Thursday, June 9, 2011

Talking to Strangers

Of everything I have done to learn game the cold-approach is still the hardest. It seems like so much work for so little return. While I have got a few numbers from talking to random cute girls not a single one has resulted in a date. Despite this I have come to the conclusion that the cold-approach is one of the most important things a man can do to learn game. Nothing exposes deficiencies in your social skill set faster than talking to a random stranger. When you are in a social setting with people that like you, most of the time they will be willing to overlook your social gaffes, and will work to maintain the good feelings. Strangers are not so generous. By default, talking to a complete stranger is an uncomfortable experience, even more so when it is unexpected. This means that even small mistakes become glaring, and big mistakes end the interaction immediately. But without the ability to see your mistakes, it becomes very hard to make any improvement. Thankfully, even a small number of approaches will expose them.

My biggest weakness is conversation. I cannot talk to women without it feeling forced and awkward, if I am able to talk at all. My mind simply crashes. This fact has become my amygdala’s go to excuse to keep me from approaching. I know that I will not be able to say anything to keep conversation going so I rarely try to initiate one. This is not like approach anxiety that I can just push past it. If I have nothing to say things end very quickly. Just plunging in and hoping for the best does not do much either. I am too focused on regulating my anxiety to free my mind up for creative spontaneous banter. Adrenaline is not exactly meant for relaxed conversation. The fight or flight response tends to slow higher brain function and I am left with my default programming: awkward silence.

However, when I do sleight of hand this problem rarely comes up. Currently I have about ten tricks in my arsenal. I have done each trick so many times that I can do them automatically, freeing my mind to talk and explain what is happening. I am relaxed and confident because I know that should I make a mistake I can abort the trick and move on to another one. I have a safety net. I have realized that I need the same thing when I am not doing magic. For this reason I am turning to conversational routines to get me past my lack of ability.

With a routine you are free to take risks. If you try something that does not work you can fall back to something that does. Both comedians and magicians do this. If a new joke does falls flat the comedian will follow up with a sure-fire joke to recover the audience. If a magician makes a mistake he will abort the current trick for a new one. Knowing the routine by heart also frees you up to work on other, more subtle things. You can check your body-language, watch for IOIs, plan your next move, or mentally prepare for the next routine.

With practiced routines you become free to be spontaneous. Successful improvising is not a result of randomness and guessing. Rather, it comes from practice and
you must first know the routine before you can practice it. Unfortunately, you will not know if the routine will work unless you first test it. Instead of creating an original routine, find one on the manosphere that has been tried and tested. Once you have found one that you are comfortable with, the challenge is bringing the routine to the point that you can execute it with little effort. You do not want to memorize the routine word for word as that wold be counter productive. You want to focus on the interaction more than the exact words. In this case rehearsal is better than memorization. To rehearse, write the routine down. As you write, mentally walk yourself through what you will do. Describe your thoughts and feelings as you go through this imaginary approach. The point is to practice the interaction while you are not under pressure. You are training your mind to react correctly when the pressure is on. Try to think of as many outcomes as you can. It is important to put the routine on paper as it removes any ambiguity in your mind. It is also easier to correct your mistakes when you have something concrete to refer to. After you go out and try the routine you can refer back to the original, record mistakes, and tweak it.

None of this is meant to make you completely comfortable with talking to strangers. If you were completely comfortable you would not need game. The idea is to give yourself the tools you need to take yourself to the edge of your comfort zone and stretch your limits.


Joseph Dantes said...

It's a long, hard road out of hell.

You really need to watch some RSD vids - Jeffy, Tim, Tyler, doesn't matter which. Maybe Roosh's Bang too, he's good at convo game.

I tried to think of some advice that could be usefully condensed down into a comment, but couldn't, except for this: Momentum.

Anonymous said...

This blog would be a great place to archive great pick-up/alpha videos. Sure, people can search youtube for them, but it would be nice if someone could compile the best examples. For example, this post talks of scripts. I'd like to see a few in action. (or text versions)

Tigger4Christ said...

