an attraction vector..."

I seem to recall running across a blog that had analyzed a lot of women's online dating profiles and noted how common it was for women to lead off with their educational level.

I suspect it is as much to filter out men as it is to attract them. After all, if she has a master's degree, she can't be expected to marry an uneducated plumber (even though the plumber probably makes more than she does).

MycroftJones said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trust said...

It's how women tend to use intelligence is the problem. Rather than persuasion, innovation and seduction, it is often used to shame, denigrate, ex post factor rule change and goal post move, etc.

MycroftJones said...

Like the highly intelligent man, the highly intelligent woman has to learn how to utilize her intelligence in a judicious manner.

I feel like you left us with a cliffhanger. New installment next week?

Bob said...

"And finally many "intelligent" women I have met have an incessant NEED to display their knowledge. Their modus of choice is often through arguing, correcting or objecting. They oppose merely for the sake of asserting their knowledge."

Yep, I see this all the time too. I'm a Software Engineer and when playing a game once got chatting with a lass who it turned out, was also in the profession.

Soon as she found out this, rather than connect with me, no matter what direction I attempted to turn the conversation (including away from our profession) she CONSTANTLY was trying to prove she had more knowledge than me.

I could understand if I'd have tried to put her down or something but nope, she was going on and on about all the languages and technicalities she knew, how she was entering contests and demanding to know if I was too etc. She was completely incapable of talking about anything that wasn't an attempt at baiting me into an argument to try and give her the opportunity to prove she was better. Every single word was sneering and contesting.

This was a complete turn off (which raged her more heh). Amusingly before getting into any of that she was complaining of all guys being dumb meatheads etc.

Yes men like to go out and fight battles, win contests and compete, when NECESSARY or when they CHOOSE. Pretty sure most men DO NOT want to get home after that and then be battling with their partner too. What man wants to spend his time FIGHTING women instead of fucking them?

Also amusing is that when you do get tired of it and lay the smackdown with knowledge and facts, these "smart" women instantly revert to the same sort of immature behaviours that any other does. Therefore is it any wonder blokes don't bother with toxic lasses like that, no benefits, but extra drawbacks.

I don't mind a smart woman at all, it can make a change from the horde of dumb ones. However the lass must use her intellect to CONNECT with me and not CONTEST me at every opportunity, all I've met seem to be incapable of that. This is nothing to do with being "intimidated", it is simply tiring.

bee6cee8-1bb6-11e3-8a7e-000bcdcb471e said...

Vox,

But what kind of man does it make me that I don't care she's a bitch to them as long as she's not to me?

byteme said...

Vox, with the utmost respect, I suggest that you may not understand what it is like to be an intelligent girl. You speak of girls being rewarded, praised, for being smart. Oh good grief, no. It's a curse, I tell ya. Tell us we're as dumb as a box of rocks, it will cheer us right up.

River Cocytus said...

To be fair, if a woman is attractive, she likely will feel that people think she is vapid and stupid. I would venture a guess that this is the work of less attractive women, and certainly growing up with them being both physically attractive and intelligent would gradually make you feel like you have to prove that you're smart.

My wife, who is highly intelligent but not particularly invested in being 'smart', feels this way. And of course when she's forgetful or makes a stupid mistake she sometimes gets worked up about it, as though it confirms her fears of being vapid.

I have to remind her that the whole thing is slightly ironic; part of vapidity is not noticing or being concerned about your bland dullness.

I'm sure girls that enter male-dominated fields have to work harder and can fall into the trap of thinking they always need to prove themselves. You have to learn how to turn it on and off; there are some guys who can never turn off the internal competitor. Those guys are unfunny, tiresome a-holes.

Keoni Galt said...

Stop raising your hand every time you know the answer.

I think this is the genesis of this particular archetype of over-educated, credential wielding bitch mistaking her aggressive disagreeableness for intimidating intellect. Most "smart" women today attend college where they are given constant affirmation for wielding their intellect in a competitive manner when you consider the typical college classroom atmosphere involving debates and group work assignments.

Smart women are literally trained to be disagreeable (i.e. contemptuously competitive).

YOU GO GIRL!

Bob said...

"I'm sure girls that enter male-dominated fields have to work harder and can fall into the trap of thinking they always need to prove themselves."

Not really. I think the problem is inherent in their attitude. A lass who makes out "she's all that" will be expected to put up and compete (in the workplace).

If they simply proved themselves by providing RESULTS rather than pure rhetoric and manipulation or guilt / sympathy ploys ("waaa you don't understand what it's like"), I think a lot more would simply be accepted.

Fact is, a lot of women who worm themselves into things simply don't provide the results. Males are practical creatures.

