Monday, March 4, 2013

Alpha Mail: what's a woman to do?

AM asks how, as a thirty-something non-carousel rider, she is expected to navigate an increasingly difficult marriage marketplace:
I am a 32 year old woman of Indian descent that was raised in a extremely Christian and god-fearing household and am still single.

I need some advice on finding a husband. I really don't know what to do and thought you might have some suggestions. I was reading 3rd Millenium Men and they were listing 7 reasons Not to Seriously Date Girls over 30 (and I am 32). I am not disputing that the guy has given valid reasons for this. I am human. I can't help the fact that I am probably hitting the wall (though I and my family are relatively youthful looking, I don't or never got into the party lifestyle, rarely drink alcohol, eat relatively healthy and exercise so it might take longer), my fertility is declining and maybe a bit emotional but does that mean I have to prepare for a life of spinsterhood? This search isn't new, I have been at this for several years and it has become very discouraging, my mother started helping when I turned 25 as arranged marriages are very popular in our culture (and I am open to them). I promise, I was never one of those women that wanted to put off marriage and family for a career. I did go to college, but now have a low paying dead end office job. I really did want to get married and have children by now. I would have married in college if I found any guy that I liked that much.

The positives about me (I think) is that I have no ex boyfriends to speak of and have never had sex, as I think it is something important to save for marriage. I have never  I am relatively attractive and am not fat or have been overweight. I have waist length hair, no grays. While you might call this "Churchanity", I attend church every Sunday (and no there aren't any single guys remotely in my age range) and Bible Study Fellowship every Monday.

The negatives about me is that I am extremely shy and socially awkward. I have been diagnosed with ADHD, which I inherited, which I don't want to take drugs for but would change my diet. I rarely went out in college or in my twenties, not even to safe, Christian centered events. While people like me, I don't have any close friends. I can cook (or at least can easily learn to do so, I do cook and bake for my self and family) I am not the best housekeeper.

My mother says I should pray to god about this and look presentable, and that is the extent of it. Do you have anything that I might not have thought of, or should I got to the nearest animal shelter and adopt a dog and prepare for spinsterhood?
It's really up to AM.  If she is going to continue to be ruled by her shyness and social awkwardness, she probably is going to end up alone.  The rules have changed and the low deltas and gammas of the world are no longer expecting or even trying to find wives, not with the ready availability of Female Alternatives such as porn and games combined with a decade or more of invisible sexual maturity.

If she wants it, she has to be prepared to seek it out and find it.  There are plenty of delta/gamma Indian men in the programming world; it can't be that hard to figure out where they are and what is of interest to them.  But then, the decision has to be made to go and let it be known that she is available and interested in pursuing marriage and children.

Feminized churchianity has all but driven off all the men under 40, so it's not a very good place to meet a Christian man these days.  Does anyone else have any suggestions?  Unfortunately, AM serves as an example of how the uncontrolled behavior of some women makes life that much more difficult even for those who behave in a more traditional manner.

In the meantime, she shouldn't get too down over the androsphere rhetoric.  Most men over the age of 35 are perfectly open to marrying a woman in her thirties, particularly early thirties, regardless of the arguments presented against it.  The only relevant point is that 32 is a little late to be extraordinarily picky about the men on offer; she shouldn't make the mistake of the forty-something laundry list cat collector and turn up her nose at a fundamentally decent man who might be lacking in a few areas.

113 comments:

Faust said...

Ian Ironwood, who is much smarter than I am and also has a cooler name, had a good post about this:
http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2012/12/girl-game-why-its-not-hopeless.html

Cail Corishev said...

These questions are tricky, because my first reaction is to ask, "Okay, what aren't you telling us?" The woman she describes, even if quite shy and socially awkward, should be getting some approaches from men. She certainly would have twenty years ago. I know things have changed somewhat; as you say, some of the lower-end men just aren't trying very hard anymore. But I don't think it's changed that radically yet, that a woman who's a 4 or so in looks, who can bring positives like virginity and femininity, never gets hit on.

So I don't know what to tell her, because I don't know what the problem is. Yes, it'd probably help if she were more outgoing and sociable, but I don't buy that that alone could be the cause here. So maybe it's looks -- to put it bluntly, maybe she's lying about (or unaware of) being ugly. Maybe she's extremely off-putting in some way that even horny, desperate guys can pick up on and avoid. Maybe her social circle is extremely weird and turned inward, so she never meets anyone else. Maybe she does get offers, but her standards are so high that all the offers come from the 80% who are invisible to her.

If she's "relatively attractive" and not overweight, she can dress nicely and go walk up and down in the nearest mall, and some guy will approach her. Or she could hang out in bookstores or coffee shops -- the places "nice guys" go to find nice girls. She doesn't have to pick them up; she just has to put herself in their line of sight and look feminine. If that doesn't work, then I'd have to see a picture, because I'd be stumped otherwise. I hope she's able to make some progress.

Brendan said...

It's really up to AM. If she is going to continue to be ruled by her shyness and social awkwardness, she probably is going to end up alone. The rules have changed and the low deltas and gammas of the world are no longer expecting or even trying to find wives, not with the ready availability of Female Alternatives such as porn and games combined with a decade or more of invisible sexual maturity.

If she wants it, she has to be prepared to seek it out and find it. There are plenty of delta/gamma Indian men in the programming world; it can't be that hard to figure out where they are and what is of interest to them. But then, the decision has to be made to go and let it be known that she is available and interested in pursuing marriage and children.


I agree with this. At the level she is looking at, lots of the guys are generally preferring the alternatives, and have given up on women more or less completely.

Not all, however. The trouble is finding the ones who remain, while at the same time finding them attractive. It's worth a try, no question, but it very well may not work. I would bet she could find someone to marry who isn't objectively bad around her socio-sexual rank level, but the issue is whether she would actually find a man like that attractive or not.

Bob Wallace said...

The word "recognize" means to look twice. Usually if a man looks twice, AND THE WOMAN SMILES, sooner or later some guy is going to talk to her. In fact, a lot of them will approach her.

revrogers said...

Dear AM,

Bring your "shyness" to the Lord and pray for confidence, then put yourself in ministry opportunities. Look for ministries of churches and parachurch ministries and actively involve yourself in improving the community. Be fun to be around. Smile. Dress colorfully without going to extreme. Laugh. Work on not constantly dwelling on your single status and instead focus on the task at hand (the ministry activity) all the while presenting a pleasant demeanor. Get to know people who might have unattached relatives (grandchildren, nephews, etc.) and minister to them with sincerity.

You have to be responsible for putting yourself out there to be noticed and to show your pleasantness to be around. Show that you have great domesticity in a man's future as well as a pleasant nurturing presence.

Cail Corishev said...

But then, the decision has to be made to go and let it be known that she is available and interested in pursuing marriage and children.

See, this is what I don't really buy. Maybe in another culture this would be true, but not in America. None of the women I've ever hit on let me know first that they were interested in marriage and children, beyond physically appearing fertile. Married women get hit on. Nuns get hit on, if they're attractive enough.

Most guys, even if they're looking for marriage and family, don't try to filter on that before being attracted and approaching the woman. I'm not even sure it's possible to do that, since attraction happens in the split second that you first see her.

