Wednesday, October 19, 2011

The Orbital Leapfrog

Athol shines the spotlight on one of his commenters concerning the humiliating experience of orbiting:
I got into someone's orbit, once, back in the Blue Pill days. I did all sorts of things for her, treated her nicely, waited patiently while she ended a relationship, undertook a lot of responsibilities for her. And then, at a critical moment, I made my Move. She was shocked. She was offended. She rejected me good and hard, told me that we would only be friends at best, that "I wasn't her type." She was kind of brutal about it, as if the very idea of me dating "out of my class" was ludicrous.

So I walked away. I quit calling her. I found distraction. I quit answering her calls. I got angry with her, then objectified her, and I completely severed any ties with her. Since we had a common group of friends (we were undergraduates) the group ended up shattering when I quit attending functions, and our friends wanted to know why. She blamed me for getting mad, blamed me for upsetting the group and starting a fight with her friends, and blamed me that I wouldn't "just be friends" and keep coming to her study group.

And you know what? I survived. Not only survived, it was the first real taste of "red pill" I'd ever had.
Now, to be fair, I have seen orbiting work on occasion. But it requires an insane amount of patience and the opportunity cost is monstrous. In the case of one of my friends, it took him most of our college years, three, in fact, to land the pretty Italian dancer around whom he had been orbiting. So, while he did manage to outkick his coverage, in the end, the relationship lasted about one-third as long as the orbiting. That's far from the most effective use of a young man's prime predation years, in my opinion.

Orbiting happens when a man with lower SMV locks onto a woman with higher SMV. Gammas, particularly nerds, are especially susceptible to this sort of behavior due to their social ineptness and overly romantic natures. Their natural tendencies towards pedestalization and singular focus are exacerbated by the messages they receive from the entertainment media, female friends of the woman they are orbiting, and the woman herself. It's important to remember that women being orbited enjoy the experience, as it not only makes her feel attractive but increases her status among other women. Women consider attractiveness to be much more nebulous and subjective than men do, which is why they instinctively feel that a woman with a collection of orbiters must be more attractive than the exact same woman without them. The female instinct to attract and maintain orbiters is no weaker or less valid than the male instinct to assemble and maintain a stable.

The irony is that by orbiting a woman, the orbiter tends to reduce the probability that he will ever become sexually involved with her. But this doesn't mean his cause is hopeless. The optimal strategy for a lower SMV man infatuated with a higher SMV woman can be described as the Orbital Leapfrog. The results are by no means guaranteed, but they are much more likely and come with a much lower opportunity cost. The Orbital Leapfrog requires a likely orbiter to refuse to show the otherwise orbited object any sexual interest at all while simultaneously pursuing her less attractive friends with enthusiasm and vigor. This will usually be perceived as an insult and a provocative challenge by the higher SMV woman; if the non-orbiter is successful in scoring one or more of her friends whose SMV is closest to her in her social circle, in most cases, he will not have to make The Move because the object of his real interest will sooner or later make a move on him. Then it's a simple matter of closing the deal, preferably in a manner that doesn't restore her to a place on her previous pedestal, in which case the triumph will be a very short-lived one.

This is, of course, a rather cold strategy that can be more than a little harsh on the women being leapfrogged. But again, I don't make the rules of human behavior, I merely observe them and comment upon what appears to work and what does not. And while the Orbital Leapfrog approach will not be successful with women who genuinely put their female friendships before their egos or their interest in men, that is a sufficiently small percentage of the female population that it will be unlikely to hinder the successful application of this strategy.

And by the way, Athol is correct. Orbiters never understand the phrase "no, it's not ever going to happen" unless it is spelled out very clearly and somewhat harshly for them. One single, gentle, "let's just be friends" is not going to overcome a decade of chick flicks and "you just hang in there, champ, and eventually she'll see what a great guy you are" talks from dozens of men and women. But I am dubious that most women who are orbited actually want their orbiters to go away, as I suspect they just want to keep them safely orbiting without either breaking free or making The Move.(1)

So, don't orbit. Don't ever orbit. You may not be sufficiently alpha to maintain your own stable, but that doesn't mean you have to be a pathetic little orbiter wasting years mooning uselessly over the same unattainable woman either.


(1) Note that the capitalization of this term is a dead giveaway of the former orbiter's gamma status. Can you even imagine an alpha talking about "The Move" when he might quite reasonably make more than one move an evening... and do so successfully?

46 comments:

swiftfoxmark2 said...

The rest of the story about the orbiter is actually entertaining.

