Tuesday, May 24, 2011

Why Alphas don't believe in Game

Dr. Helen mentioned that she recently bought two of the core Game books, by Strauss and Mystery, in order to help out a clueless male relative for whom the "just be yourself" advice has predictably failed. As so often happens in Game-related discussions, the chest-beating Alphas were quick to leap in and insist that Game can't possibly work because they don't know anything about it and have nevertheless had considerable success with women.
At the age of 17, I had more girls than most guys date in their lives. You want to believe the bullshit of braggarts? Go ahead. That's not bullshit, and I'm not bragging. I am telling you that my method works; it has for 35 years.
I responded thusly to the furry chest-beater:

Congratulations. You have managed to completely miss the point. If what you are saying is true, then you are a natural alpha. And being a natural alpha, you have absolutely no idea what it is that you do or how you do it. You can't successfully tell other men how to behave any more than Magic Johnson could coach basketball.

What Game is, at its core, is articulating and synthesizing natural Alpha behavior. This allows non-Alphas to attract women as if they were Alphas. It is real, it is scientific in the historical sense of science, and it is extraordinarily effective with all women. Unsurprisingly, both natural Alphas and women who have not thought the matter through tend to hate the very idea of Game, as has been demonstrated in the comments above. Natural Alphas hate losing their monopoly and women fear discovering they chose a synthetic Alpha rather than a natural one.

Women aren't actually lying when they mislead men, they are merely being incomplete. When they say they want a nice, polite man who respects them, they are assuming that he is someone they are already attracted to. They have no idea how a man attracts them; asking a woman what attracts her is about as effective as asking a duck about what it would prefer in a duck call.

Those who attempt to argue against Game, almost always in ignorance, are foolishly arguing against that which has been hypothesized, tested, and proved with a much larger sample size than any drug ever approved by the FDA.

79 comments:

Yohami said...

What everybody hates is to se a non alpha (read, not worthy man) FAKING attributes and behavior and TRICKING women into thinking he is what he is not for SEX only

That that same bite is your own obstacle to learn and articulate the whole thing

And its what feels wrong / off

And its why non alphas fear women. Its a natural instinct: the best women are reserved for the alphas. We expect things to work that way.

So rather than learning game, become alpha, and all these girls will expect to be yours and jump in your lap without you having to chase trick or game them individually.

Desert Cat said...

"So rather than learning game, become alpha"...

OK Einstein, care to elaborate on THAT Grand Canyon Sized Leap?

(...ow, my head...)

That fellow from the link is doing the same thing--"be a man..." Yeah, great advice, dork!

Between those points is the vast pool of knowledge known as Game.

Yohami said...

elaborating on that is like a part time job by now

in short, now that you know what women are attracted to, "become it" rather than "simulate it"

you´ll find for the most part, you wanted to be that person anyway

Yohami said...

desertcat, im going to post a lot of stuff here soon www.yohami.com

Vox said...

"Rather than learning game, become alpha"

The entire point of learning Game is learning how to become alpha, or at least ALPHA. As Roissy has pointed out, it's simply another application of the "fake it until you make it" model.

Yohami said...

"fake until you become" doesnt work, its the wrong approach

Vox said...

That's how I've heard it described. I tend to see it more like learning to play an instrument or lifting weights. There's nothing fake about playing your first chord or doing a set of one at 135 on the bench.

I have seen discussion of "inner" versus "outer" Game, but to me the distinction is artificial. Routines and so forth are simply there as baby steps. Once one has mastered an aspect of Game, it becomes entirely natural and automatic.

Desert Cat said...

"in short, now that you know what women are attracted to, "become it" rather than "simulate it" "

Semantics.

Really. You become what you do, and the longer and more consistently you do it, the more it internalizes.

There may be shortcuts to inner game, and I would certainly be interested in such things, and it is plausible to start with inner game and work toward the outside, but to categorically state "fake it until you make it" doesn't work, is false.

Yohami said...

Vox,

Game is not to become alpha, its to become a PUA. Alphas dont have "routines" in the sense of what PUAs do

You can use Game to become alpha by ditching a big chunk of what regular game is about

"There's nothing fake about playing your first chord or doing a set of one at 135 on the bench."

Exactly.

Yohami said...

Cat,

"Semantics."

If you become what you do, and you approach this with a "faking it" mentality, you become a faker.

