I suppose it's inevitable, but one of the things that I find irritating is the way that men who learn about Game in general, and the socio-sexual hierarchy in particular, immediately going about attempting to rationalize a way that they can assign the highest perceived value to themselves. First everyone's an alpha. Then everyone's a sigma. I have no doubt if some new Game blogger concocted a brilliant new system in which Oompa Loompa was the top category, we'd be seeing all sorts of men fall all over themselves to describe themselves as Oompa Loompas.
Now, this doesn't bother me because I'm determined to put myself forward as a special snowflake and nobody else gets to be a sigma. Sigma, as I've pointed out before, is a less dominant and lower form of ALPHA. So, I'm doing precisely the opposite of what the Oompa Loompas are doing. The reason it bothers me is because it is self-sabotaging behavior every bit as counterproductive as going out and asking your girlfriend's mother how you should treat your girlfriend.
If you're in the position of S, an introvert who hates social interactions and wants to know how to approach women, thinking yourself a sigma is arguably the very worst thing you can do because it allows you to pretend that your failed strategy is the correct one. The sigma can afford to stay in and blow off the world because the hot girl will show up at his door, unannounced and uninvited. You can't and therefore because that's not your socio-sexual rank, you need to comport yourself differently and adopt different tactics.
Men who are socially or sexually dominant, (or better yet, both), can regularly get away with things that deltas can't ever imagine doing. For example, when one of my best friends made junior partner at his law firm, the firm threw him a cocktail party to celebrate. My band was playing downtown later that night and I didn't want to cart around a change of clothes, so I showed up in the ripped jeans and t-shirt I was planning on wearing on stage. In addition to being the only man there not in a suit and tie, I was sporting the only mohawk. My friend introduced me to everyone, most of whom were perfectly pleasant, but when the attractive secretary half-rolled her eyes at my appearance, I took the opportunity to tell her, as we were shaking hands, that I wasn't wearing any underwear.
I said it loud enough for everyone in the vicinity to hear it too. Everyone except her howled with laughter, including my friend's father, who was a top executive at one of Minnesota's Fortune 500 companies. Those who understand game won't be surprised to hear that the next time I showed up at the law firm a few weeks later, still very much underdressed, she was as deferential as if I was a corporate executive wearing an expensive Italian suit. She got the message from their reaction: the normal rules don't apply to this guy.
Does this mean you should start going commando, dressing inappropriately, and ignoring the rules of social etiquette? Not at all. What worked well at one particular time for one specific individual in a certain group of people probably won't work if any of those variables are different. What it means is that you have to know yourself and know how you are comfortable behaving before you can start to stretch yourself and expand your behavioral patterns.
Game is very effective. But you can't expect to use it and successfully imitate the behavioral patterns of higher ranking men if you place most of your effort into rationally justify your existing ones. Delta is not failure. Even omega is not failure. They are starting points.
61 comments:
Agreed. But I thought it was even funnier that all the women thought they were married to Alphas. Sounds like we have all been gamed LOL.
I highly suggest no one else use his line, it can seriously backfire if you are not the right person at the right place at the right time (yikes I have seen that). I know Vox said that but I want to second it as a women.
Had some tweaker looking dude, who was being reacted to by everyone as a social undesireable, tried that it would not have gone well.
Carlotta
We have a number of self-reporting Gammas and Omegas here. Should we doubt them as much as we doubt self-reporting Alphas and Sigmas? Or, like the 'statement against interest' exception to hearsay in the rules of evidence, are we to accept them because no one would make such a statement ("I'm a Gamma.") unless it was true. If so, is that not a sign of failure?
Omega Lawyer
I like this. Know what you are, and use it. You are not a loser to not be the natural. We all do this in business and sports. I play indoor soccer. I hadn't played in years. I got on a middle league team. I was the worst on the team. I played the least when we were down, by my choice, and stayed in longer when we were up. I am now middle of the pack on the team. Guess what, I play half the game now. I work in IT. I just understand how things work. I am a top dog when it comes to finding solutions. My coworkers have to work to understand what comes naturally to me. The normal solution for them is to invite me to anything that might need on the spot engineering. I am less introverted than Vox, but am still INTJ. I also call myself a sigma based mostly on the fact there hasn't been a woman that I wanted to approach that has turned me away. As an introvert though, I don't tend to be a magnet, so I do have to make an approach. Knowing what you are means you know what you need to succeed. I have approached plenty of women, only to pass the torch to my buddy who was farther down the chain in sex rank. I often throw in an awkwardly uncomfortable comment to make my mark. Usually if the night is early, it will be the joke of the night by the time the night is over.
