Thursday, June 23, 2011

The Breaking of the Delta Heart

In which a woman bolds, underlines, and italicizes the intrinsic falsity of Delta-Gamma thinking. Even if she eventually comes around, she's never truly going to come around:
My problem is that I am not sexually attracted to this nicest guy in the world and I feel super guilty about it. I don't know what’s wrong with me; I feel like a horrible and shallow person by saying this but I am not attracted to his body type. We haven't had sex, and we rarely kiss when he tries to make out with me (I usually have to force myself when we do). He has asked me on several occasions if I am not attracted to him and I have always lied and said that I am and that I am not ready to have sex, but the truth is I am not ready to have sex with him.

Recently he has introduced me to his family and has even mentioned the "love" and "marriage" words, and now I am confused and afraid that I am far to into it to just tell him that I am not into him. I don’t want to hurt his feelings as I believe in Karma and think that it will come back to bite me. I want to be sexually attracted to him because I think he will be a good provider and is definitely marriage material but I don't know how to get myself there. I have read self-help books to try and seek the answer to this question but with no help. I can't have a conversation with my girlfriends because I am afraid they will judge me. I don't know what to do. I don't want to end up alone or realize that he was the best thing in my life after he is gone. Please help. — Not Sexually Attracted
There are five things to take away from this.

1. Never put much credence in anything that women tell you with regards to love, romance, sex, and dating. There is no point in asking women about these things because while they may occasionally tell the truth, they lie so readily that it renders their words totally unreliably. The guy senses that she's not attracted to him, he asks her about it... and she promptly lies to him. Repeatedly. So, how's that working for everyone? The solution is to go with your gut and don't bother asking her about it. And when in doubt, walk. I've never known any man to look back and regret doing so, as usually subsequent events reveal worse behavior than was suspected.

2. Women aren't attracted to kindness, caring respectfulness, or being treated like a lady, even when they desperately want to be. They might - might - appreciate those things in a man to whom they are already attracted, but that's about it.

3. If a woman doesn't attempt to put her tongue down your throat when you're kissing her, move on. Women generally love kissing, so those who give polite little chicken pecks instead of throwing themselves into it are simply are not into you. Find one who is.

4. Always add "with you" when a woman makes statements like "I'm not ready to have sex" or "I'm not looking for a relationship". A woman who is into you will do ANYTHING to be with you, including cheating on her husband, so you're misleading yourself if you think time is going to change or cure anything.

5. Attraction is binary. Even when it takes a while to kick in, it's a totally subconscious process. If it's there, you'll know it. If it's not there, you'll suspect it. Ergo, if you suspect it's not there, it's not there. You can't make a woman be attracted to you, she either is or she isn't. The only thing you can do is increase your Sex Rank and see if she happens to respond to it. If not, don't worry, someone else will. Someone else always will.

Of course, there is always the sixth point. Learn Game or develop at least a moderate case of narcissistic sociopathy. Either will attract the women.

46 comments:

swiftfoxmark2 said...

Point number four is perfectly illustrated in Clive Barker's Hellraiser to describe Julia. In fact, understanding Game helped me to really enjoy that movie even more than I did as a teenager.

Anonymous said...

What's Delta and Gamma again? I'm a sort of Tau, or more like sort of on the Tau/Yod continuum with overtones of Aleph, Octothorpe, and Semicolon, so you can imagine how the system isn't entirely clear to me.

Stingray said...

Anon,

See here,

http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/2011/03/socio-sexual-hierarchy.html

Anonymous said...

...but aside from all sarcasm about your taxonomy, all five points are dead on accurate.

Especially #1: Nothing women say means anything. Talk is cheap. There's an important corollary: They assume that you're the same way. Nothing you say means anything to them unless you've already made the point more forcefully through your behavior.

And #4: If she has trouble scheduling you, it might be a shit test, but more likely you are wasting your time.

Anonymous said...

Stingray: tl;dr. I'm asperger's too, but enough is enough. Alpha/beta/omega works fine.

NateM said...

Reminds me of my health teacher Freshmen year in high school presenting a similar point, albeit for comedic value but also true. He had an overhead projector screen (yea i'm getting old) where one side had What Women Say, and the other What They Mean. pretty much covered #4. Another I have always remember what "I need some space (without you in it)". Also had the translation for "I think we should take a break" which is "I think I am more interested in your brother" and "we have grown apart" which translates to "I never want to talk to you or see you ever again". Best class I ever took in HS

Vox said...

There's an important corollary: They assume that you're the same way.

Very good point. That's usually true.

Stingray said...

Anon,

Dude, I got the joke, but you asked a question; I answered. You're posting as anonymous. I have no idea if you have visited here before or not regardless of how sarcastic the rest of your post was.