"but to categorically state "fake it until you make it" doesn't work, is false."

The part of it that works is the part you didnt fake: the courage to do the thing, go out, talk to people, user your brain to figure whats going on, etc, all of that is "real"

Faking you are a pro tennis player doesnt make you one. Playing tennis does. If you invest all of the energy on the "real" game and forget the pretending part, that doubles your speed at learning

Fakers dont get far

modernguy said...

@Yohami

You could spend your entire life striving to become an 'alpha' in the true sense while the women you want to sleep with are sleeping with some good-for-nothing drug dealing 'bad boy'.

What is 'alpha' for men and what is 'alpha' for women are two completely different things. Women are interested in image, men are interested in substance. Which is why game works.

Booch Paradise said...

Of course routines are used at first and then internalized. Saying that it does not work that way is like saying that teaching a sports team pre thought out plays makes them worse at the sport. That is how I learned basketball, not by playing "natural" pickup games. But now when I do play against people who learned "naturally" on the streets, even if they more skilled than me I kick their asses because I've learned more fundamentals about how to make a play then they will ever know. The plays that I make are no longer pre scripted. I'm now a natural.

Yohami said...

if you look up to good-for-nothing drug dealing 'bad boy's, its easier to become one than faking you are one so you can sleep with those girls

if you dont look up or get repulsed by good-for-nothings, faking being one to the point of "tricking girls into fuck you" is dumb and counterproductive and you wont even like the girls when you get them

women always want the same traits, these traits are not the property of the bad boys. they exhibit them because they missed the "dont be a man" class most of us attended

Desert Cat said...

Yes, semantics.

To you it appears that "fake it til you make it" means, "be fake. Be who you are not. Remind yourself that this is fake, not real."

To me, "fake it til you make it" means "do what does not come naturally to you. Do what makes you uncomfortable, until it becomes comfortable and begins to feel natural."

Yohami said...

"Do what makes you uncomfortable, until it becomes comfortable and begins to feel natural."

Thats the proper approach.

Anonymous said...

Which is what DC was saying all along, the only thing that changed was your perception of what he was saying.

Yohami said...

Anonymous,

"fake until you become" is like saying "lie until it becomes true" which is different to saying "get out of your comfort zone"

So no, its not what DC was saying. Fake it until you become it has been doing the rounds for some years, and what newcomers do is to go "fake" indeed.

Lying doesnt make something become true, but in the process you might stop caring to about whats truth and what is not and get lost.

Anonymous said...

Semantics matter, if for no other reason than to avoid arguing with somebody who's agreeing with you.

Anonymous said...

Fake means fake. Playing your first chord is not faking playing guitar, it is actually playing. Pretending to be a guitarist by faking that you can play might impress a dimwit, but wont get you any closer to being an actual guitarist. I am with Yohami on this one. Maybe fake it until you make it should be dropped as a saying. Do it until you make it just doesnt have the same ring I guess.

I've seen it used a lot with regards to happiness. If you are not happy, pretend to be until you actually start to feel happy. I don't like this approach, I would rather start digging and find out why I am unhappy, then do something about it.

SF

Mike T said...

"fake until you become" is like saying "lie until it becomes true" which is different to saying "get out of your comfort zone"

By that logic, no one should try to effect a proper accent when learning a language until they are conversationally proficient in syntax and vocabulary.

Yohami said...

learning an accent is not faking

faking is when you dont know the language but act like you did

and it all ends the minute you get tested

Vox said...

So no, its not what DC was saying. Fake it until you become it has been doing the rounds for some years, and what newcomers do is to go "fake" indeed.

I understand what you're saying and don't entirely disagree, but I do think there are grey areas. For example, it's not faking anything to learn what indications of interest are. And some degree of "fakery" is necessary to simply function in human society. I have to veil my eyes on a daily basis in order to avoid upsetting strangers when I'm out and about.

Is that fake? I'm certainly hiding the real me from view, but it doesn't change who I am in the slightest.

That being said, I admit there are few things more ludicrous than the gammas pretending to be uber-alphas at the various Game blogs and striking absurd postures when telling how they would have handled various scenarios. That sort of "faking it" is utterly pointless and will never lead to genuine confidence.

Yohami said...

"Is that fake? I'm certainly hiding the real me from view, but it doesn't change who I am in the slightest."