Is claiming to be a self aware Beta OK? That's how I usually describe myself.
Could be something like selection bias. Folks drawn to this site and drawn to talking about Sigma may be more likely to post about it. Unknown (to me) is the number of guys who read and say, "That ain't me" and don't post.
Vox-What if a man is a Stealth Oompa Loompa?
Then you are, indeed, SOL.
I aspire to Omega. They typically have access to the best comics and explosives. Right now, that's my mission.
LOL
Actually, what I find interesting is how few commenters identify themselves as Beta (Vox's scale). That's by far the most under-reported category here. Seeing as Beta is not a bad place to occupy, I wonder if there is just a natural frustration at playing 2nd fiddle. Seems like men fantasize about leaping from nowhere to the front of the pack.
On the other hand, I liked how Keoni Galt (Hawaiian Libertarian) put it to his detractors: "I am not an Alpha. I am a patriarch." Any married man with children who leads his pack with determination and firm love deserves this classification.
Is claiming to be a self aware Beta OK? That's how I usually describe myself.
Anything is okay. The point is that it is self-deluded to call yourself an alpha or a sigma if you're not in the top 5% sexually and/or socially. And self-delusion is the epitome of anti-Game.
Based on your description of alphas and betas, I wouldn't expect them to show up here. They have no need; they are happy, healthy, and successful with women. Even deltas would be rare here; they are successful ENOUGH to focus on the rest of life. It is the gammas and omegas who have a burning need to fix what is wrong with themselves and learn to connect socially.
One thing that should be kept in mind is that most socio/sexual rankings are situationally fluid. An alpha in one setting may only be a beta in another, whereas a delta/gamma may have some area of expertise that lets him be an alpha/beta for a day given the right conditions.
The rankings that I would say are the most static are:
- The natural alpha - nothing gets this guy down, ever.
- The sigma, because he does not rely on social setting in the first place - he just doesn't care.
- The natural omega, because there is just no social setting so advantageous that this guy cannot fuck up.
Everything else is more or less fluid, although everyone has a natural state to which they will tend to revert given enough time (i.e., enough time for those around them to realize their true nature and begin to treat them accordingly).
Guys that have wives in the 80-90th percentile of attractiveness (in the US that means fairly average to slightly above average features and the killer, close to ideal weight for their height) probably fit Vox's version of the beta classification. That probably describes most of my close social circle. All of them, including myself, prefer the designation patriarch, but that's more a marketing thing.
I wonder if this confusion arises because sigmas stand outside of the traditional ladder. We have the omega/gamma/delta/beta/alpha progression, but sigma stands as if sprung from the head of Zeus, fully formed and armed. There's no ladder leading up to it, leaving a lot of us who exhibit traits similar to sigma (but who haven't attained anywhere near sigma) unsure of where we stand.
For the record, I'm an INTJ computer programmer with a strong contempt for others and a well-hidden love of casual violence. I am not a sigma; my sense of self regard sucks.
What is casual violence?
I'm not so sure.
The delta has wins and losses and sometimes can act like a gamma or whatever, and occasionally acts alpha, but all the other classifications are fairly solid: little "b" betas always find success and close leadership, alphas always lead, sigmas always can lead if they can be bothered to care, gammas always pedestalize, omegas always lose.
The fluidity is in delta and, as far as I can tell, in delta alone. That doesn't mean you can't change classification, but, without the intention of changing things:
Aragorn will always be alpha
Boromir will always be beta
Samwise will always be delta
Grima will always be gamma
Frodo will always be omega
I still can't figure out where I fit. I don't care much what others think much of the time. I do fine in social situations when needed, but that is not my preferred location. I am sometimes greatly comfortable schmoozing people, order times not so much.
