Tuesday, December 20, 2011

Alpha Mail: gamma history

An Omega/Gamma asks about the wisdom of full disclosure:
[I]f you're a retiring Omega/Gamma (like me), should you admit your loser history to a girl? If not, what to do when the subject of former lovers comes up? Is "I was a late bloomer" a good excuse?
No, absolutely not. Plead the Fifth. No, absolutely not.

No ALPHA discloses even a quarter of his sexual history to women. Even if he talks about his previous girlfriend, or primary high school girlfriend, he will omit the girl from the night after he broke up with his previous girlfriend, the waitress from the Saturday after that, and the salesgirl he from the night before he met the woman du jour.

An Omega/Gamma without a sexual history should take the same approach. Total silence. If she brings up the topic, simply turn it around and ask her about her number. She'll either get distracted and provide potentially significant information or she'll clam up and change the subject. And if she pries, break out Roissy's magic phrase - it's complicated - and leave it at that.

Don't worry, she'll concoct an imaginary history for you that will exceed your most outrageous lies.


Anonymous said...

"Don't worry, she'll concoct an imaginary history for you that will exceed your most outrageous lies."

While at the same time feeling more comfortable to 'do stuff' with you as you have shown that you have the discretion to kiss and not tell the world that she is a slut.

Feminist Proposal said...

A Proposal for defining the Feminist vs Anti-Feminist Problem

Matthew Walker said...

When in doubt, don't give women a straight answer. Also usually when not in doubt.

This actually addresses the what-to-do-first question: one of the first steps is learning to feel that you don't ever owe them a straight answer, an honest answer, an explanation, an apology, or any other form of deference.

For anybody having trouble with that, ask yourself whether they ever explain or apologize to you. They don't. So, fair's fair.

But it's also important to pick a manner *you* can pull off convincingly. Just be certain there's no trace of hostility or resentment in it. Treat her questions as charming nonsense.

STX said...

Good Lord. You nailed it Vox. Even the sweetest women are delusional. GOD'S curse on Adam and Eve was much deeper than most know..

LP2021 Bank of LP Work in Progress said...

Nein, nein and nein.

Say nothing and let the hamster wheel GO INTO OVERDRIVE! It will be awesome.

Even readers don't want to know about any omega, delta, etc., stories detailing failures with women. We do not need to know and its not our business.

Painting a pretty picture is mildly acceptable but its best to not address it all. A negative picture of bitterness and repetitious stories are boring and tedious to listen to or read.

It kinda says, "stuck on stupid" to some women.

Some women,understand all humans are fallen. I have compassion for those who suffer a bump or two in life. But there is no swan songs about former GF's that most women want to know about.

If a woman like me takes pity on you, feels sorry for you, I'll have a difficult time respecting you in general.

The only failures I'm interesting in hearing about is, "gee that video is nearly impossible, or that test was really time consuming or I barely got the car to start but I fixed it."

See, those are not related to relationships.

LP2021 Bank of LP Work in Progress said...

Ah edit! ***"video game"***

STX said...

I'm old enough to take them or leave them. But even the best don't seem to match up to the wisdom of the bull mastiff the wife and kids talked me in to. Interesting breed. Bred for silently hunting people at night. His wisdom, Finally realized if he would quit tearing shit up, he doesn't need the crate. I sleep better knowing the pick of the litter, 140 lb male is loose. I tell my friends. If someone breaks in, I want to be awaken by their screams. If women were logical, they would also realize what a great deal GOD gave them. That's why it is even hard to take the wife serious. I actually take more stock in the 18 yr old son's opinion. And starting to in the 14 yr olds. I love the wife and mother of my children, but don't look to her for logic.

Anonymous said...

My friends asked me the same question, and I tried to side-step it but they pressured me, and although I didn't admit anything, it was pretty obvious what the answer was.

"Why does that matter?", "Enough", "I don't like revealing details from my private life", these are the answers I gave. Ultimately, there was an awkward silence where they both stared at me, and I said "Can we please change the subject now?"