JD, what do you do when you have high IQ, and the average person just BORES you to death? Or has such different beliefs, that the conversational effort is excruciating?

Tigger4Christ said...

RM, what do you think of the latest post on Rob Judge, where he trashes Neil Strauss, especially his routines?

Do you have a source for "good" routines to start with, not like the newer ones that Rob Judge criticizes? Link here:

David Casson said...

"It's a long, hard road out of hell."

Ain't that the truth.

Joseph Dantes, where can I find the RSD videos? I don't know what 'RSD' stands for so I can't find them on YouTube.

Also: It looks like there are tons and tons of YouTube videos about game/PUA. Can anyone suggest some good ones? I've got PUA Training Media, and I enjoy their stuff, but I'd like to hear what you guys have found (if anything) that appealed to you.

YOHAMI said...

Duh. This is precisely whats fucked up in PUAdom.

"cold-approach" is fucked up from the go. The frame is wrong. The stress and goal is wrong.

The fix for the wrongness? routines. Yes, magicians and comedians have routines. And when you perform, if you lose the audience, having tricks and stuff is useful. Whats fucked up then?

The whole fucking idea that this is about "performing" and having "audience".

The experience you will gain from interacting with people is gold. The fact that you go with that mindframe, is three steps forward and two steps back.

There are better things to do that produce the same cold-approach gains in less time and with none of this bullshit:

Focus on engaging on interesting conversions with people. As many people you can.

The trick, I learned it from Dale Carniegie a long while ago, in my omega days.

Ask questions or mention something so the other person speaks. When the person speaks, use whatever he/she said, respond and add new information. Say, vomit data about you without anyone asking. Project a direction and back it up with your own stories. Then repeat. And everything you do and say, do it from a tease / amusing frame.

You: Hey nice sweater, where did you get it?
Her: oh! I got it at the XXX
You: funny. thats my fav color. My grandma had one just like yours (wink)
Her: (responding to the tease) oh my grandma blahblahblah
You: (address what she said, increase the tease, share your stories, make stuff up, respond to what she says, make stuff up, make her laugh, and LEAVE)

Routines might bring peace to your mind but they are NOT the way to go. Routines will give you some skills eventually, right? focus on get the skill, not the routine. The skill is easy, the routine will screw you up.

Yohami said...


YOHAMI said...

RSD = Real Social Dynamics

They have some good stuff.

They focus heavily on the "chode" though, and the inner game, and some stuff that is pure bullcrap or unnecessary, and keep this simple alphadom thing like it was a mystery to be revealed and have epiphanies about (bullshit), but they also have some good stuff, like blueprint and mastermind and transformations (dvds) so go check them, just dont swallow´em blindly

YOHAMI said...

collecting phone numbers. this is so lame. man. you gotta see this from the girl´s point of view. it IS lame.

even if you get to a point were you can do 100 approaches a week and get 20 phones and bang 1 girl, the girl you bang will be a result of stadistics and not a measurement for your "game", but say:

a girl who would normally bang you, if you just approached and showed sexual interest - which you did

so targetting that girl is EASY. you dont need the 100 approaches a week nor the turmoil of "asking numbers" so you do "text game" and turn that into "dates" and maybe rank notches. fuck that.

become a guy that girls want to fuck, and then just go TALK to these girls and show sexual interest.

20% of the effort and 50000% of the results

YOHAMI said...

"JD, what do you do when you have high IQ, and the average person just BORES you to death? Or has such different beliefs, that the conversational effort is excruciating?"

Dont talk deep stuff ever. Sad but simple. Tease. The interaction is about learning what´s she about, its not to find what she deeply thinks about stuff. You are doing a sexual courtship, not trying to solve demanding problems. The vibe is more important than what is said. Use your IQ to create humor, roleplaying, tell emotionally charged stories, challenge her boundaries, be just a bit out there and inappropriate, etc

But, if she bores you, press next and move on. This isnt about you performing for her and capturing her imagination. You are the one screening. If she doesnt make the cut (no good vibes for you, boring, ugly, whatever) dismiss he, no matter if she is hot.