I am not the most attractive one, but my father and grandfather were both womanizers in their time and I look a lot like them (and share many characteristics) so that complicates things.
I certainly don't share the goal of many in game. I just want to learn what I can (as always) to do better in life, including my marriage of 24 years.
My wife felt I was a sigma based on reading Vox's list, but I certainly don't fully fit that category either.
This still leaves me feeling a 2-dimensional categorization is not sufficient.
"What it means is that you have to know yourself and know how you are comfortable behaving before you can start to stretch yourself and expand your behavioral patterns."
Best advice ever.
And I figured you had to have at least been in a band.
Ima gonna state here and now that at least 95% of all Sig's are either current or ex bartenders, badasses who physically dominate their fields (seals/security/bouncers/mma fighter etc), celebrities, musicians...or a tattoo or some other form of artist.
Just think about the common bonds and behaviors in those who performed in the above named arenas. We all walk on water baby...or did.
Forgot to include that it's easy to see the burnout on peeps correlation from these groups.
I don't understand how this is difficult. There are only two variables.
Sexual rank: What is your N? (It doesn't matter what it could be.)
Social rank: How many people are you comfortable leading (call this M)? What is the social rank of the people who follow your lead? (If you ordered them to do something, would they do it?)
Now apply these to a normal distribution (a bell curve).
Sexual rank: Is your N in the top 20% (ALPHA/Alpha/Sigma), the lower 20% (BETA/Gamma/Omega), or in the middle (BETA/Beta/Delta)?
Social rank: Is your M in the top 20% (Alpha/Sigma), the lower 20% (Gamma/Omega), or in the middle (Beta/Delta)?
I assume the pattern is obvious at this point. Man, the things I do for you guys.
"And self-delusion is the epitome of anti-Game."
I am ankle-biting, I know, but Roissy claims that self-delusion (overconfidence) is the heart of game.
But, yeah, this kind of self-delusion is deliberate and conscious.
Sounds like a lot of confusion and consternation about ranks. Hey, we could create a government agency to pass out badges based on standardized personal attractiveness tests using multiple choice questions. That way, all the many wannabes could cram for the test and have the satisfaction and comfort of earning their desired credentials, and the few "others" could have the satisfaction of getting well and truly laid.
Great post Vox!
Being able to see where you are is the first step to start moving toward where you want to be. I started this journey with Game as a floormat churchianity married delta. I am regually pulling the ALPHA move today, but realistically see myself someplace in the beta sector.
It's a bit like the difference between the sociopath and the neurotic ; )
Delta is definitely the most fluid. With betas, it's a touch odd, because the ones I've known occasionally end up with relatively unattractive women vis-a-vis what they normally pull. They seem to be able to trade-down, but never trade over-and-beyond a certain socio-psychological ceiling.
What brought me to this site about Game was the blog on female solipsism. The wife and two teenage daughters are, or were, driving me absolutely crazy and very close to the door this summer. They'll never know. So I thank you Vox, or whoever else is involved with this as it has helped solidify our relationship, and the respect of my daughters.
Have not really thought about my profile, but I believe it could change.
Let's see, my wife asked me to dance at the Freshman orientation dance at college back in 1979 within 10 minutes of me walking in an hour late. In high school I asked a girl from my school to the prom (it turned out she dumped a friend of mine, didn't know) and was asked by 2 girls from other schools to take them to theirs, one of which was my current girlfriend at the time. 3 different tuxes paid for out of my wallet - should have made them all wear the same dress.
Okay boyfriend in college, have been a faithful husband since our engagement in '83.
A good example of me now at 50 is Easter Sunday. Nine couples from our church and their kids went to someone's house. I went into the TV room and turned on the Master's so I could check up every so often. Chatted on the deck with a few of the women, their daughters came by, and they were asking me about cooking techniques as I have a rep within the church as a good chef (self taught). Had the meal, sat alone with my wife at a small table on the deck by the pool and everyone kept telling us to join them. wife finally said "We are happy, we're talking about things!" It was great.
My ventures to the TV to be alone every 30 minutes for a bit to watch the golf would last minutes. As people walked by they would always stop in. Within 3 to 5 minutes there'd be 4 to 8 people asking me about golf, rules, and whatnot. So I'd leave, go out to the deck and look in the window to go back when it cleared out. If I go stand alone, it is not for long. If I go to any group, it is too easy to pick up the conversation and roll with it and change the topic if stupid.