NateM said...

From the comments on the linked page

" I understand why she’s having a difficult time letting him go, because it’ll be like kicking a puppy. "

Subject lesson for guys: Don't be a puppy.

JT said...

"You can't make a woman be attracted to you, she either is or she isn't."

Either I'm missing something huge here or that has to be the most anti-Game statement that I've ever read.

Vox said...

"Either I'm missing something huge here or that has to be the most anti-Game statement that I've ever read."

Not at all. Game is an important part of the total package. But it, and the total package, either works to attract a woman or it doesn't. And part of Game is understanding when your Game wasn't enough and moving on to the next woman.

The antithesis of Game is hanging around the same woman and trying desperately to turn her around.

Tiger4Christ said...

Athol Kay says "attraction isn't a choice". But does that mean there is no room to create attraction?

I've experienced that if I can interact with women in relaxed settings over a period of time, they become attracted to me, as my hidden qualities show themselves.

The main hangup is "who is their daddy". In the Bible, every woman has a clear owner, who gets to decide her sexual activity. In todays society, who is that? Parents still play a role; if they don't like you, their acid drip of contempt will murder the marriage. But they abdicate "ownership" as a concept.

Is the government the daddy? What are his rules? And how do the laws in the Bible play into that?

Daddy has to give permission for fucking. Good. Government is daddy? Then permission is already granted. Bride price? No bride price, except in case of divorce, then it is alimony and child support. Back-end loading instead of front-end loading under the Biblical system.

However, daddy government doesn't give or sell his daughters away. He lets any man fuck them, for a price (alimony+child support). He never gives up ownership.

On the flip side, daddy government lets his daughters fuck any man, without any financial or other repercussions.

In the Biblical sense, there is no such thing as marriage in Western Society. There is a fantasy of marriage, which Christian men and women are able to live in to a large degree, by agreement. But the rough edges keep intruding and eroding that fantasy. As long as a man is fairly mainstream, he can keep the fantasy going for a long time, even a lifetime. As soon as he leaves the mainstream, his husbandly "authority" is shown to be the sham it is. In only a few cases is the wife righteous.

Yohami said...

point 5 = gold.

Anonymous said...

The antithesis of Game is hanging around the same woman and trying desperately to turn her around.

So what to do if you're married, just now learning about Game and just hit the big 50? Leaving is not an option. Can Game turn it around if years of apathy on her part has led to resentment on his part?

YOHAMI said...

Leaving is not an option.

Of course it is. Thats the first option you need in your pocket or Game is insignificant. You will be putting too much work for the wrong reasons and get drained.

Make a balance and decide if you prefer to have a good relationship with this woman or many good relationships with many other women.

Whats better, this particular one or abundance? once you´re in that mental frame, you can develop your game.

Anonymous said...

Thats the first option you need in your pocket or Game is insignificant. You will be putting too much work for the wrong reasons and get drained.

That's what I suspected. But what I said is true, we're married, leaving is not an option, at least not within my moral system and I won't leave it.

Yohami said...

you can work within your moral system (I guess christianity) by putting yourself first instead of putting her or your marriage first

put yourself first all the way and roll from there

she might end up loving you, or she might end up leaving you. get your self center in place first.

Vox said...

Can Game turn it around if years of apathy on her part has led to resentment on his part?

It can. That doesn't mean it will. I recommend that you acquire a copy of Athol Kay's book. It will likely help.

Trust said...

@: Nothing women say means anything. Talk is cheap. There's an important corollary: They assume that you're the same way.
__________

There's another point to this as well. The reason so many women don't respond well to pleasing behavior is because they assume it is being used the way they use it... as a manipulation.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous: "Leaving is not an option."

Read this: http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/2011/06/stop-taking-and-start-acting-like-youre.html
(Yes, this particular entry is aimed a the woman, but the same principle applies to men.)

And then read other related entries on raising your own sexual rank and introducing elements of instability within a relationship/marriage to actually make things work better. (Translation: Game your partner; she will love you for it.)

TobyTemple said...

"Attraction is Binary."

the quote of the day!

Difster said...

I spent way too much time in my 20's being the nice guy. Hoping eventually that this girl or that girl would finally realize that I'm best for her. BLAH BLAH BLAH! What a bunch of crap and a big waste of time.

After my divorce I started practicing Game without even knowing what it was at the time. It was amazing. Game - It works.

jay c said...

Anonymous wrote, So what to do if you're married, just now learning about Game and just hit the big 50? Leaving is not an option.