However, both of these friends have known me for two and a half years, so they could have likely already deduced my count from by behavior. If I could successfully mimic Alpha, Beta, or even Delta behavior when cold-approaching a girl, she might not conclude from my reluctance to give a straight answer that I was a loser.

A girl, a 6, once hit on me despite knowing my count. It helps to know that I'm 17, so it might not be as detrimental to a pick-up attempt as it would be to a 20-something guy (I don't know how it's in the USA, but most of my friends have had girlfriends by now, some have lost virginity). And the 'late bloomer' justification seems more legitimate, and there's even some truth there.

Of course, no matter what your count is, avoiding the question seems to be the best option given the whole game concept of never walking into her frame.

If it's not quite clear yet, I'm the guy quoted in the opening post. Perhaps using the term 'lover' in the question was misleading.

VD said...

"Why does that matter?", "Enough", "I don't like revealing details from my private life", these are the answers I gave.

Ultimately, there was an awkward silence where they both stared at me, and I said "Can we please change the subject now?"

As you've correctly ascertained, that's weak. And as you're learning, women are ruthless at attempting to dig out failure. But you can't be reluctant to give a straight answer, you have to absolutely refuse to give a straight answer. There is a world of difference between the two. Don't ever give a woman a straight answer; she doesn't want the truth, she wants the social proof.

Where you went wrong was by going with evasion. That's a feminine tactic. You should have gone right to amplify and exaggerate.

If, for example, you were to say something like this:

"I've never been with a woman. Never kissed one, never had one blow me, never plowed her sweet white thighs, never banged her until her breasts were bouncing like they were on springs."

The problem, of course, is somewhat chicken-or-the-egg. You probably can't convincingly say something like that until you improve your rank.

I would simply shrug and distract by saying "I'm like James Bond, I prefer mine shaven, not trimmed." They'll be off and defending their choice in personal grooming in a heartbeat.

Mike M. said...

Time for the classic answer to the question, "Are you a virgin?"

"Yes...in my left ear."

Mrs. Pilgrim said...

So, should guys who abstain because of their religious beliefs about fornication let people believe otherwise?

I'm not being hostile. I'm asking.

Monsignor Scott Rassbach said...

Time for the classic answer to the question, "Are you a virgin?"

"Aren't we all?" *wink*

VD said...

So, should guys who abstain because of their religious beliefs about fornication let people believe otherwise?

No. That would be both evasive and dishonest. But then, the man has to truly abstain. None of this, "well, I mean to abstain, but you're just too hot to resist".

Dealing with supposedly aggressive female interest is the shit test that is directed at the abstainer.

And besides, all the guilt that will inevitably be expressed afterwards will make her see you as a gamma at best. Weak and indecisive is not attractive to women.

Mrs. Pilgrim said...

I gotcha. The "strong and decisive" is the key thing, such that the history or lack thereof was his choice rather than a default out of weakness.

indyguy77@work said...

Now there's a minefield for a man.

Trying to abstain to not sin, but ascertaining that there's enough sexual chemistry such that you're not stuck with a damn cold fish.

All the while convincing her that you're really interested in the true long term while resisting the short term pleasure.

rycamor said...


Hard, but it can be done, and I'm proof. Honestly, the biggest problem for a man in that position is that you make such a big deal out of getting just the right combination that you reject too many good prospects.

Re-read VD's last few posts about how responsive a woman's personality is to a man's leading. And read Athol Kay's entire site, or get the book. The mistake that kept me single too long was to think of a woman's personality as static, ergo much equivocating about whether she's just quite the right one. I spent years being far too picky about personality, intelligence, even political leanings. Bah... if you are attracted to her, she's fun to hang around with, and she meets your standards for previous sexual experience (a line you'll have to draw for yourself), move forward. Chemistry becomes obvious, even if you don't go all the way. If, after a few dates, it feels like you're kissing your sister, move on.

Giraffe said...

So, should guys who abstain because of their religious beliefs about fornication let people believe otherwise?

Not to bring Tebow into everything, but he's a Christian alpha. A leader on his team. A lot of women probably hate him because they are sluts and know he would have nothing to do with them. But they'd want him if he'd take them.

