Friday, April 20, 2012

Young men are noticing

I've written before about how women tend to treat those to whom they are close much worse than they treat complete strangers. This, of course, is one reason why female friendships seldom tend to last as long as male friendships do. I've never quite understood myself why women will make the effort to get all dolled up for the office or a girl's night out, only to swap it all for a bare face and the usual sweatpants when they get home in order to ensconce themselves in front of the television more comfortably.  Of course, it could be worse.  At least she's not out running around in lingerie or a bikini, right?

So is it just attention-mongering? Female competition? Taking the sure thing for granted? It's clearly not "dirty ovulating whore syndrome" as some male pessimists would have it, not when they're getting back at a reasonable hour instead of coming home in the early hours smelling of some other man's aftershave.

I should mention that I got this image from Rollo's blog, but I'm taking it in a different direction than he did with his discussion of how enthusiastic marital sex appears to have recently become a porn niche.

What I'm interested is the way in which the combination of changes in the sexual marketplace and increased exposure to the risks and realities of marriage through the medium appear to be significantly changing young men's objective's concerning marriage. Consider this recent article from the New York Times:
In 1997, about 35 percent of young men and 29 percent of young women said that having a successful marriage was “one of the most important things” in their lives. Today, for some reason, the shares have reversed. These attitudinal changes have occurred alongside a delay in age of first marriage, which is now at a record high.
Fewer than a third of young men, 29 percent, now believe that having a successful marriage is one of the most important things in life. I suspect this is because they see it as being akin to deciding that "riding a unicorn" is your primary objective in life; one is doomed to disappointment in pursuing the nonexistent. The fact that "66 percent of women 18 to 34 years old said that being successful in a high-paying career or profession was “one of the most important things” or “very important” in their lives" compared to 37 percent who now put a similar priority on marriage may also be a factor in the declining interest in marriage among young men.  But it's particularly interesting to see that young women's belief in the desirability of a successful marriage has increased, and I wonder what could be behind that in light of how women are still the driving force in ending most marriages today.

70 comments:

Ryan said...

Wow - only a third of young women think having a successful marriage is one of the most important things?

This must be while they are still riding the carousel - I presume more of them think a marriage is important after they hit 30 or so?

Anyway, perhaps young women are running into more and more men who are telling them "sorry babe, I can screw you for awhile but marriage is too risky"...and they know what he means because it is becoming clear (even to women) that men are really putting their neck on the block when they take the plunge.

Stingray said...

Female competition. Also as a confidence boost for dealing with strangers. It is a failure of the wife to not do these things for her husband (and I say this as one who often fails. I am remedying the situation, but too slowly, I think. Jeans are far to prevalent for my attire).

Anonymous said...

"I've written before about how women tend to treat those to whom they are close much worse than they treat complete strangers. "

Steve Sailer recently wrote of how liberalism makes use of leap-frogging loyalties.

rycamor said...

The 90s was the height of girlpower in the USA, and men were still playing up to that. Just look at how annoying the 90s sitcoms were. What other decade would have made a star out of someone like Alanis Morissette? Now, men have stopped playing, and women are finally noticing. He who cares less tips the balance of power.

I find it interesting that men are also less interested in the job/career game. Atlas beginning to shrug, or at least twitch his shoulders a little?

Anonymous said...

"I've never quite understood myself why women will make the effort to get all dolled up for the office or a girl's night out, only to swap it all for a bare face and the usual sweatpants when they get home in order to ensconce themselves in front of the television more comfortably. Of course, it could be worse. At least she's not out running around in lingerie or a bikini, right?

So is it just attention-mongering? Female competition?"



20 or so years ago I learned from a girlfriend of mine that (her words): Women dress for other women.

So one would have to chalk this up to female competition. I don't think anything has changed over that time period in this respect.

SarahsDaughter said...

It's gardening and landscape season (I don't know how the commercials can make it look so feminine, I'm usually head to toe dirt.) When I go in public it's in route to the gym. I think my husband is happy now if I'm just clean.

