Friday, December 21, 2012

Reject the lies

A reformed involuntary celibate points out the need to reject the lies that women tell men over and over and over again:
Feminism taught me a lot throughout the 80′s and 90′s. It taught me not to question women’s sexual choices. It taught me to treat them with deference and respect. It taught me not to accost them for sex aggressively, but to treat them as human beings. It taught me that i MUST control my shallow, greedy, dangerous impulses but allow a woman the right to indulge in hers. It taught me to be nice for the sake of being nice and not expecting sex in return. To give all my emotional and platonic ability and not dare ask for intimacy in return.

It taught me everything i needed to be creepy, unattractive and doormat ready.

And it was re-enforced by EVERY woman i talked to.

What i SHOULD have been told is “hit the gym, build some muscle, guys with muscles are hawt” – “get braces now, you’ll smile a lot and we love guys with big smiles” – “go see a dermatologist, we love sexy skin on a man” – “cut off your long hair, you don’t look like a rocker, you look like a hippy. crew cuts are sexy, you’d look good in one” – “learn a skill and become good in it. become confident in it. we love confidence”

What i got instead was a constant drumming of “you’re such a good guy, just wait, someone else is out there for you” – “you don’t have to change a thing, you’re a wonderful person, just keep being yourself” – “you don’t need muscles, only jerks care about having big muscles” – “there’s nothing wrong with you, you just need to be a bit more confident that’s all” – “confidence comes from the inside, not from the outside“

Patent fucking lies all of them.
"It is better to marry than burn" writes the Apostle Paul.  There are men given the gift of celibacy.  But even the Bible points out this is a gift, and one that is not given to most men.  Women cannot tell men what they find attractive because they do not know themselves.  They only know what is considered socially acceptable to find attractive.  That is why men should not listen to them concerning these matters.  It is important to understand this.  The consequences of not doing so can be brutal.

Don't take my word for it.  Find a woman who is attracted to a man you know.  Make a list of his most attractive qualities.  Ask her what she finds attractive about that man, then compare her list with yours.  In many cases, what she says she finds attractive will not be what is actually attractive about him.

29 comments:

Stickwick said...

Women cannot tell men what they find attractive because they do not know themselves.

This is often true, but not always. I knew what I found fundamentally attractive in men by the time I was 19, but didn't often admit it, because a) it was too embarrassing; and b) I wanted to avoid hurting a nice guy's feelings by giving him an honest assessment of what made him unattractive.

permanentguest said...

As noted above, the downside of admission is too high. I've had girl friends tell me personally they loved the asshole, or that they believe in gender roles. They wouldn't dare say such in the group of girls we hung out with.

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Unending Improvement said...

A crew cut is one thing I refuse to adopt. That is pretty much THE standard guy haircut, I think I'll pass.

Daniel said...

Whoa. That dude is a bit miffed about something.

Martel said...

Hell, yeah, he's miffed. Believing you're doing the right thing your whole life only to find out you've failed a collosal shit test tends to do that to you.

The bitterness fades eventually, they say. I still feel it, and I probably will for a while. I just need to focus more on where I'm going than where I've been.

George of the Hole said...

Fornication is sin.

Paul said go find a wife, not go bang a bunch of strippers.

Weak said...

I wish I could send this missive through a time tunnel to me 20 years ago. Shame Al Gore didn't invent the internet sooner to spread the red pill mentality more freely.

Matthew Walker said...

I read that piece (at least the part you quote -- it got tl;dr after a bit) and I had an idea: Why is it that women tell guys like that they're doing everything right?

Well, when women complain, they never want a solution. They want a sympathetic ear, and they want validation. Real advice about what they're doing wrong is the last thing they ever want to hear, because that's like criticism. So I thought, maybe they're putting themselves in his shoes and trying to do the "right thing", by their female standards.

I shared that hypothesis with my girlfriend, who said "No, no, no, it's got nothing to do with that, it's because he's hitting on them!"

Er... Whaaa?!

