Saturday, April 20, 2013

The evolution of Game

Rollo has an excellent post on the intellectual development and broadening spectrum of Game, as well as some thoughts on its continued evolution:
For all its marginal efforts to shame Game back into obscurity, the feminine imperative found that the Game movement wasn’t being cowed as easily as it might have been in the mid 1990′s. The Imperative was falling back on the reliable tropes and social conventions that had always pushed the masculine back into compliance. At the apex of fem-centrism in the 90′s these social constructs worked well on an isolated, shamed and ignorant masculine imperative, but with the evolution of the internet, by the late 2000′s Game was snowballing into a threat that required new feminine operative conventions.

Game evolved beyond the behavioral sets, and beyond the psychological and sociological mechanics that underlined women’s psyches and larger socializations. While still encompassing all that prior evolution, Game was becoming aware of the larger social meta-scale of the feminine imperative. Game began to move beyond the questions of why women are the way they are, and into piecing together how the intergender acculturations we experience today are what they are. Game asked how did we come to this?

Game branched into specific areas of interest in its scope to answer these broader questions and solve more expansive problems. While we still have all of the prior iterations of Game, we have expanded into christianized Game, married Game, divorced Game, socialized Game, high school Game, etc.

However, underpinning all of these areas of specialization was still the need to internalize and personalize Game in a Man’s life. Game was the path to male re-empowerment; an empowerment that even women today still feel men should Man-back-Up to. Game required a reinterpretation of masculinity towards something positive, beneficial and competent – something entirely apart from the negative, shameful and ridiculous archetypes 60 years of feminization had convinced women and men of. Call it Alpha, call it Positive Masculinity, but Game necessitates the reimagining of the importance of the masculine imperative. Game needs Men to change their minds about themselves.

Needless to say, even in its most positive of contexts, the male re-empowerment that Game led to was a Threat too great for the feminine imperative to allow. Controlling the intrinsic insecurities that the feminine imperative is founded upon has alway depended on men’s ignorance of their true value, and true necessity to women. Men have to remain necessitous to women in order for their insecurity to be insured against, and the feminine imperatives control to be insured of.
This is a very good post because it helps to understand where one has been if one is to figure out where one is going.  This blog is one of the many third-generation Game blogs that addresses only a small aspect of Game, but as I have said many times, we all have our part to play in its continuing development.

While his distinction between Evil Game and Good Game being based on what serves - or at least does not too openly conflict with - the Female Imperative and what does not is a potentially useful one, I do not believe it is a serious problem.  Any attempts to coopt or divert Game that are not in line with the truth will rapidly fail, and make the parts that are legitimate stand out in contrast with it. In the meantime, those efforts will continue to publicize it.

Consider Helen Smith's new book.  She's not a theoretician of Game. She's a woman. And while she specifically makes the case for men's rights per se, not merely as something beneficial to women, she openly admits that she can only be a voice speaking up for men, she is not a male voice.  And yet, Men on Strike contains a section on the socio-sexual hierarchy and will likely do more to bring attention to Alpha Game, and by extension Roissy, Rollo, Dalrock, and other blogs featured here, than anything I've ever done.

The reason there is no cause for concern about cooption is because like Biblical Prophecy, if it doesn't reliably work, it is not Game. Even the transmission of adulterated Good Game is potentially useful because Game is also like a virus.  Very small doses are all that are required to inspire even the most abused, brainwashed male mind to ask that vital question that all of us finally asked ourselves at one point or another: why is the female behavior I am observing so different than what I was told by my mother, taught at my school, and preached at my church?

Once that question is asked, it is only a matter of time before the matrix of the Female Imperative is exposed to the questioner, never again to go unseen.

46 comments:

Anonymous said...

"Once that question is asked, it is only a matter of time before the matrix of the Female Imperative is exposed to the questioner, never again to go unseen."

Goddamn right.

facepalm said...

