Friday, October 26, 2012

Spaghetti arms and sour grapes

Susan Walsh provides what would appear to be a counter-intuitive perspective on the appeal of male muscles:
I think men get muscled for one another, kind of the way women dress up for one another when they go out. Women like a fit body, but I will take a runner over a bodybuilder anyday. And I am grossed out by male pecs that are like boobs – something Jason was talking about recently. Blech!  I may be an extreme case – for example, I think Nathan Harden’s skinny arm on the CD cover is sexy. I think his jutting hipbones would be sexy. But I’ve always liked the hipster look. I’m not alone – my guess is that skinny, brooding types, who are often called “bad boys” even when they are not, as in Nathan’s case – outperform PUA types by a mile.
Solipsism alert! First, straight men most certainly do not get muscled for one another. That is pure female projection. We muscle up because it feels good to be powerful rather than weak, because we tend to seek improvement and get competitive with ourselves whenever we focus on something, and because we observe that women gravitate towards the stronger, more well-developed men.  It feels great when women eye your muscles with interest and grab at your pecs, your biceps and your triceps.

I never cared about being able to bench more than my best friends.  My high-school tennis partner was the state powerlifting champion, I was never, ever, going to be able to compete with him.  But I cared a great deal about being able to bench 135, then 225, then 315.  Now, I have a naturally delicate build, but managed to put on nearly 50 pounds over the years through hitting the weights. So I have a direct basis for comparison and I can say that women, on the average, react much more strongly and much more positively to men with well-developed musculatures. Furthermore, it tends to be the hottest, fittest women who prefer the hardest men. After all, who is going to pound her harder and throw her around the bed more easily, limp-wristed Emo Boy or strong, fit, Ripped Guy.

It's not that I had any problem attracting girls when I was a slender soccer player. I’m a writer, after all, and I could probably brood for England. But then, I never once had pretty strangers in the street look me over and say “yum” either.  That being said, do some guys overdo the weight training?  Yes, absolutely. But there is a huge gap between a scrawny runner and a waddling musclehead who looks like a stuffed sausage in a suit.  Daniel Craig as James Bond on the beach is much more the norm than Arnold as Mr. Universe posing onstage.

I thought Susan's comment about finding skinny arms to be sexy to be particularly interesting, since I have heard other women declare that they find "spaghetti arms" and "sunken chests" on men to be vomit-inducing.  I have also noticed that adult women who prefer hipster men are either still attracted to the same type of juveniles that first attracted them in their early teens or fall in the 5-6 SMV category.

My hypothesis is that the human mind has an unconscious means of limiting its attraction triggers to the members of the opposite sex within an attainable SMV range. It was always astounding to me when a relatively plain woman would confess that she found one of my average male friends to be hot while genuinely exhibiting no interest whatsoever in any of my much better-looking friends. It’s a very healthy and positive spin on the sour grapes fable.

As for PUAs, no.  Hipsters do not outperform them.  If nothing else, logic would suggest that by the time a skinny brooding hipster has emo’d his way into a girl’s boudoir, the PUA will have plowed his way through six or seven women already. After all, it takes a lot more time to strike poses, simper, and wait to be noticed than damn the torpedoes and proceed full speed ahead.

"Kate Beckett" on Castle may have said it best, grammatical infelicities notwithstanding, upon realizing how many moderately attractive women had been seduced by a dead PUA whose death she was investigating.  "I weep for my gender."

Anyhow, if Susan finds skinny arms to be sexy, no doubt she'll be absolutely enraptured by this video from my old Wax Trax! labelmates, particularly by the lead singer, Milan Fras.  JA!  JA!  JA!  JAWOHL!  I don't know about the sexiness, but Milan is at least 1,000x more totally awesome than Nathan Harden.  I doubt Harden has giant pink caribous... by which I actually mean GIANT PINK CARIBOUS.

98 comments:

taterearl said...