As a former orbiter myself, I can verify all of this. I did waste my time but fortunately not a whole lot of time. I probably spent more time playing video games and watching television in college than orbiting. Studying was for over-achievers and stupid people (who often times were one and the same).

Houston said...

I remember watching an entire "solar system" of guys quickly forming around a gorgeous brunette at a church singles group. I nearly became one of the outer planets. This was many years before I'd heard of game, but I was already beginning to realize that there was something fundamentally wrong about the nice guy approach, not only tactically but morally.

The LP 999/Linda said...

Simply superior content.

I am rather depressed by the O factor. Sometimes both the male and female just don't know how to go about what they want.

Giraffe said...

Mrs G knew a girl in college who was always trying to steal men. She thought she was the hottest in her circle, and she was, but she could not tolerate a man that was interested in one of the other girls, and would try to steal him.

Yohami said...

Ex orbiter here. Funny memories about The Move too.

Vox said...

Enlighten us that we might learn from your example, Yohami.

Yohami said...

Years in orbiter mode from one target to the next. Endless chats about her. Endless tasks and favors and money spent rubbing backs. Piles of anxiety about doing The Move and reveal my interest. Endless threads of "you´re such a wonderful person, I dont want to lose you as a friend". When I liked a girl, my default mode was to go hide in a corner and write painful poetry about how I would never be with her. Or gain space around her by being valuable. Or be the best man the situation would call and defend her from the injustices in life, trying to be the shining knight to her rescue, trying to fill the bar and measure up to the idealistic romantic movie thing, where one day she would realize she had feelings for me and find the prince had been there all along.

Let´s say I was an easy prey for narcissists. I hunted them down and then let them do their game on me.

And then had to burn bridges once and again, until I found the next one. Pretty sick stuff. I found a pattern, checking my diaries, that I was repeating the same stuff once and again over the years, being a borderline stalker. Until I was 25 or so. Then broke out of it, and became a role model beta / herb provider / doormat for another 4 years.

So in my orbiter years I did everything in the Adam Sandler´s book. From writing songs to poetry to be an emotional sponge to white knighting to... you name it. The result was always the same. And the girl always ended up with a "bad guy who made them suffer", or married a beta.

Yohami said...

Orbiter = unsolicited love provider. Good while is free. Unwelcome when it requires a payback. As an orbiter you can bring the moon and more as long as you dont expect anything in return. Which I thought was the definition of "love" back then. The girls will take all they can, and keep you around dissuading you to make The Move just yet. The more they have you delay The Move the more freebies they get, the lower your status is, the more you need them.

Astrosmith said...

Man, I wish I knew this stuff when I was a kid. I'm doing two things with it: 1, using some of these Game concepts on my wife, which actually does work, and 2, passing on these concepts to my sons, at least on the level they can understand now. I do not want my sons to be gammas with girls/women like I was as a teen.

Thanks, Vox, for this blog.

Markku said...

The Other Move

Anonymous said...

"The female instinct to attract and maintain orbiters is no weaker or less valid than the male instinct to assemble and maintain a stable."

Agreed completely. I find your honesty in admitting that refreshing, because a lot of PUA bloggers seem to criticize women for keeping orbiters/LJBFs when I find it very analogous to men keeping women in their line-up and using them for physical intimacy with no plans of offering any emotional intimacy.

This is why I simply do not feel any inkling of guilt keeping men around I have no plans of ever succumbing to sexually. The thought of the lot of them even attempting to make "The Move" strikes me as disturbing and offensive.

There is no reason for me to go out of my way to spell it out further to them that it actually isn't going to happen. It's no one's fault but their own if they didn't heed my initial warning. If a guy wants to buy me gifts, finance trips, perform taxing favors for me, listen to me talk about other guys I am sleeping/involved with, and complimenting me without me ever having to do a thing in return but essentially exist, then that's fine. I will not be opposed to that. I will take until I cannot take anymore and no one who is honest with themselves can blame me for that.

The only time I've ever really felt a pang of guilt and regret is when this guy who was clearly reaching out of his league was attempting to woo me by sending me on a trip to somewhere I've never been before to join him, his mates, and their girl. We slept in the same bed, but every time he would even attempt to make a move, I would act all offended and shocked and accuse him of only wanting to fuck me as opposed to getting to know me as a person. I would do all this only to have sex with his roommate afterwards. The orbiter life is a terrible life indeed.

Athol Kay: Married Man Sex Life said...

Thanks for the link love Vox.