Are you kidding? If anything, "game" is disintegrating. It has come to mean, basically, going to the gym, eating steak, and replying to your date/girlfriend/wife's nags using the principle of agree and amplify. There is very little to distinguish between "christianized Game, married Game, divorced Game, socialized Game, high school Game, etc." The number of guys actually using game proper for it's intended purpose - picking up and bedding women is vanishingly small, and becoming smaller. Blogs like this have co-opted the name given to the toolbox of skills the seduction community taught was useful in persuading women to sleep with you, hollowed out, and diluted it's meaning so that it's come to mean basically, working out and being sarcastic with your wife. Because the real audience of blogs like this are the IT nerds and their Christian equivalents ("BETAS" in other words) who are really just looking to get a girlfriend or keep their wife from cheating on them, if at all possible.

"Game" is not going to the gym. "Game" is not talking to people. "Game" is not standing up for yourself. "Game" is not putting protein in your diet. That's just common fucking sense. Pretty soon getting a haircut and wiping after a shit is going to be good game.

tz said...

There is the female side - but that is like trying to get an alcholoic to admit that his behavior is destructive. Especially when the lower ranks make such good lower SH ranked co-dependents suffering the consequences of her alpha addiction.

Even when dragged into the light, these ancient and deep things still have power, but they can only be overcome in the light.

VD said...

The number of guys actually using game proper for it's intended purpose - picking up and bedding women is vanishingly small, and becoming smaller.

This sounds like an acolyte of Thomas Edison complaining that electricity is being used for purposes other than its intended purpose, lighting light bulbs.

Game is a tool. It can be used for many things, including its original purpose.

Tom said...

When I first came to this site from Vox Populi, I was yet again confused about what Vox Day really thought.

Since he was talking about Game and I knew Game only from PUA sources, I was like, "What the heck." I had thought Vox was a Christian. Though I could reconcile his differences with me on doctrine, I couldn't figure out how he could be supporting Game.

VD - Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't support the use of Game for fornication by Christians. But, you do support the aspects of Game that are part of the Truth of how God made people, their roles He designed them for, and how He intended them to behave toward one another.

Reading Dalrock has really helped me to understand the way Game applies to a Christian worldview. It seems that Game is not so much adding something new to a Christian worldview, but rather recovering something that was intentionally destroyed by Satanic attacks over recent generations.

If only I could figure out how to talk about these things with my wife more effectively. She doesn't really understand how other women act and interact because she doesn't participate in a lot of the social insanity. She's more reasonable and logical that any other woman I've ever met. Yet, anything said about women in general is always taken as a personal insult against her. Maybe if I stopped calling women "chicks" all the time... Or maybe if I lost the 100 lbs I need to...

Loki of Asgard said...

It is always amusing to watch the rise of a new, all-encompassing philosophy and worldview. It remains to be seen what rituals will accompany this one.

dannyfrom504 said...

it's funny how i stumbled upon Roissy after he was linked in a feminist male-bashing article. they're promoting us without even realizing it.

and game is like the force, neither good nor bad. it's how it's used that matters.

VD said...

VD - Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't support the use of Game for fornication by Christians. But, you do support the aspects of Game that are part of the Truth of how God made people, their roles He designed them for, and how He intended them to behave toward one another.

Talking about my "supporting the use" is a category error. It's like asking me if I support the use of gravity to drop rocks on people's heads.

I'm interested in understanding the various facets of the truth. How people apply their understanding of that is of little interest to me.

facepalm said...

Game is a tool. It can be used for many things, including its original purpose.

You don't know what you're talking about. You don't even know what, exactly, game is, or whether it even works, or in which way it might. Like I said, brushing your teeth isn't game. Nowadays, game means anything from eating steak to increasing the size of the social circle you are involved with, to wearing a suit, and almost even to believing in conspiracy theories, if we're to take some of the idiots in the "manosphere" seriously. And just about everything in between. If we're going to call everything game, why not just replace the word "men" with "gamers", or some other equally ludicrous and pointless appellation. Being a loser and deciding to man up is not "game", it's self-improvement, it's being normal. The smaller tactics that have survived, like the tactic of agree and amplify to deal with "shit tests", are "game", but the rest of it is totally lost on sites like this that imagine they are opening up a new field of inquiry by abstracting from game.

I would like to know exactly which things are game, and which are not. Is having a flashy car and a nice apartment game? Is being a sports star game? Is flying to Eastern European countries and standing out as a Westerner game? Is being a witty and engaging conversationalist game? Is wearing a leather jacket game?

