1. You're a BitchThis is true. Many women, far more women than most women honestly want to admit, are just bitches. They're mad at the world and they're going to take it out on anyone who gives them the opportunity. Most men who are even remotely attractive to women know this on some level and avoid such women like the plague.
Here's what I mean by bitch. I mean you're angry. You probably don't think you're angry. You think you're super smart, or if you've been to a lot of therapy, that you're setting boundaries. But the truth is you're pissed. At your mom. At the military-industrial complex. At Sarah Palin. And it's scaring men off. The deal is: most men just want to marry someone who is nice to them.
2. You're ShallowThis isn't true. It is downright false to claim that character is defined by one's willingness to commit to a relationship. In fact, it takes character to be willing to honestly and openly announce one's unwillingness to commit. Also, McMillan seems to not notice that by taking this position, she has damned nearly all women under the age of thirty as being of low character. Is a woman who is focused on her education or career of intrinsically low character? Should men not therefore behave accordingly?
When it comes to choosing a husband, only one thing really, truly matters: character. So it stands to reason that a man's character should be at the top of the list of things you are looking for, right? But if you're not married, I already know it isn't. Because if you were looking for a man of character, you would have found one by now. Men of character are, by definition, willing to commit.
That being said, Laundry List women are shallow and their shallowness does cause them to reject many men who might well make excellent husbands.
3. You're a SlutThis is true, but it misses the point. Men love sluts... but they don't want to marry women who have had sex with too many other men, with "too many" being a variable that primarily depends upon the man's own sexual history and sexual rank. A few men are fine with 20 or so, most find 10 to be the outside limit, and more than you might think consider 3 to be unacceptable. While it's true that emotionally bonding to unsuitable men doesn't help a woman get married, the bigger problem with sluttiness is that it renders a woman significantly less marriageable in male eyes. This doesn't mean that a known or perceived slut won't eventually get married, but she'll usually marry a lower quality, lower rank man than she could otherwise have obtained. That, or she'll misrepresent herself and build her marriage on a foundation of deceit.
Hooking up with some guy in a hot tub on a rooftop is fine for the ladies of Jersey Shore -- but they're not trying to get married. You are. Which means, unfortunately, that if you're having sex outside committed relationships, you will have to stop. Why? Because past a certain age, casual sex is like recreational heroin -- it doesn't stay recreational for long.
More on the rest later....
49 comments:
"Howevs, a good wife, even a halfway decent one, does not spend most of her day thinking about herself. She has too much s**t to do, especially after having kids. This is why you see a lot of celebrity women getting husbands after they adopt. The kids put the woman on notice: Bitch, hello! It's not all about you anymore! After a year or two of thinking about someone other than herself, suddenly, Brad Pitt or Harrison Ford comes along and decides to significantly other her. Which is also to say -- if what you really want is a baby, go get you one. Your husband will be along shortly. Motherhood has a way of weeding out the lotharios."
Is she seriously suggesting single momhood increases MMV?
In reference to point #1, she says Female anger terrifies men.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Wow. She really needs to see data on sexual abuse of children. All the lotharios leave, as do all single men who don't want baggage (most of them), but the child molesters show up. Besides, celebrities are 6 standard deviations away from the norm and uh, Jennifer Aniston....?
While articles like this are a step in the right direction, the problem with women trying to see things from our perspective is that they refuse to acknowledge the literal elephant in the room:
Reason 7 you're not married:
You're Fat
Grerp is the only women that I have ever read who acknowledged this.
No man with with any respect for himself should commit to a woman who has given her beauty and youth to other men. A sluttish woman who expects commitment from a man is in the same class as the man who marries a woman in her youth and chasteness, and then divorces her in 10 years.
The bitch thing is one key, and it comes from an over-inflated sense of self. "Men are intimidated by me. I'm so smart and so hot, they feel afraid to talk to me." Yeah, that's why they're hanging on that girl who looks like a top tier stripper at the end of the bar, right? Because she's so hot she's intimidating? "Entitled bitch" would be a more accurate description of this behavior. The model to look for is a woman who is kind, who thinks of others and does "caring" things for the BF and others; she gets an automatic +1 in my book.
