Thursday, October 11, 2012

Feminist sex is false advertising

Susan Walsh tracks a remarkable trajectory of supposedly "sex-positive feminism" in a female advocate of casual sex that provides solid support for Roissy's theory of the Slut Cycle, in which the alpha chaser just happens to decide to slide off the carousel and start considering relationships with lower rank men as she ages and The Wall looms:
Age 24: I’m a 24-year-old member of the hookup generation — I’ve had roughly three times as many hookups as relationships — and, like innumerable 20-somethings before me, I’ve found that casual sex can be healthy and normal and lead to better adult relationships....  I learned something from all of the men I dated. Sexually, I learned plenty about what turns me on. More important, by spending time in uncommitted relationships, what I wanted in a committed relationship became clearer — and it wasn’t amorous antagonism but a partnership that didn’t trigger self-protectiveness…Perhaps young women are putting feminist ideals of equality into sex by refusing shame and claiming the traditionally male side of the stud/slut double standard.

Age 26: As I see it, young women have fully proved that we can have one-night stands, hear us roar – and maybe we’re beginning to also allow ourselves more nuanced feelings about our hookups…We can now acknowledge regret over a one-night stand, without being considered, or seeing ourselves as, forever ruined women; if there’s been a recent change in my generation’s relationship to casual sex, I suspect it’s that we’re relaxing our defensive posturing.

Age 27:  I wanted company, warmth and no danger of attachment.... Except that in reality there was. I actually liked him, quite a bit, as a human being…At some point I realized that, despite my insistence otherwise, I actually wanted those sorts of intimacies, only with an actual commitment. 

Age 28: I’ve tired of hookup culture’s dictatorial reign over modern courtship. It doesn’t feel so free when it doesn’t feel like an intentional choice….I’ve often had no one but myself to blame — especially when going after boys literally wearing warning signs in the form of tattoos reading things like, “I am what I am” or “forgive me.”  Sometimes, tearing off your clothes is just a pathetic attempt at taking control of the uncontrollable: love. It took me a while to realize that I wasn’t always getting what I wanted from hookups.
She's right on schedule.  In three more years she'll be declaring that there are no good men left, followed seven years later by loud and unconvincing declarations of how much she loves being single at 40.  The punchline?  The woman who wanted us to hear her roar that she had fully proved her ability to have one-night stands belatedly confesses that she almost never climaxed in any of the casual encounters she was so enthusiastically championing.  " I didn’t mention that I’d faked it during nearly all of my dalliances."  Now, how much can she possibly have learned about what turns her on if she didn't even manage to learn enough to get off?

Susan is absolutely correct to conclude that this seller of casual sex was a fraud.  Now, I would not go so far as to conclude that no woman genuinely enjoys casual sex or one-night stands, as there are without question true sluts at heart whose cravings for physical activity are very similar to those of highly-sexed men.  But it is simply not true to claim that all, most, or even a significant minority of women are wired that way, or it would not be so common for women involved in hookups, one-night stands, or friends with benefits situations to destroy the casual relationship by attempting to turn it into a committed one.

The primary lesson here for women is that they need to apply the same skeptical lens to female advice that Game-savvy men habitually do and realize that the media figures do not define the norm.  Their task, however, is even more difficult, as they need to not only watch what the other women do instead of what they say, but also attempt to distinguish between what those women feel and what they say they feel.  That's a task that would be well beyond the vast majority of men, but perhaps would be possible given the more developed sense of female intuition.

55 comments:

Dorsey47 said...

When I read that she had faked orgasms, my mind immediately imagined her hampster spinning that to her favor. Less miles of cock if you don't count the faked orgasms. If this is the case, if we have found a hamster that is able to spin this form of rationalization, a new species may be evolving.

Anonymous said...

"Kate Bolick. Paging Kate Bolick. Kate? Are you there?"

Stingray said...

Their task, however, is even more difficult, as they need to not only watch what the other women do instead of what they say, but also attempt to distinguish between what those women feel and what they say they feel.