I am really starting to see feminism's backlash in the vitriol of young guys. They just aren't going to put up with crap. Not getting married, ˝no I'm not buying ___ for you, " etc. Young women seem to be lost in a fog, completely unaware of the young men's anti-marriage perspective and totally clueless as to the reasons why. Men can be happy for now they aren't being forced by law to marry these solipsistic princesses.

Stingray said...

This particular topic isn't crap though. This is something that was taught not too long ago.

The Good Wife's Guide

HeligKo said...

I think fundamentally that question is loaded. I don't know a man who gets married who doesn't want a successful marriage. As that becomes less possible, they drop that off the list of things to accomplish. The side effect is men don't want to do something that won't be successful, so marriage is something that they are less inclined to do. Women on the other hand may say that a successful marriage is not as important to them, but that does not mean that marriage is not attractive to them, and something they want to do. I believe that with the different social and psychological makeups of men and women, these answers just don't imply the same thing. Without opportunity for success, men begin to opt out. I see more and more men choosing to date very long term while maintaining separate households. A five or ten year dating stretch is successful. A five or ten year marriage is a failure. Men will go where they can be successful, and if dating begins to look like modern marriage, then men will opt out of that too. Men already have stopped thinking that dating is a pathway to marriage.

The scary part is that (@SarahsDaughter) I see a future where if the feminist establishment isn't knocked down, men will become breeders and feeders. We will be paired with a woman by a bureaucracy, and then mating or at least the insemination will be done, and he will be responsible for paying for his mate and children. He may have no other rights to his children is this paradigm. I sure hope we men have more fight in us than this, but as pathetic as we have been over the last 100 years in accepting the feminist ideas, I am not sure we do. I fear for my sons.

rycamor said...

Indeed

Aleph One said...

"I've written before about how women tend to treat those to whom they are close much worse than they treat complete strangers." Or their dogs.

Whose a good dog? Are you a good dog? Yes, you are! Yes, you're a good doggie woggie!

Hurry up and get your fucking shoes on, we're going to be late!

Who is a good doggie woggie....

SarahsDaughter said...

If women stopped to think about their true inner (lack) of happiness and contentment and the sheer amount of drugs they take to get through life, they might come to understand the "good wife" is actually a good deal.
Rewritten today it's:
-text him to tell him to pick up dinner and the kids
-schedule your girl's scrapbooking weekend (you really deserve the time off)
-remind him that his share of the chores are not done
-tell your other fat friends that he needs to love you for who you are, not what you look like
-sit down in your moo moo and relax watching what you DVR'd from OWN
-get on a blog and snark at the anti-feminists that they'll make it to Stockholm just as soon as there's an award for baking...bahh ha ha

SarahsDaughter said...

I forgot to add (though it's been my single cat lady FB friends talking about it), grab some new batteries and read another chapter of "50 shades of grey."

DW said...

-put out no more than once a month, don't want to give him any wrong ideas now!
-sarcasm should be your native language
-fat is beautiful, everybody loves fatties otherwise there wouldn't be so many of them
-nag him or he'll forget

stg58 said...

My wife said the same thing. They dress for other women, but their actual physical appearance (body/muscle tone etc.) is for men.

Stingray said...

Yes, because a woman with muscle tone and a good body is often slightly, and sometimes even overtly, degraded when around other women.

Cindy Lyles said...

As a female raising two girls, I think it is how you raise the girl. I remember being about nine or ten (back in the 70's) and watching my mother apply makeup in the morning, before dad left for work. She told me a number of times growing up that 'you should always look your best for your husband'. I only wish more clothing manufacturers made warm winter pj's that were sexy - being thin means being cold - a lot - and bulky (warm) layers are just not sexy. And yes, I am raising my girls the way I was, even if it is against today's standard. Husband takes priority. Kids come next. Then everything else.

Stickwick said...

Oh, but a nice tight pair of 501s can show off the tush so nicely.