I didn't get into weights so I could get muscled for other men. I got into weights because I was an easy target to get pushed around by other guys in high school (skinny, tall guy with no muscles). Do enough squats, deadlifts, and bench...it will make it harder for them to push you around. To this day that is my primary motivation...(with attracting the ladies and feeling powerful and healthy as the others).

Stronger men also would protect women and the children better.

They still have that in their minds as well.

Angel said...

Are we sure that Susan is a heterosexual women?
That picture looked like Sally Struthers should be crying and asking for donations.

Yes, someone whose biceps will actually explode on their own is replusive. And yes, intellect is wonderful and so is skill. However, my Father and Husband are both very muscled (naturally blessed with good genetics and just enjoy throwing huge amounts of weight around for fun I guess) and neither I, nor my Mother, was first attracted to their...minds. None of the women who regularly hit on them and ask if they can "just feel your muscles" are looking at their minds either.

This is just as ridiculous as men who claim to like the flat chested look. Fine, you may settle for it but they sure as hell stare at my chest anyway.

Angel said...

And funny you should mention Castle as I cannot stomach it ever since they added the female Lt. who insists that everyone call her "Sir" and that "Ma'am" is her Mother. Really, now simply being referred to by the female gender is offensive to the career women. Lovely and disllusional.
Also, they started out with Castle being a cocky fun guy and soon made him Kate's toy poodle.
Another promising story has its reality tweaked for feminazis.

Josh said...

Does that musician guy have cancer?

Christina Fernandez said...

No! He's so ugly. I like the slim-to-medium builds that are toned. When I first met my husband, he was skinny but well defined. He's bulked up and my preference is now for a medium built. Still, I never liked the waif.

Giraffe said...

You just called Susan Walsh a 5-6.

Vicomte said...

Women are able to 'rationalize attractiveness'.

The guy they like is physically attractive, no matter what kind of hamster gymnastics it takes.

Cryan Ryan said...

A couple years back, Roissy was addressing a woman's claims that she liked black guys because they were this, they were that...

Roissy started out by finding the woman's picture and displaying it, for the purpose of demonstrating that she was 40 years old, saggy, and in his words "had already hit the wall so hard her head was sticking out the other side".

It was hilarious and I was hooked from that time on.

But I think that situation is related to Susan's claim. Young, muscular black males are willing to come over under cover of darkness and give the girl a good shellacking, and then leave un-noticed. She likes the youth, the muscles, and the taboo nature, and she puts up with the jungle scent.

In her mind, black is better.

It seems by looking at most interracial couples, it is a strong black man, with a very fat and very bleach blonde white girl, usually 1-2 on the scale.

Those girls would no doubt have similar views.

I always liked Catherine Zeta Jones, but I tell my wife I chose her because she's prettier. (and to me, she is)

VD said...

You just called Susan Walsh a 5-6.

Not at all. First, I don't know what Susan looks like. Second, there are always outliers. Third, you're forgetting the alternative.

More importantly, who cares what Susan's SMV happens to be? It's her ideas that matter. I don't care what Roissy's, Athol's, or Keoni Galt's SMV happen to be either.

VD said...

The guy they like is physically attractive, no matter what kind of hamster gymnastics it takes.

That is a very good observation. And it's a very good thing, too. One of my best friends once knew a guy in college who had the genuine gift of only seeing a woman's most attractive features. He truly believed they were surrounded by hot girls all the time.

That's not a bad thing, not at all.

Giraffe said...

I am sure she is at least more attractive than that Nathan Hardin chick.

SarahsDaughter said...

It was a happy day when I first saw my husband after basic training. He went from a great build on a six foot frame to hummina hummina!