If game is everything that is potentially attractive to women, why all the fuss? We could just tabulate a (long) list and be done with it.

You say "game is a tool". What does this mean? What are the features of this tool? How is it implemented? What are it's components and how do they work? You should know, you use the word just about every day here.

tz said...

Game today is what we can understand of the behaviors, instincts, and reactions between the sexes. It was the same thing but even the Pagans - those that became civilized - realized that the alternate model - Patriarchy (and not Andro-archy, Fatherhood) was the only viable model.

If you go back to those dusty old books - mostly religious, you will find long (and accurate!) discussions of the four temperaments, the passions, behavior and such. I think you can find Game in it, but it would be buried under different terms that would not be well understood today. I haven't seen Summa Theologiae for Idiots.

The most important aspect of Game to the church is the feminization. Jesus was masculine. The perfect Man. He acknowledged women but did not submit or defer to them. He called everyone to repent - including prostitutes and adulteresses.

The church he founded continued the idea of Patriarchy.

Do not think that men dislike feminism - in the old order, men were given responsibility for protecting and caring for women (who in turn would care for children). Men were liberated with the thought that women are now responsible for providing for, protecting, and caring for themselves. True equality in all its horror.

The feminist imperative doesn't so much want it both ways, it is such are merely con-women. If a man swindles another man out of his wealth, it is a crime, and shameful. If a woman swindles a man out of his wealth it is celebrated. (See Dalrock's "Firebombed" for a trivial media christian example and explanation).

Most churches just go along with this, either not covering those sections of the bible (it is easy to find something to talk about that sounds good but is non-controversial), or when they do cover it ignore that both men and women are sinners, and women are some of the most evil people in the Bible. We need to lose the princesses.

It might be that the evil takes a different form - we had the witch craze because of the same correct recognition - they won't even stab you in your back, but will put poison in your tea. Passive-aggressive is still aggressive. Sins of omission (and even consent) are still sins. Women are also called to be holy, not to have their sinfulness dismissed or accepted - they have trouble with "gay marriage", but let women get away with worse.

But that brings me to the counter-spell to Game, Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body. It is about sex, but describes the idea, which is achievable with ordinary virtue, but it does take virtue. Just as you can see what successful PUAs do to achieve their goals, if the goal is happiness within marriage, it explains the meaning - physical and spiritual. We are not ghosts in a machine, both our bodies and souls are part of us, and everyone (even the damned) will be resurrected in a body like our Lord.

The other place that Game helps is figuring out how to be more attractive before or in marriage. To work with the instincts instead of against them. A woman who lets herself be ugly (or worse, looks like something from SyFy at night to look pretty during the day for everyone EXCEPT her husband), or a man who is weak and won't head his household (Muscles or not, though they help - you can find examples of betas who work out but won't lead losing out to a physically mediocre PUA). Also to identify the differences in communication, to stop and think and not to read something into a few quick words.

tz said...

I differ with Vox on this in that I am interested in how people apply things. I do pray for souls to be saved, and we are commanded to evangelize, not be indifferent to the fate of others - we need to exhort Christians to continue the upward walk on the narrow path, AND do what we are called for to convert sinners. "I don't care that the world is going to hell as long as I get to heaven" is NOT the gospel and will lose more converts than it will gain.

Christ died on a cross for that other man - that other person applying knowledge for evil, either intentionally sinning or doing the damage while thinking they are doing good (the latter is far more dangerous). To be indifferent to sinners is to turn the atonement of the Cross - to and for every person as an individual - to something selfishly grasped - Jesus did it for me, but I don't care if he did it for anyone else, so who cares about all that extra suffering for others. Jesus would leave the 99 to save even one more.

Why no new Pentecost? This is why. We are to go out into all the world and preach the gospel - the truth. Instead we are satisfied with our own personal iSavior, plug in, turn on, and tune out. But that isn't the holy spirit.

However to evangelize, you can't rely just on the holy spirit - you need to go to where they are. In this age it means the land of Game. There are many "Christian Marriage Counselors" that are giving toxic advice, or at least treating symptoms without understanding the foundations, or even that the Bible is right in what it literally says.