I guess the Beta Orbiter issue is like a role reversal of sorts...

...spending five years of Beta trying to get 5 minutes of Alpha.

Toby said...

i have several friends like that. telling them to snap out of it is almost like convincing a girl to leave her asshole boyfriend.

the good news is that the chances for men to snap out of orbiting is better than girls leaving their asshole boyfriends.

Anonymous said...

@Toby: Print out the female anonymous' comment above and give it to your friends. After that, well, they've been warned.

Anonymous said...

"This is why I simply do not feel any inkling of guilt keeping men around I have no plans of ever succumbing to sexually. The thought of the lot of them even attempting to make "The Move" strikes me as disturbing and offensive."

That's ok darling, your looks will fade away soon enough. Then you'll want the scraps men like myself deign to give you.

"...I would act all offended and shocked and accuse him of only wanting to fuck me as opposed to getting to know me as a person."

I really, really, want you to keep commenting here, because you are basically encapsulating everything Vox and Roissy are saying. I am in awe of this female narcissism in front of me. I almost feel like sticking you in a glass jar, and just observing you in action as I apply various prods and stimuli.

Vox said...

I'm relatively confident that the nominal "female narcissism" above is fake. The text is written in a distinctly male style and shows an exaggerated pseudo-logic that women don't use.

Note that many posts by "women" claiming to be poster girls for everything a Game theoretician writes are written by men; the few that aren't are written by women who are striking poses.

Anonymous said...

I was thinking the same thing Vox, as I don't think I've ever met a woman that was actually that self-aware about what she does. But, just to be safe, like salting the Earth after a good roman-style razing. Or as Roissy said recently, thanks for the springboard.

TangerineViking said...

The only orbiter I had was my husband's college roommate. He asked me out three times within the course of my senior year. I told him no directly three times. (Directly, as in "I'm sorry, but I cannot/will not date you," and "I'm sorry, but I am not attracted to you."-and those two statements were for different reasons.) He kept trying. He became my ballroom dance partner after hearing me remark to a girlfriend that dancing was like getting to be in love with someone for three minutes. When he finally gave up and became quasi-interested in another girl, after spring break, he told me that he had shown his mother the other girl's picture, and she said "I thought you told me that TangerineViking was pretty." He had to tell her that it wasn't me after telling her so much about me.

When my now-husband broke up with his girlfriend and asked me out, the roommate was livid. When we got married, he was heartbroken and still angry. He ended up marrying a cheap copy of me. Same height, similar build, but fatter, same interests, but not as intelligent. Even her name is a variant on mine. I knew he liked me. I did not lead him on. I was not going to date him out of pity, when I knew I was not what he needed, in either a girlfriend or a wife. I wanted him to either stop liking me, or if he couldn't get rid of the crush, to back off. I didn't enjoy watching him suffer, but I wasn't going to throw him any crumbs because he couldn't take no for an answer. Having him around put a lot of pressure on me. I genuinely liked him as a friend and did not want to hurt him, but it took a lot of effort to consistently present a cold front to his puppy eyes. Not everyone enjoys being orbited.

Vox said...

If you didn't at least somewhat enjoy him orbiting you, why did you keep permitting him to orbit? Why did you select him as your ballroom dance partner? Was that before or after you had turned him down? I agree, you sent a clear verbal message on those occasions, but the rest of your story seems to indicate that you weren't past encouraging his attention in other ways.

rycamor said...

During most of the time I knew my wife (pre-relationship) she was surrounded by a small army of orbiters, running from gamma to beta. The funny thing is that I'm the one who stuck her in the friend zone for years. We would go places together from time to time, and usually it was her asking me out. While this wasn't completely conscious, I paid her just enough attention to keep her from giving up on me completely. She would come up with pretexts for getting together, such as "I need a date for a wedding", and I would say "Why not? I could use some free food." Or she would ask me to help her and her roommate with some repair job and I would say "Sure, just make me dinner." I have to say, she handled it all quite gracefully. Never threw herself at me but always found a way to let me know the door was open should I change my mind.

Meanwhile, the orbiters and her occasional short-term boyfriends went out of their way to please her with elaborate gifts or acts of service, and they ALL hated me, even though she would just introduce me as 'a friend'. It was fun to watch, honestly.

The most gamma of all the orbiters was truly painful to behold. He was clearly out of his league, and came up with all the most annoying ways of trying to insinuate himself. Being a computer geek (out of his league in that dept. too, actually), he once volunteered to stay up all night one Saturday helping her finish a newsletter for some church group, and then loudly proclaimed at church the next morning how he was so tired because "we spent the whole night together." Pathetic.