As for the commitment - hah. Women are the ones with a problem with commitment. The ones who hit 30 unmarried generally spend the first 10 years of adulthood running from commitment, touting the importance of career, "I never want to have kids, soooo frightening" and "Woooooohooooo." They inevitably develop habits and mannerisms that put a serious guy off, becaued they come across as having an unstable personality (which they do), having morphed overnight from the career first/party girl, to the 30-something Serious Woman with baby rabies. Even when they genuinely want to settle down they give off so many contradictory vibes... It's like a huge flashing neon sign over their heads saying "neurotic... wants to get off the carousel... but has commitment issues and a high partner count."
And yeah, Beta_plus, she ain't getting any skinnier once you get married, so if she can't keep her fat ass from getting wedged in a booth at the Cheesecake Factory on Half Price Desert Night now, when she's going all out to attract a man, it doesn't bode well for her 10 years from now. She's either so entitled and delusional that she doesn't care, or she is just profoundly unaware of what makes women attractive to men. (Or maybe both). Either way, you're looking at a member of the FFA - Future Fatchicks of America.
Yeah right! Like Sandra Bullock, Charlize Theron, and all the other famous chicks that have adopted such cute little black sambo accessories are actually taking care of them. That's what their Mexican nannies are for. And really, what high quality guy wants more than a bang out of some goofy scorned bitch that's crazy enough to do something like that? I'm sure there's an army of guys at their doors waiting to become the SWPL poster-child portrait of the new American family (complete with I'm Not A Racist bi-racial baby).
"And yeah, Beta_plus, she ain't getting any skinnier once you get married,"
"She looks as good as she's EVER gonna get" - Living Colour, "Love Raises Up Its Ugly Head"
Vox:
McMillan is wrong that character is defined by willingness to commit to a relationship, or to one woman.
But she is right about this:
"Because if you were looking for a man of character, you would have found one by now."
Any reasonably attractive woman who wants to get married can find at least two upstanding DELTAs willing to walk her down the aisle tomorrow. But she doesn't want them.
I truly believe the women out there slutting it up with the alphas are out there doing exactly what they want. They are not in it "looking for love in all the wrong places". They are not in it because all the sex they have is frustrating their search for a husband. They are in it for the jackhammering they get from good looking, hot, alpha, dominant douchebags who do them good and then turn them over and do it again from behind, this time with feeling. Full stop.
deti
+1. I love this comment.
deti
Change the word men to lower beta, delta, omega (maybe) and she' right. How many men try to simply appease their women because they are afraid of a fight? Of getting yelled at by their girl?
Stingray
Men love sluts... but they don't want to marry women who have had sex with too many other men, with "too many" being a variable that primarily depends upon the man's own sexual history and sexual rank.
Just history, which is an indicator of the man's mentality as well. High ranking marriage minded or high ranking religious men aren't going to wife up a slut.
How about if she is a bitchy, slutty shallow chick?
I run into many of them. As a bonus, most of them are quite out of shape, not necessarily fat, but seriously out of shape.
I'm not counting the fatties. The reason they're not married is hugely obvious. The bigger they are, the more obvious it is. Oh, and don't think your tricks with clothing and stuff is going to hide that you're overweight from any quality man. We've been watching women since our young years, our eyes are not fooled.
men want nice, feminine, happy women who will great them when they come hine from work with a cocktail whilst wearing a dress and apron cooking dinner.
There's something off with the tone of this post.
Actually, high ranking religious guys do wife up sluts, for some value of "high ranking". See, Christ taught about forgiveness, and forgive and forget, and the Church teaches that ones sins are completely behind one after you get baptized. Catholicism particularly emphasis the story of Mary Magdalene being a former whore, and yet one of Jesus most favored disciples. So, What Would Jesus Do?
I wish I was being facetious. A lot of local gentry level of priests in former times were too naive to see it any other way. They'd marry the ex-whore/widow/ex-mistress, etc. It's a miracle, she's repented! Wow! This Church stuff really works!
I come from a long line of priests (Catholic, Anglican, etc), this is family history talking.
oh, SNAP.
somebody over at Vox Popoli just got served.