This is no different than any other age. Paul complained about those preaching "another gospel". The feminized churches are preaching another gospel. But it is hard to argue as the culture is so toxic it can be blamed for whatever destruction occurs.

Everyone is at some level seeking Christ - at least until they knowingly reject him after understanding the truth. Those engaging in Game are seeking after something greater, something sex and human relations can't provide but give a taste of. There is something they really want. Just read Augustine. Sometimes it takes a long time to get there.

Als Strife said...

nice article :)

http://alsgamecollection.blogspot.com

A Man For All Seasons said...

Facepalm is indignant because game has been coopted away from the seduction community. Out of all the activities of men, racking up strings of one night stands can never really be considered a high calling. Game is much more than this.
For most red pill guys, Game represents a new perspective on relations between the sexes. It was always said that women are a mystery. Freud thought he had a good theory of psychology, but this was only for men. He said women are still a complete mystery. Current game theory provide a comprehensive theory of how women think, so they are actually fully understandable by men. This is revolutionary.
In the past PUAs had a bunch of routines they could use to pick up women, but now there is a theory behind it. Anytime you learn a skill or a body of knowledge, you start with rules and rote learning, and gradually you come to understand the whys and the hows behind the rules. Red pill knowledge represents this deeper level of understanding, which didn't exist until just the last few years.
Facepalm talks about how game seems to have become nothing but a bunch of self help advice. Game is self help information, which has been desperately lacking. Frankly, most game advice relates to shallow behavior. Dressing well, staying fit, and passing shit tests ought to be the least important things in judging the quality of a man. Working hard, supporting your family, selflessly caring for and providing for your wife and kids, and contributing to the community are things with far greater value and depth. Men foolishly have thought their wives or girlfriends would love them if they did these things of value and substance. Now we know that these things mean nothing to women, and that flash and swagger are what it takes to make a woman love you passionately forever.
Men may still want to do things of value, for their own sakes, but if they want the love of a high quality woman, they now know what they really have to do to get it.

A Man For All Seasons said...

Gaming your wife or your girlfriend takes more than just gym, tan, laundry. It really does take the full range of knowledge developed to pick up chicks for one night stands. The whole range of PUA behaviors, from DHV, acting cocky and funny, doing kino, building comfort and rapport, stimulating her emotions; these are all necessary to keep your wife or long term girlfriend engaged.
It was always said that there is a honeymoon period in a relationship, but this glow of romantic love fades after a year or two. Especially once you start having children, and getting bogged down in building a career, it is very easy for sex and romantic affection to dry up in a marriage.
The techniques used for picking up sloots in the bar are the same that are used to keep your wife engaged in a marriage. Lifting weights, dressing nice, and passing shit tests are a real good start for someone just starting out with game, but every married man really should learn the full range of seduction techniques. Their wives will truly and deeply love them for it.

Brian the Brain said...

Hideousness Of Female Imperative.

That is correct: hideousness. Women are trying to redefine what men find attactive. When did men agree that fat is the new normal? I do not remember assenting to this or the concept of "BBW". Big Beautiful Woman? More like Big Blubber Women! This whole phrase is a self contained contradiction. When did obese become beautiful?

Modern women seem to have two broad personality traits in common: 1. lack of compassion for thier fellow human beings and 2. Selfishness that boarders on patholigical. So the idea of redefining beauty makes perfect sense. If you have no compassion for others (including men), you simply do not care how they feel or even what they want. If you are pathologically selfish, you care only about what is easiest for you at a given time, in a given place, and in a given situation.

Given these two traits, modern women would seek to redefine "attractive" to a body type that requires the least effort from them: FAT! The blubbering-up of modern women will continue as long as men tolerate and accept it. When over-weight, obese, and the new "average" women cannot find a man to accept them (other than a complete loser), they will change thier bodies to something more attractive to men. Never forget a woman's biological imperative to reproduce. Many of these women will change thier bodies so that they can reproduce - or die fat spinsters.

Gentlemen, always remember: we only deserve what we will tolerate. We deserve attactive women so don't tolerate the blubber

Jack Amok said...