Andrea Muhrrteyn said...


No interest from Alpha Game and readers to:

Feminist Proposal (December 20, 2011 3:04 AM)
A Proposal for defining the Feminist vs Anti-Feminist Problem

Daniel said...

Regarding divulging history:

If it is painful to you to do it, it is even more painful to others. The infliction of discomfort on others is not stimulating to them. Your catharsis is not endearing - it is repulsive.

You would, quite literally, be more attractive if you slapped her across the face and shoved her into a pile of garbage. I recommend you do that before ever thinking of admitting to things you are ashamed of, especially romantic failures.

Mrs. Pilgrim said...

No, honey, no interest. You talk too much and don't really say anything.

But thanks for trying to put yourself at the center of the feminist/realist debate.

Ian Ironwood said...

Actually, there are a number of clever responses you can use with this question. But some ground rules:

1. NEVER DIMINISH THE PENIS. It's always so freaking large that it has it's own zip code. Admitting to anything less is a masculine faux pas.

2. Never give a straight answer. Because everyone lies about sex anyway, or at least that's the assumption most people make.

So, to a group of dudes you can play it crude and funny ("Damn it! Is your sister bugging you about me again?"), playfully homophobic ("Why, are you hitting on me?"), or just be completely mysterious ("Under the terms of the settlement, I'm not allowed to discuss it without my attorney present.").

To a group of girls, it's part of their evaluation process, so your best bet is to turn it into an overt flirtation ("I'd act like a virgin . . . for the right girl", "I've taken a vow of celibacy until I've found a woman just too compelling to resist", or "A gentleman doesn't discuss that sort of thing in public . . . but I'd be open to discussing it with you in private . . .").

The problem is that most Omegas have almost zero skill at common social interactions, and therefore have a hard time pulling off this verbal sparring without practice.

But you don't admit shit. Except how massive your dick is. You can talk about that all night, be a total liar, and entertain everyone in the room if you do it right.

Andrea Muhrrteyn said...

Mrs Pilgrim (December 20, 2011 11:53 AM)

Thanks for response. Apologies you don't understand Radical Honoursty principles.

Not remotely interested in putting myself at the center of the insincere fake feminists and insincere fake realists pretend debate.

Simply High Probability Selling testing the waters; to determine whether there is anyone around serious about feminist/anti-feminist issue.

I am a member of a cult where we ain't got any feminists or anti-feminists; just men and women who tell each other the truth, enjoy honest fucking and honest open or closed relationships. Its called Radical Honesty. We ain't got any rapists, nor women who cry rape. Don't use your courts to resolve relationship communication problems, just honesty and personal responsibility. Put differently: fucking freedom; no need to lie to get laid!!

But if you enjoy lying about who you are; pretending to be someone other than you are; to get laid; all power to you!

Ian Ironwood said...

Everyone lies. It's human nature and unavoidable. You can lie to yourself that you're being honest, and lie to other people about being honest, but that doesn't mean you are honest.

When you take the lies out of human culture, it crumbles. You can sustain that kind of thing in a small autonomous community for a short period of time, but it is a utopic ideal -- which means that it's unsuited for use outside of a smaller group. Human beings can't stand not being able to lie, and you damn sure can't build a culture or a civilization without falsehood.

Andrea Muhrrteyn said...

@Ian Ironwood

I would agree with you that the majority of people, lie. I agree many people lie to themselves they are being honest. I also imagine working in marketing; you surround yourself with so many people who consider lying to be totally natural; that you assume everyone is like that. If you ain't heard about honesty in marketing; you may wish to take a look at: High Probability Selling, by Jacques Werth.

You can be honest: all it takes is courage to be disliked by people who prefer sycophancy and polite pretence. For those addicted to putting forth a fake image of who they are, to impress people, of course; its impossible; but for someone who has no attachment to fake image creation, it ain't that hard.

All there is to tell the truth about is: what you have done, what
you think (i.e. the thoughts whizzing through your brain, interpretations, perspectives, opinions, ideas), and what you feel (in Radical Honesty feelings are not thoughts but actual sensations: tight chest, itchy nipples, grinding teeth, twitching toe, so on).