GAHCindy said...

The match-maker in me soooo wants to introduce this woman to a programmer I know of who might fit her perfectly, if only he weren't still very much in mourning. First generation Indian, too. They could be a great match in a couple of years. A chaste wife is as hard to find at that age as a Christian husband, but if those two are out there, there must be plenty of hope that there are more. I recommend "Why Isn't a Pretty Girl Like You Married? and Other Useful Comments by Nancy Wilson" to help her get a better grasp of happiness for the still-single Christian gal.

GAHCindy said...

First generation Indian-American, I mean. grrrr.

Anonymous said...

7 years on the arranged marriage market with no offer? Seems like a funding problem with the dowry...

Anonymous said...

as an indian woman, I cant really understand why you are not married. since you say you are/were open to arranged marriages and you are not unattractive or unpleasant, why did nothing materialise? did you not meet many 'eligible bachelors'? did your parents not really make an effort?

perhaps you need to be completely honest with yourself. were you aiming too high? are you overestimating your looks and potential. it is not clear if you have a job/career? if the answers to all the above is positive, i.e you are not too picky, not in denial about your looks and have decent employment, then perhaps it is time to be more proactive

despite what the manosphere says, 32 is not irretrievably old. make a list of the minimum set of requirements you need from a partner. goto shaadi.com (if you are only looking for indian grooms) and make a good pitch with photographs and decent blurb about your faith, chastity and virtues. you should get a lot of responses.

if you dont mind non-indian origin grooms, then i am sure there are good christian websites for matrimonial purposes.

the key is to improve yourself. if you are shy and silent, get help to change it. if you need to improve looks, dress sense etc, get professional help to improve. think of yourself as a project and ruthlessly identify your weaknesses and work singlemindedly to eradicate them

good luck
maria

Anonymous said...

I'm going to state in a different way what's already been said.

AM will be able to find some men who will be interested. But she'll have to consider whether those men will be attractive to her. She'll probably also have to lower her standards as to what is "attractive" to her.

I too am wondering what's been omitted here. If a woman who wants to get married has made it to 30 without being married, something has gone very wrong. I suspect that that something is still wrong, and needs to be fixed. AM needs to figure out what that is, and fix it.

deti

Factory said...

If things weren't so shitty for men, I might feel sorry that this woman is feeling the effects of said shittiness as well...

Anonymous said...

I've seen this before, and commented on it at SunshineMary's.

Generally, if a woman can't seem to find a decent man with whom to make a relationship work, there are one or more of three things going on.

1. She's not hot enough. She needs to work on her physical appearance.

2. She's not nice enough. She needs to cultivate a more pleasant, nice personality.

3. She's not available enough. She needs to stop hanging out with her BFF posse and start smiling more. She also needs to stop working so hard, hiding behind her career, and decide that a relationship is a priority in her life.

deti

Jimmy said...

You should turn every negative into a positive.

1. You're 32. Consider dating men 5 to 10 years older. Older men perceive you as young as that is the factual truth.

2. You're extremely shy and socially awkward. So am I, but I overcame it to some extent. You can too. Be vocal at any opportunity. Try to standout by wearing more colorful clothing, brighter makeup, and an updated hair style. Function follows the Form.

3. Yes, discuss marriage and kids with prospects, but don't do it until you last to the third date. The first two dates don't count since they are designed for you or him to screen out unattractive and inappropriate candidates. If the candidate likes you (and you like him), it is time to ask about your future potential with marriage and kids.

4. No dogs or cats, probably not until well after 40. Animals are territorial. They also take away time from dating. Men usually hate them. It's like you decided to adopt a kid because you were too impatient to do the right thing by getting married and pregnant.

5. Get out more. No one method does the job. Blind dates are fine. I was set-up in more than a few, but don't rely on this. Do the online dating, but be cautious. I did speed dating where I met my current wife. I never dated anyone from church. The women were unavailable based on their attitudes (bad or nonexistent signals).

6. Be more aggressive. Women need to stop assuming men will be traditional men in this politically and feminized culture. Men are just cowed by the expectations of society and women in general. Women say the darnest things. What they say versus what they do are completely different. That's why you can make an impression by getting what you want instead of waiting for a guy to arrive.

Good luck in a Christian way. You can make your own luck.

Daniel said...

Maria,

The importance of "sufficient employment" for a bride is interesting to me. The sort of guys I know who are older than 32 and looking for a wife absolutely disqualify career women of that age - figuring they won't set it aside to become a wife and mother.

Also, marriage no long "materializes" like it used to, for many of the reasons listed above. Feminism has given men all sorts of options, and marriage is one of the least attractive (due to its feminized environment: easy "no-fault"/man-fault divorce, the decline of Christianity, matriarchal dominion over childbearing, the social honor of single motherhood, rampant pornography and easy, empowered, temp-wives) to the majority of men.

There are a good number of women that I know who are in the same situation. If I had any advice for what they could do better (aside from the relatively minor things already suggested), I'd give it.

Anonymous said...

Couple of things:
I think she may have to be willing to give it up before marriage. I don't mean put out for every guy who asks. I don't mean hop on the carousel. But when I was in the market, the idea that I wasn't going to find out what she was like in bed until there was no turning back was a deal breaker.

I'm not saying brake out the thong and micro-mini, but if first-date conversation includes "I'm saving it for marriage," a different approach might be in order.

sunshinemary said...

Cail Corishev wrote:

I would agree with this. I even got hit on while visibly pregnant. There must be something else going on here.

Also, given that arranged marriage is acceptable, why has that been a dead-end? There are Indian matchmaker services who arrange marriages, too.

There must be something else about AM that is keeping her from finding a man.

sunshinemary said...

Oops, Cail's comment that I was responding to got deleted from my comment, but I was responding to his assertion that even married women and nuns get hit on.

Sigyn said...

A bit of advice that was given to me here that worked pretty well, AM:

Get a professional to give you a makeover. You'd be surprised what just a little makeup done differently can do to correct your flaws or play up your assets.

Mike M. said...

I agree with the previous comments, but I'd add one other item.

Get into activities that men find interesting. I'm a big advocate of fencing, as it is martial enough to attract men, but non-contact enough to let women participate. But ALL the martial sports are good ways to meet men. Karate, fencing, shooting...anything.

Sigyn said...

I think she may have to be willing to give it up before marriage. I don't mean put out for every guy who asks. I don't mean hop on the carousel. But when I was in the market, the idea that I wasn't going to find out what she was like in bed until there was no turning back was a deal breaker.

So if she wasn't to your satisfaction, you'd ditch her and now she's lost her virginity while you've got you another notch on the ol' bedpost?

Hey, it's a great scam if you can work it, buddy.

S.Lynn said...

Network network network with friends, family, co-workers. Accept all blind dates. If you throw the line out enough something will bite.

Stickwick said...

One of my best friends was exceedingly shy in her late teens / early twenties. She was a very nice, friendly woman once you got to know her, but most people mistook her extreme shyness for conceit. When people would look at her, she'd look away, and she usually had an expression of unhappiness on her face when anyone she didn't know very well was around. Instead of coming across as shyness, it came across as haughtiness. She had no idea how off-putting it was until someone, mercifully, told her. She made an effort after that to smile more and try to engage people, and it made a difference.