You say "game is a tool". What does this mean? What are the features of this tool? How is it implemented? What are it's components and how do they work? You should know, you use the word just about every day here.

God (or Gaia, you're choice) gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason - you're supposed to listen more than you talk. If you actually paid attention instead of spending all your (meager) mental energy on coming up with your next response, you would already know the answer.

Jack Amok said...

Gaming your wife or your girlfriend takes more than just gym, tan, laundry. It really does take the full range of knowledge developed to pick up chicks for one night stands.

Keeping your wife physically attracted to you over the course of a marriage is orders of magnitude harder than picking up sluts for one night stands.

There's the old saying that no man is a hero to his valet. If you spend an immense amount of time around someone, they see you at your worst. Your weakest, your dumbest, your least impressive. My wife has seen me have to crawl to the bathroom after a back injury. She's seen me lose my composure. She's seen me fail at one business venture and barely pull my ass out of another.

If you're married, you have to make sure your best more than makes up for your worst.

VD said...

You say "game is a tool". What does this mean? What are the features of this tool? How is it implemented? What are it's components and how do they work? You should know, you use the word just about every day here.

Since you're so slow, I will repeat the definition that I have provided here on numerous occasions. Game is the articulated, conscious, and synthetic imitation of the instinctive, natural behavior of men higher on the socio-sexual hierarchy.

This is why Married Game is different than Pick-Up Game. The successful Married Alpha's behavior is going to concern different situations than the successful Pick-Up Alpha.

Same tool, same concept, same acknowledgement of female behavioral tendencies, different situation and different objectives.

Rex Little said...

When did men agree that fat is the new normal?

I don't know, but a lot of the young ones seem to have done so. Most of my stepson's girlfriends have been fat; not obese, but heavier than I ever would have gone for. And none of them had any trouble finding guys to cheat on him with.

Cail Corishev said...

If guys like Ross Jeffries, David Deangelo, and now Rollo and Roissy, were studying the mating habits of animals and producing the kind of results that game/red-pill students have produced over the past couple decades, they'd be considered scientists and given government grants.

But since they're Doing Science on human behavior -- and specifically on aspects of human behavior we're not very comfortable with -- they're just jerks. How dare they introduce heliocentrism, when facepalm's geocentric model predicts the movements of the heavens just fine!

realmatt said...

Game and really any area of the study of any human behavior musy lead always to the conclusion that the platypus is less absurd than a human being.

realmatt said...

Facepalm: One of the many multi colored top hat wearers incapable of seeing the forest for the trees.

The OG puas were terribly simple and nerdy so getting laid was the Holy Grail to them.

But yeah keep going out to run canned routines. Last I checked Mystery got some vapid looking 7 at best club slut pregnant.

ray said...

"The reason there is no cause for concern about cooption is because like Biblical Prophecy, if it doesn't reliably work, it is not Game"


very much like statements i've heard before from the Game Gurus, some of whom likewise equate Game with Scripture, under claims that both = Truth

but a self-aggrandizing cult of ANY makeup (including PUA/Game) is not equivalent to Scripture, nor to Christ, who is Truth

Game is the "truth" composed by human beings, obstensibly for the betterment of "others" but typically involving the self-service of its merchandisers, cult members, and orbiters desiring to adopt the latest gimmick and fit in

rabbits runnin' in the ditch! must be the season of the witch :O)

the standard of what "reliably works" in making God's Prophecy and Man's Game equivalent is to corrupt and pollute something pure (the LORD's Word) in the advancement of something impure (Game/PUA)

... so, you are advocating a rather Rapey McRaperson approach to what is whole, pure, and innocent -- befouling the prophetic word of Scripture with your own intellectual and psychological lusts

more than a little predatory ick! i had thought better of you

Cail Corishev said...

Ray,

An analogy isn't an equals sign.

VD said...

... so, you are advocating a rather Rapey McRaperson approach to what is whole, pure, and innocent -- befouling the prophetic word of Scripture with your own intellectual and psychological lusts

Ray, if I banned people for sheer stupidity, you would actually take precedence over Facepalm. Congratulations.

I understand some people don't grasp metaphor, but failing to understand simile is truly impressive.