Agreed on the reasons women dress up for strangers. Women slack off with their husbands, because they take them for granted, and that probably has something to do with the relative SMVs of the husband and wife. My husband recently put himself on a strict workout routine and is not only looking better, but acting more aggressive and confident. I just realized that at the same time, I started to dress more nicely and put more effort into doing my hair the way he likes it. Interesting how that works.

stg58 said...

Jealousy?

Stingray said...

I think so, yes. Though I think a small part of this is in seeing someone thin is a more rare occurrence these days. I caught myself doing this one day walking out of a store. There was a very thin girl of about 15/16 walking out and I thought "Holy cow. She is way too thin." I stopped myself short, turned to look at her more closely and she was not too thin. Only one rarely sees girls in that kind of shape these days and it took me aback. I was pretty disgusted with myself for my first thought.

Anonymous said...

"I fear for my sons."

Why? Your sons have the knowledge now thanks to Generation X. Continue to educate them and you will have no worries.

Anonymous said...

Guys in my generation - the shock troops of Gen X - were starting to get it and responded rationally to to it with all the slacker stuff. All my friends were either pump & dumpers, or like me maintained a little harem of booty calls. But the X-Box Guys have responded to it more fully. From the sounds of it many of them don't even bother with pump & dump or the hassle of maintaining a harem.

Based on the grousing about the low quality of men these days, women don't seem to have grasped the way they've turned the tables. This is what they asked for, the destruction of expectation of marriage and family ("I find those roles so imprisoning...") and erection of an expectation that women should focus on having a really good career and chase purely personal goals, while rejecting any traditional female roles. It's not the first time I've noticed women to get exactly what they say they want, and then be exceedingly unahppy with it - the tough thing here being that you can act like an idiot between 20 and 30, but you may have to pay for your stupidity until you die. So it is with women who squander their peak reproductive years and years of peak physical attractiveness. It's easier to catch a man if your face doesn't wobbly when you tilt your head at him...

After another generation or two of this, younger women may get the message and start rejecting the insanity of second gen feminism, think about making establishing a family a priority, and how to make themselves actually attractive to men. Not sure how they're going to culturally evangelize and bring men back into the fold though; guys like me aren't going to pull any punches when we talk with our sons about dating and marriage.

This trouble all stems, of course, from the Feminist maxim that biology is not destiny. That may be true in the moral sense, and equal pay for equal wages are a good thing, but the body does what it was evolved to do over eons, and putting fingers in one's ears and repeating loudly "biology is not destiny" does not somehow alter the genetic makeup of who we are, or how our bodies respond to stimulus.

Daniel said...

Yeah, I know. I'm shocked that there were still so many who thought this, too.

The problem with women who "realize" the importance when they are 30 is that they are 7 years older than the 30% of 23 year olds who have made marriage a priority.

In other words, although haven't exactly fallen off the girl tree, they aren't as ripe, or as low-hanging, as their younger counterparts, and their peer-age men are looking at the tree, not them in particular.

It's kind of the old "I'm fat, but you are ugly, and I can lose weight." As men gain money as they age, they lose "fat," and can avail themselves to 25 year olds. Their peer women have ugly (age), and when they approach younger men, they are seen as cougars, not potential brides.

Orion said...

You are missing a vital point. The more success the feminist have the more they tear down the society that allowed them to flourish. Since they are totally unequipped to create a replacement society that would provide the same standard of living the concept of relegating men to breeder/feeder basically falls apart. Fear for your children only in how far things will slide and how they are restricted from rebuilding. The current power structure has little interest in long term viability, they seek short term profit which is enabled by the chaos they foster.

Luke said...

Anonymous said this on 4/20/12 @ 8:21 AM:

"This trouble all stems, of course, from the Feminist maxim that biology is not destiny. That may be true in the moral sense, and equal pay for equal wages are a good thing, but the body does what it was evolved to do over eons, and putting fingers in one's ears and repeating loudly "biology is not destiny" does not somehow alter the genetic makeup of who we are, or how our bodies respond to stimulus"

Uh, except that higher pay for married men, especially those married men with children in the house, was a nontrivial societal support for traditional marriage and family.

To quote C.S. Lewis:

"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

Kyrond said...