This could very well be a factor with AM. Things are bad enough for men as it is, and VD mentioned that low deltas / high gammas aren't even looking these days. Such men aren't going to try to penetrate what they perceive as formidable defenses to pursue what is in actuality a very shy woman.

Two things to consider in overcoming shyness:

1. Recall 2 Timothy 1:7. It is AM's duty to overcome her shyness -- and she has been given the power to do it!

2. AM might try Toastmasters, as corny as that sounds. More than a few people have overcome their shyness and fear of speaking in front of others through that organization.

August said...

Remotely in her age range...

Once you stop being able to bear children, age range just doesn't matter.
I am older than her and I want children, so I shall very likely be looking for women younger than her, when ever I feel capable of providing for a family the way I see fit.

Now, if some 30something had actually had a decent career, maybe there could be some trade offs, because obviously there is risk in my strategy. But the 30somethings that I run into don't come with assets. They come with bad habits. Speaking of which, the one good thing this woman has is that she reads this stuff. She may need to start working game vocabulary into daily conversation. I know if I heard some chick use the word hypergamy in real space, I'd perk up and pay attention.

Trust said...

"6. Be more aggressive. Women need to stop assuming men will be traditional men in this politically and feminized culture."

Very true. Non alpha men have even been accused of harrassment for the "crime" of looking at skin a woman exposes if she doesn't like the man. Aside from the fact that not even an idiot of a man would write their feelings into criminal law, this is a reality for the majority of men.

Being aggressive does not necessarily mean initiate. It means express you're approachability. I was in grad school when a pretty young girl made eye conatct and smiled warmly. So I went over and talked to her. Just knowing he's not going to get the creep label by saying hello helps.

Remember a long term alpha is not only unlikely, it's probably more trouble than its worth. You'll not only continue to compete with much younger women, you'll be dismissed too easily because of the options inherent to alphadom. Imagine a nice guy dating Megan Fox.... who literally has millions of other options to understand why an alpha won't give a hoot what one easily replaceable woman thinks or feels.

Besides betas and deltas are far more loyal and dependable. Their lack of options makes them more appreciative and useful. But avoid the typical female trap of "now I can depend on the law to keep him in line so I don't need to treat him good." If you aren't willing to have.sex with him at least 30 minutes a week then spare him the "blessings" or marriage,like working 60 hours a week for crap in return.

Though it amounts to sacreligious in feminist dogma, a woman who has sex with her lower status husband regularly and seems to enjoy it will inspire loyalty that would shame a dog.

asinusspinasmasticans said...

There is nothing that can be added to Ian's post, and very little that can be added to deti's 15 second summary. I would add only one other thing.

Go to where the unappreciated men are. I am something of a dweeb, and I go to comic book conventions, Star Trek conventions, Magic the Gathering tournaments, high end electronics shows, marine radio technology exhibitions, etc.

The hawt women are going to the offline equivalent of BallerAlert.com looking to audition for spots in a high-demand man's harem. This leaves a lot of men sorely unappreciated, and increases your chances of success.

HanSolo said...

Jimmy, Deti and others gave good advice (improve looks, personality, approachability, increase your social circle to include target guys, be willing to date guys up to ~45 y/o).

I'll add 2 things:

1) Try internet dating. Not the best idea for men but it is a good idea for women since there are usually way more men than women on the sites. For example, POF.com has about 2-3x as many men as women so there will be men interested in her and asking her out. She'll have to screen out those just looking for sex. Maybe a more Christian-focused dating site would be better.

2) Get one or more trusted male friends or relatives that have good taste and will bluntly honest about your looks, personalities, mannerisms and taste in men. If you're a 6 that believes she's an 8 and is expecting a male 8 in overall value (not just looks) then you need a DRASTIC mental reboot--either accept the level you're at or improve your looks and personality. In this case you need to GET REAL! If you are at the level you think you are then just focus on overcoming the shyness and meeting guys.

HanSolo said...

Last sentence hould read:

If you're at the level you think you are and have maxed out your attractiveness or don't want to make any more effort on it then just work on overcoming your shyness and meeting guys (and any other big personality turn-offs for the type of guy you're trying to meet).

However, the majority of women haven't maxed out their appearance so you can likely improve by 0.5 or 1 points by getting better suited clothes, makeup, hair-style, and losing any extra weight (I get the sense you're not a total fatty because you eat healthy and exercise but there may be 10 lbs worth saying farewell to).

Josh said...

I'm sorry, but the lady in question just does not sound very interesting. Probably because of the shy/social awkwardness thing she mentioned.

Mike M. said...

A smile, pleasant manner, and good wardrobe are all powerful tools in the Girl Game arsenal.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the commentator about giving it up. A virgin at 25 says discipline and self worth. A virgin at 32 means low sex drive and sexual hang ups. The risk reward of marrying a girl like that isn't there. If that stereotype proves false you are still only going to get a few years of re wall out of her. If it proves true you are fucked for life.

Marrying a girl you haven't slept with is a risk. Here is a lot of uncertainty. To offset that uncertainty there needs to be a reward. The reward, youth and fertility, has been squandered. She must now remove the uncertainty if she is to find a man.

Rex Little said...

I see TV ads for ChristianMingle.com ("Find God's match for you") all the time. Might that work for her?

One caution I'd have for the men who might be interested: I've seen a lot of really cute younger Indian women, but I've never seen one over 40 who didn't look like a complete hag. The clock is ticking. . .

Ha said...

But ALL the martial sports are good ways to meet men.

Agree. That's how my buddy met his wife.

Try internet dating. Not the best idea for men but it is a good idea for women since there are usually way more men than women on the sites.

And that's how I met my wife.

Of course, she got 300 responses from sleazeballs and weirdos in addition to my response, but hey she got lucky and so might you!

Orion said...

Another perspective. The kind of men you may be best suited for are the ones that have some similar issues, except as men their problems are societally more difficult to get over. As a man interested in marriage having to deal with today's inter-gender relationships where disinterest from a woman could spell a law suit for sexual harassment or charges of rape, there are many reasons for them to just about drop out of the market as others have mentioned. While I wouldn't advocate all of the advice they might give, Eharmony does have a couple of positive points. It isn't meant to be just a dating site (though you may find a few that use it that way), it is meant to be a place to look for potential mates.
Quite truthfully, I was one of those men who was near his wits end regarding the contemporary dating scene. The site removed at least one huge issue for me in that I knew the women who would respond to my contacts were interested in marriage and not just someone to date. This gave me a chance to respond with total candor regarding what I wanted out of the relationship. I met a number of women on it before meeting my wife. She also had gone through a number of men. Don't expect the first person to be the right one.
As suggested above, broaden your outlook on possible husbands. I am ten years older than my wife and wanted children still, something women close to my age generally ruled out. You are a virgin still, which some above view as a hindrance. The kind of man you are most likely to be compatible with may even see it as a plus (I would have) as they don't have to fear comparison with a laundry list of other men. Most introverted guys don't have a long list of prior partners.

Anonymous said...

I recently dated a 32 year old virgin. She friend zoned me. She wanted a 3year courtship. Not sure how the tingles could stay alive during such a thing but I cannot escape the feeling things fizzled because there was no escalation. Perhaps that's an issue or maybe I am talking out my ass.