I don't know if this is true of all Scandinavian men but it seems their muscle development occurs later than black teenage boys, for example. My husband is the runt of both of our families at six foot. And didn't get his man muscles until he was done growing. Our son is struggling with the same thing. He's 5'10 (much taller than his dad was at the same age), and though he has larger arms than emaciated Nathan Harden, he is frustrated with his inability to put on more muscle weight. He wants to be able to (have girls see him) compete in football. His peers here in Oklahoma (not Scandinavian) are done growing and can give and withstand hits that would seriously injure him currently - so on the sidelines he remains. He grew six inches in the last year and considering the sheer volume of food he eats, is in no way done growing. He should believe us that he has Viking blood and will look like the other men in our family +6'4/+220lbs, but he gets easily discouraged.

On days he doesn't have practice, I take him to my Crossfit gym. There the guys seem to be most interested in personal bests. That and who can fail in the grandest way. If you're going to fall on your ass, it is best to do it with an impressive PR load.

taterearl said...

My family is mostly German descent...most of the boys started out skinny and tall and then filled in through their mid 20s.

I didn't start keeping weight on until I got out of college. In fact my biggest muscle gains happened around my mid 20s and have been holding steady through now.

Elspeth @ Breathing Grace said...

This is an interesting post. Especially the part about the positive spin on the sour grapes fable.

My husband (6'2", 215) isn't bulging with muscles, but he works out enough to be strong and solid.

I chalk a lot of the attraction to weaker looking men to the pervasiveness of hormonal birth control. When I first saw the studies linking women's attraction to androgyny and BC, it explained a lot.

And then, some women may simply prefer men with a very slight build. As a tall woman, I've never been able to identify with that, but attraction is quite subjective.

liberatusthemuse said...

That Laibach shit is horrible!

VD said...

That Laibach shit is horrible!

Philistine. I turn up my nose at you, you dreadful peasant with no appreciation for great Art.

Anonymous said...

Some chicks dig the hemophiliac look, I guess.

AverageMarriedDad said...

I was a skinny, skinny dude (better than the skinny-fat dude I was once) from my mid-20's to mid-30's as I competed in Ironman triathlons, marathons and 100 mile bike rides regularly. I shifted over the last couple years to heavy lifting, and added about 25 lbs of muscle in that time. I get friends and randoms noting how "big" I've gotten (I'm not that big) compared to average guys with my frame. I'm a hard gainer so it's been a long road to get here. As VD said, there's a huge chasm between hipster/marathoner skinny and Lou Ferrigno huge. Crossfitter types (both men and women) in my mind are the best mix of strong and lean, which is what I'm going for. My wife likes my "new" look much better now complete with huge bubble butt. She said I was too skinny before and my bony hips would dig in during sex, no problem with that now :)

Anonymous said...

[b]Women are able to 'rationalize attractiveness'.

The guy they like is physically attractive, no matter what kind of hamster gymnastics it takes.[/b]

Yup. This is why a lot of girls get super-paranoid when you go out without them. They assume coz they think you're hot that every other woman does as well.

a good ROI said...

I'm so glad I was born a mesomorph.


Orion said...

Some how I can't picture a woman asking a guy in a tight t-shirt with no muscles to touch their shoulders (it was part of a halloween costume as the Hulk). Clothes can obscure a lot, but when you get down to t-shirts the majority of women (when the do a double take and realize there is no padding) are generally more attracted to some muscle. Not the scarecrow.

Daniel said...

SarahsDaughter - Scandinavian delay for sure. I grew five inches in college and thought I was weak because I could only throw hay bales up barely above my head instead of 3-5 feet to the the top of the stack (grew up in a fully 75% scandy place: mixed marriages were when Norwegians married down to a Swede or a Dane. The one exchange student was from Iceland.)

It wasn't until I was about 24 that I could toss the suckers two stacks up on the mid loft from below.

He should go out for wrestling - that equalizes by weight, and larval viking vs. equal weight is no contest.

Stickwick said...

I have a good friend who says she prefers tall, skinny guys. She married a Dutch guy who fit that exact description. The interesting thing is, he's put on some muscle recently, and one time when he was rock climbing, she commented very approvingly on his bigger arm muscles.