"My husband recently put himself on a strict workout routine and is not only looking better, but acting more aggressive and confident."

Sounds like someone's been reading MMSL, and the MAP is working perfectly.

Ryan said...

"..We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

Indeed.

Or could be stated, "we castrate them and tell them to man up".

Stickwick said...

He's never heard of MMSL. After several years of marriage and a job that requires 70+ hrs/week, people sometimes slack off. But now he wants to be really fit for a reunion with his buddies from his Special Forces days, and he also wants more of an edge in his hockey league. I personally couldn't care less what his motivation is, I'm just pleased that it's bringing a spark back to our marriage.

HeligKo said...

I fear for them because things can go either way. We will either break free of the oligarchy that is being created, or they will be stuck in an even worse feminist oligarchy that has become a place where the only men that aren't completely subjugated are the ones enforcing the the subjugation of the feminist police state.

Anonymous said...

Those 35% of women that are actively looking for marriage minded men start young and snap up the 29% of men looking for a strong marriage themselves. They can usually sell marriage to the less inclined men as well, cause they are young and hot and its still a pretty good deal to many men at that age, so they all tend to get what they want.

By early to mid 30s when the other 65% of women start to think about marriage they are left with the 71% of men that were less interested in the first place ( less the few that got married anyway to the younger hotties). So they have to try to sell something to men they didnt want in the first place, using degraded currency.

And then they write articles in the atlantic about being empowered single women, and buy cats.

Mike M. said...

Good point, Vox.

On the one hand, I can see a woman coming home from work and wanting to change into something less formal. On the other hand, it sends a subtle message of contempt - that she'll dress nicely for strangers, but not for her husband.

It may be worth mentioning that home economics books from around 1950 advised young wives to make a point of dressing UP before their husbands got home.

Anonymous said...

My $0.02: it isn't that my wife doesn't 'dress up' for me when I arrive home its that she doesn't greet me with a beer (or glass of iced tea, whatever). Men have a need to be respected; women, loved.
I view the act of a wife dressing up, or having a Dr Pepper ready on ice, for her man as a sign of her answering his innate need for respect. There are many other small things that a wife could do that would also suffice.

Shutterbug said...

Dressing up before my husband gets home isn't entirely possible as we live on an acreage and he works from home. Both of us are usually doing manual labor involving dirt and poop. Heels just don't work. :) But I keep my hair long and wear a ponytail with a cap (he LOVES that!)while working and wear a little makeup even if I'm not going anywhere that day. Here's a little tip: cut a deep v-neck in that stained-up work shirt, but don't wear it if you're bucking bales of hay. There's nothing more uncomfortable than hay in your bra.

John Q. Public said...

Dressing up isn't always necessary. Take that comfortable T-shirt and sweatpants, chop off the sleeves and legs, cut away the lower half of the shirt, and a decently fit woman will look pretty good in it.
Judging from friends' wives, their behavior isn't about comfort so much as about wanting to discourage masculine attention from their husbands, which leads us back to the issue of the husbands' Game, which, in my friends' cases, sucks.

Anonymous said...

Women dress for other women because other women will notice the particulars.
--I like the way your shoes continue the look of your blouse.
--Your purse and coat are perfect negatives of each other.
--the peach color looks great with your skin color

Men don't notice or compliment regarding the extra artistry.

Markku said...

husbands' Game, which, in my friends' cases, sucks

Does it now, JQP? Would they perhaps do well to learn Game?

Daniel said...

Easy solution. Don't wear the bra.

The fact is, wives on acreages are at a distinct advantage: they usually smell like horses and the only accessory they need to employ to spice things up is an elegant and filled out shoulder holster.

The rules are a little different on the farm.

Different and better.

Anonymous said...

As a side note. Young men are also failing...at game.

So I'm out in a college town last nite. Small bar, live band. Of course I move away from the crowd. Head to the stair well where I can enjoy my beverage and watch the band. Soon several girls gravitate to my general direction and start dancing just a few feet away. In fact, I'd say it was more like 70-80% of the fem's in the bar. Lots of eye contact, smiles and a few body brushes. Some nice hair playing along with it from a 8 brunette in a rather sweet short dress. I'm a little bit tempted to close on her...but committed to a short evening before slipping by one of my fwbs.

