Tuesday, June 4, 2013

A right to her own facts

Demolished, for varying degrees of demolished... and methodical. I know some people like Fox's Megyn Kelly, but I've always considered her to be overrated and little more than a high-functioning feminist.  She's the classic example of the credentialed midwit who has been told too many times that she's brilliant, as evidenced by her supposed "demolition" of Erick Erickson and Lou Dobbs concerning the bad news about female breadwinners:
Megyn Kelly methodically tore fellow Fox News pundits Erick Erickson and Lou Dobbs to shreds on Friday for their instantly infamous comments about women in the workplace.

Both men had a near meltdown about a study which showed that more women than ever were the sole or primary breadwinners in their households. They agreed that it signalled a terrible new trend for civilization itself. Erickson even brought the animal kingdom up, saying, "When you look at biology, look at the natural world, the roles of a male and a female in society, and other animals, the male typically is the dominant role."

When critics, including Fox News' own Greta Van Susteren, pounced, Erickson doubled down on his radio show and in a blog post on Red State.

Kelly was loaded for bear when Dobbs and Erickson joined her on her Friday show, and she let both men have it.....

"What makes you dominant and me submissive and who died and made you scientist-in-chief?" was her first question to Erickson. Try as he might, he failed to convince her.

When he said that many in the Pew study agreed with his discomfort about the role of women, she shot back, "Just because you have people who agree with you doesn't mean it's not offensive." Eventually, she let loose with a harsh monologue:

 "I didn't like what you wrote one bit. To me you sound like somebody who's judging and then wants to come out and say 'I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, and now let me judge judge judge, and by the way it's science it's science it's science it's fact fact fact fact. Well, I have a whole list of studies saying your science is wrong and your facts are wrong.'"
Kelly did what women usually do when forced to confront a reality they find distasteful: claim that she has a right to her own facts and her own reality. Kelly didn't have "a whole list of studies" to defend her position, she simply lied in the knowledge that no one was going to be permitted to call her on her false claim.  The idea that society cannot survive too many female breadwinners may be offensive, but neither societies nor individuals that find reality offensive tend to survive very long.

101 comments:

finndistan said...

Two choices everybody has, societies and people alike.

Accept reality, do in accordance with it;
Deny reality, and in best case it will slap you across the face, in worst case, you will cease to exist.

"I didn't like what you wrote one bit"

Assuming reality will bend to the princess's wishes.

Raylan said...

All this "you go gurrrrl" crap is funny, until she needs you to kill a spider. Then it's time to mock mercilessly.

TLM said...

She has a skank look about her.

MrGreenMan said...

It's funny how they keep overlooking these "breadwinner women" split 15-25 between wealthy, older white marrieds (which almost certainly is going to include the 'women-owned business' dodge) and, the larger, single mother households. Further, the "You go girl!" for the single mothers is truly a testament to the sisterhood: averaging $23k/year in household income, on every possible government benefit, using Big Daddy Sugar for everything except semen samples...that's a real accomplishment for women.

A female acquaintance of mine was complaining she wasn't going to have a good year and so couldn't afford a golf club membership. I told her - don't worry! feel good in your ovaries! Condi Rice was admitted to Augusta National! It's like you're a member there, too!

She didn't appreciate the advances women have made and the real benefit to her that two extremely wealthy, politically connected women had joined a prestigious club. Some women just hate themselves I guess.

tz said...

No one is likely to confront a naked man running about wielding a spatula having a conversation with "the voices in his head" about facts and reality either.

Not that studies and consensi like on global warming are authoratative.

I think it was on Dalrock, or another christian manosphere blog with an article "How do I 'validate' batshit crazy?".

But do we not remember the "Casey" decision? Which literally said that freedom is the right to define our reality? (I can't pull the exact quote right now, but yes, the essence is the right to our own facts and reality).

Herman the German said...

This.

Neanderthalensis, The Etruscans, The Celts....all eventually became egalitarian societies. Where are they now? - Yup.

Cail Corishev said...

I know nothing about the woman and didn't see the show, but reading the transcript, it sounds like a total freak-out, like she's getting angry so she won't cry. If this is what passes for "right-wing journalism," I don't think I'm missing anything.

LP 999/Eliza said...

Freak out is a fair term. It was unnecessary and very typical of the usual easily offended mommy tracked woman who doesn't understand what SAHM's do; they stay at home and enjoy raising their families.