No, fake is when you pretend you are someone you are not, to profit from the results this someone would obtain

So you would not only cover your true self but in addition add a layer of lies and hold that surface in hopes nobody realizes whats going on, and hopefully trick people into liking your facade

and then it will all burn.

Anonymous said...

What people are talking about here though is faking confidence that you don't yet have and social skills that do not come naturally to you. With practice you get confidence and social skills and it becomes real.

You are putting a definition of fake into everyones mouth that they are not using.

Yohami said...

"faking confidence that you don't yet have and social skills that do not come naturally to you."

Thats precisely what Im talking about

Instead of faking the confidence and the social skills, develop the confidence and the social skills, so they are not fake

or better question yourself why do you embrace the fake word, because thats what all of this is about

the "fake" is tempting because if you fake, you dont have to do it for real. you dont have to change

Im just pointing at the obvious. for this to work is has to be real and you have to change. if you change, its no longer fake. you dont need to start by doing fake in hopes of being real. you can be real from moment one.

Desert Cat said...

I know little about modern acting methods, but I do know a little bit about "getting into character" from way back in high school drama club. A good actor does not memorize and regurgitate lines. He memorizes his lines, but more importantly learns to "be" the character he is playing so that his acting is much more believable.

I played the part of Donald in "You Can't Take It With You". Donald had a sweet spot for the maid Rheba, and his part in the play revolved around him finding reasons to come around being helpful so that he could interact with Rheba.

I memorized the lines, but also got into the character to sufficient degree that "Donald" was interacting with "Rheba" in character backstage and off set.

Stupidly, I did not realize the tremendous crush this little actress had developed on me until much too late.

My point is, I and most boys growing up in the 1970's were handed the "don't be a man" script that feminism was shoving down the collective throats of the culture of that day. I learned it, memorized the lines, and became that script, until years later things that didn't work became too big to ignore.

Game is nothing more than the script for "Alpha" or "Man".

Learn the lines. Memorize the moves. Get into the character. Act, until you become that character.

There is no magic incantation that will take you from "gamma wheedler" to "alpha stud" without some acting and memorizing along the way.

Yohami said...

Back to what Vox said with the playing an instrument analogy.

If we had been all raised by alphas, then we would be, or, will act like such. Just like most french people act french.

These french people isnt "faking" being french, they are just repeating the patterns they accepted to be real, and they developed their own personalities within these frames

If you were born and raised in the USA and you want to pass for a french because people like frenchmen, then you would have to

1) go france and spend a lot of time and adopt the culture and become french

2) fake french, pick an accent and say french bullshit that most people will swallow anyway

So, fake has quicker results

Problem is that you fake for the results and not because you love french, so, in the medium short run, it will burn. It just will. The first time you get tested.

Turning this into alphaness:

Luckily, the alpha behavior is just manly behavior. If you are a man, and have your balls and testosterone and masculine brain, becoming alpha is NATURAL, is a natural drive, the same you feel when get competitive over sports etc. Chances are you have been repressing it and castrating it and all you have to do is to let it loose

You can practice and do the game stuff to help yourself rediscover yourself

If you keep the "fake" attitude, though, you are internally blocking yourself from being it, because you keep the internal frame that you are "not" so you have to "run it" on top of you.

If you want to become, first step is to abandon your nationality (red pill). Kill the beta, omega, whatever state you are now. Go deeper.

Then regrow from there. Do the game stuff if you want. But this aint "fake"

This is just you relearning how to speak, and developing your own personality on top of the frame.

Like you were born in france

Duh. You are already french. You are. Be it. Be a mofo alpha. Re acquire it. Let it be.

Yohami said...

DC,

Thats the thing, being alpha is not a character. Its a configuration of your real internal drives and instincts and stuff you already have.

You can run alpha as a character and fake it just like you can do anything as a character, including playing guitar and tennis.

But doing it as a character is a waste of time - compared to doing the real thing

Desert Cat said...

Circles within circles. We're going nowhere. I think we agree. You just seem to dislike the word choices.

Yohami said...

yep, at the end we want the "make it" part.

We only disagree with faking as a valid path to get there

Desert Cat said...

What part of "until you become" is giving you indigestion?

"Fake" is not the end goal. "Acting as if" is not the pinnacle. Either are steps on the way to becoming.

I challenge you Yohami to get up and stage and just become a lead guitarist! Just do it! Don't waste time practicing, learning riffs and chords and smooth transitions, listening to the masters and emulating their styles. Just make it real from day one!