Eventually all the boys start making their way to where all the action is in my general area. But at the same time they are very careful not to invade my space. Lots of excuse me man/bro etc as they are bumping into each other in the tight well. All the while staying a good two feet away from me as they pass by. I start thinking this reminds me of my first dance back in 7th grade. Where all the boys gather together and gawk at the girls. No game at all. Can't say I feel for any of them. The opp's are there for the taking.

Then I move downstairs away from the annoying cadre of hard legs. The brunette dress and her 3 friends follow. I notice two more groups come down stairs as well. Now it's time for me to leave after dropping down the rest of my second. Just to keep my game sharp I drop by the brunette dress table, smile and tell her that stair dancing is somewhat underrated these days. Her friends laugh, all eyes on me. She blushes, looks down, then back up at me...and follows up with an intro. Then she asks me my name. I tell her it's "another time" and walk out the door.

As I cross the street to my ride. My peripheral catches her and her 3 friends following me out. I catch a "bye another time" from her as I open my door. I throw a wink and a smile her way before I'm outta there...

Anonymous said...

My wife once gave me three useful "hints" at getting more sex out of her. First, she said, for me to be more spontaneous, and surprise her with more things like cards and gestures, especially sexual onces to arouse her. Second, she said, that she was more willing to have a night of sex if she didn't have to get up early the next day. Third, she said, was to only try to initiate sex if she showers before she somes to bed, since she feels more comfortable.

Taking these three pieces of advice, I used them to make a point. I took a card with sexual gestures in it and hung it in the shower. As soon as she found the card, she called me at work and complimented it, particularly surprised I would start something like that on a Monday morning. I then told her that I hid the card in the shwer for her on Friday evening, and if she would have taken a shower any time between getting off work on Friday and getting ready for work on Monday, she would have found it.

I know it was a gamma thing to do, but I frankly didn't care. I wanted her to have evidence that the guidelines she created to pass responsibility for our sexless marriage to me where conveniently arranged so I could never live up to them. The only times she was available she wasn't "ready" and the only time she was ready she wasn't available.

Gamma as it was, I did want her to see I wasn't too stupid to notice. I suspect a lot of husbands are put in situations where they cannot possibly succeed, yet somehow it is supposedly their fault.

Anonymous said...

So your wife isn't showering all weekend. Are you sure that she isn't depressed or something, because that is gross not normal behavior.

Anonymous said...

That weekend was a bit of the extreme. She usually showers before church on Sunday morning. She also tends to take showers before bed on week nights so she can sleep a bit longer before work.

My point to her was that she never comes to bed showered when she is off the next day, which conveniently rules out her conditions for sex: "only when i'm showered and don't have to work the next day."

Duke of Earl said...

Hi Vox, I thought this might provide you with a few minutes of amusement.

Christian women have running hamsters too.

Anonymous said...

I have two sons, still have a couple of years in the "girls are icky" paradigm. I'm adamantly opposed to them getting married or reproducing. I'd rather them be happy than me enjoy grandchildren. But how to approach this with them? They are smart enough to read between the lines that "if I knew then what I know now, you would never have been born". Which isn't really true either, because if I'd knpwn then how much I'd love them, I'd have taken the risk even knowing what I know now.

John Q. Public said...

It appears they don't want to. I've become convinced that the average white man today wants a surrogate mom instead of a wife.

The Last Gentleman said...

Maybe you made your point, but you are still playing her game. Stop pouting and make her play yours.

"Awesome dinner tonight, Babe. Now go ahead and have your shower and relax a bit. Doctor's orders." Give her a smack on the behind. DON'T APOLOGIZE. "You just looked like you needed it." Leer a bit, if you have to.

If she refuses, just turn it around: "Oh, so someone wants to be a dirty girl tonight? I can deal with that too..." Major points if you can get her to slap your arm.