YohamiJune 14, 2012 12:21 PM
There's something off with the tone of this post.
with Vox's post?
i mean, yeah, McMillan's post has boatloads wrong with it. but Vox will pass over that just by saying, "Don't pay attention to what women say they want."
take this quote from the end of the article:
"The bottom line is that marriage is just a long-term opportunity to practice loving someone even when they don't deserve it. Because most of the time, your messy, farting, macaroni-and-cheese eating man will not be doing what you want him to."
get that? you don't "deserve" her love ... unless you're doing what she wants you to do and behaving the way she wants you to act.
if that isn't the distilled essence of modern womanhood, what is? a bunch of little princesses who have never in their lives learned to RESPECT anyone else.
SHould have already learned to not post before reading the linked article.
Wow, that woman is truly clueless. About 2 paragraphs in, I looked up to see where the link took me, and surprise surprise, it was Huff Ho. The reality free zone.
Yet, somehow (perhaps due to 3 failed marriages), she lucked into a couple correct summaries. I notice that none of her failed marriages were her fault, except for the fact that SHE couldn't pick the right man. Clueless.
Sure, Jesus was happy to convert Mary Magdalen into a loyal follower and hang out with her. But then He is God and can do that kind of thing. He can also make wine out of water, feed 5,000 with a picnic basket full of fish and bread and then go walk on water. I'm obliged to try to imitate Christ in a lot of ways, but I think it would be excessively literal to presume that I'm required to throw a fish dinner for everybody in the subdivision tomorrow night then go moonwalk across the deep end of my neighbor's pool...
That is an excellent question and one I do use. One thing you find is that it is not what a woman says, it is often how she answers questions. Like reverse piss tests, but consciously, I want to see her reactions to certain questions. I assume there is a good chance she will out and out lie, to almost anything. Or not know the answer, so simply not answer or flounder. I look for clues to her, rather than answers though. If I want answers, I become friends with her family and associates. Everything truthful comes out that way. But the questions must be asked.
Women honestly don't know often. Women think about a lot of things, and for as often as they look in the mirror, they rarely solidly reflect on that reflection. They are beautiful, attractive, they know it. Most sort of stop there. They don't like the real answers when they look closer. I don't either, in self reflections, but I don't mind ugly truths as much as not knowing.
Jestin, yeah, the post sounds like written by a female: shaming and emotional context instead of analysis and blunt honesty
http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/the-peacekeepers/
Thanks for the post. I'll disagree slightly with your take on #2, but think you were spot on with the others. A man of character, in this context, will be willing to commit. Presumably a man not interested in commitment and of character will have already made this clear to her and excluded himself from the pool of potential mates. There is also an assumption that the woman in question is serious about getting married and is looking for a spouse. So to speak of younger women getting an education etc as "therefore of low character" is just a red herring. They are not the people the article is talking about.
Plus you seem to basically agree with her overriding point. The laundry list of needs is a bad idea and just a recipe for disaster.
Speaking of that, ever noticed that the more a womans MMV decreases the _longer_ her laundry list of "must haves" grows? I suspect it is a product of producing a "gestalt male" in her head that is all the best features of all previous boyfriends with none of the bad features of all previous boyfriends. Somebody needs to tell these women they are kidding themselves.
Thanks again for the post. A stimulating read.
Another thought, someone noted that the author said (just read the article through)
"The bottom line is that marriage is just a long-term opportunity to practice loving someone even when they don't deserve it. Because most of the time, your messy, farting, macaroni-and-cheese eating man will not be doing what you want him to. But as you give him love anyway"
and that this was "man bashing". Ok maybe it was intended that way, but the article is addressed to women not men and every bit of it (unless there is an assumption that the wife is perfect the way she is) is actually true. Marriage is exactly that, a long term opportunity to practice being "other person centered". It is true for both spouses. If you think about it, this is really advice not to expect marriage to provide a perpetual emotional high, and that is actually really really good advice to give because marriage can never provide that.
Sorry, to what question are you referring?
We both know we are imperfect. That is the point of marraige. Commitment to each other and raising your kids to be succesful means putting others needs ahead of your own.
The happy Mrs. knows I ignore PMS. Know's I don't tolerate BS. She occaionally gets hormanely deprived. I tend to ignore it. She thanks me later.
How many men try to simply appease their women because they're afraid of a fight?
The answer of course is NONE.
>>Speaking of that, ever noticed that the more a womans MMV decreases the _longer_ her laundry list of "must haves" grows?