Yohami said...

Theres nothing fake about:

"practicing, learning riffs and chords and smooth transitions, listening to the masters and emulating their styles."

Thats real work.

Yohami said...

I challenge you to "fake you have the skills" until you become guitarist

Desert Cat said...

"emulating their styles" is faking it.

It is also a valid step in learning to play lead guitar.

Those who become masters eventually develop their own styles, write their own riffs and shred to the beat of their own muse. But learning to play a mean Jimi Hendrix cover ("faking Jimi Hendrix") will make you look awfully damn good.

Same thing with emulating Alpha behavior.

Funny thing is, most musicians will cite one or several great musicians as being major influences, and often you can hear that influence in their music. Doubtless at one point in their career they were "faking" those musicians, learning their lines, learning their moves, emulating their sound, until they internalized that sound and made it their own.

Likewise the notion of Game as a script. You memorize the lines and the moves, rehearse and polish, not because you want to "fake" the character, but ultimately you aim to **become** the character.

I've got to stop here and go back to work. I can almost hear Vox's eyeballs rolling back in their sockets at all this Aspie pedantry...

modernguy said...

There is a lot of missing the point going on here. There are plenty of 'real' men monks or coal miners who don't get any action.

Game is not about becoming a man, it's about becoming a man who is attractive to women, which necessarily involves a lot of fakery, in the sense of going against your natural instincts. Because women like social, adventurous men, and men like to sit on the couch and drink beer. Which is the root of a lot of divorces, and goes to show you that what women want is not a real man, but a socially exceptional man. And it also explains why strumming a guitar and writing some lyrics might make one think he has reached the heights of real manhood, while applying a different scale, a farmer, soldier, or oil driller is doing much harder, more noble, more manly work but probably doesn't get as much female attention.

Booch Paradise said...

So apparently Yahami does not think that PUA have actual social skills or confidence. Its all fake for them.

What makes some one a pick up artist is not the method but the application.

And the way you develop confidence is by faking it. If you want an example, take basketball. You shoot the ball like you are a good shot, even though you are not. Do enough and you will start making some shoots. Keep at it and you will become a dead-eye.

Desert Cat said...

"I challenge you to "fake you have the skills" until you become guitarist"

I take it you haven't listened to many dive bar bands? ;P

Yohami said...

words have a meaning

"emulating" isnt fake, emulating and playing and "as if" is how we learn everything

Fake:

1. One that is not authentic or genuine; a sham.
2. Sports A brief feint or aborted change of direction intended to mislead one's opponent or the opposing team.
v. faked, fak·ing, fakes
v.tr.
1. To contrive and present as genuine; counterfeit.
2. To simulate; feign.
3. Music To improvise (a passage).
4. Sports To deceive (an opponent) with a fake. Often used with out.
v.intr.
1. To engage in feigning, simulation, or other deceptive activity.

Try using that to learn guitar

Yohami said...

Modernguy,

"Game is not about becoming a man, it's about becoming a man who is attractive to women, which necessarily involves a lot of fakery, in the sense of going against your natural instincts. Because women like social, adventurous men, and men like to sit on the couch and drink beer."

Yes. GAME is about taking a beta unattractive dude and pimping him on the surface so he can pass for an adventurous man and get some pussy, all of that against his natural drives.

I shouldnt have to add anything else, because this is obviously a flawled model.

But if you want to "become" then you have to revise your drives and change them, if you feel like it, and maybe the couch and the beer will get boring

As they should

Yohami said...

"I take it you haven't listened to many dive bar bands? ;P "

haha. and they get pussy too. aint world unfair.

Yohami said...

Booch,

"What makes some one a pick up artist is not the method but the application."

Yep

"And the way you develop confidence is by faking it."

Nope. Confidence is the result of the skills practice and experience. Fake has nothing to do with it.

"If you want an example, take basketball. You shoot the ball like you are a good shot, even though you are not. Do enough and you will start making some shoots. Keep at it and you will become a dead-eye."

Thats not a fake, thats trying many shots while attempting to do a good one and believing you can (and you can).

Booch Paradise said...

Yohami,
So I'm not even sure what you would intemperate as fake then in this situation. How would you even theoretically fake confidence?

Yohami said...