I cannot speak for other men, but an attractive, pleasant 32 year old virgin would have 1st dibs on my time

Meh said...

Get one or more trusted male friends or relatives that have good taste and will bluntly honest about your looks, personalities, mannerisms and taste in men.

The chances of honesty, probably 20%, the chances of a white-knighting "you are beautiful and perfect" assessment, probably 80%.

HanSolo said...

@Meh

That's why you find someone who's bluntly honest, not the feel-good sycophant! lol I play that role (blunt) with women who ask me for an honest opinion.

tz said...

"I have waist length hair, no grays". That is a big plus, I'm surprised no one else noticed yet

Try in the profile near the top to say you want to be a wife an mother and that you will give up your career. Maybe a T-Shirt that says directly or indirectly that you are traditional. It is normally an either-or choice for a traditional Christian Woman.

It is harder on me as I am Roman Catholic - Sex before marriage is forbidden and I take it seriously, as is not practicing NFP except for a serious reason, and divorce is not allowed. That makes the stakes very high but alters how I rate women.

Other than something unhealthy (e.g. addiction, morbidly obese, serious health condition), I don't pay much attention to appearance. I'd like it - very much! - but such is negotiable. Being a christian wife and holy mother are not. Putting out early - even attempting - would be a deal killer.

HanSolo said...

@Meh

She needs an honest, "objective" appraisal. Where do you suggest she get that?

Women? Nope. They'll either butter her up or tear her down.

Gay men? Better than women and white knights, though you have to make sure they get into the hetero's frame of what is attractive.

A straight male friend that is out of her league (hence, won't be as interested in lying to F her) might be a good bet. She will have to be totally clear that she wants a brutally-honest evaluation.

I actually has some correspondence with a woman on hookingupsmart that wanted a blunt evaluation. I think it was helpful for her.

Joe Blow said...

>>>Get into activities that men find interesting.

Yep. Get after some active sports. Want to meet guys? Join a club that goes on hikes in the mountains. Or a bike club. Or find a sailing club and put it out that you want to learn to sail with the Wednesday night beer can races. Or something similar that puts you out there with a lot of guys in a social but non-dating environment, an activity which tones the body and shows it off a little. (The sailing may not help there... but the other stuff). Men outnumber women 5:1 in most of these activities and although many are married, many are not. Just be yourself, and if yourself isn't warm and upbeat, learn to be warm and upbeat, and stay that way. And work on the outgoing. Force yourself to.

Remember not to shoot too high - you marry a man for potential, not for what he actually is right now. A guy who is 32 should be on a sharply upward career track right now for the next 10-15 years. (It usually tapers at 40-45.)

NateM said...

My girlfriend is very shy and awkward (which I constantly tease her about) so I may have a few insights for AM. First while some advice may say go for the "underappreciated" guys, nerds etc given her level of sociability that might be a problem. Sure he would be appreciative but if he also can't carry a conversation or a social situation it'd be a trainwreck. She could end up leaping into a relationship under the auspices of giving him a chance before realizing it won't work. The advice of getting out there is good. smiling, appearing open to being approached is sound advice, but i'd add she should become comfortable with rejection as well. She has to realize many of guys just won't be right or attractive. Sure she can't be ultra picky, but if her shyness extends to being uncomfortable turning guys down she will waste a lot of time after she's already decided a prospect has no future. Don't get sucked into dating out of obligation. Be realistic but patient I suppose is the message.

nateM said...

Adding : also don't get too down about your circumstances. My gf often failed to realize what she thought were faults were plusses to me, No exes, virgin, few female friends, religious upbringing (baptist, but nobody's perfect) with strong morals. Just happened to discover later, a strong sex drive. I just laugh when she apologizes for an of them.

taterearl said...

"I would have married in college if I found any guy that I liked that much."

There's the crux of your problem....not the shyness or awkwardness. You overvalued yourself and now it's biting you in the butt as the wall approaches.

alphamission said...

32 year old virgin? Put your number in my phone. But seriously, take Deti's comment to heart.

The Old Sarge said...

What? No Raj Kuthrapaali references?

You people are slipping. :-)

Anonymous said...

Stop whining. Buy some clothes that make you look hot. Go flirt with guys. Say stupid stuff and ask them out. Then on the first date or second date tell them you will never get serious about anyone who is not a committed Christian. Go out with anyone twice. Most of all stop feeling sorry about your condition. If you never marry, at least you can get a bunch of free meals and movies and break out of your shell. Nevertheless, get out today a talk to a guy, and ask him out. If you accidentally lose control and sleep with someone, God will forgive you, just like he did 95% of the people at your Church. The worse thing that can happen is you will end up getting murdered on a date with some psychopath, but you are Christian and will go to heaven. Either way you win. Go out today and say something stupid and flirty to a stranger. You sound like a real catch. Go for it now.

Anonymous said...

"I would have married in college if I found any guy that I liked that much."

Tatereal nailed it. Overvaluation is the reason why so much women end up alone.

If the woman is open to casual sex, she hops the cock carousel hoping an alpha will commit to her after tasting the free samples.

If the woman is religious, she does not go on the cock carousel but she expects the Right Guy (TM) to come along to sweep off her feet. She trusts in God to send the Prince (TM). Meanwhile, she discards every man who does not meet her unrealistic standards.

When a woman says "no man is interested", she means "no man I find attractive is interested". Men the woman doesn't find attractive are not even considered (this is a subconscious behavior).

When I see a woman complaining about the lack of men, I see a woman overvaluing herself and unwilling to compromise.

My advice: lower your standards, smile and be approachable. But, above all, lower your standards.

Anonymous said...

Go talk to three guys at a coffee house. Say stupid stuff, like you look so serious what are studying? Go sit next to some guys talking and but in their conversation. If you do this a few times a week, you will start magically becoming available and guys will start talking to you all on your own. Go see movies, go to museums do things that will give you something to talk about. Stop Whining and go for it. Even if you are ugly and boring you can find a man. Millions of ugly, boring women get married to nice Christian men all the time. Go for it.

Anonymous said...

BTW, Christian Man here, If you are in the Los Angeles area, I'll take you out on a date.

Vicomte said...

'It's really up to AM.'

At first I thought this was an I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream reference and felt guilty about laughing at it.

Turns out it was her name.

Anonymous said...

The manosphere needs it's own dating site. Maybe Vox can to add a section to his blog where like minded singles can meet.

rycamor said...

Especially these days, 32 is not that bad an age if you are willing to seriously take care of yourself. Lot's of good research on nutrition, exercise, and aging is available.

But yes, the problem for a lot of women is that these days it is easy to find a man willing to have sex, but very hard to find a man willing to marry.

"no ex boyfriends to speak of" does make one wonder, though. Have you even had any short-term relationships? A few dates with a guy? More than one guy? What went wrong? The question is, did you disqualify the guys or did they disqualify you? If you disqualified them, was it because they weren't attractive enough to you (not only physically, but personality-wise)?

If you were the one doing the disqualifying, and the men were eagerly seeking you, then you have to either a) lower your standards or b) find a setting where you will meet men better suited for you. See above advice.