This task is nearly monumental in that, to do this, they have to set their own feelings aside first. The desire to be able to have no strings attached sex like a man and to be considered a stud rather than a slut with no repercussions (and to even have it be a plus as is the case for men) is profound. What adds to the task is all the women saying how wonderful it is (the herd) and the draw of that.

Cryan Ryan said...

Profound stuff here.

It is no wonder single women are so far left at the voting booth. She both needs and resents men now. She blames men for her own poor choices.

Now the pieces must be picked up - by men. Someone must pay to keep the woman in an apartment with water, electricity, heat, a good roof, and garbage removal. Men.

The only way a woman can do anything towards those ends is to vote for financial help - from men - to pay men to maintain the lifestyle for the old washed up woman, as she whiles away her remaining 40 years, alone.

The Dude said...

Let us not forget the bonding chemical they have becomes less and less with more cocks in the carousel. If you are the 25th guy she is with...you basically have no bonding with her and that's why she can fly the coop more easily. Or hate men altogether. Sluts make good hookups and bad wives.

Feminism...just another apple ladies bit into and they gave to men that turned into a lie.

Carlotta said...

I explained this as best I could to my daughters. I showed them some jewelery that I was saving for them to wear on special occasions when they are older. I then told them that they had to wait to wear it, but every single other person I could find would get to wear it, break it, steal a piece and throw it in the mud...but eventually they would get the diamond necklace.

Neither wanted it.

"Good, that is how a good man will feel about a women who has let every Tom, Dick and Harry feel up her goods around town."

Message received.

Women have been drained of self-preservation and common sense since birth by their own Mothers.

Some of us woke up, but fighting against a lifetime is hard.

Any articles on women doing the right thing coming in the future?

Steve Canyon said...

Honestly, I don't even think you can conclude she's being honest about her not orgasming during her time on the carousel. I'm coming to the conclusion that "I didn't orgasm" is to women like this what "I didn't inhale" was to Slick Willie. It's a means to de-slut themselves in the eyes of any Beta that may desire her. Kind of like saying "Oh yeah, I screwed every Alpha that winked at me, but I didn't orgasm so they meant nothing to me. Since it didn't mean anything, so you're wrong about me being a slut."

Should she marry one of those beta drones for whom she's not considering worthy of fulfilling her wedding fantasy, I guarantee you that after a couple times in the sack with him, she'll be fantasizing about at least one of those Alphas she bedded in her past.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

And our society think it's crazy to marry off teenagers...

Rollo Tomassi said...

The Difficulty of Gaming Women by Age Bracket:
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/the-difficulty-of-gaming-women-by-age-bracket/

23 to 27 year olds

Similar to the 18-22 year olds in terms of difficulty of picking up, with some important differences. The 23-27 year old feels she is at her attractiveness peak, despite her peak having passed a few years earlier. This is because she is surrounded by many more high status men than she was while in college (or working at the Piggly Wiggly) who are expressing sexual interest in her. This social dynamic will work to inflate her ego beyond the bounds of her actual beauty ranking. Some consequences result from this.

NEG HARDER. The 23-27 year old will require harder negging than any other age group of women, even the hotter 18 year olds. She needs her ego punctured before her pussy will open for you. Remember that cherished maxim:

Maxim #23: The defensive crouch is where pussy tingles are born.

DEFY EXPECTATIONS. She expects you to pay her way and play the role of earnest suitor. You can’t “hang out” with the 23-27 year old like you should with the 18-22 year old without staining yourself with the immaturity label, but you shouldn’t fall into her trap of arid, sexless dating either. Arrange dates that are simple and logistically favorable. Never spend more than two drinks’ worth of money on her on a single date.

DATE CONCURRENTLY. The 23-27 is, arguably, the most in-demand woman on the market. Various social factors account for this, which will be the subject of another post. Thus, she will have the greatest self-regard. Despite your best game, you may find yourself getting flaked on by a girl in this age range. A good defense is a solid offense, so minimize the creep of neediness and desperation by dating many women at once. Do not feel guilt about fucking multiple women concurrently.

THIS IS YOUR SWEET SPOT FOR GAME. No other woman will react as positively to hardcore game as the 23-27 year old. She and her sisters will be throwing meatballs at the middle of your lineup. Aim for the fences.

pdwalker said...