Does anyone think that M needs a great deal of coaching and additional training for her speech/presentations? What national news is these days is not news or weather its just boring presentation after presentation, then again, at least these people are employed and are paying taxes.

En-sigma said...

I really cannot stand to watch ANY news program for long. Fox is no exception. And when a news program argues with itself about the news it is broadcasting, I really stop caring.

The world that was "the good ol' days" (if there ever was one of those) has ended. Oh, the planet will keep spinning right up to the moment it does not, so people will be buying and selling and living and making fools of themselves until they no longer can. But we will never return to reason - as women never will either.

As Vox so aptly stated - they ruin everything. They will never return to reason - if they were ever there in the first place.

Daniel said...

Never heard of this female breadwinner, but is it actually still considered news that a lady newsreader would view herself as important?

rycamor said...

Just once... I mean just ONCE, I want to see a man in the media respond to her kind of crap with:

"I don't care if it is offensive. The question is whether it is true. Can you in fact have it all?"

Notice, the minute the guy tried to soften the blow and backtrack a little, it just encouraged her.

Anonymous said...

Meh, I would have come at this from another angle. I would have insisted that since women are so capable of earning money, that all laws permitting alimony should now be stricken from the books. These feminist women are too proud of this sociological paradox they've created, it is nothing compared to the power of red pill logic.

Nate said...

Vox...

Methinks you're taking this to far. Who's winning the bread is irrelevant. After all... the whore is winning the bread for the pimp is she not?

Yet the whore doesn't control the pimp.

Look at lions. The males lay around all day while the bitches bring them food.

What's wrong with that?

Look at the Old Testament. The women ran the businesses and tended to this and that... and the men ran the church and the government.

This notion that the person who's getting the paycheck is in control is actually a false feminist assumption. The proof is in the simple observation of the lazy housewife that dominates the bread winning husband.

Women earning the money isn't the problem.

The problem is women being the head of the family.

I will allow of course that it is easier for a man to be the head of the family when he is in control of the checkbook. And it is easier to be in control of the checkbook when you are the sole breadwinner. However... the checkbook is not the One Ring of Power.

rycamor said...

Yes Nate, but the real problem the guy was addressing was when both the husband and the wife work long hours, leaving the kids essentially parentless. This is what women find offensive: that something must be sacrificed somewhere. Of course they automatically assume that the evil oppressive man wants her to make the sacrifice, which is ironic, considering that for most men, the hard work of supporting a family IS a sacrifice.

rycamor said...

I should say, "this is what the prototypical career woman finds offensive."

Will Best said...

Anytime somebody references sources, I always ask for them. I almost never get them. I nearly always provide sources, going so far as to e-mailing people them a week later for a conversation I had while I was out of town.

--

You shouldn't be entitled to use the word breadwinner unless you pull down at least 60% of the family income. And if the government is providing any transfer benefits to your family then it should be tagged with government supported or ward of the state depending on how large the transfer payments are.

Nate said...

"Yes Nate, but the real problem the guy was addressing was when both the husband and the wife work long hours, leaving the kids essentially parentless. "

its just straight up emotional investment. Chicks already feel guilty about leaving their kids in daycare. (yes I know they claim otherwise. Its bullshit. They do.) but they cover it up with bravado. Rather than admitting that they would much rather be at home... they double down and try to convince themselves that they are really doing the best thing for their kids by ditching them with strangers and trotting off to "work".

rycamor said...

True. Emotional investment and guilt is a huge factor. No woman wants to be seen as sacrificing their children's well-being in any way, but especially if it is their child's emotional well-being. So they rationalize. Because of course most women don't like the idea of a husband who stays home and earns less than them, which is the only other defensible choice. This is the nature of the trade-offs and sacrifices available, and it is unpleasant for them to dwell on it in any way. So they would rather just search and discover some random article in a magazine that references some purported "research" that takes them off the hook. Yay for feel-goods.

VD said...

The males lay around all day while the bitches bring them food. What's wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing, if you simply want to live out in the veldt, without shelter, plumbing, or video games. It's the African model.

Nate said...

"Absolutely nothing, if you simply want to live out in the veldt, without shelter, plumbing, or video games. It's the African model."

freaking workaholic vikings.

move to the equator. you can feed yourself literally by picking food off of the trees... brought to you by women. You can lounge in a hammock all day... made by a woman...

but no...

you prefer to sit in cubicals all day and unduly document things.