And at home? There's no NEED to constantly try to bludgeon us into submission, a man simply doesn't want to come home and fight with a woman, so constantly trying to pick one is tiring and irritating, and makes one not want to spend any time around them.

Trust said...

I've heard women say "I don't know how to deal with my husband."

I say "yes you do, you knew exactly hoe to behave before he married you."

Bob said...

Also the "I'm right because I'm right" attitude (that smart girls also resort to) may work at home because a bloke can't be arsed anymore, but people won't let it slide in the workplace. You have to BE right at work.

Also as a lot of women are constantly proclaiming they're twice as good as any man, why is it so surprising when they're actually expected to do so. As others have said the "you go gurrrrrrl" shite may fly in the classroom, but at work where it actually matters to perform (or at home where it doesn't matter at all), it simply isn't enough.

JCclimber said...

Relationship with an insecure smart woman = endless stream of shit-tests.

No thanks.

Not intimidated, just aware that there are millions of other women out there, we'll try our luck with another (younger, cuter, tighter) model.

Beyond a certain minimum qualifier, your. smarts. do. not. matter. to. us. Ever.

Got it?

papabear said...

"But what kind of man does it make me that I don't care she's a bitch to them as long as she's not to me?"

A stupid one, if you consider how many men will back you (and by extension your family) up when the SHTF. The number might be 0, if your wife is bad enough.

AKFox said...

In short, a woman needs to be smart enough to know when to shut up. Let me know when that happens.

Whiskey said...

Disagree. Female intelligence means less cheating risk, higher future time horizon, smarter kids, though with higher risk of auto immune diseases. Still in an environment where smarts pay off, female intelligence is highly desirable fir lifetime, ie considerable post sexiness pairing.

However women overestimate intelligence, pursue dominant not smart men, confuse bossiness with intellgence.

Boyfriend was pursed bc she was flirting with clerk. Duh

cailcorishev said...

For a long time, I thought I was attracted to intelligent women. Then I figured out that whenever I was attracted to a woman, I convinced myself she was intelligent.

Whiskey, you should know the difference between attractive and desirable. Intelligence in a woman is desirable up to a point, but not necessarily attractive.

I believe a point that a number are driving right on past that Vox brought up is the bit about smart women missing out on a vital bit of education early on: learning when to not be stupid about being smarter

Yep, as he said, smart boys learn to pace themselves to match the crowd. I notice when someone's eyes start to glaze over because I've slipped into lecture mode, and I shut up for a while. If I'm sitting with my cousin who's never read a book in his life, I talk about fishing and use small words and we get along great. Those are just basic survival skills for smart boys, if they don't want to be hated by their peers (and even more so by their teachers).

This woman clearly never learned that, and by the time she got old enough to figure out that men would like her better if she dialed it back a bit, she was already too stubborn to give an inch. No, it's not her; it's the fragile egos of every man she's ever met.

cailcorishev said...

On the other hand, once a woman makes that floor IQ, more brainpower doesn't help as much as pretty, perky, and personable.

Thank you; "perky" is the word I was trying to think of. The girlfriends I remember the most fondly were perky, which (along with good looks) made their chatter far more interesting than it had any right to be. In hindsight, I realize they weren't particularly smart, but they were still fun to talk to. We're probably talking up to 50-point IQ gaps here, and I wasn't bored. Maybe I would have been after 50 years; I don't know. If they stayed physically and mentally perky, maybe not.

cailcorishev said...

It sounds like this smart woman is making the classic mistake of thinking that what she would find appealing in a man (a display of social / intellectual superiority) is what a man would find appealing in her.

Yes, if her boyfriend had been the dominant one in the relationship, he could have said, "Hey, babe, you know the lingo, so you go do the paperwork. I'm gonna go check out the bar." Then he wouldn't have been standing there watching her rudeness, and she would have been hurrying to get back to him to make sure he wasn't hitting on any Italian hotties.

But she found a man she could dominate so she could emasculate him and feel superior.

This is harsh, but what can a 50-year-old woman offer a "boyfriend"? She can't give him kids someday. She can't do anything sexually that he wouldn't find far more exciting with a 30-year-old. All she can offer is feminine companionship, and she thinks that would be beneath her. There's nothing left.

Adam Lawson said...

I always keep in mind the old saying: everyone's ignorant about something.

I wasn't begrudging anyone ignorance.

I was begrudging them being ignorant and presuming they weren't ignorant.

fc6cedc2-d6a8-11e2-b860-000bcdcb471e said...

1) Women that are too smart won't be able to relate to their children, which is necessary for the child's survival. Not exactly up there in traits if you are k-selecting

2) The problem with female intelligence is that they consider it an attraction vector,

Its kind of funny to listen to women talk about the attractive traits of their single friends, because they are shopping for a man. "She is smart, has a good job, witty...." followed by "I don't know why she can't find a man". Yet all these women instinctively realize what is important to men because they spend ~20% of their disposable income on product and apparel that makes them look their best.

