Sunday, February 17, 2013

Alpha Mail: no excuses

BR poses a question:
Hello hello!  Traveled to Alpha Game by way of Dr. Helen.  I'm a pretty solid Beta/Delta, que sera, but looking to improve my Game.  So here's my question of the day: Can you use a woman's greater knowledge and expertise in a subject to reel her in, or is this a violation of Core Maxim XII "Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses"?

For example: Suppose you're a carpenter as a side hobby business.  You've got a commission for some cabinets from someone who doesn't know squat about interior design, they just want you "to make them look good".  You don't know squat about interior design either, but let's say you've got a woman on the line who does style herself an interior designer.  Maybe you've gone out before, but not recently.  Could you use that as an excuse to get her to have drinks with you?  "Hey, I got this project, but I'd like to get your opinion on it.  How about we get together for drinks, I'll show you some of my sketches, and you give me your thoughts on them?"
Two things occur to me.  First, there is a clear problem in that BR is thinking in terms of excuses.  His Deltatude is revealed by the way in which he is concealing both his true purpose as well as his interest in her.  This is an intrinsically BETA mindset; he doesn't appear to believe his interest is justified of its own accord or that it will be welcomed by her.

And if it isn't and it won't be, what is the point?  If she's not at least somewhat interested already, how is more exposure to that in which she clearly isn't interested going to help?  I think it is a bad idea to get back in touch with anyone, male or female, under false pretenses.

Second, encouraging women to talk about their interests and perceived strengths and skills is always a winner, if only for the fact that if she is talking, he isn't sabotaging himself.  If you're not fascinating yourself, the next best thing is to be able to convince a woman that she is fascinating.

10 comments:

taterearl said...

This is an example of what BR should say...

"Hey you are interesting. I'm going to be at such and such place at such and such time. You should join me for drinks."

Nothing false about those pretenses. Plus if she does agree and shows up...you can take the conversation to wherever you want.

Daniel said...

The woman already decided if he was worthy within 180 seconds of meeting him. Dancing around is just going to make him look, at best, awkward.

It isn't a bad idea, though, to invite her (if she's any good at what she does) to join the project - on its own merits, but only if the man isn't sure that he wants to get into a relationship with her. So this case wouldn't be a good one for that. He already is confounding the situation.

Just ask her out. You can talk about your carpentry project and design issues on the evening out, once your interest (and hers, for accepting) are established.

ryan said...

If she thinks you're a dweeb, and you get her to spend time with you in hopes that she will gain some benefit (consulting fees, work, etc) she will perhaps stick around long enough to milk you for whatever monetary gain there is, and then she will bang the hell out of
the cute carpenter who works with you and tell you all the juicy details.

And you can pay her.

You need a better plan.

ray said...

"If you're not fascinating yourself, the next best thing is to be able to convince a woman that she is fascinating."

yeah, that's great advice

lucky we have Experienced Gamers around to give guys great advice about women!

convince a women that she is fascinating, altho she is not, the same way guys are supposed to convince themselves they are alphas -- whatever that is -- altho they are not

then everybody's running around with their heads full of deceptions about who they really are, yep that'll result in a wonderful world all rightee lol

lets see, once i've convinced some female that she's fascinating -- just like teevee, the movies, government, schools, the media, and everybody else has been telling her all her life -- then she's even more solipsistic and artifically empowered than she was when i met her

NOW, i have to keep feeding the "fascinatingness" that i've just confirmed in her, falsely . . . and when i'm done, the NEXT guy (not to mention the planet) has to deal with her artificially overinfltaed ego, and all the woes thereto

why dont you guys just stick to what you know? why does everybody have to give "advice" about stuff they dont know?

everybody gotta be The Expert

Mystery Man said...

convince a women that she is fascinating, altho she is not, the same way guys are supposed to convince themselves they are alphas -- whatever that is -- altho they are not

Better idea: Yawn in the bitch's face every time she opens her mouth. Then rip off your pants and demand she blow you, because she's not good for anything else.

That'll get results, yep.

Jimmy said...

The responses missed the point. You cannot change the frame that has been setup. You friendzoned yourself. Inviting a woman to drinks to discuss work is the wrong approach. She will only think of you as a client or advisor at best. Never a love interest.

BR said...

BR here. First, thanks for the advice. It answers the question, though my example was poorly worded. I was attempting to keep the e-mail short. I shouldn't have used the word "excuse". My intent was to ask the woman out straight up, and use the need for her advice as a way to bond.

So, the asking would be more like this: Call woman, after some conversation, mentioning the project as fodder, "So what do you say we get together Friday for drinks? Great. Let's go with Awesome Wine Bar X, they just switched up the menu so they'll be some new stuff to try. Sure, I'll pick you up at 8. Oh hey, you're pretty good with interior decorating, right? Yeah, I thought so. You know I don't have the eye for it. Well look, this client doesn't know what they want either, they're trusting me to make it look good. I did up some sketches already, but it'd be great to get your thoughts. How about I bring them along, we can talk about it, and you can give me some ideas to improve the designs?"

So not an excuse to get together, but an excuse to engage her in conversation about things she enjoys besides simply "So tell me about your hobbies". It lets me engage her in conversation, as opposed to her just speaking.

I basically asked the wrong question, though I got the answer to the one I needed answered. Reading your answer, the question I was trying to ask was "Maxim XII says to downplay weaknesses, but could you use a weakness you have that is a strength of the woman's as a way of engaging her in conversation that builds rapport?"

The answer appears to be "Yes." Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Jimmy said...

@BR: This will depend on how much passion she has for the subject. If she views her work as merely work, you have miscalculated. It might be safer to deal with the softer subjects.

Discussing work gets to her logical mind. Do you want to go there? Its hard to pull the switch from logic to passion. She might not be passionate about her subject although I'm sure women just love interior design.

In discussing hobbies, it is a bit useless if you don't have the same interests. It will show. I don't think women want to listen to your opinion anyways. She will take the floor and you'll just have to listen. Try not to yawn. If you do love the subject, don't ever try to takeover the subject. It is just "rude". It will count against you when you hog the conversation.

Best to let the conversation be free form. Let it go to where it naturally takes you and where you want to go.

Jimmy said...

"Maxim XII says to downplay weaknesses, but could you use a weakness you have that is a strength of the woman's as a way of engaging her in conversation that builds rapport?"

Answer is No. I would not try this. Since dating relies absolutely on first impressions, stay away from subjects that focus on your weaknesses relatively to the strengths of a woman. In fact, you want to reverse it. Focus on your strengths and let her know her weaknesses. This is intentional.

Nate said...

" If you're not fascinating yourself, the next best thing is to be able to convince a woman that she is fascinating."

And they ALL think they are fascinating. So you have that whole confirmation bias thing going for you.

Let her talk.

Beta's talk themselves out of bed with a woman. Women will talk themselves into bed with a beta... unless he is to stupid to shut up.

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