Perhaps the savages have the better of it.

If we keep on like this... we'll eventually be to fat and useless to file government form 145-B-2089vc-12 and ooze back into the ocean.

Nate said...

I would point out though that I'm not sure its accurate to call it the "african" model. But my opinion is only informed by the testimonial evidence of a professor that spend three years in Ghana learning african drumming. He went there a typical american male and came back with a totally different idea of feminism.

He said african tribes were in fact the feminist ideal. the women ran everything and the women did all the work and the men were basically useless.

Even the figure head male leader was dominated by some bitch wife that made all the decisions for him.

rycamor said...

Have to admit, I sometimes wonder about that myself, Nate.

If we keep on like this... we'll eventually be to fat and useless to file government form 145-B-2089vc-12 and ooze back into the ocean.

Central Services, sir... You rang, sir?.

Lemmenkainen said...

I love how she has no concept of viewing anyone's life experience outside her own. "My husband and I both work and we have a nanny and it works out smashingly, so you're wrong you hater man! Every woman can do what I do!"

Josh said...

Perhaps the savages have the better of it.

Has Nate gone full Rousseau?

Loki of Asgard said...

Has Nate gone full Rousseau?

No, I am sure he will whip his mighty hamster into a gallop to defend his continuing use of firearms and the Internet, and profiting from modern medicine.

However, I might be wrong, and he will come out fully in favour of grass huts, famines, and pandemic venereal diseases.

Mr. Nightstick said...

The males lay around all day while the bitches bring them food. What's wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing, if you simply want to live out in the veldt, without shelter, plumbing, or video games. It's the African model.

Bazinga!

Stickwick said...

It was evident Kelly was a feminist when she didn't arrange to mother her own children after she had her first baby.

"Just because you have people who agree with you doesn't mean it's not offensive."

This is why most women will never be taken seriously by serious people.

I agree with rycamor. It would be greatly satisfying if men (and women) started standing up to the tyranny of the offended. Who cares if it's personally offensive to someone? All that matters is whether it's demonstrably true or false. These people will back down if you push, because they're not prepared for anyone to break through the initial "I'm offended" line of defense. By way of example, I got into it about gun control with the friend of a friend after the Newtown shooting, and when I brought up the disparate murder-by-gun statistics for whites and blacks, he got agitated and warned me not to go there, because it was "insensitive." I went there. He backed down, and by the end was more or less agreeing with me. People on the right have got to start breaking the taboos on giving offense and judgement.

Nate said...

look.. there is a beachbum pirate side of me that is sympathetic to the whole... nuke it all option.

Why am I to conclude that the eurotrash had the right of it?

Indians laid around all day smoking dope and eating fresh bison and fucking whatever needed fucking. Their women were hotter than ours are now because they were damned working instead of sitting on couches.

I'm sympathetic to savagery.

Nate said...

The fact is I deeply regret agriculture. It has to be the worst mistake in all of human history. Before agriculture were wandered around killing whatever we needed to eat... gathering what food was around... and generally had happy carefree lives.

Then fucking agriculture comes along... and we're getting up at the crack of dawn.. remonstrating with mules...

Would you rather stare a mule's ass all day or watch the women folk bend over and pick berries?

I'm just asking.

Carlotta said...

We have reached a definitive point.

My Mother's generation indeed could "have it all". They were raised for the most part by two-parent nuclear families with the Mother highly involved in raising the children if not staying home with them. They benefitted from society still holding to some form of traditional values. They could hide their crude behavior from potential marriage partners and still get married. As men were still for marriage. They could have children and a career because their own Mothers often stepped in for them.

However, the children of this spoiled group are now facing ravages their Mother's never knew and their GrandMother's never dreamed of. There is no Mother at home for them. No Grandmother coming in to save the day with the children. Men are opting out of marriage and too many are waking up at 35 and realizing the sex and the city was just bad tv and not a way to live your life. A life that could last for decades more with you alone alone ALONE.

Kelly is of that generation. She doesn't want to open her eyes and see what her destructive and spoiled existence has spawned. She still wants to think she shattered glass ceilings and is special.

When she simple at her seed corn and famine has come hard upon us.

Carlotta said...

