Sunday, April 17, 2016

The myth of the IDF's lionesses

Israeli military historian Martin van Creveld looks at the reality of the IDF's female combat soldiers:
Women’s inferiority to men in respect to physical strength, aerobic capacity, endurance and, above all, robustness, is obvious to all. The price is paid by their male colleagues; when a female trainee in a mixed unit breaks down, as often happens, guess who is going to carry her and/or her weapons and pack? But the price women have paid for serving in “combat” units has been much higher. Many of the documents in question are classified so as to avoid angering Israeli feminists, an aggressive and often obnoxious lot, by presenting them with the facts. Some, however, have been published by a former student of mine, Colonel (ret.) Raz Sagi.

The picture that emerges is not pretty. Less than 3 percent of IDF “combat troops” are female. However, over the last few years they, or the lawyers acting in their name, have served 10-15 percent of the suits concerning compensation for injuries suffered while on “operational activity” (whatever that may mean). In proportion to their numbers, women sue three to five times more often than men. Sagi’s book bristles with interviews with young women who served as, or trained for, “combat” MOS and were seriously injured, sometimes for life. Such cases are brought before the courts almost every day.

Now let’s take a closer look at what “combat” actually entails. The largest group, 442 out of 1,593, serve in three mixed battalions named “Caracal,” “Leopard,” and “Lions of the Jordan” respectively. In each of these they form 60 percent of the total. What all three have in common is that they are permanently deployed along the borders with Egypt and Jordan. Those in turn have this in common that, over the last forty years, they have seen hardly a shot fired in anger. The remaining women are divided between “combat intelligence collection” (meaning that they look for all kinds of interesting things after the battle is over), border police (meaning that they stand guard against terrorists, as Hadar Cohen, who was mentioned on this blog a few weeks ago, did), civil defense, and artillery.
This does not bode well for the USA's new gender-neutralized military. But it certainly looks promising for those who might find themselves fighting it. If you haven't read van Creveld's Equality: The Impossible Quest, you really should consider doing so. It's also available in audiobook.


Sokrates said...

Isreal has a long experience with women in the army. We should better listen to what they have found out.


Jew613 said...

Its kind of an open secret that women in combat has been a disaster. The chiefs have desperately tried to keep the women out of combat knowing it won't end well. There is a strange situation in Israel where there is essentially no public or even political support for feminism but certain governmental and intellectual centers of power are dominated by feminists.

In Israel's war of independence there were mixed male-female units and they were a dirsaster, which is why they were disbanded after the war. Its only now that there are almost no people still alive from the war, and certainly none in positions of command at the IDF that there has been even this current nonsense of allowing women into combat roles.

Another major problem is some of the IDF's best soldiers and units are religiously observant. One of the conditions is they demand a full separation of the sexes. This has been an ongoing fight, with the leftists in a rage that Nachal Charedi refuses to use women even in a training or educational capacity. So the politicians want to appease the feminists, but the army wants a excellent unit of combat soldiers.

MichaelJMaier said...

Reading that sort of thing makes me want to assault any idiots that posit women in the military in ANY capacity is a good thing.

Yes, by all means! Let's put mens' very lives at risk so bimbos can play "G.I. Barbie"!

Putting women in the military is near treasonous.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

For European Nationalists who may be facing US occupation troops and their imported Afro-Muslim allies in the near future, this is a welcome development.

More, please!

Dark Herald said...

It's already a fucking disaster.

The Marine Corps study on women in the Infantry women ended up breaking most of the women in the study. I mean psychically broke them. As in career ending, damaged for the rest of their lives broke them.

The primary culprit was (*BIG surprise*) hip injuries.

And the guys doing the study knew it was completely pointless. The civilian leadership was not going to listen to them at all.

So far as Obama and Obamettes are concerned, the only thing the military is there for, is feminist vanity projects.

Took him a while to do it but after four secdefs in seven years, Obama finally found the man who was willing to wreck the military in the name of feminism.

Ashton B. Carter

I'm sure Dumb-Ash was disappointed as all hell when he found out he couldn't command women to be NFL linebackers or NHL Goalies.

Oh sure there are a few haters out there who are asking stupid questions like, how long can the average woman hump a mortar team load as well as a full pack? Or did you know that the average woman is only about as strong as a fourteen year old boy? Because Ashton B. Carter sure as fuck doesn't. He doesn't care to find out either and sure as fuck hates it when someone points it out to him.

All of this bullshit would be tolerable as a temporary hiccough, if indeed it was temporary.