Carlotta,

Great Analogy!

I'm going to tell that to my little ones.

Anonymous said...

Honestly, I don't even think you can conclude she's being honest about her not orgasming during her time on the carousel. I'm coming to the conclusion that "I didn't orgasm" is to women like this what "I didn't inhale" was to Slick Willie. It's a means to de-slut themselves in the eyes of any Beta that may desire her.

No, this is way off base. "I just gave him a handjob" is the equivalent of "I didn't inhale."

She's being honest about not enjoying hookup sex. In my single days when I was having sex with men I didn't love, I didn't enjoy it, either. Not once. I enjoyed the moments leading up to it, but once it was happening, it just wasn't fun. That's the big secret about hookup sex for most women: the sex is unfulfilling. You don't admit it to yourself or anyone else at the time, because it would make what you're doing meaningless, plus you keep thinking it's going to get better with the next guy. It's only in retrospect that you'll admit how unsatisfying it was. These women should tell the younger sisterhood the truth about how boring hookup sex actually is, because these younger girls might actually think twice about doing it.

Jimmy said...

"These women should tell the younger sisterhood the truth about how boring hookup sex actually is, because these younger girls might actually think twice about doing it."

But they have thought twice about it and done it four more times.

The problem is they never done it in what might pass for a "committed" relationship. There is no comparable example of great sex with a long-term boyfriend or husband. We also have the truth of marital sex where the woman avoids sex with her husband. If sex so great in a marriage, why are women uninterested?

Men are interested in sex. For women, not so much. But for single women, they are doing their duty for personal gratification.

The Dude said...

"In my single days when I was having sex with men I didn't love, I didn't enjoy it, either. Not once. I enjoyed the moments leading up to it, but once it was happening, it just wasn't fun. That's the big secret about hookup sex for most women: the sex is unfulfilling. "

Thy name is solipsism.

"You don't admit it to yourself or anyone else at the time, because it would make what you're doing meaningless, plus you keep thinking it's going to get better with the next guy."

Thy name is hypergamy.

Anonymous said...

We also have the truth of marital sex where the woman avoids sex with her husband.

Yeah, but after how long? Isn't it usually pretty hot and heavy in the beginning of the relationship and then drops off? Also, some women use sex to lure a beta into marriage, and then turn it off once he's locked in.

If sex so great in a marriage, why are women uninterested?

Who said sex is so great in a marriage? Sex can be boring all the way around for some women, especially if they marry a beta. What married sex is missing that single sex has in abundance is the kind of personal gratification women crave, which is attention from a new guy. If men desire the novelty of sex with a new woman, women desire the novelty of attention from a new man. You're not going to get it by talking to him about Shakespeare. The best way to get it is to make yourself sexually available to him.

But for single women, they are doing their duty for personal gratification.

It's not physical gratification, I'll tell you that. As I said, it's about attention -- the thrill of the chase, the excitement of the unknown, the hope that sex with this new guy will be more fun.

The Dude said...

Well the media, Cosmo, any other brainwashing device convinces us that sex has to be the greatest thing to ever happen to you and if it isn't that person is not worth it. They plant unrealistic seeds into people. For men that women are goddesses to be worshiped and for women that he must please your every desire. In reality there are very few people that are good at sex...and it takes time getting to know each other for it to get better. Very few people are naturals at anything the first time.

TV, movies, and Cosmo don't have a clue what happens in the real world.

SarahsDaughter said...

"Thy name is solipsism."
"Thy name is hypergamy." -The Dude

Of course it is. Does a display solipsism or hypergamy negate the effectiveness of the anecdote?

"I enjoyed the moments leading up to it" -Anon

This. Young women should understand that this euphoria, as exciting as it is, is a facade. Thinking it is what defines or validates them leads to terrible decision making because of solipsism and hypergamy. I'm perplexed when those who seek to mentor women recognize women's innate features but deny equating them to the destructive behavior they seek to help eliminate.