If they disqualified you, even though they were willing to date you, this should tell you an important fact: you were physically attractive enough to interest them, but something about your personality or attitude turned them off. This is a good sign, because that means you have room for improvement.

As a man who didn't marry until the age of 33, even though I was a committed Christian and not a player, I can tell you this much: men are skittish. Men with options (I.E. attractive enough to know they can choose) are even more skittish, because in our current culture, they know that marriage is a serious sacrifice, with potential to turn them into frustrated chumps stuck with a woman who treats them like garbage (or divorced and flat broke). Ergo if you date a man with marriage in mind and he gets *any* sense that you have a prickly, selfish personality OR IF YOU ARE INCLINED TO BE NEGATIVE ABOUT THINGS, he will be inclined to hit the eject switch early.

The other side of this is what I would call the sexiness quotient. A man looking for an easy one-night-stand can take a chance on a woman and walk away if she turns out to be a cold fish in bed. A marriage-minded man who wants to wait to seal the deal needs at least some signals that the woman is, shall we say, hot to trot. This is the side of single life that the Christian relationship seminars never talk about, of course. Here, I suggest you study the great romantic movies from the 30s-50s and see how the heroines interact with their men, especially the wholesome ones like Audrey Hepburn and Grace Kelly. A vulnerable manner with a little sauciness goes a long way.

Jimmy said...

"Get after some active sports. Want to meet guys? Join a club that goes on hikes in the mountains. Or a bike club."

I'm a guy who done this to meet girls. Let me tell you, it didn't work for me. I'm not saying it can't work for you, but my results suggest low success.

From my point of view, the girls are paired up with each other. Girls don't always go by themselves. When they are paired up, they don't bother much with meeting new people. They seem indifferent or unfriendly. It is difficult to know if they are single and available, or single and unavailable. It is a rare case to see if anyone becames a couple after a few such events.

Probably attend anyways, but the girls should try to escalate. Find out if they will go someplace afterwards. Get a phone number.

It seems like the pressure of dating in such an environment could be discouraging. Everyone is watching everyone else. It can be uncomfortable. Try to move on to the next great thing. Don't rely on any one particular sport or interest.

Anonymous said...

Paul Elam, A Voice for Men- the biggest conjob in the MRA and disinfo agent

http://www.crimesagainstfathers.com/australia/Forums/tabid/82/forumid/107/postid/4658/scope/posts/Default.aspx

A short commentary on MRA leaders
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ElZzB4P2D4

The so called "Leaders" of the MRA area are lying to you all. They are telling you that governments make legislation that you HAVE to obey and that they can FORCE you to obey using the police FORCE. This is a lie. They know it is a lie. And they are telling you lies that they know are lies.

The TRUTH is that legislation is NOT LAW and you do not have to obey ANY legislation. Here are links to videos that go into this in detail. This is not a new idea. Many people KNOW that legislation is not law and have been telling you so for a long time.

The excuse offered is usually "well the guvment can hurt you if you do not obey" is just that. An excuse. The only reason that guvments do hurt men who do not obey is because men have TOLERATED these crimes and not formed new courts to put criminals in guvment on trial. Men only have themselves to blame.

ray said...

"Most men over the age of 35 are perfectly open to marrying a woman in her thirties, particularly early thirties, regardless of the arguments presented against it."



yes, western men are still astonishing grovellers when it comes to perceived need for females, so this spinster should cheer up

this woman, and her Team, won the battle long ago, and control all aspects of life and society, so i have little empathy at her perceived dispossession in one non-survival area of her life (romantic aspirations)

she should have married as a teenager, as she was designed, instead of following the script set by Ubergruppen Fem

if "solutions" are found for all the modern women who have refused their biologies, having taken away the places and positions of men, having adopted the ways of the gynocracies, then what will ever motivate females to stop their selfish, civilization-destroying choices?

when the last father is removed from the american family? when no males are allowed in college anymore? when, exactly?

her mom's advice was excellent, but should have come with the addendum that daughter made her choices fifteen years before, and now expecting everything to be magically Made Wonderful For Her isnt possible, nor desirable . . . even in kultures catering specifically and solely to females

the only actual social agency that males in the west have, is the choice whether to enter into "relationships" with females; everything else has been decided by the Fempire

as complaints continue from the women of the west's gynarchies, we can look for collective coercions to deprive males of that last remaining autonomy

currently, the Gynogulag is content with endless anti-male "laws," mass propaganda, shaming of males, etc -- but as females become more desperate, the Sisterhood will have to create even more statutes to punish men for not having "relationships" with them

the alternative would be admitting that feminism is evil, our matriarchies are malevolent, and women (and their male enablers) have wrecked God's second Eden . . . largely out of greed, powerlust, vengeance, envy and spite

and that admission aint gonna happen

Anonymous said...

Don't worry girl, there is nothing wrong with you that isn’t wrong with everyone else. The fact that you are here in these anti-feminist regions makes you a much better catch than most women out there. Thousands of guys would die to be with a chaste righteous woman. Just be willing to go out with anyone multiple times, they may grow on you, convert to Christianity, grow a pair of nuts. Never compromise your commitments, make the bastards work for your love. Go for it. You should see some of the happily married beasts at my church. They didn’t let their stupidity, ugliness or obese repulsiveness get in the way of them landing a man. There is no way an in shape woman with waist long hair can’t do the same. Stop sitting around the house with a sanctimonious self-pity. You aren’t going to make it through life without some huge sins and royal screw ups. Go embarrass yourself. What you have been doing is impossible and will continue to make you miserable. Go get some of that male attention you deserve.

Batman said...

Go on the internet. I know a decent guy who flew all the way to India to meet a girl he met on catholicmatch.com also the internet will mitigate your timidity somewhat

gh said...

"make the bastards work for your love" sounds like the stupidest thing to do at this point

Joe Blow said...

>>>Jimmy Said: I'm a guy who done this to meet girls. Let me tell you, it didn't work for me.

My good man, I'm telling her to go do this stuff and be friendly, not to go there to hang out with her gal pal and scowl at single guys.

If you're a guy and join a bike club or rock climbing club to meet girls, you're shopping in the wrong aisle. Those places are sausage parties. If you're a girl, it may work out for you b/c of the ratio of men to women.

enna said...

Thank you for this, Vox, Deti, and all the constructive commenters. I'm in a similar situation (27, Christian, virgin, completely oblivious to sexual signals) and while I've been working on girl game, sending IOIs, and meeting men, I still haven't figured out *where* to meet single, potentially Christian men. I figured a shooting range, but I never thought about martial arts or fencing. Will find out about these in my area posthaste.

Speaking of a manosphere dating site...I'm in the Pacific Northwest. ;D

Josh said...

To meet guys:

Wear a feminine dress that shows a little cleavage, makeup, etc. Go to a bar or coffee shop. Smile and be approachable.

The end.

Yep said...

If you're a guy and join a bike club or rock climbing club to meet girls, you're shopping in the wrong aisle. Those places are sausage parties.

If you're a guy, take a yoga class.

gh said...

Enna and MA should put their pictures up if there were an androsphere dating site it should require women to give consent to a agreement that stipulates certain behaviors and attitudes in the event a relationship develops such as subjection to the man, modesty in dress and behavior. That might filter out a few more feminists

Josh said...

it should require women to give consent to a agreement that stipulates certain behaviors and attitudes in the event a relationship develops such as subjection to the man, modesty in dress and behavior.