Booch,

Fake confidence = the bad singers on american idol = deluded selves = entitlement = ego

Confidence that is not backed by skills or experience, just your ideal or projection of how things should be

Guys / people is afraid to get hurt, so people project this confidence and fake self (and get hurt anyway)

While the real shortcut is to get the experience skills and do the work that will naturally form confidence and serve to pass the "tests"

Fake confidence relies on a loop of affirmations that have to be backed by results. Say, if you have this ego that you are the no. 1 basketball player in the world, then you need to score, if you dont, you feel and experience a crush

So one way to not get crushed once you have this fake confidence is not doing anyhing. Not wanting to do stuff nor wanting to get out of the mold, which translates to stress, and in Game this is

"approach anxiety"

In contrast, if you just play basketball and your confidence isnt faked but backed by experience or curiosity or just "play" theres no big deal. If you lose you experience anger and disappointment, but in a way it refuels the tank to play even further

And that makes you learn its not about the ego but about the skill, so no "fake" no "unauthentic" but pure detachment

Thats why you will see a LOT of the top players on every field actually being HUMBLE and grateful, contrast that to the fakerish ego of the ones not doing the work

modernguy said...

"Yes. GAME is about taking a beta unattractive dude and pimping him on the surface so he can pass for an adventurous man and get some pussy, all of that against his natural drives."

So what are you advocating dude? Should the farmers of America rise up from their beta purgatory and take up the noble art of picking guitar strings?

There 2 levels of confusion surrounding game:

The first one is that what is noble for a man is what is attractive to women, which is not true.

The second, based on the first, is implied and states that what is attractive to women (presumable becoming a 'real' man) is what is good for society, which is also not true.

Both of them stemming from the grievous error known as "sexual liberation".

What society doesn't need is hard working traditional men 'manning' up Yohami style into the Mick Jaggers of the world.

Yohami said...

Modernguy,

I dont know. Are the farmer girls of america chasing Mick Jagger?

Rise from beta purgatory, yes.

Sexual liberation, I dont really know what it means. I see most of it forced, women pushed to be sluts and men pushed to be doormats. What would happen if these two forces ceased.

And, being alpha aint for everybody either.

But for sure faking / being unauthentic is not the way to go.

Vox said...

I challenge you to "fake you have the skills" until you become guitarist

As it happens, I just scored a five-star performance on "Fade To Black" playing Guitar Hero Metallica. I think I'm ready for the stage now.

Anonymous said...

Yohami, what about makeup, hair coloring or extensions, push-up bras, slimming underwear and other 'faking it' items that women use to attract men?

Yohami said...

"what about makeup, hair coloring or extensions, push-up bras, slimming underwear and other 'faking it' items that women use to attract men?"

Thats fake for sure. The women see it as "advertising" though. But, as a man you have to be sure you there´s a cute face and good tits under all of the facade and an interesting person.


See, Im not saying there are no results when you fake. There are. Superficial and quick. But it gets exhausted quickly, really, it breaks every time you get tested. The experience you get in return make it worthwhile for a while, a short one.

Thing is, once you steped in the "im going to make this by faking" is similar to the fat girl who relies on makeup or sluttiness to succeed at mating. Its a long fall. So, since its a fall, why starting it at all.

The same stuff you would have to "fake" you would have to do it anyway, but from a different frame. Go out, talk to, change your ways, project a stronger persona, be genuine, though. Thats it.

Im not ranting about game, just ranting about fake.

Lipstick looks good but tastes bad. Silicon tits look very good but not so good in your hands. Genuine is the real treasure here, if you go a path that enhances and em-powers (hate that word) whats genuine and real in you, filtering the unwanted loserdom and working on the ugly bytes, thats soo much rewarding.

It took me about 10 years to figure this thing out. I wish I had knew 20 years ago. So be real.

Ted Walther said...

Instead of "fake it until you make it", how about "practice makes perfect"? Grandma taught me that one.

Desert Cat said...

Wow. That's just...awesome.

Can I "emulate" you Yohami?

K, here goes...

"words have a meaning"

Indeed they do!

"Fake:
1. One that is not authentic or genuine; a sham.
2. Sports A brief feint or aborted change of direction intended to mislead one's opponent or the opposing team.
v. faked, fak·ing, fakes
v.tr.
1. To contrive and present as genuine; counterfeit.
2. To simulate; feign.
3. Music To improvise (a passage).
4. Sports To deceive (an opponent) with a fake. Often used with out.
v.intr.
1. To engage in feigning, simulation, or other deceptive activity."