Just as a woman should pause before speaking and run her thoughts through a logic filter, a woman should pause amid gratifying indicators of interest and say to themselves, "this is not about me" (solipsism check) or "the grass is not greener" (hypergamy check).








Jimmy said...

"Who said sex is so great in a marriage?"

The opposite was implied in the previous post. "the truth about how boring hookup sex actually is"

Maybe the truth is sex is boring for all women all the time so why not just save it for the marriage that you want later since it doesn't do much good for you now.

"It's not physical gratification, I'll tell you that. As I said, it's about attention -- the thrill of the chase, the excitement of the unknown, the hope that sex with this new guy will be more fun."

That is what I meant my personal gratification.

Susan Walsh said...

They need to not only watch what the other women do instead of what they say, but also attempt to distinguish between what those women feel and what they say they feel.

Indeed. And then they have to be aware that few women are capable of "having sex like a man," and to have the self-awareness to know whether they are one of those women. This self-awareness is clearly lacking in most of these sex-pozzies, most of whom wind up miserable and out of the biz. TCF's story is not unusual.

The Dude left some pretty funny comments at Slate after Marcotte quickly responded to my post with an interview featuring lots of backpedaling by TCF. "Conservative hand-wringing commentator" is Marcotte's pet name for me. :)

Thx for the link VD.

Anonymous said...

The opposite was implied in the previous post. "the truth about how boring hookup sex actually is"

No, it was not implied. You incorrectly inferred it. Whether or not hookup sex is boring has nothing to do with whether or not married sex is boring.

Maybe the truth is sex is boring for all women all the time so why not just save it for the marriage that you want later since it doesn't do much good for you now.

I don't know what the truth is for all women, but I don't think that's a message that will resonate with young women. They really need to be told that hookup sex is boring and will make them feel bad about themselves. You can also tell them truthfully that sex is potentially much better if you save it for your husband. Believe it or not, there are women out there enjoying sex with their husbands. For instance, there are polls indicating that Christian couples tend to be more satisfied with their sex lives than anyone else. Also, a man who applies Game principles, either naturally or in a practiced way, to his marriage likely has a wife who's interested in sex.

Jimmy said...

"You incorrectly inferred it."

Not really.

"Whether or not hookup sex is boring has nothing to do with whether or not married sex is boring."

Of course they have nothing to do with married sex.

Hookup sex does not equal married sex. They are opposites. You get different results with different circumstances and intentions.

"Believe it or not, there are women out there enjoying sex with their husbands."

Good to know.

Seems like you're just trying to win an argument than trying to make sense.

Shameful said...

Feminism is and always was ugly women taking a steaming dump on not only men but also pretty young women. So this isnt a bug of feminism, this is a feature.

MMR said...

I did the hook up thing twice when I was young but I never came away feeling empowered or satisfied. There is no possible way I could’ve gotten off. It was an act of self destruction and I was immediately disgusted with myself. I refused to speak to either of the guys ever again.

Philalethes said...

MMR said...
"I refused to speak to either of the guys ever again."

That'll show 'em.

Philalethes said...

"I think women rule the world, and that no man has ever done anything that a woman either hasn't allowed him to do or encouraged him to do." - Bob Dylan, Rolling Stone interview, June 21, 1984

Anonymous said...

Seems like you're just trying to win an argument than trying to make sense.

No, that would be you, my friend.

MMR said...

Philalethes said... "That'll show 'em."

It wasn't about punishing them. They were mistakes and there was nothing left to say.

Philalethes said...

MMR said...

"They were mistakes and there was nothing left to say."

Well, from your description it sounds to me like they were only accepting what you offered. If you later felt regrets, then the mistakes were yours, not theirs.

Not saying that you necessarily should have spoken to them again; I was just amused by the solipsistic style in which you describe the events....

SarahsDaughter said...

Philalethes, what part of "It was an act of self destruction and I was immediately disgusted with myself" did you not understand?