The BETA is strong with this one.

gh said...

What does that acronym stand for?

enna said...

gh,

BETA generally indicates a Roissy Beta, to differentiate from a Beta in Vox's more nuanced hierarchy.

Peggy said...

Professional Christian counseling helped me a lot with my extreme shyness and other issues. I had a lot to work on with my relationship with God, first of all; there was no way to fix everything else without dealing with that first. Then we worked on many other things, including conversational skills and building a network of friends. Not long after finishing counseling, an old acquaintance and I started to reconsider each other as potential mates, and everything went surprisingly smoothly toward marriage from there.

The Great and Powerful Oz said...

Learn to dress well. Don't show a lot of skin, but pick longer flowing designs. Do make sure they have a well defined waist, waist/hip ratio is hard wired into men. Instead of wearing low cut blouses, go for the high necked look.

Learn to move gracefully (modelling/acting lessons or something like aikido). Smile. Smile even when nobody is looking. Make a habit out of smiling all the time.

Go take an Appleseed class and learn how to shoot a rifle well. Lots of the folks who show up are conservative and Christian. One of the best instructors I know is a young lady who is very active with her church.

If there's a TechShop in your area, join and build something. Besides the typical manly machine tools, they also have lots of high end sewing equipment.

Don't forget to smile.

You may want to raise your age limit. Somebody over 45 who really wants a family (like me) would be a good catch, particularly someone who works out regularly and is in better shape than the average 30 year old.

I don't think much of meeting someone in church, despite the fact that I'm a part time seminary student. About the only faith that still takes family seriously is Mormanism.

Jimmy said...

@Joe Blow:

I joined hiking clubs where over half the participants are women/girls. We can certainly say that women will "scowl at single guys" as that has happened.

Will a guy have better result at a yoga club? I really don't recommend it. I joined dance clubs (social/ballroom dance) and jazzercise type classes where most women attend. They are not worthwhile for men to join to meet women. Men look silly and probably gay.

It is better for both men and women to join an event where they are primed for romance or dating. Everyone know it is a meat market. It gets the pretence out of the way. That's why I think Online dating, speed dating, and blind/arranged dates works best. Less time wasting. It is just hard to meet someone on a chance meeting. Most people are NOT good at the casual random introduction. People do better with formal introductions.

MrGreenMan said...

If her church is not 50/50 male-female or more skewed male, find a church that is.

Assuming she now has a church where there are single men in their 30s, and it's not a feminist church, ask the elders (who should be all male) to make the match. They will go tell the 30-something guys in turn that you are available. Understand, if you get the 30-something guys who have never had a relationship before, they are going to assume you're a reformed slut, so making clear you aren't will make it pretty easy to get the marriage-minded among them. You want a 60- or 70-something church elder as the go between.

And be prepared that you will be marrying outside your ethnic group.

Fred Mok said...

I'm impressed by the quality advice in this post and in the comments. The main thing is she wants to marry a Christian man. There are pockets in major metro areas where church attendance among men under 40 is higher. Asian American male church attendance in the San Francisco bay area is quite high (programmers/engineers) relative to what I hear about the rest of the county. The alpha count among church attenders may be low but there are quality Christian men here, as long as your expectations are realistic.

gh said...

So just plain beta then. I'm ok with that since I make a lot of money.

Anonymous said...

buy a big gun. go to the range.

be able to blast out the center of your target at 15m or more.

that's hot as hell to see a woman do that.

frenchy

Retrenched said...

There are more than a few women like AM who get lost in the shuffle due to hookup culture and its self-reinforcing nature.

Basically, when women are quick to put out, men become more reluctant to invest in women, and when more men become reluctant to invest in women, women are quicker to put out.

It makes it hard for people who don't want to participate (or cannot participate) in the hookup culture to meet people and form serious relationships with them. Which is bad for LTR-minded people of both sexes, really.

A said...

This shouldn't be that difficult. She said she exercises. Join a gym and lift weights where all the men are (don't hide in the cardio area), make eye contact and smile and some of them should approach, especially since lifting tends to make men more aggressive and confident.

Anonymous said...

29yo male, married 4.5 years, Christian, decent SMV

1) Is she limiting herself to Indian men?
2) If the answer to #1 is No - how can the other 95%+ of the male population tell? I have seen very few (if any) Indian+other couples.
3) Opportunities to meet people:
a) what hobbies and/or community-facing ministries does she like?
b) are there groups she can join for that? ie shooting, tai chi, art, basket-weaving, whatever.
c) pick 1-2 interesting skills/hobbies and go learn to do them in a group setting (check your local rec center).
4) Spend no more than 6 hours per week watching the TV.

Cail Corishev said...

Consider this: she's gotten offers for dates right here in this very thread, sight unseen. Guys, ask yourself, when was the last time you got propositioned by a woman because of something you wrote about yourself on a blog somewhere? And we're still taking this "some good women just can't find a man nowhere nohow" idea seriously?

Anonymous said...

Ah, Cail,
but nobody told her how to get up with them.

Mike M. said...

Well, part of Girl Game IS indicating that you're available and taking applications. :-)

The One said...

If you are limiting yourself to Indian men only and are Christian, that might be the problem. Most Indian men are not Christian. I live in an Indian community and go to a church with a Indian priest and only one Indian family comes out of 80+

Anonymous said...

Lolzlozzz.

Anonymous said...

Salsa

JRL said...

If you're a guy, take a yoga class.

I know, right?

Seriously, I did this a few weeks ago. The good: obvious. The bad: I got put right up in front of class. The ugly: the old lady next to me kept farting...

Stride Rite said...

Assuming you're not leaving anything out - like a wart on your nose and rank body odor: start by trimming your hair and getting a modern 'do. Men generally don't like the Crystal Gayle look.

Dress in a way that shows off your best assets. You don't have to look like a slut. But display the goods. A nice ass in a pair of office slacks gets the guys talking.

Your shyness is coming off as coldness. Men don't want to work that hard to open you up - no pun intended. Upgrade your conversation skills.

Purposefully find the good qualities in the men you interact with. Most women immediately look for disqualifiers. Fives thru sevens who do this end up in their 30s, still disqualifying men and wondering why they are alone. Many are in therapy - I know some of them. They don't understand their value doesn't rise to the level of the all-star lover they dream about.





Nah said...

buy a big gun. go to the range.

be able to blast out the center of your target at 15m or more.


Nah. It is loud as hell and everyone is wearing ear protection. This is worse than a noisy nightclub as a place to approach women.

Besides, when I go to the range I want to shoot with my buddies, not hit on women.

SarahsDaughter said...

Cail - thread winner.

whatever said...

Ha!

She can have her pick of the litter. A first rate guy and he will be desperately loyal to her for the rest of his life.

The only question is, can she control the fact that she is a crazy American b*tch? Can she? Of course not!

But if she could, the answer is simple. There are men out there right now, who thanks to the +20% unemployment rate, are currently unemployed. College-educated, prior making +$70,000 a year, ten years on the job experience men. Top tier guys. She shouldn't pay any attention to any man who made less than +$60,000 dollars a year before job loss. Probably way higher actually. Think of a number!