@ Rycamor, Voddie Bachman gave the nicest butt whupping to her when he was on fox (I think it was her) regarding submission in marriage. I cheered, I did. I am so sick and tired of seeing men back down to women who start stuff.

Dr Laura is the only other person I saw do something like this. She was interviewed on marriage and stay at home Mothering by an anchor on fox with small children. She looked right at her and said "It is called making choices." It was awesome !

Remember that next time men, every single women in the room is holding her breath going "Is he going to FINALLY handle this or what!" Including the one starting trouble.

tilikum said...

nate,

r selected cultures are almost always matriarchal as the focus is on quantity of children, in which case the health of the female is of prime concern.

K vs. r is really the true nature of our gender struggles

Carlotta said...

That should be "ate" her seed corn.

BTW, I had the opportunity to witness to a newlywed who was going through a tough time with her marriage this weekend. The advice she had been receiving was feminist in nature and to basically divorce him.

I prayed with her, broke down submission in marriage and staying together no matter what and prayed with her that they would bring God into her marriage. She cried and thanked me. It was such a blessing that God could use me of all people to do that! He has saved me from so much!

Her feminist Mother was not happy.

If any of you pray, would you pray for her? And pray for me. I had the opportunity to witness to several others that day. Simply being a Christian, Married, Mother is bringing a lot of attention my way. I am an oddity. Young ladies are seeking me out and I am reading here and elsewhere to make sure I do not fall back into deception as it would be foolish and a bad witness.

Humbly, thank you.

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Carlotta said...

@ Nate, ok that works for you. But will will all the other men do?

Nate said...

Guys... K vs. r is great for illustrating various differences and points... but its not science anymore.

mjb said...

Nate, you retired in 2003, right?

Meanwhile, the rest of us are stuck in this stupid rat race. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing a reset on modern society. Escape From LA, just erase the electricity.

Nate said...

'@ Nate, ok that works for you. But will will all the other men do?"

Actually.. I don't advocate my lifestyle for others.

I just take issue with the claim that the person who makes the money controls the relationship. It isn't true and never has been true.

I don't site my own example... but rather the example of literally countless henpecked men throughout time.

The notion itself is a feminist lie... routed in the feminist assumption that working gave men power and happiness.

Its really in the interest of consistency that I object.

I simply have a hard time watching Red Pill Game authors regurgitating feminist lies.


Nate said...

"Meanwhile, the rest of us are stuck in this stupid rat race. "

Why am I not stuck.. but you are?

riadee said...

Carlotta, I saw this Megyn Kelly interview live and I was offended by MK. Just because she's pregnant and doesn't want to stay home with her babies doesn't make those of us who do (stay home) wrong in our assessment that babies don't belong in day care but belong at home with their own mothers! And as another Christian, Married, Mother of four, I prayed for you as requested and ask that you pray for me and my husband who is deployed and for our rocky marriage. I feel PTSD may be an issue here and I don't want to give up on him or us because it is so very hard to endure at times. I want to thank God and ask Him to bless the truth of this website and to please bring us more men who are strong enough to get us out of this feminist nightmare.

Daniel said...

Then fucking agriculture comes along... and we're getting up at the crack of dawn.. remonstrating with mules...

Would you rather stare a mule's ass all day or watch the women folk bend over and pick berries?


Genesis, Chapter 4, NEV (Nate's Elliptical Version)

Loki of Asgard said...

The fact is I deeply regret agriculture. It has to be the worst mistake in all of human history.

I suggest you take that up with your God.

Nate said...

"I suggest you take that up with your God."

Actually I should be taking it up with Adam. It was his dumbass what made it necessary.

Loki of Asgard said...

Indians laid around all day smoking dope and eating fresh bison and fucking whatever needed fucking. Their women were hotter than ours are now because they were damned working instead of sitting on couches.

And then, one day, "workaholics" who had learnt to smelt steel and make firearms came along, took their "dope" and bison and land, and put them in little boxes on reservations.

Such is history.

Nate said...

"And then, one day, "workaholics" who had learnt to smelt steel and make firearms came along, took their "dope" and bison and land, and put them in little boxes on reservations."

Shocking that you of all folks would favor the might makes right option.

Such is indeed history.

Josh said...

And then, one day, "workaholics" who had learnt to smelt steel and make firearms came along, took their "dope" and bison and land, and put them in little boxes on reservations.