So from this definition we have the following synonyms:
1) Contrive
2) Simulate
3) Feign
4) Deceive
5) Improvise

Now let’s see what “emulate” means:
From the World English Dictionary

"emulate  (ˈɛmjʊˌleɪt)   — vb 1. to attempt to equal or surpass, esp by imitation 2. to rival or compete with 3. to make one computer behave like (another different type of computer) so that the imitating system can operate on the same data and execute the same programs as the imitated system"

Discounting the computer definition we have synonyms:
1) Imitate
2) Rival
3) Compete with

Now “imitate”:

"imitate  (ˈɪmɪˌteɪt)   — vb 1. to try to follow the manner, style, character, etc, of or take as a model: many writers imitated the language of Shakespeare 2. to pretend to be or to impersonate, esp for humour; mimic 3. to make a copy or reproduction of; duplicate; counterfeit 4. to make or be like; resemble or simulate: her achievements in politics imitated her earlier successes in business"

Synonyms:
1) Impersonate
2) Mimic
3) Duplicate
4) Counterfeit*
5) Simulate*
6) Pretend

Hmm…were starting to see some interesting synonyms here.

How about “pretend”:
From Dictionary.com, based upon Random House Dictionary 2011:

"—Synonyms
1.  simulate, fake, sham, counterfeit. Pretend, affect, assume, feign  imply an attempt to create a false appearance. To pretend  is to create an imaginary characteristic or to play a part: to pretend sorrow. To affect  is to make a consciously artificial show of having qualities that one thinks would look well and impress others: to affect shyness. To assume  is to take on or put on a specific outward appearance, often (but not always) with intent to deceive: to assume an air of indifference. To feign  implies using ingenuity in pretense, and some degree of imitation of appearance or characteristics: to feign surprise."

Wow, how about that! To “pretend” is to “fake”. And to “imitate” is to “pretend to be”. And to “emulate” is to “imitate”.
In context, “fake it until you make it” would be synonymous with “emulate until you become”.

Yohami said...

Cat, I like your dictionary skills. If we keep that up, maybe we can demonstrate fake = real

Yohami said...

Ted, yeah, "practice makes perfect"

Anonymous said...

So basically, Yohami is starting up a website and wants to promote it as being 'different' from the rest, hence the semantic quibbling and panning of other approaches.
Gee, where haven't we seen that happen before. The more we try to be different, the more we end up being the same.

Yohami said...

yeah, right, you got me

Anonymous said...

Zing?

Yohami said...

shhh dont tell anyone else

Anonymous said...

heh, gay

Yohami said...

we know you are

Anonymous said...

yes, which is why you are acting so butthurt

Yohami said...

im having fun, anon. not as much as Cat with the dictionary, but I will get there

Anonymous said...

"Those who attempt to argue against Game, almost always in ignorance, are foolishly arguing against that which has been hypothesized, tested, and proved with a much larger sample size than any drug ever approved by the FDA." WOW! I never thought of it that way

The LP 999/Linda said...

Gees!? What happened here with this gang?

The LP 999/Linda said...

Talk about taking the most easiest to understand concepts into a far outer field.

Yohami said...

Fake in action http://yohami.com/blog/2011/05/26/overall-he-is-a-failure-but-at-least-he-tried-not/

See, the last guy, the thin artsy one with the low voice had her. But he ruined it. Seriously anyone charging money from these guys and telling them to do stupid fake stuff should serve time or get their PUA license removed or at least be ridiculed.

Pickup lines my ass.

Yohami said...

I meant the second guy. The girl´s body language changed. She got disappointed quickly though.

Been watching that video for half an hours. Every phrase, everything is wrong. The guys are 101% reactive, chase mood, scared, stiff, or in entertainer mode. So crappy.

What do you think Cat? can you fake that until you make it?

Yohami said...

or check this "guru"

http://www.the21convention.com/2011/05/19/vince-kelvin-t21c-2010/

puke.

Jack Amok said...

Hmmm. I actually had something to say about the topic of the post and why some natural alphas are not unhappy about Game. But at this point, with all of Yohami's willfully obtuse comments (question Yohami, did you fake being that obtuse until you became it, or did it just come naturally to you?), I doubt anyone is still reading.