And they have been immediately abandoned by the women in their lives as "loser". She can prove right now that she is a loyal woman and will stick with her man through thick and thin.

But. That would mean not being a crazy American b*tch. So we all know that isn't going to happen.

Retrenched said...

@ Cail

Yep. Generally, a single woman is single because she doesn't like her options, while a single man is single because he doesn't have any options.

Hermit said...

AM mentioned there are no available men at her church. As an introverted young military man, moving into a navy town with no money, and no friends, I attempted to attend a congregation of the denomination I had grown up with. It was small and there weren't any available females (except one unattractive one that was still in high school).
I wound up at an Assembly of God church, which I mostly found distasteful, but had a large youth/young-adult event every Wednesday night (on the order of hundreds of people). The only plus sides to this was that there was a large selection of young available women, and most at least pretended to be open to Christianity.
I was there 6 months, had mostly given up on finding someone, but still open and looking, before I found my wife. The night I met her was the last time I attended, and I slowly introduced her to the denomination I grew up with, and now currently attend.

TL:DR: AM might want to try a different congregation for searching out a man.

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taterearl said...

And we're still taking this "some good women just can't find a man nowhere nohow" idea seriously?

Nope...but I do take the "hypergamy doesn't care about (blank)" idea seriously.

The easiest way for a man to rid himself of singledom...be a leader, for a woman...submit to a good man. But it seems like your modern American woman wants a leader but still keep the right to not submit to him.

MinnesotaSmith said...

The woman in the OP is 32? And still unmarried, but wants to have a family? Were I still in the marriage market, and considering her as a wife, this is what I'd tell her:
"We can get married and have children together, as long as you only have ONE child that is yours genetically, and the rest (at least 2 more) are from egg donors in their early twenties."

Doom said...

Nothing is guaranteed. Simply, she was taught wrongly and sought after her own care most likely, but by her own hands.

At this point, if she wants a real chance? First, keep her morals in tact. No one wants a slut, and as things stand, if I sleep with a woman before marriage I check her right off the list, even in my predicament. Then seek marriage as if it were her career. Even a fool knows you cannot serve two masters, choose which you want. Pretend, or more, that she has no other prospects. If she continues to engage her career, she will have little left for a search for a husband, and the type of husband will be limited. Men who marry don't marry to have an extra paycheck, but to have a family.

Past 30? For a woman, simply, that is old. Children? Really old. If she wants to do something even more fruitful? Talk to school girls about her predicament. Try to get the next generation from following in her footsteps.

rycamor said...

Past 30? For a woman, simply, that is old. Children? Really old. If she wants to do something even more fruitful? Talk to school girls about her predicament. Try to get the next generation from following in her footsteps.

I realize you guys here are trying to counteract all the feminist idiocy, but this is ridiculous. 30 is not "really old" for having children. Yes, there is an elevated risk for the average woman, but it is *easy* to be above average these days just by good nutrition and exercise. Also, people do have differing longevity. Wife and I both come from families who live well into their 90s. She was 31 when we married, 33 when our first was born, 41 when our 3rd was born, and we're not sure we're done yet. We're leaving that up to God. Our kids are extremely healthy, well above average in just about everything.

Do I wish I had married her earlier? You bet, but I was an idiot. We could have had 8 kids by now. Still, nothing wrong with fully playing the hand you have when you come to your senses. It ain't over 'til it's over.

Doom said...

rycamor,

Yes, 30, for a woman, is old. Her prospects for starting a family, even the viability of her fertility, are shot to shit. There is a chance, but it's an outside one. You are a cruel man.

If you want to believe the average woman will and does take above average care, and just assume they are all able to do so even if it is their will, and praying they aren't all but forced to have a c-section or such (which often ends fertility) you have another thing coming. While I am glad you have some modicum of minor success, three children is rather slim in the genetic survival game, and a woman over forty has a huge risk with pregnancy, I wouldn't want to call you the poster family for familial or societal salvation. I would call you lucky to be average in a society that is bearing just enough children to slow it's descent into irrelevance, defeat, and non-existence.

My grandmother and grandfather married late, in her (their) 30's, too. She ended up with nine children. So, it is possible. And that would be more like it. But that is pushing things. I think it is unkind of you to provide more than grim hope for this woman, as things stand. Cruel man indeed. Remember, she hasn't even FOUND a husband!

rycamor said...

Yes, I'm a cruel man. Bad bad bad. For suggesting to play the hand you're dealt in the best way possible.

Idiot.

Yes, the poor girl should just give up on having a husband, get her tubes tied now, buy 8 cats, and live on powdered milk and tea biscuits the rest of her life.

I'm assuming nothing, just explaining the possibilities realistically. Read my post again for comprehension. There is ideal, and then there is making the best out of what is not ideal, rather than just giving up and bowing out. Yes, this involves discipline and risk. If our OP here is not interested in making the best out of her situation, that's her problem, but good is still possible.

Nah said...

What rycamor said.

Ignore Doom.

rycamor said...

Don't ignore Doom completely. Notice in his response to me he already backed down from "really old" to just "old", and then went on to anecdotally confirm my point with his grandparents' story. Heh.

rycamor said...

And as a further anecdote while we're on the topic. When my wife and I married (and, BTW, I had younger prospects at my disposal), we felt really bad for this single woman we knew who helped with the wedding (amazing hairdresser). She was 34 when we married, and had spend the past decade in this on-again/off-again relationship with a Christian alpha-sigma dude who was just... messed up in the head. He could never bring himself to commit to her, but could never quite let her go. Tortured intellectual, yada, yada... She would leave him, and then he would reel her back in for more.

Now my feeling at the time was that her best was past, and she should just give up on the white picket fence dream, maybe meet some older widower with teenage kids and be content with being a stepmother. But my wife, as was her wont, prayed with her and gave her the Dobson book "Love for a Lifetime." I don't know yet about the value of this book for men, but it really does seem to help cure women of that fatal level of hypergamy that prevents them from good, stable relationships.

Now, she was a statuesque Italian, very attractive for her age. Next thing we knew, she had met the perfect guy for her. A few years older, established with a very profitable plumbing business, and a total Adonis of Italian masculinity. Swept her off her feet, they married and she moved into his Florida waterfront house. They took the risk and ended up with two children whom she is now homeschooling.

It may be late, but don't make it any later by being preemptively negative. Carpe diem.

cheddarman said...

AM,

I know a little bit about your culture, and my advice is given accordingly.

Have you let other women know that you are available and want to get married?

You could leverage your connections in the Indian community or your church if you are open to marrying an American.

You can help deal with your shyness by meeting him in the context of family/cultural activities, Like having a tea time or watching a cricket match, Bollywood movie, etc. at the home of a friend or relative.

Less pressure on you and him, and more of a traditional setting where your virtues shine.

If he sees you interacting with children in a positive way, that is also good.

Get feedback from other men/married women on what they think of him, use that to help your decision making process and keep your hypergamy in check.

If you have good relations with your parents and they are in the same city, involve them as well. You get extra points for being traditionally and family minded.

I have met a number of Indian men over the years in my career, they like/married traditionally minded women from India. If you can market yourself in that manner, i think it will help you.