But during my entire military career, I never once saw a bad policy reversed if it was popular with feminist congresswomen. (*And of course Congressmen who identify as Congresswomen.*)

R Devere said...

"....feminists, an aggressive and often obnoxious lot,..." Really?


Bob Loblaw said...

Yeah, women can shoot, but they don't have the strength to carry (worst case) a 120 pound pack plus body armor and weapon up the side of a mountain in thin air. Outside of a tiny number of freaks, you have to be young and male to do that.

There were women who distinguished themselves in Iraq doing convoy duty, most famously Leigh Ann Hester, but that's mounted.

And when you add a few women to any group of men you break any social cohesion they might have had.

Bob Loblaw said...

The politics on this has been amazing. The marines stuck their necks out by pointing out what a bad idea this was. They did combat studies. They documented everything.

And they were told "that's the wrong answer". Holy shit.

Dark Herald said...

The average woman is only about as strong as an average 14 year old.

S1AL said...

"Yeah, women can shoot, but they don't have the strength to carry (worst case) a 120 pound pack plus body armor and weapon up the side of a mountain in thin air. Outside of a tiny number of freaks, you have to be young and male to do that."

According to most of the studies I've seen, you also need to be in at least the top 10% of born physical capabilities to do it for more than a couple years. Those extremes are insane, and I don't think any woman had actually pulled something like that off.

Dark Herald said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dark Herald said...


I said this one a while back.

If a guy gets hit in combat the rest of his squad is pinned down. You don't have a choice. You stand fast and let the guy bleed out. Yeah it sucks. It sucks worse than anything you can imagine. But you can do that for another guy.

Now imagine it's a nineteen year old girl. Screaming, bleeding out, crying for her mom and cursing you all for being cowards.

Bob Loblaw said...

Yep. And imagine the scene if you're all captured.

justaguy said...

As long as the citizens in the US do not feel threatened, they feel they can relax on national security. This was evident in the election of Clinton by a plurality (thanks Perot). With the Cold War over, national security concerns were lessened and allowed a draft dodging, hippie-light, pot-smoking Boomer to be acceptable to the electorate.

Anonymous said...

I don't see anything wrong with Israeli feminists who want to fight for their country by taking up arms. Any commentary that combat roles should be open to all women should be taken for what it is, a sincere request for the speaker to be put into combat. What they shouldn't be allowed to do, however, is force their views on others. The clear choice for the military should be to create special units for these unusually fervent and fierce warriors, for the protection of the common soldier who, let's face it, just aren't up to the same standard. They'll just get in the way. ;)

@ Eric
"And they were told "that's the wrong answer". Holy shit. "

They make the mistake that this is about rational thought, defending America, and working within the realm of the possible. Feminists are interested in none of these things.

tz said...

Ahab wouldn't have been as bad if not for Jezebel. Shades of Hillary and Heidi.

Actually I'm counting on it. "Hi, I'm Debbie from the Army here to take your guns..." later "Hi, I'm cathy, I'm looking for Debbie...". Maybe the UN should switch to pink berets and helmets. Or rainbow.

Note that most of the women are quite well armed (and not dangerous except in the momma grizzly sense). Lind needs to do a western themed "Victoria".

Adds new meaning from womb to tomb.

tz said...

To update ZZ Top with the evolutionary imperative - "She has eggs! and she knows how to use them".

Ron said...


HAHAHAHA. You do not seem to quite get it.

Women are not obligated to ANYTHING. EVER. Because there is ALWAYS some thirsty pussy hound out there that absolutely, positively WILL give her a pass if he thinks there is even the slightest .0000003% chance that he might get laid out of it.

Do you get it? Do you understand? A woman can set fire to an orphanage after having raped all the kids with a jackhammer and some goddamn human piece of shit will, without question, start rationalizing everything she did.

This is the law. Burn it into your brain.

little dynamo said...

Very informative link. In recent years I've heard other poor reports out of Israel concerning the corruption of family law, the influence of feminism, so forth. Obviously, the spirit of Jezebel is still powerful there. Moved her throne tho.

The State of Israel wants to partake of Babylon's modernisms, but God doesn't want their modernity, but their faithfulness.

Good intel on Israel isn't easy to get in America, time allowing I'll look to read more from this author.

liberranter said...

Now imagine it's a nineteen year old girl. Screaming, bleeding out, crying for her mom and cursing you all for being cowards.

Without a millisecond's thought I'd let the little bitch bleed out - and FUCK anybody who has/had a problem with that.