If she doesn't fall for it that night, don't act the least bit concerned. Just let it sit in her mind awhile. She'll jump you sooner or later.

The point is... playful domination most days, and then every once in awhile act like a complete Beta wuss and give her a foot massage and a kiss and tuck her into bed. Works like a charm.

Markku said...

John Q. Public It appears they don't want to. I've become convinced that the average white man today wants a surrogate mom instead of a wife.

That wasn't the question. Before you left, you were the most outspoken against Game of all the regulars. So, your mention of your friend lacking Game raises my eyebrows, as you might imagine.

Carlotta said...

Well, being fed donuts must get old after a while, right LOL. I am with ya girl.

Carlotta said...

Hi Cindy, with you. Though I have children of both sexes, I am working very hard to teach my girls by example too. I need really good bait to catch the fish I want for them. This includes me. I don't want a man running from them because of me :) Is that wrong to try to be hot for a future son-in-law so that he want to marry my daughters? LOL.

Here is a tip. There are NOT sexy winter jammies. That is why you LOAD the bed with down comforters, real wool blankets and flannel sheets. Himself does not allow me to wear anything to bed (HEHE) and this is the only way I am not freezing...ok, not the only way...and that other way certainly makes you feel warmer LOL.

Carlotta said...

Anon, did you ever tell her this? It could be that she is doing what she THINKS you would like. I have done that many times. My Husband has done that to me.

You could sweetly tell her that you would love it if when you got home she greeted you with a drink it would make your day today. Then when she does it, tell her that if she did that everyday you would rush home.

Himself likes when I put out all his clothes every morning. He doesn't need me to. He asked me to once, and then kept asking me until we got into a fight (I went all feminazi LOL) and he told me he liked it. Now I do it everyday. Even when he pisses me off. Just like he pays the bills everyday, even when I piss him off :)

Tell her!

Carlotta said...

Shutterbug, you are doing what works for you. On the weekends, I am often in the same position as you. So I through on some perfume and a push up bra. Himself likes to peek down my shirt whenever possible and then you can always keeep saying how you will need him to scrub the dirt off you in the shower later....

Carlotta said...

Do you have small children? If so, take them and force her to have some alone time in the bath tube with a romantic book and then take it from there.

Otherwise, why can't you just say you won't have sex with her if she stinks? Sheesh!

Carlotta said...

My Great Grandmother told my Mother and I to never let your Husband see you without your hair done and your makeup on. My Grandmother also was always well made up. My Mother was worked like a dog and only had chance to look nice when she had some time off from both the kids/house and work...hence getting dolled up to go out with the girls and wearing sweats when home and recuperating.

I work hard all day (home with young children and have to maintain a large property). I have begun teaching my children that when Daddy is on his way home (he calls) I need to take a shower and dress(undress) for him. If we are going out, we dress nicely to represent our family. If I am all dolled up when we are doing stuff on our property Himself gets pissed at me. So I do the pushup bra/perfume/nice hair method under work clothes I mentioned above.

If I think his interest is waining a bit, I perk things up as he is leaving for work and tell him I might go out to do something. Gives him something to think about all day :)
I think you can easily tailor it to your man.

Carlotta said...

Why? Are you a complete and utter wuss? It is hard, but it can be done. Why don't you raise them to be Men who have high standards instead of quitters in the game of life before they even start?

We are out here raising sons and daughters too you know!

SouthTX said...

Lady. If you aren't dressed up because you are working the garden, trust me the Husband (at least good one's) will look kindly on it. Know from experience.

SouthTX said...

The Last GentlemanApr 22, 2012 10:25 PM
{Maybe you made your point, but you are still playing her game. Stop pouting and make her play yours.

"Awesome dinner tonight, Babe. Now go ahead and have your shower and relax a bit. Doctor's orders." Give her a smack on the behind. DON'T APOLOGIZE. "You just looked like you needed it." Leer a bit, if you have to.

If she refuses, just turn it around: "Oh, so someone wants to be a dirty girl tonight? I can deal with that too..." Major points if you can get her to slap your arm.