Sincerely

cheddarman


Doom said...

Ancient. Little chance. Whole nations are beginning to call women who are over 30 and unmarried what they are. Various names, but old maid is what they all mean. You are such troglodytes. By the way, grandmother was an exception, to point out the rule. Such women don't even exist now. Birthing a child a year for a decade (two died) is way too much for a female population which whines about spitting out two babies in their lifetime.

I... must be striking nerves though. Ah... you... please me. It is required for people to wake the fuck up, about this and many other things. Although if "idiot" is the best you can do, I have more sympathy for you than I first had, even more than your comments had implied until then as well. Need a hanky? Get it yourself.

Yeah, don't kill her with kindness, tell her the truth and what she can do. Babying her is what got her to this predicament. She has choices, if the likelihood is dire.

Anonymous said...

I am astounded no one has suggested a "day game wingman".

Ask a male friend to spend a few afternoons with you visiting both the coffee shop bookstore type places (where people look for people) and the shooting range type places (where men spend time).

Since you are shy, your male friend's job is to initiate conversations with other men. You join in as best you can. When the conversation is done, if you would be willing to go on a date with the man you just met say, "You are nice to talk to. Call me some time," and share your phone number.

As others have mentioned, go on lots of first dates. Feel free to say early on something like, "As a first impression I do not think you are my type, but you are nice to talk to and practicing dating is fun. Thank you very much for this date."

You'll probably be doing a favor for the men you go on one date with, who like you are probably shy and need practice dating. And you most likely will get free meals. ;-)

AXCrom said...

Listen to Cheddarman at March 5, 2013 0934. This is solid advice and will be helpful if you heed it. If you cut your hair, make sure you keep it well beyond shoulder length. Smile more. On Vox's other site the men were given simple advice, essentially the woman that men want to marry is cute, and happy. That's it. I have been happily married for a long time to a pretty and happy woman so I can attest to this. Here's the thing, when I walk into the room and she sees me, she normally smiles. The rest just follows.

rycamor said...

Take your meds, Doom. I have no need to hold out false hope to this woman I've never met. I just call 'em as I see 'em.

Desert Cat said...

start by trimming your hair and getting a modern 'do. Men generally don't like the Crystal Gayle look.

Do not listen to this terrible advice! Your long hair is a tremendous asset and is appealing to far more men than not.

RC said...

There are a lot of good Christian men who have been thrown into the divorce court's maw through absolutely no choice of their own other than marrying poorly. At 30+ it's time to start looking at this demographic. I can think of a dozen men off the top of my head that would be thrilled to meet AM.

ray said...

"... must be striking nerves though"


obviously

feminism and psuedo-legal matriarchy over-ran your cultures decades ago, and here are all the geniuses, encouraging a 32-year-old spinster to continue in her rebellions

a whole thread of boyos who just cant WAIT to support the darling damsel in her iniquity, and to remove from her the consequences of her own wrong choices, so tremendously harmful to others

under legal and extra-legal coercion, their Precious Angel Daughters (PADs) have taken most of the scholarships, college seats, and jobs, forcing their betters (men) out, and deriding and criminalizing them in the process, to cover their own iniquity

now at age 32, or 35, or 44 their PADs are Ready for Relationships (marriage) and WHERE exactly are the pundit geniuses gonna find the well-established, economically-secure, solid men to marry and "relate" to their PAD?

from more emasculates in their emasculated "churches"? lol year i see how those "relationships" work out!

the gynarchies could never have been set-up (much less have conquered) without the fathers of PADs . . . women collectively, plus the elites, wouldnt have been enough

prior to full-on feminism, fathers of girls had to support them, often lifelong, or until a suitable husband could be located, upon which he could pawn off his burden

but in our feminist nations, the State AND "churches" are surrogate-daddies for their PADs, and suddenly all responsibility is off daddy . . . no need to marry the girl off in her teens, when she is going to be empowered, enriched, obeyed, financed, and feted her entire life by our gynarchic StateChurches

Satan has their backs covered! lol

if she wants to have a Great Career, StateChurch is 100 percent behind her, shoving men outta the way so she can be advantaged over them from birth

then when she and the millions of other PADs have permanently excluded the men (read: potential husbands and fathers who now have that potential no longer) from self-supporting lives, why Pretty Little PAD starts shopping for Relationships and Marriage . . . in her thirties, fifteen years after her prime

PAD daddies and mommies LOVE this arrangement, StateChurch LOVES this arrangement, the Girls LOVE this arrangement

all necessity to marry young, and for life, has been artifically removed, and she and daddy and mommy can spend the resources they'd have needed to ensure her survival on . . . themselves

little boys without fathers HATE this arrangement, God HATES this arrangement, but as this list proves, the almighty people led by PAD Dads LOVE it (until it inevitably collapses, then they look to blame others)

puh tooey

Desert Cat said...

IOW "cry me a river". yeah...

I have a certain amount of sympathy however, as I was incredibly shy and socially awkward growing up. It took a lot of life, a lot of pushing the boundaries of discomfort to become the (relatively) chatty flirt that I am now. But 32 is not too late to turn that boat around. I was still pretty bad at 32.

I'll echo Vox's advice. You have to go looking for them where they're found. Had I, in my shy and awkward years, gained the attention of an equally shy and awkward girl who, inexplicably, seemed to like me and like spending time with me, I'd have been enraptured.

And dear, do try to not be very picky. The ones in your league will have their flaws. Pull the best mutt from the litter and stick with him. You will probably be pleasantly surprised in time.

Desert Cat said...

Ok, I went back and read that link from the very first post in this thread. AM, if you are still reading here, and if you did not copy/paste/read, do so now.

Here it is again, all hot and clickable for ya:
Girl Game: Why it's not hopeless.

Doom said...

Ray?

God loves a man who says it straight, even if he happens to not believe in God. Whatever the case, preach on. They need to hear it, especially if it hurts. No pain, no marriage.

Though I am sort of with... So-and-whozitzs who suggested that widows not seek remarriage. And old maids fit in that category, mostly, unless they help save a male old maid and have children. The wisdom was to keep the infertile from sipping off the fertile prospect pool.

*bam*

tron3dfx said...

I haven't read all 110 comments, so might be redundant...

Perhaps try www.christianmingle.com ? Couldn't hurt...and waist length hair, yikes, cut that to at least the middle of the back!

ray said...

God loves a man who says it straight, even if he happens to not believe in God


Doom --

the LORD will find, and enter, a man who thirsts after the truth, and defends it, regardless of what the deluded goofball "believes"

heck 25 years ago i "believed" about every type of nonsense imaginable, all the lies of babylon

God is aware that the nature of this planet is Deception, and that it's inhabitants are fixed likewise

but no matter the profession of belief, or of Godliness, the LORD will have nothing to do with a man who places his material and psychological comfort ahead of the obvious truth

and that describes western men to a T, and the result of their cowardice and complicity is everywhere

Jesus stated, not bragged, that he embodied the TRUTH, that he is the incarnation of TRUTH, and he was correct and that's a big part of the reason why he's my guy

that's the leader i demand, have no intention of settling for anybody less, if anybody less attempts to rule over me they will get some

cheers

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