I'm an INFJ, it made sense. Happy in life.
Cheers!
Gandalf will always be Lambda. :-)
How do you determine those values? That is what makes it far from simple. The number of people you lead doesn't determine how many you could lead. I don't lead anyone now, but I often become a source for information where I am and tend to take charge of things (normally successfully) when work and such is getting done.
I don't want a people management role though, so what exactly am I? I can lead but feel no pull to lead. I just know I will tend to do so, all things being equal.
My sex partner count is low, since I intentionally only focused on my wife. How are you going to judge that for someone who is not seeking another notch on his belt, now or in the past? I don't try to flirt, but do find myself close at times in certain situations. The lack of inclination can certainly affect the level.
And even if the 2-dimensional layer is right (which I dispute), what is the proper goal? How do you know when you reach the goal.
You attempt to trivialize something far too complicated. The principles may be simple, but the application is not.
I am an INTJ if it matters, though I score almost down the middle on the I/E scale. I can turn on the charm at times, but definitely prefer to be alone.
What happened to our photos BTW?
Proactive shadenfraude
That's schadenfreude, and for Pete's sake, would you Anons pick a name?
Anyway, I'm picturing something relaxed, informal, sort of "come as you are" violence.
Vox I don't wear underwear either am I a Sigma? PLEASESAYYES!
Roissy is saying self delusion with regards to your confidence, allowing you to carry yourself in a completely different manner, forcing others to see you in a different light, whether you actually have the goods or not.
What Vox is talking about is imagining you're a Sigma because you don't want to admit to yourself you're an Omega, simply because you also hate social interaction.
Vox is perfectly capable of being in a social environment, meeting new people, forging relationships, business or otherwise, whereas an Omega is not. At all.
What if you're a Rho?
Have to agree wth rycamor. Kid's doing great, the wife marveling at how they listen to me. I don't seek out other women. She always defers to me on any issue the kid's ask about. I'm happy. She's happy. The kid's are happy. Win-Win.
Great post. Only you could have pulled that stunt.
"Think things, not words"- O.W. Holmes
Being pidgeon-holed as a delta/gamma is far more stinging in writing than it is in real life. Let me illustrate this.
When I was in high school, in our tiny town, all of my friends were far more socially/sexually dominant than myself. My lack of traction with girls and third-wheel status on dates was the butt of many jokes. I scraped up a piece of ass here and there back then, but nothing like them. Out that group was one sigma(seriously, hottest high school cheerleaders blowing him while he played "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" on Nintendo and all), a couple of arguably betas, a delata, and my gamma self.
Of course, they nearly all ended up saddled with kids early on in life, failed relationships, and the occasional court date. they were all smart enough to have been able to gotten out and get a taste of life outside our insular part of the world. We had all talked about it, but strangely enough only two of ever did it.
I ended up getting to spread my wings and screw way more and way better looking girls than I could have ever hope to have. Now when I go home, I get to regale them with tales of conquests that about a decade ago would have never been possible.
So really, in "real life", was being gamma-cum-delta so bad? Who really had the last laugh in the fullness of time?
Always remember success is the best form of revenge.
Not true at all. It is very simple. You've self-identified as a delta. (Unless your wife is annoying to you - then you are a gamma).
That was easy.
So...Vox in a nightclub.
"for Pete's sake, would you Anons pick a name?"
What's the point in posting as anonymous and then picking a name at some net ghosts request? I'm sure your request will appeal to some delta's and omega's though...
and beta's too.
This is going to be a whopper of a long post, so apologies in advance, folks. So long, in fact, that I’ve decided to split it into two.
Part 1:
I've been reading your blog for a while now and also those of others who expound on game. Thank heavens for this discovery as I have instinctively, immediately, and wholeheartedly accepted the tenets and realities of game and do not challenge its precepts in the slightest. The reason I’d felt compelled to comment in this instance is because this is perhaps the most important message and blog post I have ever seen in relation to the topic of game and its application. Life in general, really. It carries a vital message to all, IMHO. May the lord continue to bless you, Vox. I seriously mean that. First, I’d like to start by making a general proposition.