After we actually became a couple, he still held out hope until the day he heard of our engagement. Then he sought out an older woman at church whom he confided in "I can't believe it. It's real... it's really, really real...", to which she responded "[him], It's BEEN real."

Why did she string the orbiters along? She really didn't, but she was just not a brutal person. Also, there was one early episode the illustrates how hard it can be for girls in a social setting: Her first suitor was an older friend of mine. When she realized he was far more serious than she was (she was only 18), she gently said "We're just friends, right?" He responded with a heavy "Yes" and then went into depression for months, sometimes refusing to leave his room all day. This was in our church, and his parents HATED her, and did everything they could to drag down her reputation, until she pretty much broke off ties with the whole church. In fact, I think his parents still hate her to this day. That's a heavy load to put on a young girl.

BTW, it also illustrates just how poorly modern Christianity is preparing its young men for relationships: "God is preparing someone special out there for you..."

TangerineViking said...

Vox, because my clique was very small and I wasn't going to drive him away, because I was 19, and it was either take him as my dance partner or have no partner. I'm tall, and there aren't many guys on a college campus, tall or not, that want to do ballroom dancing for whatever reason.

Anonymous said...

Ha! Vox, don't tell me you're removing my comments. You're not that mentally weak are you?

The fact you're screening my comments fills me with strange delight actually. It must scare the hell out of you to encounter a woman who's quite aware of her own nature and uses it in a way that goes against your interests.

Anonymous said...

TV: "because my clique was very small and I wasn't going to drive him away, because I was 19, and it was either take him as my dance partner or have no partner. I'm tall, and there aren't many guys on a college campus, tall or not, that want to do ballroom dancing for whatever reason."

Translation: "because my wants (=! needs) trump other considerations. And I was young. Oh, and it wasn't fun for me, either. I suffered, too. I really did!"

Anonymous said...

Also notice the pattern Vox: all these orbital stories seem to involve women in the 18-25 bracket.

It reflects what I've seen too listening in on these women's blathering. "Honey, you're 21, come back when you're 35 and wish you even had a boyfriend."

So as a star ages and loses it outward light, so does the woman lose her pull on the intervaginater objects surrounding her.

Trust said...

Unlike "Anonymous at October 19, 2011 6:14 PM", who I think is a man pretending to be a woman, I'm nearly positive that TangerineViking is not a man pretending to be a woman.

I'm sure enough that i'd bet my wife on it, but not my Playstation.

Toby said...

"@Toby: Print out the female anonymous' comment above and give it to your friends. After that, well, they've been warned."

no need for that. they will learn it soon enough since they prefer learning it the hard way.

TangerineViking said...

Yup, definitely a woman. I'm 27 now, been married for six years. I'm not saying I handled it the best I could, but I do think I deserve credit for not verbally leading him on.

The ballroom club was very important to me. My choices really were 1.accept him as a partner, 2. act as a lead and dance with girls, or 3. quit. I didn't ask him to join the club. I was happy that he tried dancing and was surprised that it seemed to stick. It didn't occur to me until much later that he might have overheard my comment and was trying to win me over that way. I also had next to no experience with guys at that point.

I was raised in a fairly sheltered (Christian) manner and barely talked to a boy before 18 for any reason other than, "Hi, I was sick today--what's the homework?" My parents didn't do a good job of helping me learn to socialize, but one thing they did well was analyze my strengths and weaknesses and tell me what to look for in a husband. This guy wasn't it, and I told him that. I didn't tell him my entire opinion of him, but that would have been cruel. Was I supposed to say, "I am not attracted to you because you have hygiene issues, no ambition, and your home life scares me?" (alcoholic father, crazy mother) I hardly think that would have been kinder.

As far as not wanting to damage the clique goes, I knew he didn't have any other friends. I thought I had made it clear where I stood, and I didn't want him to feel like he was being driven away. I didn't want to lose him as a friend, either. I genuinely enjoyed his company. If he had felt he needed to back off for a while to clear his head, I would have understood that, but it was his choice not to.

I didn't confide in him and go date bad boys. I didn't confide in him at all. I wasn't dating anyone at this time and had no prospects. I couldn't have had foreknowledge that I was next in line for my now-husband's attention.

You guys may not understand this, but it is a lot of pressure to have a nice person around who desperately wants what you should not give him. I feel sorry for him to this day. He hasn't had a good life since leaving college, but I didn't cause any of it by clearly rejecting him as honestly as I knew how to at the time. If I weren't married now and the situation came up again, I think I would do better this time.