Guns, germs, and steel ftw

Nate said...

***sigh***

if only Adam could've passed a shit test...

Nate said...

Win?

All those guns, germs, and steel got you was bureaucracy and monstanto.

Brilliant work.

Loki of Asgard said...

Actually I should be taking it up with Adam. It was his dumbass what made it necessary.

Necessary? Your God might have struck him dead had He so chosen. There was no necessity in granting Man the arts of agriculture.

Loki of Asgard said...

Win?

All those guns, germs, and steel got you was bureaucracy and monstanto.

Brilliant work.


And all that dope and bison beef and berry-gathering got you was to be put in a box on a reservation.

Brilliant not-working.

Shocking that you of all folks would favor the might makes right option.

No, bright makes might, Nate. History has proven that repeatedly--and let us be frank: your Stone-Age human relics are distinctly lacking in brightness.

Nate said...

"No, bright makes might, Nate. History has proven that repeatedly--and let us be frank: your Stone-Age human relics are distinctly lacking in brightness."

Sayeth the bloated bureacrat cube dweller than will soon be oozing back to the ocean.

Or actually.. more to the point...

Who will be conquered by the savages.

Nate said...

Say what you want about savages mate...

They at least have sense enough to reproduce.

Josh said...

All those guns, germs, and steel got you was bureaucracy and monstanto.

And western civilization. Which had a pretty good run.

Nate said...

"And western civilization. Which had a pretty good run."

Had.

The savages could point to 3000 years of history and say, "Western Civilization? Bitch please."

Loki of Asgard said...

Sayeth the bloated bureacrat cube dweller than will soon be oozing back to the ocean.

Or actually.. more to the point...

Who will be conquered by the savages.


You forget: I am the conquering savage. That I happen to be more educated, intelligent, and technologically advanced than you does not mean I am not a savage.

a good ROI said...

@ Carlotta, praying for your young friend and her husband and for you. Thank you for doing the good work you have done. Keep it up! :)

Loki of Asgard said...

Alas, I must away to be a "workaholic"--drawing the villagers into greater solidarity, establishing my local dominance, building my manor house and lands...laying the foundation for the next great civilisation, that sort of thing.

I shall leave Nate, for now, to enjoy his right to his own facts.

Wendy said...

The males lay around all day while the bitches bring them food. What's wrong with that?

They help with bigger prey, and must defend the lionesses and their cubs from males out to overthrow them (and stompy water buffalo). It is actually a tough life with short life expectancy.

Wendy said...

If any of you pray, would you pray for her? And pray for me.

Absolutely. Keep fighting the good fight.

Cat;rina W said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trust said...

It is also common for women to dismiss duties as "nothing," "easy," "fun," or just "what he is supposed to do," and not give him much if any credit for all the time, work, sweat, and risk he endures. But those same tasks are considered of cosmic proportions when they have to be performed by these same women.

Nate said...

"You forget: I am the conquering savage. That I happen to be more educated, intelligent, and technologically advanced than you does not mean I am not a savage."

Bring what ya want son.

Remember... I said I was talking about a part of me. Not the whole.

Nate said...

"
They help with bigger prey, and must defend the lionesses and their cubs from males out to overthrow them (and stompy water buffalo). It is actually a tough life with short life expectancy."

Agreed. its a short life... but a largely happy one... and without question a free one.

. said...

Bored as I am with Loki's shtick... oh my that was some excellent ownage!

Daniel said...

The fact is I deeply regret agriculture. It has to be the worst mistake in all of human history.

I suggest you take that up with your God.


It was Cain who started a ton of trouble with agriculture. Abel did shepherding and hunting. I'm not entirely convinced God finds ag and civilization to be an inherent good. I'm confident He finds animals and tending them to be one, though. So, whether it was ag in general, or Cain's version of it, all I know is that there isn't much to take up with God on it.

Wait a minute, weren't we talking about some lady not knowing what she was talking about?

Wendy said...

Agreed. its a short life... but a largely happy one... and without question a free one.

That's reminiscent of Tolkien's description of the Rohirrim anticipation for battle.

Wendy said...

Wait a minute, weren't we talking about some lady not knowing what she was talking about?

You can only talk a women who completely relied on rhetoric and volume for so long...

Josh said...

A point infavor of at least a small bit of planting grains: grains are an essential ingredient for producing beer and whisky.

Steve said...

