Friday, June 17, 2011

Don't listen to female advice on dating

Seriously, in most cases you would be better off doing precisely the opposite. Dr. Helen Smith notes a certain contradiction in the advice from the author of Dating 101:
I read an article this morning (via Instapundit) entitled "18 Things Men Need To Know That Women Won’t Tell Them." The Your Tango expert article is written by Deanna Frazier, the author of Dating 101: The Second, Third, or Fourth Time Around. She states that "It’s not how much money you have, or looks, or power, its PRESENCE.."

Really? Then why is all the advice given about how to improve your looks, confidence (which on some level gives the illusion of power), and money, because without it, you can't hire the coaches, and buy the manicures and hand lotions you need to impress the women.
It cannot be stressed enough that female dating advice is aimed at ALPHAS and concerns how women wish ALPHAS would behave. It isn't aimed at the majority of men, because to women, the majority of men simply don't figure into their calculations at all. As OK Cupid has demonstrated, women rate 80 percent of men below average.

"Females of OkCupid, we site founders say to you: ouch! Paradoxically, it seems it’s women, not men, who have unrealistic standards for the “average” member of the opposite sex."

This is why all of the myths so cherished by deltas and gammas are precisely that, myths. Women aren't attracted to a man who is a gentleman, they are attracted to an Alpha and they would like him to behave like a gentleman. They are not attracted to a delta who behaves like a gentleman for the obvious reason that he isn't an ALPHA. Basically, from the female perspective, there is essentially no difference between a male 1 and a male 6. They're all below notice.

So, when a woman is talking about men, it is always vital to translate and determine if "men" = all men or "men" = ALPHAS. And if she is providing what passes for advice to men, you can be certain that the latter meaning is intended.

41 comments:

Stingray said...

"Women aren't attracted to a man who is a gentleman, they are attracted to an Alpha and they would like him to behave like a gentleman."

This sentence needs to be put in bold, highlighted, italicized and then spread around and around the manosphere. It is exactly what women want and they themselves don't even know it.

Pete said...

Furthermore, Vox, as noted many times here and elsewhere, most women haven't the slightest clue what they actually want. If Alphas were to read "18 Things Men Need to Know" and behave accordingly, they wouldn't BE Alphas and they wouldn't be attractive to such women anyway.

I suspect most Alphas wouldn't have the slightest clue who Deanna Frazier is, and wouldn't read her articles or books in a million years.

Joseph Dantes said...

It's been argued you can apply the same rule to the feminist revolution in general.

Note the "paradoxically" OkCupid's response.

When translated, the feminist complaint is no longer a paradox:

Original:
"Men have unrealistic standards of beauty for women."
Translated:
"Alphas have unrealistic standards of beauty for women."

Paradox gone, hilarity remains. Works great for most feminist whining points.

indyguy77@work said...

80%.... wow. That really says it all, don't it?

Anonymous said...

As Vox said in the past, teaching more men to be ALPHA is doing women a huge favor...if woman start viewing only 50-70% of men below average that dramatically increases the supply of men they like.

szook said...

I went to school at a small private uni. and this fact of hypergamous desire for status elevation is so painfully obvious in retrospect. Even the school administration chimed in that you were lucky to get to be dating these girls. However, due to the size and nature of the campus (It was a Christian uni.) the dating field at the school was subject to a serious reality distortion vortex, and the sad truth was that a lot of feminist indoctrination had tainted the pool even there.

Trust said...

@: "It cannot be stressed enough that female dating advice is aimed at ALPHAS and concerns how women wish ALPHAS would behave."
_________

I don't know why deltas and gammas have such a hard time grasping this, that when one says what they want, they are saying what they want from someone they are attracted to. I mean, it's like when men say what they want a woman to do, they're more likely to be picturing Megan Fox doing it than Janeane Garofalo.

Stingray said...

Wow:

http://blog.chron.com/fanzone/2011/06/video-one-evil-woman-one-sweet-girl-and-one-baseball/

Realmatt said...

Losers just have a hard time imagining that the number of men women find attractive is much lower than the number women men find attractive. There are much more screwable women than men.

A woman just has to look hot, or decent enough at the right time (when a man has an erection).

For a man it means constant war. The luxuries of civilization turn men into lazy wimps. Women don't change as much, if at all.

Yohami said...