3) Men don't need women for stimulating conversation, they can find men for that. Just like women don't need men for gossip, they have other women for that. Problem with smart women is they think they can fill the man's role, and men just don't need them to

4) Having a conversation for longer than 1-2 minutes in a foreign language without including a person you know who doesn't speak the language is just rude. If you don't believe so. I challenge you to set your timer to 3 minutes and stare at a wall.

tz said...

Over 60 comments! Well I will need to read them, but...

I would like nothing better than to have a holy mother that would turn my sons and daughters into doctors of the church, but failing that educating them to the edge of the sigmas our mutual genes and divine providence and mercy provide.

That said, Intelligence is a form of power, authority, so creates submission problems and paradoxes.

Were I to find a woman who was more intelligent and who desired to marry me, I would do so only if she would be obedient and submissive. This doesn't mean blind obedience, but that she uses every bit of her intelligence, brainpower, whatever within my direction (and realize my IQ isn't exactly small).

As I've said before, a brood of Valentines and Enders (I may have to force her to read Card or explain as needed). I think Vox can act as Yenta as needed. Else Nate or other of the Ilk. But I don't think women would do so even out of desperation. Or as I've also said, the alpha bitch who takes care of the den and cubs.

Intelligence need not be unattractive, but women seem to insist on making it so.

mmaier2112 said...

Vox said...
They are telling you, in a very polite manner, that your wife is a bitch.


I'll echo this, too.

Just because a guy shuts up and doesn't eviscerate you, doesn't mean he can't. It probably means he doesn't want to deal with the fallout of gutting a bitch in front of her husband and friends.

And everyone around already KNOWS she's a bitch... or worse.

I bite my tongue around my sisters-in-law for that very reason. I already refuse to let them bulldoze me like they do my brothers. But I think I'm at the end of my patience with dealing with them being bitches too.

haus frau said...

Intelligence=bitchiness in women sounds like a cultural feature in our society. Argumentativeness doesn't seem like a behavior that's integral to female intelligence. In a long lost time, perhaps the Victorian era, I imagine young ladies had a slightly more practical understanding of what men found attractive. Being demure and coquettish was fashionable. When was the last time our media portrayed a smart, witty woman as submissive to her husband and content with her family?

Doom said...

I wondered if you wouldn't do a post on the spoiled dish. Wow, but the whole article was simply annoying. I have poison ivy memories I enjoy more.

Besides, if you are 50 and never married, and actually tried to get out and mix it up? How... smart can you be to start? Seriously. At some point you, if you truly are a bright bulb, have to figure that 10 or 20 or 100 to one... that leaves you as the problem.

She should just gets cats and a dildo and a recorder for all her bright ideas she can listen to later, and really really dig. Bleh.

Asterisk said...

What about a wise woman, Vox? Like Wisdom personified in Proverbs 1:20-33? Or the Proverbs 31 woman? A wise person knows what do with their knowledge, whereas an intelligent person merely has lots of knowledge.

Oh who am I kidding? I've met loads of "intelligent women" who really can't submit to even alphas, but I have met no wise women in my life. I've only met wise men. I don't think even Solomon met a wise woman and was merely fantasizing (cough, Ecclesiates 7:28, cough)

Jack Amok said...

This is harsh, but what can a 50-year-old woman offer a "boyfriend"? She can't give him kids someday. She can't do anything sexually that he wouldn't find far more exciting with a 30-year-old. All she can offer is feminine companionship, and she thinks that would be beneath her. There's nothing left.

That hits the nail on the head. Hmmm, let's see. Boy-friend. Girl-friend. What's this friend thing all about? Could it possibly mean that she's supposed to be a friend to him? As in "be friendly"?

Weouro said...

When was the last time our media portrayed a smart, witty woman as submissive to her husband and content with her family?

I'm thinking it was in Casa Blanca or The Quiet Man.

bee6cee8-1bb6-11e3-8a7e-000bcdcb471e said...

mmaier2112, papabear, everyone:

Every woman (and every friend's wife) is bitchy. It's annoying. Tell them to relax or redirect the conversation. Problem solved.

I suppose I just don't give a shit at the end of the day.















Gabrielle said...

Unfortunately, there are studies that show that a high female IQ is positively correlated to female attractiveness. Also, you wouldn't want your children to be morons (ugly morons at that).

mmaier2112 said...

Bee: not true. I had a GF for a few years on and off who was very pleasant. She might have been ditzy and annoying, but I cannot think of any time she was an outright bitch.

Now whether that was because I refused to endure her attitude or she was just naturally nice... eh, I don't know and I don't care.

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