"Both men had a near meltdown..."

I don't think so.

To me,this sounds like a "meltdown":
To me you sound like somebody who's judging and then wants to come out and say 'I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, and now let me judge judge judge, and by the way it's science it's science it's science it's fact fact fact fact. Well, I have a whole list of studies saying your science is wrong and your facts are wrong.'

Actually,it sounds like a little baby having a temper tantrum.

JCclimber said...

I agree with Steve. If only either of the men just sat there with a smirk on their faces, and then said "Are you finished?" when she paused in her little on air temper tantrum, they would have totally won the debate and every non-lesbian in the viewing audience.

Once again, civilization has been abandoned by men with empty scrotums.

Carlotta said...

Thank you Wendy and a good Roi. I am surrounded by feminists who openly practice witchcraft. It isnt always fun... but I have been forged for this and I am so grateful.

@riadee thank you and you are in our prayers from here on in. Dont waver. Stand your post. Pray without ceasing and cling to God. If a stranger broke in and attacked your Husband and your Husband was cussing and fighting you wouldnt walk out on him, right? He is being attacked. You may be the only person on earth praying for him. Get those Blessings and have them sit on your bed and pray with them for Daddy, your Family and your Marriage. Teach them a Bible verse every week to pray. As a Wife who prayed for a decade for her Husband to come to Christ I know God uses all things for His Glory. And your Husband needs a Wife who helps beat the crap out of the enemy attacking with him and not leaving him behind. The enemy needs to take him out of the way so he can get at you and the Blessings. I grew up with a Father with PTSD. It wasnt fun. But it was worth it. The good he gave me was so worth it. Gods grace was enough and helps me even now as I still mourn over his suicide.

Dont leave you post. God will be with you. If you ever need to pray you can email me at thehomeschoolhomemaker@hotmail.com

God Bless and keep you Sister. He will.

Carlotta said...

@ Nate I understand you point because it is true. Thats why women going to work and making their own money was suspossed to equalize things. I understand your concept.

@ Loki your stuff just gets better and better. Love the erotica you are writing on your blog now too.

Survival Gardener, AKA David the Good said...

It's not agriculture as such, it's the method.

We were first placed in a forest garden and told to tend it. Then we screwed up and ended up in the wilderness. Instead of thinking long term and planting a new forest garden, man "began to till the soil." Instant gratification.

I can grow corn right now and eat in a few months - why plant pecans? They take a long-term investment in land and a forward-thinking mind.

J. Russel Smith covered this in his book "Tree Crops." That was almost 100 years ago. He recommended getting away from the tilling and erosion of annual agriculture and instead breeding trees for high production and little care. Was he listened to? Not really. Most of the test plots he developed at colleges were razed and later used to breed better grains.

If his long-term approach had been followed, we'd barely have to work at our agriculture anymore. We'd be eating cheetos made from acorn flour thanks to improved varieties of tannin-free oaks. It takes time and thoughtfulness... something most lack. But once a forest of edible perennial crops is in place, it can become a self-sustaining food factory. Then both men and women can be free to tend in a few hours here and there, rather than slave away at fast-producing crops that need tons of input.

Brad Andrews said...

Carlotta, I wish you could talk with my dauther in law. She is blowing up her marriage with the help of her mother who blew up 2 of her own (including lying about abuse charges against my dil's father).

My son was far from what he should have been and now the chickens are coming home to roost, but it is a horrible thing to watch, especially from those who claim to follow Christ.

moe jones said...

In the defense of the manjaw, it is not remotely easy admitting that you have been lied to your whole life. She's defending herself in the best way she knows how, by being a cunt and by acting offended by the facts that she does not want to believe. We're all programmed to like ourselves and trust our experience, and society has programmed us all believe many different lies, particularly about gender relations. On a surface level, most people have a reason to believe that this whole feminism thing is working out pretty well. In reality, as we all know, it is not. I want to see more of these studies thrown in the face of the MSM.

Daniel said...

Survival Gardener, that's a very cool notion. Maybe if you could get the tree to grow cheetos...

Do you know of any other groves like that that are still in place?

Carlotta said...

@Brad I can and will pray for her. Take heart, close familt worked for ten years to destroy our marriage. It drove us to God. They are being attacked. The enemy hates marriage. Try to pray that God will help you see that. It helps me now. I will pray for them to have this draw them to the Lord.