If she doesn't fall for it that night, don't act the least bit concerned. Just let it sit in her mind awhile. She'll jump you sooner or later.

The point is... playful domination most days, and then every once in awhile act like a complete Beta wuss and give her a foot massage and a kiss and tuck her into bed. Works like a charm.}

This guy has it. The playful arm slap means He know's. When the Wife shows mock idignation at being bossed around, you get a happy Marriage.

SouthTX said...

The Wife know's not to mess with me. Legit issues, OK. Silly shit tests, no. But she loves how I interact with the kid's. She wonders why the kid's don't test me. (They test her) Thank God because the oldest is a physical monster. Never had a problem with guiding my children. Although having a Daughter as my youngest will be the greatest challenge. I want her to be a sweet girl. Hard to do living in our house with two big brothers. She's tough. But any boy wanting to date her has his work cut out for him. I joke(?) about cleaning the M-4 at the kitchen table while drinking whiskey when she brings him home. My Wife thinks it's horrific for even saying that. It's good for a laugh for me and her brother's. They understand. Their Mom doesn't.

Rone said...

I definitely feel you on this one. Sometimes the best way to win the game is to not play. Last Gentleman has it right. You gotta set the tone and parameters for how things flow in the relationship, and make her adapt to them instead of vice versa.

Some women will set up constantly changing parameters only because she's winging it and doesn't know how to lead, or wants to set up obstacles hoping you'll knock them down and take over. Set the tone and be the rock.

HeligKo said...

I am not raising my sons to be losers in the game of life. I know few people would call me a wuss, but the game is rigged right now. Settling down in a nuclear family is akin to pushing the timer button on a nuclear bomb for men, and then staying to see of they can survive the blast. The truth is the game isn't fair to women either. It teaches them to resist the male leadership in the household that is the single most important thing to holding a family together. Its easier in the moment for them to cut and run, and let the state sort it out.

I don't want to see my boys go through what I am now, or see their children go through what they are going through. I don't want my daughters to either. They face a society that will encourage divorce as the solution that will make it all ok. Most of the women I know become nasty during the divorce, and sure seems to be less about him, and more about the fact things aren't looking rosy on the other side, and they got to blame somebody.

My wife is suffering the choices she has made, but there is no getting off this train. You can't take back the words that took my marriage from slightly strained to a sham. You can't put together enough trust for me to risk everything again on the fact she won't just decide to run again. I really don't want my daughters to marry either. The game seems rigged in their favor. The scales of husband vs wife in divorce are most decidedly tilted towards the wife, but when the decisions are rendered and life goes on, decades down the road, most of the men have at least attained a place equal to where they were in the divorce or surpassed it (socially, economically, whatever matters to them), and the women seem to have stopped progressing and are eternally stuck in the position they were in when the split happened.

So the feminists win. Morally conservative, family-centric dad now wants his sons and daughters to avoid marriage, and to learn to care for themselves. To understand that it is better to live a romantically solitary life than to put kids through what they have been through. I hope things change in the next decade, because it would be a shame to not be sure if I should celebrate or mourn the marriages of my kids, because surely they won't all heed my advice as they have all those hormones/pheromones pushing them towards "this is the one".

HeligKo said...

Funny you mention the testing of her and not you. That is the number one thing that stands out to me as me and my wife split. I will get one test from a kid, but then they know that its time to do what I say or there are consequences. She will be tested until she is purple with rage. They know that she has lost the enforcement through me. The most she can do, is call me to come get the kid who is causing her trouble. They know that I will talk with them about their relationship with their mother, but I refuse to punish them for things (relationship/communication) that have occurred between them and her. She lost my protection when she left. They don't really test her on things that relate only to them like school, because they know that I will be along side their mom on any punishment to deal with raising them to be responsible adults.

Carlotta said...

Here's the thing, the world is fallen. It never was not rigged in someone's direction. Your not the only one to go through pain. There are women who have had equal or worse situations. I am sorry you are going through this, and friend, I know a little something about pain. But I won't waste my time comparing scars. I have something that makes it all worth it.

God.