But I'll post it anyway. I'm not unhappy about Game being talked about so much despite being a natural alpha because I find it enlightening to understand why things worked. I also find it helpful to have a rational explanation for things because, as Desert Cat said way, way up above, the modern world has been trying to tell us we're "wrong" or broken for our entire lives. It's good to know as opposed to suspect that we're just fine. It's also nice to know my wife is just fine too and not dysfunctional herself.

As to losing the monopoly, contra Roissy, the majority of alphas don't really need dozens upon dozens of women. Most of us are content to have the pick of the litter and trade in the left hand side of our notch curves for the benefits of modern civilization.

Because quite frankly, a polygamous/hypergamous society cannot maintain itself beyond subsistence aggriculture. Plus there tends to be a lot of violence, and alphas aren't immune to the dying. An xbox and the time to play it is definitely worth giving up sex with a hundred 6's and 7's. Well, as long as you've got an 8 or 9 waiting for you in the bedroom when you're done playing.

Yohami said...

Jack,

Im not obtuse dude. Im talking to a guy who is trying to go from omega to alpha and Im helping to cut the noise. I climbed a similar ladder, and there is a LOT of noise and not very clear choices when you are alien to the thing.

All Im saying is become alpha, rather than becoming a PUA.

"the modern world has been trying to tell us we're "wrong" or broken for our entire lives."

Yes, thats the real problem. Society trying to fix something that wasnt broken, and breaking us to "fix us"

"the majority of alphas don't really need dozens upon dozens of women."

Thats right. The dozens will come anyway, just not in PUA fashion.

"frankly, a polygamous/hypergamous society cannot maintain itself beyond subsistence aggriculture."

not sure about that (and we dont live on agriculture anymore)

Anonymous said...

As clearly seen from the obsessive-compulsive nature of his comments, Yohami is still omega. He's just faking alpha.

Yohami said...

Meh.

Anonymous said...

ahahahaha - and camping the comments section to reply just 2 minutes later. Dude, not only are you obsessive compulsive, but anal retentive as well. Get a life.

Yohami said...

I get an email whenever there´s a reply, duh.

If you want to participate, add something to the debate. Flame wars wont work.

Jack Amok said...

and we dont live on agriculture anymore

Oh, really? Where's your food come from, Star Trek replicators? But you've missed my point anyway. Wide-spread monogamy is necessary for an advanced civilization. A society were 60-70% of men have no opportunity to reproduce doesn't function very well. All that we have around us today is based on Marriage 1.0, and it will not survive long beyond the reestablishement of harem culture as the dominant reproductive model.

Yohami said...

Jack, back to your quote

"Because quite frankly, a polygamous/hypergamous society cannot maintain itself beyond subsistence aggriculture."

Got it, you mean without monogamy civilization cant advance, as follows:

"Wide-spread monogamy is necessary for an advanced civilization."

"A society were 60-70% of men have no opportunity to reproduce doesn't function very well."

"All that we have around us today is based on Marriage 1.0, and it will not survive long beyond the reestablishement of harem culture"

Can you argument why?

Desert Cat said...

Go here for a reasonably cogent exposition...

Jack Amok said...

Who keeps the generators working at your local electrical plant? Or the pumps running at the sewer plant? Who designs airplanes, combine harvesters, automobiles, transistors, medical lasers, industrial robots, etc. etc. etc.?

Millions of Betas, for the most part. They do it for the paycheck so they can support a wife and family. Take the women away from the Betas to fill out all the Alpha harems, and poof. None of that stuff gets done any more. Instead, Betas spend their time goofing off, or, worse, rising up in rebellions or signing onto pirate/brigand ventures.

Monogamy is the foundation of civilization.

Yohami said...

Cat, thanks for the link, its well written. I dont agree with all of it but for the most part, fine:

1) In the old marriage both parties owned the other. Women = sex and childs and family, Men = labor money and power. It worked.

2) Current marriage is biased in favor to women which turns males into slaves. Dont marry, dont fall in the trap.

3) Fatherhood is needed.

Yohami said...

Jack, men do all of that and women are not very good at any of that. But you say if monogamy ceases to exist, men wont go to work?

I dont think monogamy can cease to exist, its deeply wired. Women want to catch a man and men want to catch a woman. And both want parenthood. The current female hysteria can be stopped by real men TM. Right now feminism has no equivalent in the men genre. There needs to be an alpha response. Beta response has been to either complaint or comply (betas want to please women)

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