You don't expect her to confront herself about why a relationship failed or why she is alone, do you? That would take an almost masculine sort of simple mindedness, courage and acceptance of the situation. It's easier for her to say, "men are dicks" and ignore the possibility that she may have been partly to blame. She *knows* for a fact that she is perfect (at least when she isn't wallowing in self-hatred), so she has to rationalize away the failed relationship. It can't be her fault... what was it that the asshole did to drive her off? Didn't pick up socks, didn't talk about his emotions enough... whatever. Each failed relationship adds new factors to the requirements list, along with the stuff that other assholes did to her girlfriends, who are also perfect.
So the passage of time lowers her SMV, but her list of qualifications grows longer, as if her SMV were rising. I think there's another paradox here. It's difficult for a straightforward beta sort of chap to approach a woman who hides behind a fortress of rationalizations, but a woman with this mindset has a fragile ego and poor self-awareness, making her vulnerable to con men who seem perfect, and PUAs who chip away at her confidence.
The reason why most people are not married or do not stay married is because they do not see the point of it. You will not see the point of it, unless you are serving the Lord. The culture in the US has shifted to the point where for women and men it would be a downer to be married. You are penalized for it. You lose out on what most people consider important in life.
What they then realize, at about forty, is they are not going to always be young and hot. They can not always score. They cannot always get a good paying job. No one cares a crap about them. If they get sick or injured they are on their own and now are prey to every lower life form that seeks to leach off them in return for wiping their butt.
They realize that they will be, if lucky, institutionalized until they can no longer pay the bill or die after endless years of being force fed mashed "food" and having their most intimate needs "cared" for by people they would not have walked on the same side of the street as.
But it is all too late.
Which is why aging startlets are buying babies and aging men are hitching up and making babies.
Get married young, have children, build a family, be cared for well while you are elderly? Nah! Just more of God trying to tell me not to have fun.
Sad really.
Josh - couldn't agree with you more. It is exactly what my husband says to me. Thanks for keeping it simple.
Your juvenile, brainless mockery aside, recall that forgiveness requires genuine repentance - so a woman merely pretending to repent, but actually doing so, is not forgiven.
Plus, forgiveness does not mean that one does not have to face the consequences of one's actions - no where does the Bible say that you have to marry a whore if she is forgiven - God (and man) no longer holds her guilty of the sin, but this does not change the fact that she slept with tons of dudes and is not exactly wife material.
Forgiving the sin does mean the person gets off scot-free - in any Christian society even if a robber repents he still goes to jail, after all.
Coming from a long line of priests I am surprised that you don't understand this...guess you were too eager to do some Christian bashing to actually use your brain for a couple of seconds...
BTW my post above is talking to Tiger and not Joe...should have specified...sorry...
OT: I'd love to read your response to Heartiste's challenge to economists (on the consequences of automation). The comments on the post were pretty retarded.
Mary Magdalene was not a prostitute. She was a demoniac delivered by Jesus. Nor could she be said to be a "favoured" disciple, although Jesus teaching women was definitely odd by contemporary standards.
Jason
"Also, McMillan seems to not notice that by taking this position, she has damned nearly all women under the age of thirty as being of low character."
Part of me edges towards thinking she's on to something here, but I don't think its merely women who fall into this category. The under-thirties I know are far more likely to still be living with their parents than people over-thirty vis-a-vis at the same age in their own lives.
This isn't a product of economic conditions, as many of them have income that would provide the means to live outwith their parents' homes. Part of the imminent death of Western civilization stems from the fact juvenile adolescence has been artificially extended well into mid twenties and beyond in the case of the more affluent.
Who has time start a family and make a home when you're busy being a rockstar without the hassle of playing instruments?
Yep broke the freshness seal on the wedding night. Kid's are overachievers with both parents who support them. What girl would want that?
Yeah, this notion that MM was a prostitute - it's made by taking a big leap that really isn't needed/supported in the Bible.
Or, she's committed to Slate's series on the "decision" to "remain" child-free.
She may be otherwise unfruitful, but she gives birth to new hamsters like a Gatling gun shoots bullets.
Ugh, that child-free movement has continued. In it was the trendy thing to group up with the child-free events. It is beyond selfishness, that group promotes the over-population meme.