Hey, sweetie, you wanted to be "one of the boys." Now you get to meet your maker just like one of them. Just think of all the glory and praise that all the armchair warriors back home will heap upon your memory for being the first she-grunt to "take one for the team."

Right? RIGHT??

liberranter said...

"....feminists, an aggressive and often obnoxious lot,..." Really?


I've always wondered if Jewish feminists in Israel are as vile as those here in the USA. If so, God help Israel. They really should consider deporting their feminists to one of their Arab neighbor countries and see how long they'll last.

Jew613 said...

The Jewish feminists are as vile and evil as any in america. The difference is most rabbis will still tell them to stfu.

Tragically there are rabbis who try to pander to the feminists like Shlomo Riskin, or the worst offender Avi Weiss. But the feminist infiltration of orthodox judaism is a major problem. There are even women who now claim to be orthodox and rabbis.

Thank G-d, so far the actual rabbis have been fighting back, with Avi Weiss y'ms being threatened with cherem, excommunication, if he continues his heresy. So far since the threat Weiss has backed down.

In the face of actual resistance the feminists have either backed down or abandoned Torah openly. I prefer the latter as it makes it clear they are modern hellenists.

There is even a specific feminist heresy in Judaism calling itself Open Orthodoxy, whose main purpose is to allow women into positions of leadership against the law and tradition.

Shimshon said...

I know someone who was in Shlomo Riskin's rabbinical program. This man was having marriage problems and found his way to a friend doing Red Pill life coaching. The coaching was going well, but his wife got suspicious, found out, and nearly destroyed her husband AND my friend in the process. Riskin openly sided with her, without bothering to look into the matter even the tiniest amount, and also personally threatened to destroy his life. He is absolutely disgusting.

Gunnarvoncowtown von Cowtown said...

@Cataline Sergius
"Now imagine it's a nineteen year old girl. Screaming, bleeding out, crying for her mom and cursing you all for being cowards."

Right? Lt. Col. Dave Grossman discussed this in "On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society". Apparently, Israel tried out women in combat during either the 1948 Arab-Israel War or the Sinai Campaign (1956), and the results were exactly what you'd expect. Men are naturally protective of women, so there were increased male casualties and injuries from all the risk-taking in response to what you'd written above. The IDF 86'ed women in combat after that, but enough time has passed that the lessons learned have been shoved down the memory hole.

Russ said...

When this comes up, I tell people that if they believe that women should be in combat arms then they should start encouraging their daughters, granddaughters, sisters, and nieces to join. If they're young women, I encourage them to join themselves.

CarpeOro said...

The reason why I can't read most modern military sci-fi. Even writers that are okay, still write using the crutch of women=men in combat so they can have "the relationship aspect" while totally ignoring all of history's evidence of what happens in any endeavor when men and women are mixed, let alone the impact in combat. Hat tip to Col. Kratman for writing it correctly, but it nearly stops with him. I guess too much of the Red pill has infected my system to want to try to suspend my disbelief regarding it. That or even my slight exposure decades ago to women in the US military.

CarpeOro said...

Oh, and regarding the female four star admiral, John Paul Jones wept. Faux News had a fluff piece on her. Made me sick as someone who served.

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dc.sunsets said...

This reinforces my view about politics. Pluralistic political forms promote factions, and factions pursue narrow interests, including nakedly irrational interests like today's feminism.

What pluralistic political system today does not exhibit all the signs of schizophrenia? People now expend vast energy battling such irrationality, much like a schizophrenic might have a battle royal inside his own head, babbling and arguing and raging as the voices make conflicting demands on his real-world actions.

Collectively, mankind is completely insane. The funny part is, we're told this system is the pinnacle of human endeavor (liberalism.)

dc.sunsets said...

Imagine that 19-year-old girl screaming is also the girl with whom several of the unit's male members (ahem) have fraternized [sic].

And here I thought it was appalling enough to, while visiting my oldest son at his college dorm almost 14 years ago, see a girl on his floor walk from the shower to her room in a towel. I guess the military is where people will go for the Full College Experience.

Ingot9455 said...

When my mother was in the Israeli Army during the founding of the country, firearms were scarce. Because of that the men got the rifles and did the fighting while the women got Sten guns and grenades and guarded bases to free up the men as much as possible.

Necessity is the mother of rational invention.

(As a pointless aside, unlike Dr. Ruth Westheimer, my mother was nothing special with firearms but was the best with grenades in the unit, so the joke was that all the other women would give her their grenades if anything happened. )

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