Skinny arms are a huge turn off. Skinny-anything on a man is unappealing, but especially arms. To me, it looks feminine, and if I wanted to be with someone who looks like a girl, I'd just go ahead be a lesbian.

My preference is for a very fit special forces style physique. Most SF guys are actually relatively short, but very, very fit with just the right amount of muscle. Stallone in First Blood is perfection, and his body type is typical of SF (in his later three Rambo films, not so much). Jason Statham is also perfection. There is nothing more swoon-inducing than a man with great arms and pecs taking his shirt off, especially when he's kind of sweaty. Also, a chiseled face complements the muscles oh-so nicely. And facial hair.

Josh said...

Chicks dig guys who deadlift and squat.

Stingray said...

Jason Statham is also perfection. There is nothing more swoon-inducing than a man with great arms and pecs taking his shirt off, especially when he's kind of sweaty. Also, a chiseled face complements the muscles oh-so nicely. And facial hair.

*Homer Simpson drool*

The One said...

Try lifting the average American without hitting the gym for a year first. Good luck

Newly Aloof said...

Oh please! Men lift for self improvement - whether that be for safety, speed, strength or status. Telling us it's for other men is a passive aggressive tactic to belittle male self-improvement so that we'll stop trying. Susan probably doesn't even realize this, since her hamster wrote that line.

Stickwick said...

Chicks dig guys who deadlift and squat.

An astute observation. I see guys at the gym who have great upper bodies but twiggy little legs, and it's weird-looking to the point of being creepy. You gotta have the legs to match.

@ Stingray: This is for you. The first time I saw this, I almost passed out when he slams his shirt down and says "Really ... " (at about 1:58). And, this reminds me. PSA: Men, please, do NOT shave your body hair, ever.

The Dawn, the Sky, and the Sun said...

Im still waiting for Vox to get ripped and shredded, then turn into a fitness model like Greg Plitt. Vox, make a video like this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6hCKwRjiys

SarahsDaughter said...

"He should go out for wrestling - that equalizes by weight, and larval viking vs. equal weight is no contest." - Daniel

Absolutely! He's wrestled many years, football is his frustration, wrestling has always been his sport. He doesn't start wrestling until football season is finished and, Daniel, the GIRLS...he needs them to see him NOW!

Bob Wallace said...

Almost all body builders are homosexual, and they do it because they are narcissistic and they do it for each other. Then you have the short guys with the Little Man Complex. Lots of women don't like muscles and I've met many who prefer tall slender guys.

Anonymous said...

> I think men get muscled for one another

That is insanely stupid. Everything she says should be disregarded.

Trust said...

I like the solipsistic projection point.

What women say men want is a better indicator of what the woman wants than anything she says about her own wants.

Jehu said...

My experience is you get a pretty big boost in the eyes of most women if you're visibly strong enough to toss them around without too much effort. So you probably ought to be strong enough to do that to any woman light enough to be attractive to you.
Beyond that, my observation is that you continue to get dividends from women up to about the 98th percentile or so (about 2 sigma). Odd that so many things are that way from a social perspective, 2 sigma being the point of diminishing returns.

taterearl said...

The squat rack is my best friend. You can learn more about yourself as a man trying to hoist 350-400 pounds.

In fact you want to read a better perspective about lifting weights (and a counter to Susan Walsh)...Henry Rollins says it best.

http://www.oldtimestrongman.com/strength-articles/iron-henry-rollins

David said...

"My hypothesis is that the human mind has an unconscious means of limiting its attraction triggers to the members of the opposite sex within an attainable SMV range."

An interesting thought, particularly when read in line with Lovecraft's thought, "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents."

Hence, 2s can be attracted to 2s and everybody gets somebody so long as they are willing to take anybody.

Not having this governor on one's high standards when one is an omega could very well result in being alone forever.

Daniel said...

Absolutely! He's wrestled many years, football is his frustration, wrestling has always been his sport. He doesn't start wrestling until football season is finished and, Daniel, the GIRLS...he needs them to see him NOW!