Sigyn said...

I understand some people don't grasp metaphor, but failing to understand simile is truly impressive.

This would explain why he shuts up every time I threaten him. That is really, really scary.

Loki of Asgard said...

Use your power over his feeble mind wisely, Pet.

ray said...

They Live! lol

Red Pill Theorist said...

Like @Danny, I found Roissy when slate linked to "a misogynist website." I think Rollo's concerns about game operating within the feminine are overblown. " Very small doses are all that are required to inspire even the most abused, brainwashed male mind to ask that vital question that all of us finally asked ourselves at one point or another." Right on.

rycamor said...

Rex Little said...

When did men agree that fat is the new normal?

I don't know, but a lot of the young ones seem to have done so. Most of my stepson's girlfriends have been fat; not obese, but heavier than I ever would have gone for. And none of them had any trouble finding guys to cheat on him with.


Fact of the market, I think. Men will always find a way to adjust themselves to reality, disheartening as that reality may be at times.

Of course, that's part of the problem. If enough men stopped adjusting themselves and then women would finally wake up and start doing some adjusting.

rycamor said...

Tom said...

If only I could figure out how to talk about these things with my wife more effectively.


Why? Talking about it makes zero difference. Even for logical women who can appreciate it at an intellectual level, the fact is the application speaks to her instinct, not her intellect. It's the same thing as a woman trying talk a man into seeing her as more attractive, when all she has to do is get to the gym more often, wear sexier clothes, and put on a little makeup.

She doesn't really understand how other women act and interact because she doesn't participate in a lot of the social insanity. She's more reasonable and logical that any other woman I've ever met. Yet, anything said about women in general is always taken as a personal insult against her.

You do understand, that's the way they roll, don't you? Which is exactly why you don't whine and complain in a judgemental way about women in general, but teasing... um... negs! That's it! It's a feature, not a bug. Learn how to take advantage of it.

Maybe if I stopped calling women "chicks" all the time... Or maybe if I lost the 100 lbs I need to...


Can't hurt...

Of course, even the best-looking guy can turn into a loser in the eyes of his woman if he doesn't exhibit manly demeanor. For men, it is always behavior over beauty.

Toby Temple said...

I understand some people don't grasp metaphor, but failing to understand simile is truly impressive.

What would the world be if such hilarious people do not exist?

facepalm said...

"Keeping your wife physically attracted to you over the course of a marriage is orders of magnitude harder than picking up sluts for one night stands"

Fucking laughable. Of course this would be the case if you faked your way into her pants from the beginning. Good luck keeping up the charade you idiot. Is there any critical thinking here? You guys swallowed the "red pill" and it seems to have killed brain cells. What are the stats on the success of game techniques for long term relationships assuming game techniques doesnt mean standard self improvement efforts like being a better socializer, dressing better, and working out?

I still havent gotten an answer to what game is besides normal self improvement? If its a mystery style seduction system than what relevance does it have to ltrs? Youre not going to palm read your fucking wife for the length of your marriage. If its apeing the behaviour of alphas what exactly does that mean Vox? Have you thought it through, or do you just think you have? Which part is game and which is not? Is working out as an alpha would game or is that just self improvement. Why dont we just call anything that might be attractive to women game? Then we could ourselves gamers instead of men.

You havent thought this through.

facepalm said...

"Game is the articulated, conscious, and synthetic imitation of the instinctive, natural behavior of men higher on the socio-sexual hierarchy."

You're not saying anything here. Which behaviours exactly?

Let me spell it out for you, because you don't get it. What you've done is taken Roissy's definition as a given and because of your pretensions to intellectualism, attempted to generalize it. But all you've managed to do is confuse the concept. What Roissy means by the definition you gave is apeing the manner and attitude of alphas, and the specific behaviours that manifest from those attitudes in conversation and body language. He goes out of his way to say that attitude and affect is more important than looks or success, except at the extreme tail ends of the curve.