Yohami's advice (re "take care of yourself first") will probably rub you the wrong way, but if you look at it through a mote-vs-beam lens, I think it really is true. Your focus shouldn't be on putting yourself first, but on taking care of your own business first. Your job as husband is to direct your family according to the mission that God has given you. YOU get off your duff and do what God has told you to do. Get YOUR life in order and start moving in the direction God wants you to take without consideration for whether your wife likes it or not. If your wife chooses to get up and follow you, great! If she doesn't, oh well. Having a wife is often helpful, but almost never necessary.

You are in charge. Act like it. She'll get herself in line or she won't. That's her problem, not yours.

Stilicho said...

"Of course, there is always the sixth point. Learn Game or develop at least a moderate case of narcissistic sociopathy. Either will attract the women."

Ha! Here I thought I was a natural. Turns out, I'm just a sociopath in love with myself! Oh well, I can live with that.

NateM said...

"YOU get off your duff and do what God has told you to do. Get YOUR life in order and start moving in the direction God wants you to take"

This. Very well said. I find a good mantra (for me at least) when I find myself feeling bad about something, to ask myself "what are you going to do about it?" or "what ARE you doing about it". This is a great motivator to get started and to banish those negative thoughts that only drag you down. Basically don't give yourself permission to complain, instead asking what you have done about it today? I use this for motivation to get in shape, and it makes me put down the remote/ice cream sandwich or whatever and lift some weights, or do some cal, or take a run, so at least I can say I did something today and I didn't just sit and let another day pass with no improvement to the situation.

This goes with the dating method as well, as Susan said a few days ago, about the guys who focus on the injustice and the guys who focus on getting laid. I've found plenty of time that the whiners are very often Not the doers. They talk a good game but if you asked them what they have done to implement their grand plan? *crickets*

Anonymous said...

@Jayc & NateM - message received. I need to focus more on doing and less on thinking and talking.

How's this for starters. As she left for a grocery run I told her we were out of a personal item. She protested and said I should get it. At first I tried to explain why she should then quit and said OK, I'll get it. Later she came back and said she'd get it, she didn't want to be difficult. I gave a cheerful chuckle and smile and said "too late".

YOHAMI said...

your marriage is passive aggressive hell.

why would it be "moral" to keep such a reality bender monster alive is beyond of me

fix it or kill it

Anonymous said...

Forgive me, I'm not up on P/A or Game. I tho't I did good by not pursuing an argument I would not win and then later giving her a neg w/o being mean. She actually laughed at my remark.

How would you fix it?

YOHAMI said...

the "fixed" state: you in the dominant role and she in the passive role, and both content. She looking you up to her protector and guide, you looking at her like she is your treasure and what makes you proud

Thats the fairy tale. Thats the natural dynamics between alpha and female. the female will attempt to exploit and attempt to destroy that order continually though, by challenging you, playing jealousy, creating drama plots= being a woman.

your job is to remain like a tree of goodness and put her in her place when needed, and never lose your cool. her job is to listen and care about your feelings and not just her own and provide you with support to your fight

that, while there is love.

if there aint no love but a moral obligation, then you both are prisoners and will just hurt each other. she by constantly putting you down and you by constantly complaining about her not fulfilling her role

your marriage sounds like the latter

if you still have love, then your work is to become alpha. how? first learn game, understand whats going on, then ingrain these mechanics in your psyche and sacrifice your old routines and old assumptions. be alpha, lead, tease, command, be prouder, wiser, stronger, be always right, not just in appearance but in facts. And humble and taking enough when you are wrong.

But that if there is love, if she loves you and you still love her, that might work.

However, you becoming alpha isnt a recipe to save all marriages. You having game and being the man, doesnt mean she will take it, she will work for it, she will change. She might not. She might not care. She might have her own agenda. She´s her own persona.

You can do your part but she still has to do hers

CSPB said...

Anonymous,

When you attempted to explain, you were in a defensive role. She had taken the frame of the issue and you reacted to her gy logically trying to convice her. This will always fail.

Keep the frame. Do not ask her to pick up something for you... TELL her. Relaearning what to do as a man will take time and study. This is why you need Athol Kay's book.

Desert Cat said...

"YOHAMI said...
the "fixed" state:..." (copy, paste, save)

This is good stuff, an excellent overview.

Captain Obvious said...


That's what I suspected. But what I said is true, we're married, leaving is not an option, at least not within my moral system and I won't leave it.


Well, you can take your vows seriously without pandering to her. If she chooses to leave because she is a brat, then that's what she chooses. Not you. Simply don't remarry or date.

Putting up with her behavior and having no recourse thanks to rabid cop-man is not part of your marriage vows. When she aims the divorce gun and the rabid cop-man gun at you, the marriage vows have already been broken by her. Not you. Her. Acknowledging this fact. That you have been removed from authority by her, is not breaking your vows.