From what I have observed, the key determinant of success in applying game, beyond an attitudinal change, is pretty consistently high level of intelligence, especially social, and conversational/verbal abilities. All of which greatly hinge on early socialization, family dynamics, and inherent intellectual potential and overall character, especially one’s ability to be intellectually honest with themselves. First, some background.
I'm an Omega. Delta, at best. I've held down a full-time job for years, built a successful career which is on an upward trajectory at present and have supported myself, and my folks to a large degree, since graduating from university (hence the possible bump to Delta from Omega, as it is my understanding that Omegas are moochers and do not support themselves well. Never been my problem.) My father was obscenely abused by his step-family for the first 31 years of his life, so he’s very passive. My mom’s dominant as all hell, but also very insecure and hysterical and also not that socially bright. Add to that my father’s difficulty in securing employment/financial resources after immigrating to Canada, and you get the picture. Swift capitulation from him and pants-wearing from her as soon as the marriage began, only being exacerbated after the move. Two kids resulted from this union, my brother and I, whom she raised as her two little eunuchs. Made sure we were fat as all hell from the time we were toddlers and very poorly socialized. Hardly any exposure to anyone outside of our immediate family, except for school and piano lessons. Seen the show Bubble Wrap Kids (a Canadian reference, if I’m not mistaken)? Well, multiply that by a thousand and you’ve got a starting point for my family dynamic.
Throughout my school years, I wasn’t much of anything socially, but due to some natural charm and prodigious musical abilities, always had acquaintances and occasional friends and even some possible romantic interest. I say possible because I never really considered myself a sexual option for anyone given my morbid obesity, so heck if I know what was going on there. In hindsight, definite vibes, though.
Part 2
My brother, on the other hand is an odd and tragic duck. In my view, a true Sigma if there ever was one. Total math and comp sci geek, he has had women practically throwing themselves at him since he was 16 and has always, always, pushed them away. Literally, on the verge of getting some, and simply walking away type of thing. Now, he’s 39 and still a V. He now obviously regrets his many asinine choices. Also, he’s recognized that he is probably mentally ill and has been seeking therapy, as I have now started to. Unfortunately for me, he was my only role model growing up, so I tumbled along with him down the incel rabbit hole.
Yup, so here I sit, 34 next month and still a V myself. Never a date, never a kiss, never anything in that realm. Asked out a girl once when I was 19, and she politely declined and was sort of surprised and bemused by the request. I’ve begun making some major changes in my life. First, I’ve lost the weight (318 to 185 and have started bulking up). Second, I’ve joined Toastmasters, getting up to speak, and am making a much greater effort to get myself social exposure through work and outside it as well. Baby steps, though, for now. Third, I’ve developed some decent hobbies and interest that I greatly enjoy (target shooting – not to worry, no omega revenge fantasies in my brain, rest assured, and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) in addition to music. So, things are indeed looking up.
So, say I were to convince myself, though some herculean mental gymnastics that I’m, say, a beta, or even an alpha, and I go out there thinking like that. That would be a sure-fire ticket to embarrassment, social ostracism, and most likely a nervous breakdown. More often than not, I would probably not even be aware of what ‘s going on around me in a social setting to begin with, much less figure out how to apply game to the situation. That comment Vox made to the secretary in his post. If I had sat there for a million years, it would never have occurred me to say something so clever. Vox, however, is who he is, and he knows it. Which brings me to my ultimate point.
Bottom line is, we all should strive as much as possible to keep it real with ourselves, folks. Some of us were handed a pretty messed up hand in life. Can things change? Absolutely and an assiduous study and application of game can go a long way towards doing that. However, an initial self assessment and some realistic goals are needed if one is to avert something potentially catastrophic. It’s simple self-preservation as far as I’m concerned.
For me, the learning curve required to apply game will most likely be quite high, as I am quite institutionalized (like Red in Shawshank) by my omegadom circumstances and status over many years and will require a lot of consistent effort, which I am ready to expend. People with a more normal background story and some inherent natural ability will fare better, undoubtedly.