Stats: I'm an only child of (much) older parents. I'm both a minister's kid and a missionary kid = deeply religious. I went to a tiny Christian college. You can imagine the mess.

Anonymous said...

Can you cry babies stop trying to demonize that Viking girl? It's all rather pathetic. You're a hypocrite if you lot don't equally disparage men who use women only for physical intimacy. Neither is more sacred and are both equally valid and necessary. Might I remind you that even Vox made mention of it. I'm a woman and I am willing to put the truth before my ego long enough to at least accept that. Most of you men need to stop these shaming tactics and appeals to emotions because it's all rather unbecoming and feminie of you.

No wonder you princeses think I'm a guy feigning to be a woman, I'm probably a lot more intellectually honest and more capable of extricating my emotions from the discussion at hand.

And bloody hell, Viking , for the love of at least some modicum of self respect, quit explaining yourself to a bunch of bitter brats. No matter how legitimate your actions or inclinations might have been, they have no plans of finding the legitimate since it only serves to remind them of their years spent being sexually ignored and rejected by woman. Women need to learn to become much more psychological immune to such weak attempts at eliciting guilt. My 12 year old brother plays more advanced mind games than that.

Anonymous said...

Feminine*

whoops.

Anonymous said...

"That's ok darling, your looks will fade away soon enough. Then you'll want the scraps men like myself deign to give you."

- You must be under the impression that I'm somehow not aware of this. I'm currently 22 and I got this shit pretty much figured out. It's too bad some women will never accept a fourth of any of this.. I have no problem accepting truths that may conflict with my own interests, but nice try with the shaming tactic and condescension. I'll have you know that until the day that it fades, I plan to exploit it for all that it is worth. Thank you for your concern however, darling. 

"I really, really, want you to keep commenting here, because you are basically encapsulating everything Vox and Roissy are saying. I am in awe of this female narcissism in front of me. I almost feel like sticking you in a glass jar, and just observing you in action as I apply various prods and stimuli."

-If you're nice, I just might.  In all seriousness though, I don't see myself as all that different from your average woman. I have all of the same relative inclinations, I'm just wholly aware and I don't lie about them. This awareness allows me to hack the dynamics of the sexual marketplace and optimize my personal enjoyment with regards to it.  Also, it prevents me from falling into self sabotaging behavior like most women. Not to mention, I'm more intelligent  and logical than your average person, talk less average woman, as well as reasonably good-looking. 

The power that a young and beautiful woman wields over the sexuality of men is quite staggering. One can choose to use it for good and bad. I choose to take exceptional advantage of this. 
I'm aware of and appreciate the power this grants me; In essence, I can afford to do what I want.. for now.  

"I'm relatively confident that the nominal "female narcissism" above is fake. The text is written in a distinctly male style and shows an exaggerated pseudo-logic that women don't use."

I'm sorry to disappoint your psyche, but I am a woman. Of course, I have no stake in whether you believe me or not really. I suggest that you believe whatever allows you to make sense of reality and sleep well at night since processing adversarial information to your theories and ideals is often too much work.  I must admit I do find it mildly amusing, albeit not surprising, that you have this suspicion. Most women simply can't extricate their egos and emotions from most any discussion in order to concede with the reality of their nature. I'm capable of doing this well enough and I remain rather unapologetic about it. This is what you lot might be perceiving as arrogance on my part, but I would like to call it shameless honesty. 

As you've said, a woman's inclinations aren't more or less sacred than that of a man's. I did not make the rules, I play the game to the best of my advantage. I cannot be criticized for that by a person who is at all honest. The brief anecdote I told previously is very true, unfortunate as it may sound. My reason in sharing it was to further illustrate your point. No posing going on here, sir. Again, I have no stake in you taking my word for it . Do what you will with it. Cheers. 

L0L! Did you set up some sort of filter to auto-delete this comment or are you slumped over your computer and deleting this within seconds before anyone can see it? I'm going to assume the former.

Markku said...

Anonymous:

It is simply because of the snowflaking: "Not everyone enjoys being orbited." If the men you mention start snowflaking, they will be shamed too.

Toby said...

"Anonymous said...
Can you cry babies stop trying to demonize that Viking girl? It's all rather pathetic."

go mother someone else.

Anonymous said...

"I'm a woman and I am willing to put the truth before my ego long enough to at least accept that. Most of you men need to stop these shaming tactics and appeals to emotions because it's all rather unbecoming and feminie of you."