Football was a huge frustration for me - my favorite sport and my worst due to size and zero skill, except for the fact that I infuriated every back on the starting defense because, as much fun as they had blowing me up, I never went down as easy as they thought I would, and it drove them nuts when I'd get back up and sprint back in drills to do it again. I liked hitting, but I also liked getting hit.

It is probably playoffs now, so he's got no chance to persuade anyone for this season, but he should really think about trying to become a decent kicker (one style - punting or kickoffs, preferably - won't have to work on accuracy, just whipping his body into a big booming thing) only to get on the field. Most high schoolers don't want to kick, and those that do tend to try to be good in all three phases. If he can, for example, learn to punt it farther than anyone else (and suck in the other kicking phases), he'll get on the field, and then basically gets to play safety on punts.

I was never smart enough to take that route, but our undersized Swede of a punter was. He made a number of decent tackles (obviously it helped that our special teams sucked) and ended up as the starting safety. I don't even think he was punting by his senior year - or if he was, it was rare.

Your boy might want to try that. Heck, getting in front of coaches for multiple try-outs (and request mid-season try-outs, too) might at least help them see his desire.

I went to a small school though.

Oh, and if he ever has to wrestle a girl this season, tell him to attack her ferociously and make no apology if she ends up badly injured. His only response should be "We wrestled as equals."

That will have the girls lined up around the block for him.

TLM said...

Susan is your pal Vox, but she IS an overweight less than ideal looking woman. These types always s&it on the weightlifters because they know that they're invisible to us.

Anonymous said...

Don't listen to what women say, watch what they do. Susan may be pissed that she can't get big and strong like men can. She may be pissed that she can't attract strong men. Who knows. But the notion that she isn't turned on by male physical strength is ridiculous and not really worth discussing.

JP (real one) said...

It's interesting she mentions runners.

Let me preface by saying that I've done quite a bit of running. I've even taken 1st place for my age group a couple of times a small, local 5K. At this point, I run very little, though. I'm convinced that there's little benefit, outside of sprinting.

http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/06/01/long-cardio-workout-dangers.aspx

I mostly do bodyweight exercises right now, along with a little heavy bag work.

Anyway, competitive runners are a pet peeve of mine. They talk non-stop (in person and on Facebook) about their daily runs, their progress and Heaven forbid if they ever do well in a 5K/10K/marathon. Their obese, non-fit friends heap praise on them, which encourages the runners to brag even more. I think most of them have some childhood complex. They didn't get enough soccer trophies or "attaboy/attagirl" remarks in youth sports or something. I see no need to tell everyone how many pull-ups or burpees I did. You don't need to tell me your 10K time.

AJ said...

Ha! Had an interesting encounter about 2 weeks ago. Sitting in my flat, studying, with only my jeans on (hot and humid evening).

Knock on the door.. Get up, and it's 2 girls from down the hall. I've never seen them before, cause I keep some odd hours, spending a lot of time on campus. They ask if I have a corkscrew they can borrow. I get it for them and they promise to bring it back as soon as possible.

About 20 min later, another knock on the door. I answer the door, to find 6 (!) giggling girls standing there,apparently to "return" the corkscrew.

Haha, so yeah, I'm not huge by any bodybuilding standards, but I exercise hard and simple (Squat, DL, Bench, overhead press, pullups) and they definitely liked what they saw. So while there are outliers, (like Susan), I'd have to agree with Vox here, most women prefer the more muscular look. And it's far easier to be too skinny/fat/weak than it is to be too muscular. So rather err on the side of being more muscular.

jlw said...

I find lifting to be insanely boring but love running long distance. I enjoy reading the devotionals to lifting here; it's interesting that human minds can be wired so differently! So far as attractiveness goes, no attractive MOTOS has ever shown an interest in me in any way whatsoever, so there is one datum for your survey re: lifting vs. cardio. (Being very short, extremely ugly, amd hyper-miserly with high standards may play into that, however.)