Yeah, she thinks that any guy who asks a woman what he's doing wrong with women is, to an absolute 100% certainty, trying to hit on her, and therefore... uhhh... therefore it's necessary to give him really shitty advice, so, uhhh, why, exactly? Why give him shitty advice?

She has no idea. She couldn't even seem to understand the question. The effect, of course, is that if he is hitting on her, he'll still be desperate enough to hit on her instead of going out and getting laid with somebody else while she cleans the litterboxes in peace.

(He's asking a question about himself, and the girl thinks it's all about her and provides an answer 100% focused on herself -- solipsism, anyone?)

I think the real reason, though, is that women want very badly to believe that their judgement of male attractiveness is an evaluation of the man's true, inborn, invariant, innermost character. If men can change their "luck" by changing their behavior, that means women's hamsters and 'ginas aren't profoundly insightful judges of men's innermost essence. They're just mindlessly responding to stimuli. Stimuli they aren't even aware of.

So they need to believe that omegas have no hope, for the sake of their own self-regard. And they'll blithely help sentence somebody they consider a friend to a hell of involuntary celibacy, for the sake of their own self-regard.

taterearl said...

When you take the red pill you most likely go through the 5 stages of grief. This was just M3's anger phase. I still have bouts of anger when I start to see the terrible advice being peddled.

In fact if you make it past denial getting to acceptance happens pretty quickly.

Anonymous said...

Yep.
Rings 110% true for me.
For years I suffered. Cried every day. No one gave a shit. Men that cry are weak, I deserved my misery, you are an entitled bastard, etc.
I hated myself and wanted to die. I remember when I got my Ipod...I made a bunch of playlists, one of them was Happy Music and one was Sad Music.
Realized I had listened to Sad Music every day for 6 months straight and didn't even remember what was on Happy Music.

That's not me anymore. Rawness letters helped me out a lot. Realized I wasn't weak, just suppressing my strong side, and all I had to do was nourish and let it flourish.

Things are better now

-ADBG

Unending Improvement said...

"Well, when women complain, they never want a solution. They want a sympathetic ear, and they want validation."

Yep, and if you are still "plugged in" so to speak, you will fall for that AGAIN and AGAIN. Sometimes with the same girl if you're especially deluded.

SarahsDaughter said...

Real advice about what they're doing wrong is the last thing they ever want to hear, because that's like criticism. So I thought, maybe they're putting themselves in his shoes and trying to do the "right thing", by their female standards.

You're on to something here. A woman will get defensive in a hurry if she asks anyone (a man or a woman) what she's doing wrong and is told she should lose weight, grow out her hair, etc.

What your girlfriend said doesn't necessarily apply to all of the wrong messages men get about how to be attractive to women. Mom doesn't think he's hitting on her, yet mom will give the very same advice.

Women in relationships will also jump to the defense of a man who is being told the truth, "he's a great guy, he doesn't need to change anything, someday some woman will appreciate what a sweetie he is."

They do the same when a woman they like is criticized. Little story: A friend of mine's husband (Alpha) told me he noticed my hips have slimmed down. He went further to tell me how much skinnier his wife was than me before I lost weight. My friend chimed in, "but honey, look how tall she is compared to me!" She knows me well and knows I have no issue with what he said but still "white knighted" me.

? said...

"I wanted to avoid hurting a nice guy's feelings by giving him an honest assessment of what made him unattractive."

Was it anything he could change? If so, it would have helped him to know! Gotta be cruel to be kind, and all that.

A said...

I sometimes think women give the advice they do because they are afraid of the truth for themselves. They want to believe what is on the inside counts because they are often insecure of their own looks, and they instinctively know that men judge appearance and care little for what the inside is, let alone red pill men who know the inside is not the sugar and spice and everything nice they once were deceived into believing. If they admit to ugly, awkward, creepy, unattractive guys why they can't get a girlfriend they are directly confronting why they might be having issues of their own.

NateM said...