When you take the lies out of lying western civilisation culture, it does crumble; that is true. Western civilisation is crumbling from the burden of its lies anyway: exponential growth of anything, whether population, fiat currency or debt is impossible in a finite ecological environment. A lie your civilisation has yet to confront.

It is possible you are correct honesty can only be sustained in a small autonomous community; however considering the peak of non-renewable natural resources and oil, the entire planet shall be heading to a dieoff where those who do live in small self-sustaining cultures shall have greater capacity for survival.

The foundation of industrial civilisation ain't lying (although that did help), but cheap energy and mineral resources (no amount of lying can fill the tank of your car though; or create steel). Since they have peaked planet earth is heading towards either agrarian (if we lucky) or hunter gatherer 'civilisation' paradigm (Scarcity: Humanity's Last Chapter; Chris Clugston).

Mrs. Pilgrim said...

And there goes the thread hijack. *yawn*

mmaier2112 said...

I'd agree that most people lie. But being almost completely truthful isn't all that hard.

You just have to prepare to be very much disliked for your honesty.

Except for EULAs. I don't read them so I guess I'm lying when I click on the box saying "I agree".

Andrea Muhrrteyn said...

"You just have to prepare to be very much disliked for your honesty."

It really gets interesting when you meet with, or know other people who also have the courage to be honest, and who appreciate honesty; because they value relationships based on reality, not PR deception.

Great for self confidence: cause you ain't under false illusions about fake friends. When you are continually honest, and get over anger and disagreements with friends who value honesty; your relationships are in an entire different dimension. And unbelievable great freedom. But it ain't for the timid!

JCclimber said...

Andrea, go take your blather somewhere else.

We. Don't. Care.

To the rest of you, please note that this question is from a 17 year old. And I think he is absolutely wrong to categorize himself as an omega at such a young age.

Dude, you can't even vote yet or any other adult thing. Realize that most of the bragging by your peers is based on a foundation of BS, with a subbasement of truth in there somewhere.

That said, if you can't pull off complete amplification, or outright refusal to answer the question, then you have to go another route.

Just say that people who saw you in the locker room said that no woman would ever be able to handle the size of your schlong, and since you didn't want to whore yourself out as a porn star, you were discouraged from even trying to score with women. So you thought you were a freak. But now that you're older, you realize they were just jealous and were busting your chops, and maybe there are some women out there, with patience and great flexibility, who can handle such a large endowment.

Then sigh. Sing a little bit of the song from U2 "but I still, haven't found, what I'm looking for..."

Immediately change the subject. And NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, say please may we change the subject. That's the weakest thing you said, I'm surprised no one has chastised you for that one yet.

JCclimber said...

By the way, field testing shows that the whole size thing is interesting. It has to come up naturally in the flow of conversation, and you have to show some embarrassment about it, and reluctance to even discuss the subject.

One of my early relationships, when I was still pretty inexperienced, we could achieve penetration because of the size incompatibility. A little more experience helped overcome that in future relationships.

But I found that even hinting at this potentially embarrassing situation, even with just females who were strictly friends, sent their hamsters into freakin' turbo overdrive with a jet backpack. One even reached down and tried to check my size!

What's really funny is that the size is only within the upper range of strictly average. So it's much more about the delivery, and it doesn't have to be about size or anything, it's more about your attitude.

It could be anything. You could admit like James Bond about the shaven vs trimmed. Or that you did the whole vow of celibacy for a year, just to see if you could do it and if it would help you focus on (sports, school, beating the stock market, whatever).

Get a far off look in your eye, and say something like "Hmmm. I learned a lot about myself and women in that year..." And change the subject. Tell them if they want more info, they'll have to ask you when you're drunk.

Markku said...

"That information is on a need-to-know basis"

VD said...

"That information is on a need-to-know basis"

Too nerdly and premeditated. Carries a distinct aroma of gamma.

LP2021 Bank of LP Work in Progress said...

I almost posted an unfortunate screed about a certain link listed here. I'm glad I didn't...It is Christmas after all.

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