Of course the men were only accepting what was being offered. That is why I said earlier that women need to pause during the euphoria of being pursued and recognize that it's not about them, it's about the guy and his desire for sex. Most of what even attracted the guy was nothing the woman has done herself (height, body style, facial proportions etc). Women, through a solipsistic perspective, falsely assume that indicators of attraction from men can somehow contribute to a positive self image or are reflective of who she is when it's really no more than a sexual urge that is in no way unique for just her. This all becomes readily apparent after she wrongly chooses to have sex with him and it displays itself in regret, self loathing and embarrassment. So why would she do it again? Because the regret is not associated with the solipsistic euphoria. The regret is tied to the specific guy she had sex with. That is why she would never talk to THAT guy again.

Guys, you will never shame solipsism out of women. I think that has been well established. Women can learn how to pause and think outside of themselves but it is not what her brain first does. Information is received through an "all about me" lens and is usually not filtered past that. And, a personal anecdote is by definition an example of that person's specific experience. There is a difference between processing all incoming stimuli solipsistically and sharing a personal story that supports a topic being discussed.

Desert Cat said...

"Guys, you will never shame solipsism out of women."

The measure of deep red pill acceptance is moving beyond the Professor Henry Higgins mode ("why can't a woman be more like a man") to accepting woman for what she is, without delusions.

Women can be perfectly delightful for what they are good for, once you have purged yourself of blue pill stupidity.

Joe Blow said...

>>>She's right on schedule. In three more years she'll be declaring that there are no good men left, followed seven years later by loud and unconvincing declarations of how much she loves being single at 40.

Three reasonably attractive late 30's women, attorney colleagues of mine, were doing just this the other day at lunch. They were talking up how great single life is, they don't have to put up with some man's shit... the only real problem is cooking. You see, recipes aren't scaled for a single person, and it's too much hassle to make just a single serving of anything worth eating. So you have to make a huge batch of something, then either freeze it, or you eat it every night that week. Which sucks. But other than that, being in your late 30s, fit, relatively wealthy, and with no husband or boyfriend around RAWKS. It's awesome. We don't need a man around.

And all I could think, because I'm a typical male swine, is it'd be so easy to bag any one of the three at this point, particularly the one very athletic, still very attractive, fun, tall blonde, whom I mentored as a summer clerk and as an associate. She's been hot for me for years and once in a while sends unambiguous signals. I know why I would *want* to do that, but why would I *actually* go and do that? I've got enough notches - now getting dust filled - on the bedpost and a good wife of nearly 20 years. She coulda had me years ago, but at the time my wife and I got together, this woman might have slept with me but wouldn't have talked to me or considered me an LTR prospect.

So what are the odds I'm going to have to listen to these three women repeat this same conversation once every few weeks, until they or I move to a new firm or retire? Does the 40 year-old single woman conversation stay basically the same for the next 25 years, only with some cats added in?

LP 999/Eliza said...

Great truths.

Feminism is a lie and feminists lie. It both sad and unsurprising that so many young women trust what is ultimately deceptive advertising.

Philalethes said...

SarahsDaughter said...

"Philalethes, what part of 'It was an act of self destruction and I was immediately disgusted with myself' did you not understand?"

That was perfectly clear and understandable. It was the transition that followed that I found remarkable. The writer didn't say "I felt so bad I couldn't talk to the two guys ever again." Instead, given that "disgusted with myself" is certainly an unpleasant place to be, looks to me that her hamster immediately went to work to deflect some of the pain by finding reasons to regard the two "guys" with contempt. "They were mistakes" she says. Well, they may not be very nice guys, but in this instance their only crime was accepting what was (apparently) freely offered. How does that make *them* the mistakes?

"The regret is tied to the specific guy she had sex with. That is why she would never talk to THAT guy again."

Okay, I can understand how that works. And fine, she doesn't have to talk to anyone she doesn't want to. But don't make him the responsible party for the decision. If he is, that would imply that he should have protected her virtue (since she wasn't doing so) by refusing her offer. But isn't that the horrible old Patriarchy all over again? Grrrl Power means Grrrl Responsibility: two sides of one coin.

Is it any wonder men find women puzzling? Hot yesterday, cold today; what'd I do?


"Guys, you will never shame solipsism out of women."