Good stuff. Thanks for the OKCupid study

NateM said...

Pretty textbook stuff...there's such a high man/woman ratio that every women who is decent looking gets lots of messages, which in turn elevates her belief of how attractive she is and then she aims higher, to the point where the only mean she will shoot for would be 4-5s (on okcupid, 8-10 elsewhere). Of course it would be laughable for a female 5 to try for a male 8 in real life, but that doesn't make the male 6 any less rejected when he tries.

fatherof10 said...

"Women aren't attracted to a man who is a gentleman, they are attracted to an Alpha and they would like him to behave like a gentleman."

This sentence needs to be put in bold, highlighted, italicized and then spread around and around the manosphere. It is exactly what women want and they themselves don't even know it.

Absolutely the best ever, great job Vox. I have also been thinking recently about how the modern church has betafied JESUS. He was the ultimate alpha, he could have had any woman he wanted, but he gave all that up to die for us. That is the man we should all want to be like.

JCclimber said...

Wish I'd realized that much sooner, before my first marriage.

Hellborn 20 said...

It stands to reason that any guy on a dating site is automatically assumed to be anything but Alpha due to his perceived lack of options in the sexual marketplace.

SarahsDaughter said...

Stingray said...

Wow:

http://blog.chron.com/fanzone/2011/06/video-one-evil-woman-one-sweet-girl-and-one-baseball/

And a couple of men that did the right thing. Wow is right, that is something else.

MikeC said...

Women aren't attracted to a man who is a gentleman, they are attracted to an Alpha and they would like him to behave like a gentleman.

This may or may not be true, but there is nothing in the information provided by OK Cupid to back it up. All that their data indicates is that the average women thinks the average man is unattractive. There is nothing in the pictures to indicate the mens degree of "alphaness".

Now, it's possible that the women were not reacting to the pictures of the men at all, but to the information contained in their profiles. Perhaps their notion of an attractive man is one making over $100,000/yr and with at least a masters degree. But plenty of beta men fall into this category.

Bottom line - your conclusion is not supported by the evidence available.

YOHAMI said...

MikeC, its supported by real life experience

MikeC said...

its supported by real life experience

Not by my real life experience.

YOHAMI said...

Thats fine, hows your real experience like?

MikeC said...

My real life experiences indicates that women are not an undifferentiated mass, all responding automatically to so-called "alphas" like plants to sunlight.

As a low status but attractive male, younger me was aggressively picked up by a fair number of good looking women.

My real life experience also indicates that women behave differently in different places. Women in big city America tend to be much more vain and egotistical than those in other parts of the country, or other parts of the world for that matter. There's a reason that the game boys like Asian women, after all, and it's not their looks. It's their humility.

Why is that? My experience indicate that it is because women in big city America get hit on constantly. That does tend to make them vain and egotistical. If, every day, different women expressed their desire to sleep with you, you'd be vain and egotistical too.

Ironically, it's the PUA mentality which creates the sort of women which the PUA community complains about and claims to have the key to bedding.

YOHAMI said...

MikeC

I agree with everything you said but this

"women are not an undifferentiated mass, all responding automatically to so-called "alphas" like plants to sunlight."

In my experience they are / they do. The more alpha the more they respond, the more beta / nice guy, the less they do.

The argument here is women are not attracted to nice, but attracted to attractive guys who can be nice. Niceness being the tip but not what they crave, even when they say they crave nice.

All of that is observable. If you got hit by a lot of women, I guess you are either physically attractive and or manly / dominant / alpha esque, or have something else going for you, other than being a gentleman.

MikeC said...

The argument here is women are not attracted to nice, but attracted to attractive guys who can be nice.

So now "attractive" = "alpha"?

I've noticed that the real meaning of "alpha" in the PUA community is "any guy who women sleep with". Why they sleep with him is almost unimportant. It can be because he's good-looking. It can be because he's rich. It can be because he's a "bad boy". It can be because he's an expert musician, or expert motor-cycle rider, or expert surgeon, or expert killer, or expert chef.

The fact is that women sleep with men for all sorts of different reasons, reasons not very adequately explained by the catch-phrase "alpha".

Yes, a certain degree of self-confidence helps. No woman wants a man who is petrified with shyness or consumed with self-loathing. (No man wants such a women either) To men suffering from such afflictions, the PUA message can be helpful.