Wilf said...

@taterearl

Thanks for the Henry Rollins article. That was a great read.

Yeah, hitting the iron is about self improvement full stop. I started lifting a few years ago at age 44, after being a runner for many years. And, it's one of the best things I've ever done for myself. There are many benefits but the confidence you get from knowing that you are strong is unbeatable.

I won't lie. I also like it when I catch my 20-something hottie co-worker checking out my arms and shoulders. Win, win.

Trust said...

When women settle they act like they prefer what they settle for. After alimony and child support are a lock, they'll blame those spaghetti arms they then claimed to love for driving them into the pythons (and boxers) of some harass.

Trust said...

*hardass that is.

MasterOfThePooniverse said...

I'd love to weigh in on this one. A little background. I'm a handsome man to many girls (probably a 7-8 face male), 30 years old, 6' tall, 215 lbs, athletic) and I've just recently (pat 6-12months) been reading blogs like this and the like.

I have had what you might call elite status with women since I was let loose in college (I bed a new girl every 2-3 weeks, for the past 12 years, you do the math). I took the time to understand what it takes to bed women. I have toiled and worked very hard to understand the female psyche. I've conquered, I've failed. I've watched and learned from myself and others doing the same. I rarely comment because it's hard for me to read through all the comments with my busy schedule.

But being an athlete and one with extensive knowledge about bedding women and what it takes, I think I could add some expertise and insight regarding physical appearance aspect of Game. Allow me to gather some thoughts, not sure they will be well organized.

- ages 16-22, my height (6'), did not noticeably help me with women, they didn't care much about height or size. A better face and more ripped body was a winner, even if he was 5'5, 155 lbs.

- as the woman get older height and size have become a significant advantage. Women like to ask numbers and something about being 6' and 200lbs really revs them up

- you do have to have a nice shape. Yes they love ripped men, if not too ripped, but if you take care of yourself, you can still have 15% body fat and be very attractive to women

- Don't be extreme. being 250+ lbs, an oversized muscle lug, or 6'4"+ is too extreme for most women and it will hurt you more than help you

- big is good. They like big strong legs (you need your legs and hips to bang them hard), they like hard shoulders, and they adore a big muscular back. They like a big strong cable arm and shoulder wrapped around them

- Mind your gut. Doesn't have to be a 6 pack but don't have a beer belly

-skinny dudes. The fact is that the majority of women simply don't want a skinny shit. If they do, most of the time I think they're just saying so as some kind of defense mechanism because they can't get the alpha male full sized man they want.

-As a competitive weightlifter, sometimes I bulk up and lose some of my tone. This has a couple of affects. First, women still love my big features so it doesn't hurt me, however, my face gets a bit chunky and it defniitely has a negative affect on my ability to attract a woman at first glance. Find a size/shape for you that allows you to have mass, but doesn't compromise your facial features.

Mr Green Man said...

As someone who doesn't give a care and viewed it as a rigged game from before puberty, happy Omega, I like to pump iron because it focuses the mind. I can measure the difference in lines of code output and increased working hours (usually about a 50% boost) from a morning workout. Does dressing up have the same effect for Mrs. Walsh?

Jack Amok said...

SarahsDaughter:

don't know if this is true of all Scandinavian men but it seems their muscle development occurs later than black teenage boys,

I grew up in a town with basically zero black families. But we had a large population of southern Italians and Iberians (Spanish and Portuguese). I'm Norman-Anglo-Celt, lots of Viking blood. Growing up, I was always one of the taller kids in school, grew sort of steady all the way. In Middle School, the Italians and Iberians were all about as tall as me, and most of them had mustaches by 9th grade. But they stopped growing in High School, and ended up 5'8" or so tops, and maybe 170lbs at best.

I was tall, had big legs, a large frame, but my chest and arms didn't start developing until my 20's. Then all of a sudden I just started getting bigger. Now I' 6'4" and about 240. My nephews are all exactly the same - skinny until their 20's.