Again, simply don't remarry or date. If you are past 50 that isn't going to be hard anyway.

Captain Obvious said...


How's this for starters. As she left for a grocery run I told her we were out of a personal item. She protested and said I should get it. At first I tried to explain why she should then quit and said OK, I'll get it. Later she came back and said she'd get it, she didn't want to be difficult. I gave a cheerful chuckle and smile and said "too late".


Oops. That's a very minor test. Which you seem to have deliberately failed for some personal motive. Yeah, you need to pass basic tests. It's not unreasonable or hard.

You two seem to have some married-person games going on as well. With you playing your part with determination as well.

indyguy77@work said...

"There's another point to this as well. The reason so many women don't respond well to pleasing behavior is because they assume it is being used the way they use it... as a manipulation."

That's a hard one for me to remember as a matter of course.

I typically assume everyone means what they say and means what they say.

It's always amusing to remind a woman re: something about which she so passionately waxed on, only to be hit with the rejoinder of "I never said that!"

That's caused my jaw to drop more than once.

NateM said...

http://deadspin.com/5816412/

Here's something for the 'don't listen to what women say about dating/hookups' department. Clearly this girl was pissed about only being a pump and dump even for a chud like Quentin Tarantino, and tries to write revisionist history where she 'like totally didn't care and was just doing it for the story' Methinks the lady doth protest too much. Sure QT is a freak, but is she seriously pretending she didn't ride his ugly dong like it was going to shoot out 100 dollar bills or a movie part?

Anonymous said...

@Captain Obvious

Oops. That's a very minor test. Which you seem to have deliberately failed for some personal motive. Yeah, you need to pass basic tests. It's not unreasonable or hard.

What should I have done to pass the test? Seriously, I'm in this much need of tutoring.

Jennifer said...

This has some of the most shit I've ever seen. You do not "command" a woman in a relationship or push her into a passive state; all the crap about pushing them one way or another, or them fighting the "natural order", is horseshit. The natural order is for a man to be strong, not for him to rule a woman. There are also issues with the "rules" here: I understand that people's behaviors will speak more than their words and I agree, but to assume all women lie is false. This sums it up well: "Nothing you say means anything to them unless you've already made the point more forcefully through your behavior". And believe it or not, sometimes a woman will not sleep with you even if she wants to; other things can be more important, like her kids or her faith. Many women are very much attracted by kindness and respect, those looking for LONG-term good men anyway, but Vox's underlined point here is true: if she's just not attracted to a guy, his gestures won't change that.

"In the Bible, every woman has a clear owner, who gets to decide her sexual activity"

Welcome to the new world. And I suggest any married man ignore Yohami's ammoral suggestions for putting yourself first.

YOHAMI said...

Jenn,

"And I suggest any married man ignore Yohami's ammoral suggestions for putting yourself first."

Why?

Jennifer said...

Because I'm a Christian, Yohami. I DO believe that everyone should have their own mission in life; if your spouse leaves you, you'll need to move on. But your spouse is supposed to come first when it comes to regard. Game covers many important arenas of male psychological health, but some have taken it much too far, and any spouse putting themselves as the wiser, the prouder, and the "always right" leads to emotional abuse.

I do agree with these words: "You becoming alpha isnt a recipe to save all marriages. You having game and being the man, doesnt mean she will take it, she will work for it, she will change. She might not. She might not care. She might have her own agenda. She´s her own persona".

Jennifer said...

Oh and btw: if a woman's not used to kissing, she may go a little slower than gagging you with her tongue. For me, I'd get really into it, but I actually don't care for French kissing.

Yohami said...

Jenn,

"any spouse putting themselves as the wiser, the prouder, and the "always right" leads to emotional abuse."

Yeah but, this guy is suffering from emotional abuse. What would you advice him to do? put his spouse first?

Jennifer said...

No, this would be one of the times he would need to put himself first. I'm simply speaking of what marriage in general should be about: putting the other first. But abuse, whether emotional or physical, is ALWAYS an exception. I agree with your solution in this case, not in all scenarios of marriage.

Yohami said...

yah, I would never root for "abuse" of any kind

theres a big gap between putting yourself first and not caring about anyone else

Jennifer said...

"Women aren't attracted to kindness, caring respectfulness, or being treated like a lady, even when they desperately want to be"

There may or may not be a sexual attraction; if men with a strong frame act like gentlemen, they could definitely be turned on. But there is a deeper attraction to being treated with kindness; those are the men women will marry (provided that they have strength, confidence and the other masculine traits).

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