To any man with self respect, displaying attitudes you don't hold should be anathema, obviously. And there can be a debate about that, because that is essentially what Roissy is advocating. But there is no debate, especially not here, about any deeper aspects of game, or even what game means here, because your audience has uncritically accepted your definition, even though it really has nothing to do with what you talk about here. This blog is little more than repetitive musings on social trends. There is almost no game content and in it's absense the audience has replaced the original Roissyean concept of game here with a sloppy assortment of self-improvement advice and affective displays like smirking wile you fart in front of your wife.

asdf said...

facepalm,

Mystery was a total loser. He started doing game because he was a loser and couldn't think of any other way to get women. If you read about the guys life he has some really spectacular flame out failure going on.

If that's "game" then the only appeal you're ever going to have is to losers with nothing else going on in their lives. "Game" has moved beyond failure aspie dorks acting like morons in clubs. Get used to it.

facepalm said...

Asdf - ok but game is for losers. At least for guys who are losers with women. At least if youre talking about game as Roissy means. Im not sure what others intend it to mean. It has become a catch all for anything from right wing political opinions and conspiracy theories all the way to just hitting the gym.

mmaier2112 said...

And here you are... again....as always... making an ass of yourself on a website for losers.

If you can analyze what's wrong with this and every other Game site, surely you could put your brilliant insights to good use SOMEHOW, right? /s

facepalm said...

Does analyzing it make you uncomfortable mmaier? Are you heavily invested in this crap? Grab your blanky and wipe those tears away, and grow the fuck up.

Badger said...

facepalm is going through a rhetorical technique I've seen (esp on the Internet) where the antagonist puts on a seemingly-dialectical frame of "I can be convinced if you tell me more information," and proceeds to troll you into spending a bunch of your time giving detailed logical information which simply provides the antagonist with more ways to quibble with your stance and waste more of your time.

Was curious if Vox or anybody knew a philosophical name for this posture. It's close to a false flag in that the antagonist's mind is made up but he's posing as if he's undecided.

Badger said...

"Keeping your wife physically attracted to you over the course of a marriage is orders of magnitude harder than picking up sluts for one night stands"

I want to add to this not for facepalm but for others who might get something out of it. What's the difference between pickup game and relationship game, behavior-wise? A large part of it is that LTR/married game has a very large component of arranging the life of you and your wife/gf so that romance, affection and sex have the opportunity to happen on a regular basis (hopefully daily).

Unless you're Don Draper, by the time you're married your wife is going to know an awful lot about you. Serious attempts to affect aloofness and mystery tend to be fraying to the long-term comfort and loyalty factors that concern the coupled woman's mind, whereas in an early pickup they are essential to stoking the attraction.

Also, in relationship game getting laid is not a discrete event the way closing the deal with a new paramour is - it should be a normal and periodic part of the relationship, that you know is going to happen with some regularity as it's built in to your weekly lifestyle. The idea of a "seduction" is really just icing on the cake to move the ball across the goal line, because she's already colocated with you, and ostensibly has "committed" to a life with you and thus is in agreement with you on the basic tenets of your lifestyle and personality.

Whereas in pickup the seduction is an elaborate psycho-logistical process much of which involves maintainly a coyly unknowable attitude that feeds the hamster's desire to tell itself enchanting romantic stories about the dashing fellow on the other side of the condom.

It is without fail on Athol Kay's forum: when sex becomes something that is notable and a series of discrete events, it's a sure sign of relationship trouble.

facepalm said...



facepalm is going through a rhetorical technique I've seen (esp on the Internet) where the antagonist puts on a seemingly-dialectical frame of "I can be convinced if you tell me more information," and proceeds to troll you into spending a bunch of your time giving detailed logical information which simply provides the antagonist with more ways to quibble with your stance and waste more of your time.


Maybe if you were actually interested in the issue being discussed instead of burying the problem you might have realized that actually, no time has been spent "giving detailed logical information" let alone "a bunch of time".

facepalm said...



Unless you're Don Draper, by the time you're married your wife is going to know an awful lot about you. Serious attempts to affect aloofness and mystery tend to be fraying to the long-term comfort and loyalty factors that concern the coupled woman's mind, whereas in an early pickup they are essential to stoking the attraction.


