Thursday, January 24, 2013

Lying and the long-term consequences

The regret-filled woman Susan mentioned isn't the only one to come to regret lying about her sexual history:
An unfaithful wife has been jailed for two years - almost a decade after she cried rape just to hide a one-night stand from her husband.  Gaynor Cooke, 41, had told police she was violently attacked by a taxi driver to cover up her fling with him, and her former lover was due to stand trial next month.

No-one was arrested in 2003 because a forensic sample taken from her at the time failed to find a similar profile on the national DNA database.

But when in 2011 the man, who she claimed was a stranger, was detained for a minor offence his DNA threw up a match.
The truth doesn't always come out, but it comes out often enough that it simply isn't worth the risk.  And it often comes out in unexpected, totally unpredictable ways that aren't usually at a particularly convenient time.  If you did it, just own up to it.  It's not just the right thing to do, it's the safe and responsible thing to do.

22 comments:

swiftfoxmark2 said...

Of course, in another country, it would be rape because she regretted it after the fact...

Anonymous said...

I like the comments...this one says it all:

I would like to know how long he would of got if convicted.......That should then be her sentence.

- John KK FormallyofUK , kilkenny, Ireland, 17/1/2013 16:36

of course, there are the usual suspects including the white knights...they are always the worst.

- Apollyon

Pepper said...

Can we draw a connection between woman's propensity to lie to cover up her indiscretions and her natural inclination for a permanent mate? I can't quite figure out why women would stray and then cover it up if they didn't need men. Then I have to ask, if a woman needs a man so much, why cheat on him? Why do the one thing guaranteed to lose him if you don't want to lose him?

OCS said...

@Pepper - Hypergamy with the assistance of its helpmeet--the Hamster.

Aeoli Pera said...

Pepper,

A woman's natural inclination is not for a permanent mate. Her natural impulse is hypergamy, which when unmitigated manifests as serial monogamy and not simple monogamy.

Google "Dalrock serial monogamy" if you're unfamiliar with the term.

This is not to say that a woman doesn't naturally pair bond with her sexual partner, but that's a different phenomenon.

See "Athol Kay vasopressin oxytocin dopamine" for more on that. (I think he's getting his information from Helen Fisher.)

Aeoli Pera said...

of course, there are the usual suspects including the white knights...they are always the worst.

Yeah. Breed 'em out, say I.

Anonymous said...

It's an absolute travesty that the sentence is only two years.

Pepper said...

Aeoli Pera,

It seems as if Dalrock is defining marriage as the Bible does - one man, one woman for life. How can Christians even engage in conversations about marriage and infidelity with people who are not professing Christians and therefore may define marriage differently? Aren't we just asking questions that can't be answered, or maybe throwing standards onto people who perhaps don't want to live by them? If a Christian wife is cheating on her Christian husband, they appeal to their local church, pastor, priest, etc. and work from there. How can Christians even make any meaningful conclusions about what people outside the church do? Athol Kay seems to approach these challenges from a biological perspective. Maybe this conversation is confused by an audience of people with mixed values?

Toby Temple said...

Pepper,

We simply try to convert them to Christianity as part of our call to evangelize.

As for the marriage definition, we appeal to reason and historical evidence to convince non-believers on what marriage is.

Athol simply provides a practical approach for men to maintain a marriage: gaming your wife.

kh123 said...

Usually, a nation is lauded for some monumental achievement, like space exploration or a medical breakthrough for a debilitating disease. In this case, Britain holds a woman accountable for her actions. C'est ce vraiment bien.

Shimshon said...

But...but...women NEVER lie about something as serious as rape! They always tell the truth. They're perfect snowflakes.

heh heh heh said...

This just shows that the British legal system is obviously biased against women and needs to be reformed to ensure greater equality.

Jacob Ian Stalk said...

Is it possible for women to do the right thing on their own? If the current rape laws are anything to go by, women are incapable of the kind of moral autonomy required both to determine what's right and to act on it spontaneously. If 'right' is defined by what everyone else does, how can we expect women to do the right thing, ever?

Perhaps women love the legal profession so much because it gives the hamster the illusion of controlling its own wheel.

Daniel said...

Christians and therefore may define marriage differently?

It ain't that different, Pepper. Want to talk about divorce to an unbeliever? There's a pretty good model here.

Trust said...

My daughter was in the hospital last week, and we were asked questions about family medical history. We told them she was adopted and what we knew about the birthmother's family medical history. We also told them we knew nothing of the biological father.