Brad PRAY! Read the Bible and pray for your children and the future generations. Jump into this fight spiritually. They need you!

Carlotta said...

Autocorrect is horrible. Close FAMILY.

rycamor said...

Survival Gardener, AKA David the Good said...

It's not agriculture as such, it's the method.


It's interesting that this one discussion has strayed deep into the territory of Life, the Universe, and Everything. It all ties together: male-female relations, civilization, savagery, agriculture, bureaucracy... I mean, what is Monsanto but bureaucracy+agriculture?

God gave us intelligence and the imagination to see how things could be different around us. I don't think the only choices were bureaucracy and savagery. That is just a product of our fearfulness and failure to really indulge our God-given imaginations.

I note that Genesis mentions agriculture as part of the curse, but not gardening. There is a difference. Agriculture is wide-scale regimenting of land in a way that contravenes nature and provides a sense of security (more of a sense than a reality, IMHO). Why did we feel the need for security? We fled from God, then felt that in His absence we needed more control over our environment. We constantly grasp for control, and always eventually overextend ourselves and have to deal with disastrous consequences. This time's gonna be a doozy.

And so much of it is because we allow women to goad us into working our butts off, and constantly chasing our tails in hopes of making them secure from all discomfort, in return for... what?

Loki of Asgard said...

It was Cain who started a ton of trouble with agriculture.

What an interesting interpretation, considering that said Scripture--and oh yes, I know your Scripture--points out that Abel brought the best of his flocks, whereas gives no such description of Cain's sacrifice.

But of course, you know better than whoever scribbled down Leviticus, that grain is unclean and an unworthy offering.

I do believe we were talking about someone making a number of unwarranted assumptions.

Loki of Asgard said...

Remember... I said I was talking about a part of me.

Even had you not, I noticed you are usually trying to draw attention to a part of you.

Survival Gardener, AKA David the Good said...

@Daniel

Yes, there are some spaces in existence (and a few people are working to build more):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5ZgzwoQ-ao

Survival Gardener, AKA David the Good said...

FYI: I am Vidad - this is my other acct.

earl said...

"Kelly did what women usually do when forced to confront a reality they find distasteful: claim that she has a right to her own facts and her own reality."

Or as Bill Burr said..."they go rogue."

And also he said when they do this...you won the fight and stay in control of yourself.

Daniel said...

I knew Vidad the general nut is also DtG the gardening nut. Your type don't grow on trees, after all.

Daniel said...

Meant to say thanks for that video. I'm casually interested in figuring out if it could be done in Iowa, and wondering how much acreage that would entail and how soon and long it would be sustainable, what with winters and such.

Nate said...

"Even had you not, I noticed you are usually trying to draw attention to a part of you."

Don't be propositioning me son... I only have two legs. I'm obviously not your type.

Loki of Asgard said...

I'm obviously not your type.

Yes, I generally prefer wit in my choice of mates. You only half-qualify in that regard. Terribly sorry, ducky.

Survival Gardener, AKA David the Good said...

@Daniel

Drop me a note off the survival gardening blog so I don't de-rail things here - I can help you figure that out.

bobert said...

Hey Nate and Loki

It's been fun watching you two go at it...maybe Rycamor and Vidad have the solution?

We don't need a false dichotomy between savagery with absolutely no work for men on one hand and the hyper-complex bureaucracy and extreme overwork of our modern culture. Maybe there is a happy medium - one that gives us the societal infrastructure that we need to grow, thrive, and debate on the internet, but also doesn't overwork us to the bone, leaving most of us too damn tired to enjoy most of it.

I agree that savagery is hardly an appealing alternative, but it today's society, it seems that we have gained the whole world (a complex, bureaucratic one) but lost our souls in the process to overwork - we spend more time in the office than with those we love.

And for what? To give wealth to bankers and CEOs - so they can buy a 50th yacht.

That is just as much a problem as those plaguing and underworked 'savage' society.

Maybe even more.

bobert said...

An interesting perspective on this whole issue...

rycamor said...

Yes Bobert, and I think Nate is in on that vision. In fact, Vidad, Nate, and I are each survival gardeners to some degree or other (Vidad being the extreme case). It's idiotic to to say it's a tragedy that we are capable of creating things or molding our environments and that this is ALL WOMAN'S FAULT (or Adam's for caving in to women). But where did the perceived need for an overcomplex, workaholic society come from?