So, the lesson for your son... don't get married young! Wait until 25 or so to start taking women seriously, and then he'll be a magnet for them - from a physical standpoint he'll have his pick of the hotties. In the meantime, lift weights. It helps, even if it won't show for a while.

Josh said...

Almost all body builders are homosexual, and they do it because they are narcissistic and they do it for each other. Then you have the short guys with the Little Man Complex. Lots of women don't like muscles and I've met many who prefer tall slender guys

Because bodybuilding is what we're talking about...

You need to mask your bitterness better, Mr gamma.

Daniel said...

I went from skinny to decent. Skinny certainly attracted some women within a certain range (and I didn't complain then) but decent broadens that range upward by a ton. I don't know how that can be denied.

If a woman isn't attracted to a guy with muscles at first, she certainly will find a way to overcome her "revulsion" if he shows interest. That's the only decent measure: ask the Bert-arms muppet gals how many "overmuscled" guys' propositions they've turned down.

If it is one or fewer, I think we can all agree that there is a safe amount of honest (if secret) self-evaluation and self-selection going on.

Angel said...

Masterofthepooniverse,
You have wasted your life.

Anonymous said...

Pretty sure you're not in a position to make that assessment , angel, but have at it.
HeManMasterOfThePooniverse

Banzai Pipeline said...

- Don't be extreme. being 250+ lbs, an oversized muscle lug, or 6'4"+ is too extreme for most women and it will hurt you more than help you

I'm 6'7". Anyone got any ideas how I can get down to 6'4"?

Anonymous said...

Huh. Never considered any of that. As far as girls preferring guys within the same range as far as looks go, I always thought it was only because they thought they couldn't do better and just go with whatever they can get (which I'm sure is true for manh women). My friend, who would probably place as a 3 on the scale, has some of the lowest standards I've seen. There'll be some hideous guy who she thinks is "cute". And in her case, I think she genuinely thinks that. But in my case, even though I attract the attention of a lot of guys and wouldn't have a hard time catching someone good looking, I have a preference for guys who AREN'T good looking. I don't know why, but I just do. Not ugly, just... not good looking, either. And it doesn't hurt when they're physically fit. Think... Jason Statham.

T14 said...

In fairness,being swole certainly has its benefits with men, especially in the professional world (where 50 inch chests are hardly the norm). Conversation starter, attention getter, etc.

As far as too much... I had a buddy who was a NPC competitor. He did more than fine. I'm happy with Tom Hardy in "warrior" look. In "Bronson" if I'm slacking.

And if you are not squatting and deadlifting you are not lifting. And if you claim you are Jim Wendler will kill you in your sleep.

T14 said...

And Bob Wallace was clearly the guy who showered with his underwear on. I can just envision his pot belly pushing through a greasy wife beater. Trailer sold separately

SouthTX said...

Girls like a pro wrestler build. Seen it first hand.

SouthTX said...

Alpha girls especially.

Kyle In Japan said...

Meh. I'm a tall, skinny guy (but not a skeleton like the album cover dude, yuck) and I like it that way. I might go to the gym... if there was a gym in my town. I'm pretty much stuck doing pushups/situps/arm weight exercises at home, but I happen to think my body looks quite good, so I don't mind.

The biggest problem with for skinny dudes is how they clothe themselves. If you wear loose, saggy attire, then you look like a wimp even if you aren't super skinny; and if your clothes fit too tight, it's not much better.

Steve Canyon said...

I'm 6'3, 195 and don't lift weights or run outside of what's required for military PT. Is there a good link for someone who wants to start lifting weights?

Toby Temple said...

From my experience, women say negative things about muscles until they are able to touch them and feel them from men.

Much more if they experience sex with a muscular guy.

T14 said...

@Steve Canyon
While I've never done it, I've heard "starting strength" is a good place to start. Google that.

Aeoli Pera said...