You can tell her:

are you always this boring? and leave

great neg

JCclimber said...

Exactly what Yohami said. Why are you expecting ANY woman to be an exciting conversationalist? In my life I have met (not none, but very few) women who are able to converse with me on a topic I find interesting.

So screw that option. You find the women boring because YOU are a boring conversationalist. Period. I'd probably find you boring as well. If you only want to talk about the things that YOU find interesting, guess what, you're boring to other people.

Because other people want to talk about what THEY find interesting. Which is often themselves, their families, their interests, their passions. Find out what gets them excited. Ask them if they had $100k they must give to a charity, which one and why, would they give it to?

YOHAMI said...

Backing what Climber said, in my experience the best female conversationalists have been lesbians, weirdos, or seriously emotional fucked up women. That translated into me having fucked up relationships.

Maybe I´ll find a decent smart woman who is also hot. Still looking, but not losing my hair over that. Focus on improving your own conversational SKILLS.

SKILLS. not routines. If you want some blocks you want to repeat (like guitar scales) make it about points of interest. Common sense.

Joseph Dantes said...

JD, what do you do when you have high IQ, and the average person just BORES you to death? Or has such different beliefs, that the conversational effort is excruciating?

As is so often the case with a seemingly insoluble problem, this is stated wrong. As long as you are thinking of it in this way, you are wrong. At least when attempting to rise from delta or below.

I know this because I used to state the problem this way.

You DO have a stupid, emoting, shallow part of your brain that enjoys light chatter. Every mammal has it. Your emotional, social brain. You need to figure out how to activate that.

You're stuck in the logical mode. It's no fun to be there no matter what. At most, you can feel stimulation. Greater pleasures exist, trust me. You're hiding back there because of negative social conditioning.

Joseph Dantes, where can I find the RSD videos? I don't know what 'RSD' stands for so I can't find them on YouTube.

Try bittorrent. Real Social Dynamics. Or buy them.

Joseph Dantes said...

Oh yeah... dude read JUGGLER. He's a master of conversational game. Super empathetic.

YOHAMI said...

I liked Juggler too

Stryker said...

Dude, get a part time job that forces you to talk to strangers all day, like a waiter, bar tender or cashier. I work part time for a specialty grocery store and after a few months could chat up every beautiful woman that came through my line. Easily. About anything. Without anxiety. Now I can do it anywhere.

Joseph Dantes said...

Yeah stryker, or coed sports. Or anything coed and sufficiently social. Immersion.

Should be something you enjoy anyway. To build lifestyle, identity, etc.

YOHAMI said...

What striker and JD said

Make sure the job you pick is charged with authority, like bouncer in a club, teacher of a group, etc. Make sure when you are at it, project / be alpha

And "approach", interact with people from that position.

Thats a highspeed road compared to PUA cold approaching / will get you laid and centered faster / the results and skill and identity change are accumulative

YOHAMI said...

Vox, check the story here, it has a "cold approach" in alpha mode. Has the required neg, roleplaying, sexual undertones, kiss close, but as in your face and simple and fun as it can be

He gets away with it because he´s not routining - not trying to number close - not PUA

What he is not saying is, why does the girl respond so positively from the GO? he´s got her laughing and intrigued from the start.

= body language, charisma, sexual vibe, tease mood, and 100% outcome independence

dannyfrom504 said...

'Vox, check the story here, it has a "cold approach" in alpha mode. Has the required neg, roleplaying, sexual undertones, kiss close, but as in your face and simple and fun as it can be"

well golly-gee-willakers free blog advertising from the master Yohami. lol. i'm honored hermano.

YOHAMI said...

sharing the knowledge bro ;-)

dannyfrom504 said...

"sharing the knowledge bro ;-)"

gracias hermano. seguir luchando la buena luchar.

Anonymous said...

listen to yohami; he knows the drill. only amateurs ask for phone numbers.

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