Keeping it real with myself, though, it’s very likely I’ll not experience sex or love in this lifetime. I’m hopeful, but realistic at the same time. Something that all those, no matter their rank, owe themselves for their mental wellbeing. Once again, Vox, outstanding work.
For Pete's sake, would you learn how to use an apostrophe?
Snarkiness aside, the reason for forgoing the Anonymous handle is that it's too awkward to keep track of which Anonymous said what.
I forgot to add the gamma's too. The non hating ones anyway.
Hey Aeoli, that's a misuse of the "normal" distribution concept. Gimme 5 Hail Marys and a restatement of the FTC in your own words.
Aeoli,
Ah right, I wish I had the same eye for details that you do.
R. Bradley Andrews,
Maybe it'll be easier if, instead of identifying yourself as ALPHA/Sigma, you think of it as imitating the traits of an ALPHA. Here's an illustration:
All ALPHAs have inner game.
ALPHAs are defined by high-N.
Some men have inner game, but low N.
Not all men with inner game are ALPHAs.
You may want to have inner game without raising your N, so you would imitate the ALPHAs' attitude, without necessarily identifying as one.
This is arguably the wiser approach anyway, as it requires a reality-based self-assessment.
Stickwick, just treat them as if they were exactly the same person, on every single thread.
It is what they want, so just give 'em what they want.
I would not say I am an alpha or definitely a sigma, though I definitely have some of the traits of them, whatever scorn that brings here. I would not want to fully fit in either category even if I could work toward such, though sigma would be much preferable to alpha.
I must be a gamma then since my wife does annoy me at times! Though I would question even the strongest alpha who said their wi never annoyed them.
That's actually a hilarious solution. Every Anonymous comes off sounding like a complete loon, regardless of what they write.
That's funny.
anothermouse is amused
That Delta and Omega are not failures, but starting points begs the question: What is the universal starting point? Does every start at Delta or Omega or Beta and change according to personality and environment?
I have an Alpha oldest son. Was recruted to play college FB. He's quite talented and large. Talked him out of it. He pulls a 4.0 in studying chemical eng. Full ride. He is home. Wants his LTR To come over. Me and the Mom go to bed. At what point does a Christian quit monitering their sons? The LTR of my first Son is an all American Cheerleader.
We all start out as weirdgins and work our way up. Some do it quicker than others. And some never learn.
eftdot, Godspeed...sounds like you're on a good trajectory.
I don't know if you've touched on this before, but what steps do you recommend for smarter men who are into more intellectual topics to increase their ability to talk to people at different levels of conversation?
I liked how Keoni Galt (Hawaiian Libertarian) put it to his detractors: "I am not an Alpha. I am a patriarch." Any married man with children who leads his pack with determination and firm love deserves this classification.
That is great. I'm getting tired and a little sad seeing Christian men become overly obsessed with the "status" hierarchy. Christianity is a Third Way, and Christians should aim to be outside the whole thing. "Patriarch" it is.
Have to agree wth rycamor. Kid's doing great, the wife marveling at how they listen to me. I don't seek out other women. She always defers to me on any issue the kid's ask about. I'm happy. She's happy. The kid's are happy. Win-Win.
Yes, fantastic, me too.
Develop an interest in spectator sports—preferably live. Do not fake it, or you will be called out. If you can foster an interest in baseball and talk intelligently about it, you've got a near instant topic of conversation from March to the early November. Here's why baseball is my pick: it is a head game that is friendly to statistical analysis. There are arcane rules. The season has lots of games and lots of teams, which translates to plenty of opportunity to see it live.
Because it is a socio-sexual heirarchy, the starting point is puberty. It isn't like kids didn't jockey for social position before that, but it was idiosyncratic and fluid. Best friends/worst enemies - true games, no stakes.
Basically, it starts when boys start asking girls to dances. And the stratification begins then - mostly naturally. Alphas and Betas tend to come from the JV starting athletes (glamor positions). Deltas play sports and are involved in other conventional things. Gammas are academics with a modicum of social charm (fair to poor) when necessary or when around women of a certain rank (mid to low). Omegas are potentially decent folk with outstanding flaws: horrible acne, "weird" religious observances, D-track students who can't pass shop - whatever.
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