"I read that piece (at least the part you quote -- it got tl;dr after a bit) and I had an idea: Why is it that women tell guys like that they're doing everything right? "

BEcause that's what women do to other women, and that's the category they put the LJBF guys in. When women are talking with other women, they won't ever tell them those obvious things like 'you need to lose weight/dress better' because they want to spare that friends feelings, unlike guys who will usually tell it like it is to other guys. They want to spare the guys feelings from telling him the truth, not usually for malicious reasons (though some women do torpedo friends for personal reasons) but because they are conditioned not to be the brutally honest with each other. And unfortunately for LJBF guy, he falls in that category. She has no interest in seeing him improved because she doesn't have any interest in him in the first place.

rycamor said...

It's ironic, but while women will answer a direct plea for help with the wrong advice, if a young man learns to listen (non-judgmentally) without asking questions, he will often get all the hints he needs. Especially from older women.

At one of my jobs as a teenager I was sitting in the cafeteria with two somewhat attractive women in their 30s (one was on her 2nd or 3rd marriage), commiserating about their men and the troubles they put them through. Jail, violence, drinking, drugs, etc... They went back and forth one-upping each other about how much trouble their man was.

Then the older one sighed and said something like. "I always go for a guy who lives on the edge. Always. I know it's not good for me, but I can't help it." The younger one nodded, "Yup, me too. We love our troublemakers."

Stickwick said...

Was it anything he could change? If so, it would have helped him to know! Gotta be cruel to be kind, and all that.

The one time I actually told a guy the truth, it backfired on me. A male acquaintance who was having girl trouble asked me what I found attractive in a man, and I told him muscles and a chiseled face. He got very upset, because he had neither. Maybe he eventually got over his initial reaction and decided to eat right and work out, but all I remember is that he was like a puppy that had just been drop-kicked. It made me feel like a real bitch for being so blunt, and I henceforth resolved never to answer such questions again. That's the problem with male-female interactions. A man probably responds to the hurt-puppy thing by telling the guy to grow a pair. A woman just feels pity or contempt, and either way she usually wants nothing to do with the guy after that.

facepalm said...

These guys would be perfect for cannon fodder. Not only do they not know where they stand, they don't even know who to ask for directions.

If you're at the point where you convey so little value that you have to ask what's wrong with you, why would you double down on that by actually asking? It's not only a failure in perception and comprehension, but also in self respect.

Of course even having those things wouldn't help if you're not willing to offer something they want, which most of the time is nothing good or nothing much.

physphilmusic said...

The guy's described situation in his celibate years seemed pretty sad, but I don't get the anger, anguish and hopelessness. All that drama. I'm also currently in state of celibacy, but so what? Commit suicide because of lack of sex? That's ridiculous, and shows how powerless you are against the sexual urge. Taking the red pill has made me so disillusioned with the true nature of women that I feel a certain revulsion at the idea that I have to better myself in order to obtain sex from them. Why do I even care? In fact the more independent I am of women, the better. Masturbation, porn, video games, reading books, composing music, and doing science seem to be fulfilling enough. In contrast, the guy's self-worth seems to be tied so much to sex. Instead of being a mere desire or need (yes, a very strong need, but just a need after all), sex seems to be his central obsession in life. Why didn't he start a new hobby, goal, or project, and focus his frustrations there so that he can get a purpose in life. His confessions just make him seem even more pathetic and at the mercy of sex.

Doom said...

Yeah, I'm not sure about what Paul said though. Yeah, yeah, I know, bible and suchnot. Celibacy is definitely a gift, one I don't have. But... women? Not that it is difficult to find one, mostly, now that health is on the rebound personally, but... just one? That IS celibacy when they get into the typical house-wifey rut, during parts of pregnancy, and such. I don't think there is an easy way for a man with a healthy libido.

Save if there is room for a second wife, or the like. I think the Churches need to re-evaluate some things. Hmm, though the muslim world is a good example of why not, though too. The schmucks have no chance at a woman, must always war to knock off the uneven parts of the population, and have to watch livestock and young sons and daughters like a hawk.

Then again, it does suggest that the way is not easy. Just... thinking things through, here, is all.

taterearl said...