Fine, so what exactly is married game in your opinion, and how is it different from just self improvement efforts? From my recollection Athol was a balding, chubby herby looking guy and his wife wasn't anything to write home about either. I'm not saying this simply to be mean but he had a long way to go and it goes to reason that someone like that would benefit greatly from some simple self-improvement efforts before ever getting to "married game", whatever it may be. So what is this "married game" you're talking about?

A Man for All Seasons said...

Badger, I would say that ideally, a man would be in a continuous state of harmony with his wife, with frequent sex as a part of that general relationship harmony. However, as the decades go by, and menopause comes and passes, there are inevitably very difficult times in one's marriage. I would say that seduction is needed to rekindle the fire, and sometimes the fire has to be rekindled every single time. If someone is truly dedicated to making the marriage work for life, then It's necessary to have seduction skills in the tool box.

For Facepalm, you're right that you can't be reading your wife's palm every day. However, palm reading is part the general idea of connecting with a woman by stimulating her emotions, by using kino, and by making regular displays of leadership and balls. This can be done no matter how long a relationship lasts, and yet they really are the same skills used with a pickup. It's the ongoing use of seduction that keeps a marriage from decaying into a roommate situation

Toby Temple said...

facepalm said...
You're not saying anything here. Which behaviours exactly?

What you've done is taken Roissy's definition as a given and because of your pretensions to intellectualism, attempted to generalize it. But all you've managed to do is confuse the concept. What Roissy means by the definition you gave is apeing the manner and attitude of alphas, and the specific behaviours that manifest from those attitudes in conversation and body language.


Seriously, facepalm, you do have serious reading comprehension problems.

You think your statement trumps this:

"Game is the articulated, conscious, and synthetic imitation of the instinctive, natural behavior of men higher on the socio-sexual hierarchy."

How can you even claim that Vox does not get it when you basically repeat what he just said?

Saying that copying another person's behavior is anathema is just plain idiotic and a show of ignorance.

If you want to be successful, you copy how successful people do things.

That's just it. Game is copying men who are successful with women.

The concept is not new. We basically copy what we see other people do when we are children.

We copy what we see and consider to be good for us and repeat it until we master it.

To make it even simpler for you facepalm, Reggie Miller was not born with the great skill at taking shots from the 3-pt line. He saw that there are already other players who shoot really well from the 3-pt line. So he watched them. Remember how they threw the ball from such a distance and copied it. Then he practiced what he saw. Honed it. Repeated the process. Spend several hours a day for practice and shoots thousands of shots from the 3-pt line a day. And he finally became one of the all-time best 3 point shooters in the NBA.

facepalm said...

For Facepalm, you're right that you can't be reading your wife's palm every day. However, palm reading is part the general idea of connecting with a woman by stimulating her emotions, by using kino, and by making regular displays of leadership and balls. This can be done no matter how long a relationship lasts, and yet they really are the same skills used with a pickup. It's the ongoing use of seduction that keeps a marriage from decaying into a roommate situation

Fine, I mostly agree with that, and seduction is game, and I'm interested in game. But I think it's important to separate game from other self improvement work, because when you mix them as people tend to do here and on other blogs the actual game content gets watered down and diluted with self improvement tropes and fantasies about acting like James Bond.

How can you even claim that Vox does not get it when you basically repeat what he just said?

You don't get it either. That definition doesn't mean anything out of context because it's too general. For example in the context of Roissy's blog it works because it's clear that he's talking about the attitude and manner of "alphas", and he posts on specific techniques that are drawn from examples of that. Here, it doesn't mean anything because there is no actual "game" advice, so people take it to mean working out and being a leader to your wife. That may work, but it's not specific enough to be game.

Saying that copying another person's behavior is anathema is just plain idiotic and a show of ignorance.

Well there can be a discussion about that, but I wouldn't say learning to shoot a basketball is the same as pretending to be something you're not. Reggie Miller wasn't trying to convince the ball that he could toss it into the net. That's not what made the difference. The issue in seduction as opposed to other endeavors is that attitude is the main coin of the realm, and how you manipulate that is largely going to determine your success. Whether that absolves you from being an authentic human is the issue.

In either case, it's evident you haven't thought it through, even to this level, so I think it's apparent that actually, you're the ignorant idiot. Try harder.

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