He can change a hard, selfish, evil, cold heart. He did to me.
He can use the evil that has been done to change the future for good. He did to me and mine.
It is not over, so don't give up. If you give your life to the Lord He promises to restore the years eaten away and to give you beauty for the ashes of your old life. Trust Him. Serve Him. Obey Him. Thank His Son for the ability to do so. It saved my life, it changed my future, it gave me a way out of much misery. It gave my children a hope and a future, shoot, it gave them life.

You are not the only one to go through this, but it is not over. Your children are watching you. They will go through times of trouble and their children will be watching them. What do you want them to do? I know a God who will pick you up, bind up your heart and can either change your marriage for good or help you live through it.

The alternative, is hopelessness...

I will pray for you.

Anonymous said...

Carlotta, I don't know if that Feminist Shaming Language was directed at me or Anon 8:21. If directed at me, you can hang it in your well-worn arse right after you go and fck yourself with it.

My job as a father is to make sure my flesh and blood live the best lives they can, whatever metric I, in my best judgement, choose to consider (military service, education, family life, religious commitment, pursuit of hedonistic "fun"). I don't owe anything to "society" per se.

It is negligence bordering on child abuse to fail to warn them about the way the world is stacked against little boys, in a way it wasn't 30 years ago. It would be negligence on the scale of not warning them about drugs, credit card debt, student loans for a liberal arts degree, or getting into a van with a creepy dude you've never met.

Re your "quitter" language, counseling a child not to engage in a risky and probably stupid course of action is what you do for someone you love.

I have no doubt that many fathers counseled their sons to emigrate to America in centuries past - they weren't counseling "quitting" as much as realizing where a higher probability of happiness could be obtained.

Anonymous said...

@HeligKo: My kids don't test me either. Thye do the missus.

@STx: If a daughter's date starts peppering you with good questions about the M-4, you know he's a keeper.

HeligKo said...

@Carlotta, its not my pain that is the issue. It heals. I had/have two parents who love me and stayed together through the hard stuff. The issue is that I am at the complete mercy of my wife. If I don't please her through this process, she presses the button, and I am thrown in the meat grinder. She may or may not do this. I have to walk as if I am walking on broken glass all the time, and then balance what is best for my kids right now. I can assure you the woman who leaves her husband when there is nothing truly broken, is not putting her family first. The imbalance of power under the law in marriage is ridiculous, and young men rarely see past the first few years to recognize it. Perhaps the women don't, but they have been dealt a trump card once the marriage is legal that is theirs whether they play it or not, and it becomes stronger once there are children involved. I wouldn't play cards at a table where I knew that the dealer was giving someone at the table a winning hand every time, even if that person was choosing to discard winning combinations. Its not just an unfair game, its rigged.

My children pay the price as she chooses to move, and they have to change schools, because she can't drive them to school when they are with her. Her schedule doesn't allow for that flexibility. Even though I am the one with a traditional job and get it done, and she works for a school. She won't stay, because she doesn't want to live in an apartment any more, and she isn't finding rentals she likes in the area. Is about her comfort, not the kids. The problem with the way things are set up right now, is women have too much power after marriage/children. When anyone has that kind of power, they will eventually use/abuse it.

Anonymous said...

I was definitely misunderstood here. I'm certainly not pouting or seeking advice, and I normally would not have posted this were it not precisely related to the topic.

In any case, if I communicated poorly, admitting I did something gamma to boot, then that is on me. This story wasn't a yelp of outrage, it was a cackle at the absurd.

SouthTX said...

Probably so. If her bf wants to test me. Go ahead. I don't mind a challenge. Find it fun. A Loving Father looks out for all his kids.

Mr. Nightstick said...

I don't think it's the "real" JQP.

SouthTX said...

It sucks being in a fallen world. I love the Mrs. She is typing for me now. Cannot wait for Jesus's return. God has so much better plans for us. God Bless.

stg58 said...

I just posted a comment there. It sounded to me like a job posting on Monster.

Vox said...

Hey, JQP! What's shaking? I hope this finds you well!

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