That is the best music video I've ever seen. Metal is dead to me now.

Josh said...

Starting Strength or Stronglifts is a good place to start.

Focus on compound lifts that use multiple muscle groups:
Barbell Squat
Barbell Deadlift
Bench Press
Push Press/Shoulder Press
Barbell Row
Dips/Pullups

SarahsDaughter said...

"Oh, and if he ever has to wrestle a girl" - Daniel

He's fortunately never had too, but that is great advice! He's 135 lbs so he may be out of the woods of girl wrestler territory - I hope.

"So, the lesson for your son... don't get married young! Wait until 25 or so to start taking women seriously, and then he'll be a magnet for them - from a physical standpoint he'll have his pick of the hotties. In the meantime, lift weights. It helps, even if it won't show for a while." - Jack Amok

Great advice here too! I remember my brother-in-law changing into a completely different looking man between 19 and 25. He went from a scrawny bean pole to Eric the Red.


I didn't know exactly what Hipster meant when I first read what Vox quoted of Susan's. Maybe it's just Oklahoma doing yet another thing backward, but the Crossfit gym I go to is owned by hipsters with varying hair colors and styles and one of the trainers has 7/8 inch gauges among his other facial piercings.

SouthTX said...

Wow, red pill 2.0 scares the crap out of me for my youngest child. A daughter. Her older brothers love f*ucking boys minds who mess with her. I thought that is whats sons are for and made me glad the daughter was born latest. I guess we didn't realize the player level in them.

SouthTX said...

Correction. Sons level. Little sister hasn't got a chance of having a unharassed BF. Her brothers pull top shelf. Knowing she shares their genes, they do the initial screening. And they are unkind.

Bob Wallace said...

Amusing that a few guys cannot tolerate the fact that homosexuality is rampant among body builders. It makes me wonder about their sexual preferences.

Josh said...

Amusing that a few guys cannot tolerate the fact that homosexuality is rampant among body builders. It makes me wonder about their sexual preferences.

One might think that you're engaging in some projection...

You're the one who brought up the gay body builders. I suppose you were jealous of the girls having fun taking about which type of guy turned then on wanted to join in.

So you're attracted to gay body builders.

Not that there's anything wrong with it...

Rollo Tomassi said...

https://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/06/06/tickle-me-emo/

Aunt Giggles prefers waify Emos because it fits with her overall narrative about men in general – Build a Better Beta. Women who share her neurosis struggle to control the attention of dominant masculine, physically imposing men so they opt for what they can attain and then seek to work/build within what their own conditions will permit.

I'd suggest Aunt Sue brush up on the facts about why muscularity is sexy to women, before she presumes brooding poets outperform muscular PUAs:

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/papers/downloads/Frederick_Haselton_2007_Muscularity_sexy.pdf

Anonymous said...

There is another explanation. What about male 9 were able to get top 9s or 6's, while 6's were able to get those 6's who were not interested in 9's. In the process, there would be a a selection for 6-looking girls who really genuinely would like other 6's and who would really NOT find 9s attractive.

Not to mention that if you take into account our evolutionary history, austrolopithecus afaransis males were probably much, much more larger than females, which means that evolutionary history pushed sex dimorphism DOWN.

whoism3 said...

In another year, i'll make an awesome body double / poor mans version of Jason Statham.

I dare to dream :)

Josh said...

Aunt Giggles prefers waify Emos because it fits with her overall narrative about men in general – Build a Better Beta. Women who share her neurosis struggle to control the attention of dominant masculine, physically imposing men so they opt for what they can attain and then seek to work/build within what their own conditions will permit.

In a recent post or comment thread at HUS, she actually said that most women are attracted to cute betas.

rycamor said...

Any man who has upped his game in middle age realizes right away that muscles make a difference. Make even a few pounds' difference in the muscle/fat ratio and you'll start noticing women do a double-take. Hilarious, sometimes.

Wilf said...

@rycamor

So true that. So true.

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