This post about lies made me wonder about children at risk because their mothers lie about paternity and then proceed to give doctors false information about paternal medical history.

Another lie that could cause problems at a most inconvenient time.

Pepper said...

Aeoli Pera,

Thanks for recommending those articles. Obviously I didn't understand them at first. Like every other action in life promiscuity has consequences, in this case diminished capacity to bond with a life partner. John Van Epp also covers this topic pretty well in his books/teaching videos. Here is a rhetorical rabbit for you - it takes 5 different sources and 3 different languages...but finally she gets it!

MaMu1977 said...

@Trust

Try working with paediatric oncologists for a year.
100+ cases of leukemia, 9 cases in which the father and child learned that they weren't related by blood after bone marrow compatibility testing, 6 children dead with their last though being, "I wouldn't be dying right now if Mommy wasn't a stupid slut."(3 cases in which Mommy was able to *find* the real father. Those children lived.)

Best example, from my time at the clinic: two boys arrive in their new country within days of each other. Both boys, a few months after meeting, develop leukemia. Boy #1 receives marrow from his father. Boy #2 learns that his real father is "some guy I met when your Dad was in Saudi Arabia". Boy #2 gets to lie in a hospital bed and watch as Boy #1 gets better (from chemotherapy to transplant to therapy to bringing Boy #2 a soccer trophy.) Then, Boy #2 dies.

To this day, I believe in mandatory paternity testing at birth.

Trust said...

MaMu1977 said... To this day, I believe in mandatory paternity testing at birth.
________

Those stories are horrible, and indefensable. It is amazing to me how such "kind and caring" women don't think twice about hurting even their own children to cover their own butts.

I do disagree with you about mandatory paternity testing, though. Not that I disagree with the purpose. I just don't want to invite government in any more than it is... HOWEVER...

I am all for a father having the RIGHT, not the requirement, to a paternity test before being forced to pay child support or having his name involuntarily put on a birth certificate. That keeps the government out of the delivery rooms, while balancing the rights of men not to be cuckholded.

Best,
Trust

chris said...

@MaMu1977

You should write a movie script based on those stories. In an age were the arts are continually trying to one-up each other in being counter-intuitive and edgy I think such a script would take the cake.

Aeoli Pera said...

It seems as if Dalrock is defining marriage as the Bible does - one man, one woman for life. How can Christians even engage in conversations about marriage and infidelity with people who are not professing Christians and therefore may define marriage differently?

There's more overlap than you perceive, I expect. I think you will understand this better by reading through Alpha Game, Dalrock, and Athol Kay. Particularly Dalrock (he repeats the fundamental ideas a lot).

The only big practical problem (which Athol Kay has addressed with some frustration) is that Christians aren't supposed to divorce except in response to infidelity.

Both groups even have the same end goals in mind (reproducing a happy, functional family). After that it's merely a matter of carefully considering which methods are acceptable under which conditions.

(I can't answer questions like these with perfect confidence as they're entirely theoretical to me. But I hope this is helpful.)

Aren't we just asking questions that can't be answered, or maybe throwing standards onto people who perhaps don't want to live by them?

No. And yes, absolutely.

If a Christian wife is cheating on her Christian husband, they appeal to their local church, pastor, priest, etc. and work from there. How can Christians even make any meaningful conclusions about what people outside the church do?

I hate to say it, but I'd expect a better result if they sought help on the internet. The church as we know it is a mess.

That aside, understanding any strange culture is difficult. As Christians, we are ordered to fashion ourselves as a subculture distinct from whatever culture we happen to be in. But we can still observe the outside world from the perspective of anthropologists or evangelists or aid workers.

Athol Kay seems to approach these challenges from a biological perspective. Maybe this conversation is confused by an audience of people with mixed values?

Evolutionary psychology (Athol Kay) and Christianity (Vox Day, Dalrock, myself) are different frameworks for understanding why the world came to work the way it does. But all three are in heavy agreement about how the world works. Which is to say, penis goes in vagina and makes babby.

Thanks for recommending those articles.

My pleasure.

Here is a rhetorical rabbit for you - it takes 5 different sources and 3 different languages...but finally she gets it!

You've been paying attention. :-)

Humans are strange creatures. She'll value this small measure of truth more highly for having spent so much to obtain it. Hopefully she's acquired a taste for it. But I digress.

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