What self-respecting man would ever have wanted such a thing as the IRS to exist? Do you think Davy Crockett sighed with hope during his explorations as he envisioned the Bureau of Land Management? Did Daniel Boone lift his eyes to the Appalachians and wistfully imagine a day when you couldn't shoot a deer except at certain times, and only with a $1000 license, obtained through circuitous bureaucracy and huffy government desk-dwellers?

We have tried to solve feminine fears by turning our society into a giant machine. And, predictably, it has failed to make women any happier. And mankind repeatedly overextends and then there is hell to pay. The next one's going to be a doozy.

bobert said...

@rycamor

We have tried to solve feminine fears by turning our society into a giant machine. And, predictably, it has failed to make women any happier

Combing this with your previous comment

God gave us intelligence and the imagination to see how things could be different around us. I don't think the only choices were bureaucracy and savagery. That is just a product of our fearfulness and failure to really indulge our God-given imaginations.

I note that Genesis mentions agriculture as part of the curse, but not gardening. There is a difference. Agriculture is wide-scale regimenting of land in a way that contravenes nature and provides a sense of security (more of a sense than a reality, IMHO). Why did we feel the need for security? We fled from God, then felt that in His absence we needed more control over our environment. We constantly grasp for control, and always eventually overextend ourselves and have to deal with disastrous consequences. This time's gonna be a doozy.

And so much of it is because we allow women to goad us into working our butts off, and constantly chasing our tails in hopes of making them secure from all discomfort, in return for... what?


It basically seems as though humanity listened to the serpent twice over...we keep pursuing what we thing we want instead of what we truly need...and we pay for it dearly.

And mankind repeatedly overextends and then there is hell to pay. The next one's going to be a doozy.

You said that twice...and it is *very* much true.

bobert said...

we thing we want

oops...meant to type 'what we think we want'

Loki of Asgard said...

I am almost as amused by this assumption that I think any of you merits better than a grass hut and a hand-to-mouth life as I am by Nate's threatening not to have sex with me.

Carlotta said...

Rycamor those were great comments.

Bobert. Very true. Funny how God mandatedca Sabbath every week and several weeks of feasting and vacation...years of jubilee. .and we said no thanks.

bobert said...

Bobert. Very true. Funny how God mandatedca Sabbath every week and several weeks of feasting and vacation...years of jubilee. .and we said no thanks.

How true. As a historical note, in previous eras, when the Church had far more influence over society than we do now, people actually worked less than they do today, although we are far more productive due to technology.

what I think happened is that we started with the protestant work ethic, which held work as a way to glorify God, and as society secularized, the elites saw a way to secularize the PWE towards glorifying *their god* (i.e. themselves and their insatiable lust for wealth) instead.

So now we work longer and harder than ever, losing our souls in a vain attempt to gain the world (and ironically only end up giving the world to our elite overlords).

In our society, granite countertops, bigger houses, and ever increasing corporate profits >>>>>>> Faith, Family, and Friends - the stuff life is *actually* all about.

We are poor in what counts and rich in what doesn't. Where does this end and how can I get off this ride?

BTW will pray for you and those to whom you are witnessing. Keep up the good work!

Anon123 said...

And this woman is supposed to be a shining example of conservative women, and yet here shes spouting feminist talking points. That women should be admired for prioritizing careerism over child-rearing, and even childbearing if your talking with leftists. Ive come to the sobering conclusion that Western civilization will be lost, not because of invasions or disasters as its so oftenly purported, but simply the same tragedy that befell so many ancient civilizations: oliganthropia-demographic decline.

Carlotta said...

Bobert thank you for the prayers. I agree we are chasing the wrong thing and ignoring the Holy One who gives rest.

John said...

There's been about a hundred comments and no mention of solipsism?

Megyn Kelly's reaction is a textbook example of women being solipsistic. She herself is a working mother and, from what I know about her, takes pride in being one. When the other pundits talked about how having a lot of working mothers is bad, Megyn's solipsistic mind interpreted it as a criticism against HER and HER life choices. That's why she's getting so upset, because she's perceiving the criticisms of what having a lot of working mothers does to society as a criticism of HER PERSONALLY, and that somehow SHE'S a problem in society. That's why she rants about the other pundits "judging" working mothers, because she thinks they are really judging HER.

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