YOHAMI said...

"I've noticed that the real meaning of "alpha" in the PUA community"

In the PUA community alpha = promiscuous, without any clue about what alpha is on its own = PUA is clueless.

I find the PUA jergon cant help men with afflictions

MikeC said...

I think the root of the problem are the "cold callers" - guys who approach women like vacuum cleaner salesmen, with almost professional determination and detachment.

I was waiting for a bus in NYC once and this guy was hitting hard on this woman standing nearby. For a good half-hour. When the bus came, he disappeared! He'd seen this women standing there as an easy target, one who would not/could not easily move away. She ended up giving him an email address. I don't know if it was fake or real.

I would probably be called a "natural alpha", using your terminology. But I have never done a "cold call" in my life. I never approach a woman who is unaware of me and try to overpower her with my charisma, my confidence, my dominance. I keep my eyes and ears open and look for a spark - some sign that she has some interest in me. Then it's a matter of fanning the flames rather than killing them.

But these Amway salesmen of love - they kill things for all normal men. They are the ones who prompt big city American women to walk around in a protective force field. They are the ones who cause big city American women to automatically respond to men with a mental "Oh, crap, here we go again, another wannabe Casanova".

To the extent that the "game" theorists encourage men to behave like the idiots above, they're the bad guys and I'm against "game".

If all you want to do is encourage men to be more self-confident, more power to you.

Anonymous said...

The obvious answer seems to be that 80% of that dating site's men are below average. It would make sense. guys who are above average in looks don't need a dating site. So all the below ones go to a dating site and a few above average ones whose jobs don't give them a chance to meet many women.

YOHAMI said...

MikeC

I think "cold approach" is the wrong way of putting it. Talking to strangers is great though.

To the extent that the "game" theorists encourage men to behave like the idiots above, they're the bad guys and I'm against "game".

Idem here

MikeC said...

The obvious answer seems to be that 80% of that dating site's men are below average. It would make sense. guys who are above average in looks don't need a dating site

Did you look at the pictures?

Jace said...

MikeC, i think you need to spend more time learning about this subject. you sound like a newbie...The characteristics that a Alpha male typically possess, cause attraction, consistently in all females.

If a guy is alpha, but has a low self image but doesnt show it, hits on girls who are of much lessor social value than he actually IS, but not knowing he is, and she deems herself to be of far lessor value than him, she will probably reject him anyway, because her reality is threatened too much.

Simple way to put it is, a guy who is a 7, will probably be able to hook up with any single girl who is a 7, without having to display alpha characteristics, in other words, it would be implied pretty much straight away that he is the alpha male in the interaction. If a guy is a 7 and is going for a 10(physicallY), but her reality is one of low value, shes 19, no job, a baby or whatever, a provider type who isnt ugly and makes her laugh, there will be no reason she will not see him as the alpha male...Women and men are programmed to respond to the closest possible person..Meaning if you go to a party that is mostly female, and u are the only guy or one of, they will fight over you...they will probably think you are hot anyway, unless you are a total creep..hope this makes sense..

Jace said...

But I have never done a "cold call" in my life. I never approach a woman who is unaware of me and try to overpower her with my charisma, my confidence, my dominance. I keep my eyes and ears open and look for a spark - some sign that she has some interest in me.

see, youre not even giving these women a chance to like you...if you wait for the signs youll miss them, so why wait if you see a pretty girl? why cant someone say hi how are you? what time is the next bus?...have you had a busy day?..banter and if she and yourself enjoy it, why would you not want to see eachother again?...

All depends how many women you would like in your life..for myself, im an attention whore so i like to speak and sleep with as many women as i can. There is nothing immoral about it, its always a light fun sistuation with mutual respect. Guys who ignore this stuff, will have miserable lives with the women who they are "lucky" enough to be with or marry...and it will be in most cases entirely their fault in her eyes.

YOHAMI said...

Jace,

"Women and men are programmed to respond to the closest possible person.."

AMEN. Context is everything.

Jace said...

Yohami, lol yea but that still doesnt mean the 10's at the party will fuck you lol... unfortunately..But you will have higher value in that context ;)...Finding places filled with mostly women dancing and guys just sitting at the bar are a players gold. lol

Jennifer said...

This explains a lot about many women's psyche. Thanks for doing so in a succinct and non-offensive way!

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