Tuesday, July 16, 2013

How to lower divorce rates

China leads the way:
Since August 13th, when China's Supreme People's Court reinterpreted the country's marriage law, many of the women leaving marriage registry offices like the one in Chaoyang have more than just the end of their marriages to bemoan. According to the new law, residential property is no longer to be regarded as jointly owned and divided equally in the event of a divorce. Instead, whoever paid for the apartment or house is the legal owner and gets to keep it in its entirety.

In China, the rulings of its most senior judges automatically replace existing law. For the male-dominated Supreme Court, which features just one woman amongst its 13 judges, the new ruling is a brutal attempt to shore up the crumbling institution of marriage by making divorce less attractive....

A major reason why the new law is regarded as unjust by most women is that in China men, or their parents, traditionally buy the family home. Indeed, many women will refuse to marry until that happens. It is such a custom that tying the knot with a man who doesn't own a property is known as a 'naked wedding'.
Notice that Chinese women want it both ways.  They won't marry a man if he doesn't buy a house, but they want to automatically claim a half-interest in it simply by marrying him.

When viewed from the socio-sexual perspective, the inevitable failure of democracy with universal suffrage appears obvious.

22 comments:

Remo said...

And people think I am crazy for wanting to live and work in China...

donalgraeme said...

Yet further proof that Dalrock is correct that the current Divorce culture in the West is enabled by, and encouraged by, the legal climate which provides perverse incentives to women to marry and then leave at their whim.

When viewed from the socio-sexual perspective, the inevitable failure of democracy with universal suffrage appears obvious.

Truth. All evidence and trends point towards Female Suffrage being utterly incompatible with free government.

fc6cedc2-d6a8-11e2-b860-000bcdcb471e said...

Well it is kind of an FU to a woman who gives a man her SMV and he tosses her at 38-40 for something 12 years younger. This approach isn't any more fair than what we do in the US, there is just a different victor.

Really fault based divorced where the person at fault takes the financial beating is the way to go.

Res Ipsa said...

I think its interesting that the former USSR and the Chinese are both instituting policies more compatible with traditional marriage in an effort to fortify their societies against the decline we are experiencing in the west.

Apparently traditional marriage works best for all concerned. It's almost like it was designed that way.

Remo said...

"Truth. All evidence and trends point towards Female Suffrage being utterly incompatible with free government."

China solves this problem by having nobody's vote count male or female. Unless you are a high ranking party member your voice is irrelevant. On the ground it works better than what we have in the West - at least now that a certain syphilitic mad man is no longer in power.

Crowhill said...

Suppose it's inevitable that marriage law will be unfair to men or to women. You have to choose one or the other.

I would love to hear an intelligent discussion on which is the better choice from the perspective of the governing authorities -- i.e., which is more stable.

matamoros said...

This made me think of the ruling in Russia, by a female judge, who denied a feminist claim of sexual harrassment, by saying that sexual harrassment is necessary for the propagation of the species.

"If we had no sexual harassment we would have no children"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/2470310/Sexual-harrassment-okay-as-it-ensures-humans-breed-Russian-judge-rules.html

Dexter said...

"When viewed from the socio-sexual perspective, the inevitable failure of democracy with universal suffrage appears obvious."

China is a democracy with universal suffrage?

jaybeespancakes said...

@Dexter

Perhaps it slipped over your head:

Vox thinks this is a good action, or at least an action aimed in the right direction, and he has highlighted how anti-democratic institutions and an anti-democratic government is able to do something moving to stop a great ill. Further, he points out that, given democracy, and how the Chinese women have reacted, they certainly would have opposed this and would have voted for the exact Western Marriage 2.0 formula - men provide everything, women get it all on frivorce.

Given that the mob killed Socrates and the mob called for Jesus's crucifixion, we should not be surprised that the mob calls for tearing down institutions that provide structure and stability to civilization...no matter how much the West fetishizes the mob as organizing principle of government.

tz said...

No carry-outs for the leftover women.

But the problem is still that they believe in equality, so there are lots of women in universities (that don't need to be there). B-ark degrees. But if women aren't going to need to be there to raise more than their one child, they have to do something.

Have the Chinese not heard of soap-operas?

tz said...

The Game angle is even more specific:

Many women believe the law will further encourage the already rampant mistress culture in China.

"We've received a lot of inquiries from women who are panicking," said Wang Xiuquan, a family law partner at the Beijing Chang'an Law Firm.

"They think the new law means their husband can take a mistress without anything happening to him, because if the wife threatens him with a divorce he will get to keep the house. Even women in good marriages are suspicious and calling us about the implications of the new law."


Men outnumber women, and eggs are dear, sperm is cheap?

Ah, but it is ONE CHILD PER WOMAN.

When the woman has her quota, they want to tie her tubes.

When the man has a child? Well...

eumaios said...

Women Ruin Everything: Linux for Workgroups Edition

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/linus-torvalds-defends-his-right-to-shame-linux-kernel-developers/

tz said...

@Dexter: China is a democracy with universal suffrage?

No, we and the EU are.

China, however has a way around it in that they kill enough girl babies (via abortion or "accidents" known as infanticide). India tends to do the same thing - amazing the number of ultrasounds that were being done.