See gentlemen, this is exhibit A of something called "projection" which most women are expert at. Notice it describes her if you turn it around.

Professor Hale said...

I have found softer landings from orbit if I use my Alcohol fueled braking rockets. Beer goggles work on chicks too.

Vox said...

TangerineViking, given your protected upbringing and lack of experience with social circles, I think your unwillingness and/or inability to drive your sole orbiter away is perfectly understandable. But I'm sure you are aware that your experience is by no means the norm.

Anonymous, if you're a woman, you're simply a clueless, yammering one. No one wants to have sex with you, no one is crying about anything, and very few of the people here are bitter. Deal with it.

Anonymous said...

"TangerineViking said... October 21, 2011 4:50 AM
...Was I supposed to say, "I am not attracted to you because you have hygiene issues, no ambition, and your home life scares me?"..."


Pretty much, yes. Leave off the home life part because, damn, that's just too cruel and he can't do jack about it anyway. But everything else, he controls them. You aren't doing him any favors by not telling him about them. In this case cruel is kind. After you tell him then it's on him whether he betters himself or not. Even if he doesn't get you he will have a better chance with someone else.

In one respect by not telling him about his faults you are proving that you don't really care about him. Bravo.

Don't take it too hard. You think like a girl. You worry about his feelings. He's a guy and yes he has feelings but he can take it.

It just occurred to me why you might not have told him those things. If you had told him and he changed then he would expect more from you and you weren't going to be giving any more of yourself regardless of what he did. And you didn't want to face that prospect. Congrats on not giving him the shit test. So don't listen to me. You're doing juuust fiiinnne.

Nate said...

The footnote amused me to no end... as the capitalization of "The Move" caused an immediate chuckle when I saw it.

Its not that alphas make moves often and so its not big deal to them... That's a understatement so gross that it defeats accuracy entirely.

Alphas are simply always making moves. Walking into a room is making a move. Saying hello... is making a move.

The fundamental difference relates to attitude of course. The thought, "She may not be interested" just never crosses the Alpha mind. Alphas are vaguely aware that rejection exists... its just something like breast cancer. Its a horrible thing... but it is not a risk factor.

Trust said...

It's amusing how hypersensitive some people are about men discussing the idiosyncrasies of women. Most of it is rooted in observable fact, unlike the little emotional realities so common in the female version of such discourse which more often becomes a "weenie roast."

TangerineViking said...

Yes, Vox, I know. Girls like how I was in my late teens (very quiet, preferring books to people, no clue how to present myself) usually don't have orbiters at all. I was surprised that I had even one. I didn't really grow into myself until the last two years. I still consider it a fluke that I landed my (attractive, life of the party husband) husband through a series of bumbling misadventures, but since he chose to propose to me, I sure wasn't going to let him get away! I had no expectation I'd ever be able to do better, and besides, I was crazy about him. :)

I lurk here because, having done well for myself through some miracle, I want to help my husband's younger brothers and single friends to successful relationships and lasting marriages. I also want to continue hanging on to my attractive, life of the party husband, because he usually has every woman between 15 and 50 flirting with him. My husband does tell me what he wants and expects from me, but he's not as good at articulating the why, so I read blogs like these for the theory.

Hamilton said...

Never Orbited myself, but I have several friends who have been orbiters. Watching them was pitiful. I know a guy who has orbited a girl for 15 years now, he even goes as far as to take her on expensive vacations, once on a safari in Africa, and is OK with retiring to his separate bedroom when the day is done. It's amazing to watch this guy.

First post here - almost done reading Married Man's Guide... Excellent book. And I'm really diggin' this site.

Vox said...

The mere fact that you are aware that there is a need to "hang on" to your husband and are willing to put some effort into it means you probably will, TangerineViking.

Vox said...

Did you set up some sort of filter to auto-delete this comment or are you slumped over your computer and deleting this within seconds before anyone can see it? I'm going to assume the former.

No, the comment was spam-trapped by Blogger all eight times you posted it.

Ian Ironwood said...

Hey! I'm mentioned over here, too! I was the original commented on Athol's excellent blog, and the story was a real one. She did flunk out, she did get obesely fat with two kids, and she did marry (I can't make this up!) a guy who went to school to study Classical Lute and who made fake vampire teeth on the side. By all accounts she's pretty miserable.

Me, I married a beautiful nerdy chick, had three precocious children, and now make far too much money in porn.

Sometimes the best revenge is living well.

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