Great post Vox.
I tend to wonder if some women (or men not that I am referring to them in this instance) are dysfunctional, deficient, defective or perhaps flakes. There is a kind of woman who is just not good interacting with men no matter how much she tries. It could be a defect or some kind of immaturity - I don't know, just over-thinking the issue...Shallowness seems to run concurrent with a level of insensitivity or an inability to step up as women and become the wives and mothers they were meant to be.
LP999/Eliza said:
"There is a kind of woman who is just not good interacting with men no matter how much she tries. It could be a defect or some kind of immaturity"
Sure, there are lots of women like that. Any that are 1) irritating, 2), disloyal, 3) indolent, 4) irresponsible, or (probably most of all) crappy in bed are going to come off to a man as exactly those. The only question is how long it takes for him to make that assessment (ideally before merging finances/cohabitation/marriage/having children with her, certainly).
Hmm, re: Women are shallow. of course many are. My question, why do you say character is the only thing that matters? all men of the manophere agree : biology wins. Why do you not take this into account for women too? When looking for or choosing a mate, whether consciously or not, genetics play a role in selection.
Some care more about looks and money, but at it's core - looks are important bc they imply health, money bc they imply ability to support and lead to the healthy growth of a child. I would argue genetics is MORE important for women, that being selective with who we "breed" w/ more of a process since w have a limited time, limited egg supply and btw.. we're the ones carrying that thing for 9 months then delivering it in a sea of blood, blinding pain etc.
Also, youre a slut. ok, I get it. many have harangued me for this. I just actually think its HILARIOUS you mention the jersey shore chics since both are engaged and one has a kid... sooo.. yea.
But you also say past your 20's casual sex is addictive, I fnd this fascinating as it has been the complete opposite for me. As I turned like 28-29 the idea of it (I was dating someone at the time which probably played a role - we have since broken up, bout 9 mos ago and ive slept w 1 person, it sucked, not fun) is ... not interesting to me anymore.
Its not fun. It's... blah, and I LOVE sex. But why have it if its not fun? then again I don't have an addictive personality in general. I tend to be more "abusive". the "slut" thing was.. 3 years of an otherwise chaste existence, now It has lost its appeal. I saw the same for many of my gf's. Perhaps the women you speak of are this "slut for life" type - id like to meet one someday.
Otherwise... spot on!
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Sorry, there are double standards..
One small example would be crying... Acceptable for women over many small things, not acceptable for men..I doubt many women would be attracted to guys who cried almost daily over any small thing.
I am pointing out that sex is vastly different for men and women.. That is how we are made.. Even the girl who says she has casual sex without emotions points out the sex she had was with people she was already emotionally connected to, her friends.
I have found that the most insecure women are the most sexual. Making a guy cum seems to be a quick fix for their insecurities. of course aftewards they feel like trash, or are so cold that they lack feelings completely.
I have NEVER met a secure, balanced, confident woman who could just have sex, get up, leave, and feel happy never seeing the person again.
Sorry, there are double standards..
One small example would be crying... Acceptable for women over many small things, not acceptable for men..I doubt many women would be attracted to guys who cried almost daily over any small thing.
I am pointing out that sex is vastly different for men and women.. That is how we are made.. Even the girl who says she has casual sex without emotions points out the sex she had was with people she was already emotionally connected to, her friends.
I have found that the most insecure women are the most sexual. Making a guy cum seems to be a quick fix for their insecurities. of course aftewards they feel like trash, or are so cold that they lack feelings completely.
I have NEVER met a secure, balanced, confident woman who could just have sex, get up, leave, and feel happy never seeing the person again.
Sorry, there are double standards..
One small example would be crying... Acceptable for women over many small things, not acceptable for men..I doubt many women would be attracted to guys who cried almost daily over any small thing.
I am pointing out that sex is vastly different for men and women.. That is how we are made.. Even the girl who says she has casual sex without emotions points out the sex she had was with people she was already emotionally connected to, her friends.
I have found that the most insecure women are the most sexual. Making a guy cum seems to be a quick fix for their insecurities. of course aftewards they feel like trash, or are so cold that they lack feelings completely.
I have NEVER met a secure, balanced, confident woman who could just have sex, get up, leave, and feel happy never seeing the person again.
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