So if the population is 5-10% more male, they can outvote the women, and the longstanding culture has prevented men from caving and voting as white-knights.

tz said...

Do read the Linux article linked. It includes "Greg is a Giant gamma".

If your leader isn't an alpha, your product won't make it out of beta. Remember parole is the same as release candidate.

I've been away from the linux kernel development core for a while, but my respect for Linux just went up 1000%.

Women try to ruin everything.

Torvalds: The same way I'm not going to start wearing ties, I'm *also* not going to buy into the fake politeness, the lying, the office politics and backstabbing, the passive aggressiveness, and the buzzwords. Because THAT is what "acting professionally" results in: people resort to all kinds of really nasty things because they are forced to act out their normal urges in unnatural ways.

I really need to get back into kernel development, at least once the SFWA freakshow ends.

tz said...

One further note on Linus, in one of the comments at Ars, someone pointed out the even greater eccentricities of Richard Stahlman, and they are probably worse.

You need people capable of ignoring the lines of the square - the first step of "thinking outside the box" is to realize the boundaries are entirely imaginary and artificial.

thehaproject said...

fc6cedc2-d6a8-11e2-b860-000bcdcb471e said...

Well it is kind of an FU to a woman who gives a man her SMV and he tosses her at 38-40 for something 12 years younger. This approach isn't any more fair than what we do in the US, there is just a different victor.


Because that happens so often, what less that 15% of the time? Most likely far, far less?

The reality is, in this country, he could buy the house, live with her for 20 years while she contributes not a single penny, then she bails on him and walks away with the house that he bought.

Doji Star said...

@ tz
"But the problem is still that they believe in equality, so there are lots of women in universities (that don't need to be there). B-ark degrees. But if women aren't going to need to be there to raise more than their one child, they have to do something.

Have the Chinese not heard of soap-operas?"

Chinese women NEED to be in universities and need to be working. In factories if not university caliber. Labor costs are already skyrocketing there. They have an awful dependency ratio crunch coming up due to too many one-child homes. They use grandparents and maids to rear children; grandparents are much more helpful for child-rearing when you have a kid young, and grandparents expect to be useful to their families in retirement and not just gamble and eat buffets on cruises until they drop.

Also, the traditional Chinese family structure is the guy gets tired of his ageing wife when she get in her 30s and gets a mistress/concubine (er nai, xiao mi, whatever) to scratch his itch. But not divorce. The really traditional family structure was just have a taitai and several lesser wives or concubines (plus cheap prostitutes for the unmarriageable coolie men) to satisfy everyone's needs for hypergamy and hypogamy.

I'm not going to blame the demographic crunch on the one child policy necessarily -- Thailand had a similar drop in birth rates over the same time period without government intervention. Asians actually care about their kid and spend money on their eduction so correctly identify them as financial liabilities as their economies develop.

Asterisk said...

thehaproject is correct about women ditching their husbands and keeping the house, but the reality is that she'd probably stay with the man for 5 years tops.

Regarding the mistress/concubine culture: Chinese women's fear of it is moot. Mistress/concubine culture has ALWAYS been for alphas. These are men who can afford it by having high status, power, resources. They are often high ranking officials/party members/military, rich people (who are often the same as the first group), and men with game. This would be less than 5% of the male population in China and probably the world.

Most of the Chinese men are delta going on gamma/omega, and can barely support themselves with their shitty jobs and high cost of living.

fc6cedc2-d6a8-11e2-b860-000bcdcb471e said...

Because that happens so often, what less that 15% of the time? Most likely far, far less?

That particular scenario probably doesn't happen all that often. But adultery, physical abuse, and addiction are generally considered valid reasons to divorce by the nonreligious and those happen a bit more often.

The reality is, in this country, he could buy the house, live with her for 20 years while she contributes not a single penny, then she bails on him and walks away with the house that he bought.

See this is where you are trying to have it both ways. You want the woman to contribute equally financially, but you still want her to be womanly.

Feminine women don't contribute to a relationship the same as men. Their labor is typically internal to the family structure such as housekeeping and child rearing. They also pay with their attractiveness. Which is to say that you are consuming their pleasantries during their good years.

In essence they are front loading their contributions to the relationship where as a man generally contributes steadily over 3-5 decades.

To draw an analogy. It would be like paying a contractor to replace your roof by providing him with 80% upfront and 20% when he completed. Half way through there is a dispute and he walks off having only done 40% of the work. You are entitled to recoup the 40% overpayment from the contractor. There is nothing wrong with that.

The problem is that we took it too far. By 1) inflating the value of women to insane levels making it impossible to pay off her "overpayment" even when she is at fault; 2) by giving her the right to unilaterally terminate the contract and take whatever absurd value available to her in #1.

xandohsa said...

Came out today that divorce rates in the US are skyrocketing for Americans above 50. What happens when you hit you fifties? You've paid off that 30-year mortgage you took on in you twenties, that's what!

xandohsa said...

Came out today that divorce rates in the US are skyrocketing for Americans above 50. What happens when you hit you fifties? You've paid off that 30-year mortgage you took on in you twenties, that's what!

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