No intent to "shame" anyone. Just remarking on something that struck me as remarkable. Are you saying women cannot learn? This one seems to be pretty good at it -- better than many young women today, if what I read can be believed (at nearly 70 and struggling with chronic illness, I'm not observing the contemporary SMP first-hand) -- at least in the situation described. If anything, I'm trying to encourage a little more learning from it. I'm sorry the writer had to go through such an unpleasant experience to learn, but that's how life seems to work; I hope her life since then has been more pleasant.

"There is a difference between processing all incoming stimuli solipsistically and sharing a personal story that supports a topic being discussed."

Well, there's an old saying: If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. This blog is about the truth, which sometimes may be hard to take. If a woman's feelings make her such a delicate flower that men must walk on eggs around her (sorry for the mixed metaphor), she probably shouldn't try to join this conversation.

LP 999/Eliza said...

"Feminism is a lie and feminists lie. It both sad and unsurprising that so many young women trust what is ultimately deceptive advertising."

Indeed. The female elders of our culture seem to be pretty nuts. But then, being a man, what do I know? The women are going to have to figure this out -- which will require first taking a good hard look in the mirror. Can they do it? Or maybe, after the Collapse, we'll just return to the old order without women having learned much of anything.

"I think women rule the world, and that no man has ever done anything that a woman either hasn't allowed him to do or encouraged him to do." - Bob Dylan, Rolling Stone interview, June 21, 1984

SarahsDaughter said...

I did notice that, her saying "They were mistakes." You're right, a bit of deflection there packaged in with a measure of personal accountability.

It is very hard to eat humble pie. It is encouraging to know more and more women are attempting to.

There is heat in this kitchen (as there should be) and thankfully there are women willing to raise their hand and say, yep that's me. It is a risk in two ways. They open themselves up to the understandable contempt from men that are just beginning their red pill journey. And they open themselves up to the hissing and clawing from the NAWALT crowd, "supplicating the blog host" is my new favorite crab in the bucket saying. (How do you keep a crab in a bucket? Put two of them in, one pulls the other down at every escape attempt.) You accurately saw my defense of a sister. :) "Don't be mean, she's a good one!"

MMR said...

Philalethes said...

"Well, from your description it sounds to me like they were only accepting what you offered. If you later felt regrets, then the mistakes were yours, not theirs."

I agree - they took what I gave freely. I've never blamed them - then or now. The decision was mine and I take full responsibility. I just couldn't stand to see/talk to them again. I was disgusted by the whole thing and was done with it and them.

Philalethes said...

SarahsDaughter: Thank you for your thoughtful reply to my post, a pleasure to read. I was not intending to be "mean", but basically, felt an impulse to point out something that was too good an example to pass up -- especially given that there was recently a big discussion here on the whole subject of female "solipsism". (And I see in the post following this one our host addresses the subject of "accountability", which is a biggie.)

MMR: Good to see you weren't scared away, despite SarahsDaughter's concern. Thank you for your reply and clarification. I am glad you were able to learn from your experience, and, as I said, I hope your life since has been more pleasurable and fulfilling.

God bless us every one.

Anonymous said...

The fact that many women don't enjoy casual sex does not mean that they don't use that excuse to de-slut themselves, à la "I didn't inhale".

It's like a former drug addict say: "Yes, I was a cocaine user. I had a very bad childhood. My parents divorced when I was 10".

The fact that this could very well be true does not imply that he is saying it as a way to de-emphasize their drug use. So people are sorry for him and so they judge him less severely.

A former slut will always say: "Well, I had a terrible period in my life. It was so awful. I only wanted to be loved and I was only looking for love. But I didn't enjoy it. I didn't even orgasm". Telling this, even if it is true, is telling she is a good girl and she made mistakes but her true self was non-slutty. A former slut says it frankly: she believes in this. This is the power of the hamster.

So, with you, it is different, with you, IT IS LUUUV. So another beta bites the dust and thanks God he has found a women with a pure and chaste heart, who only made some mistakes. This is the power of pedestalization.

If the beta had a time machine, he would see the girl enjoying attention of alphas even if she didn't orgasm. He would see this cupcake doing things he could never imagine and doing them willingly, happily and with a smile.

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