If I ever make the mistake of asking a woman for dating advice again...I'll just do the opposite of what she says.

In fact ever since swallowing the red pill...I have cut asking any type of question to a woman to almost nil. Most of the time all of my conversations are now statements...or a question that I use as a setup. Women I've found are more truthful if you relate to them than asking them for the truth.

Signe said...

A friend of mine's husband (Alpha) told me he noticed my hips have slimmed down. He went further to tell me how much skinnier his wife was than me before I lost weight. My friend chimed in, "but honey, look how tall she is compared to me!" She knows me well and knows I have no issue with what he said but still "white knighted" me.

It is true that we women will close ranks against incoming enemy criticism. But I'm not convinced that was what happened here.

Hint: Her Alpha husband was comparing the two of you and saying that something he likes in her is now present in you.

Martel said...

@ Stickwick: It seems like it backfired in more than I think it did. That type of thing hurts to hear, but it needs to be heard. However, in the future, I would emphasize the stuff he can change (muscles) over stuff he can't (chiseled face). Regardless, I respect what you did, and even though I would have felt like that dropkicked puppy dog if a woman told me something like that, it would have helped a lot.

I know women have a larger aversion to seeing the pain they cause than men do (notice how I didn't say "causing pain", you just don't want to know you're doing it), but if there's a "nice guy" in your life who needs to hear something, on his behalf I ask you to say it. It'll hurt like hell, but not as much as years of InCel.

A lot of great insights here (especially Matthew's). It reminds me of the blind guys describing the elephant, all true, just different aspects.

I think the bad advice can be a direct reflection of the female disconnect between mind and genitalia.

A guy asks what he's doing wrong. She has no tingle for him, so it's a mind excercise. She analyzes all the things her boyfriend does that are "wrong", and apply it to the asker.

Does he show up on time? Check. Respectful of my feelings? Check. Does he listen to my problems instead of laugh at them? Check.

"You're not doing anything wrong. You're a great guy, and you'll find somebody special soon."

Stickwick said...

@ Martel: Hopefully you're right that it helped him in some way. Point taken about emphasizing changeable attributes.

Anonymous said...

"all I remember is that he was like a puppy that had just been drop-kicked."

Yep.

Whenever the conversation comes up, my friends have the same face when I share what I have learned and what I think.

You're destroying a pedestal that has been built up for years. You are telling him that female sexuality isn't all pretty and magical, that science says you improve your chances just by wearing the color red and MOST girls respond to this.

You aren't just telling him Santa Claus isn't real. You're telling him democracy isn't real, his mom doesn't love him, most women probably won't either, and by the way when you die there is no heaven.

It's extremely painful for the pedestal to come down, but come down it must.


-ADBG

Matthew Walker said...

@SarahsDaughter, @NateM --

I had it backwards, didn't I? She isn't putting herself in his shoes and considering his feelings; she's thinking of him as a woman and considering what his predicted response will do to her feelings.

Generally, if women criticize men to their faces, it's a shit-test or bitch shield thing. I'm trying to think of counter-examples, and all I'm coming up with "please take your feet off the table, sir" kind of things at restaurants or whatever. And that's not really personal interaction. Anyway, neither shit test nor bitch shield applies with a LJBF.

What's in it for her, if she helps him? Nothing she can think of offhand. So she just terminates the conversation in the lowest-conflict way she can.

Why would I help him, for that matter? The manosphere is, in a sense, a lot of men who've redirected their white-knighting reflex to helping fellow men instead of helping women.

Anonymous said...

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person/

tz said...

Women want leaders. Leaders don't ask questions or form consensus. If you are worthy of being followed you have a far better chance. Husbands handle the world, Wives create the sanctuary of the hearth and home. Let them rule there. Yet as CS Lewis showed in Narnia, some things are bigger on the inside than the outside

Celibacy is truly a gift. (Thank God I'm Roman - Latin Rite - Catholic! We have more than enough problems without a married priesthood).

It is better to marry than to burn. But it is even worse to get burned in divorce.

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