Wednesday, July 8, 2015

Delta Perspective: Dating Part I

I’m posting early this week in hopes of helping some men get a date this weekend.

I’m going to give you the very technique that I and another Gamma friend of mine both discovered and used to not only date, but eventually get married. It helped me move from Gamma to Delta and him from a low Gamma to a high Gamma. I’ve never seen anything like it, though I must admit I haven’t looked at all of the men’s dating sites so maybe something like it exists. I think it is at least a little unique because so much of the advice is given by Alphas and while good it doesn’t really apply very well to a Gamma or even a struggling Delta when they are looking for a date on Saturday night.

To use the football analogy again if you are a quarterback struggling to make an NFL team, hearing advice from Joe Montana on how to win your 4th Super Bowl ring when you need footwork advice isn’t very helpful. This isn’t to say you can’t aspire to be Joe Montana or he doesn’t have a lot of good things to say, but you have to make the practice squad first before you can win that Super Bowl and maybe a backup veteran QB with an average career can help you make that first step.

I’m going to present the steps here and then detail how it works so you can start on it immediately if you like. Not only will you get to talk to and date women beyond friends you will also discover your actual rank by using the plan below. All of the quizzes to find your rank are baloney because people always overrate themselves in them and this is proof right from the market itself.

How to get a date this Saturday night, or at least very soon

  1. Sign up for a couple of dating websites like or whatever you like and fill out the profile honestly. Don’t get too hung up on this step as there’s no magic profile, the key is to honest about yourself and what you are looking for.
  2. Make an honest attempt to find average (AVERAGE IS FIVE!!!) women in your age range. I’ll detail average below, but if you’ve struggled with online dating in the past there’s a good chance the “average” girl you are hitting on is above average. Send these women messages.
  3. Wait for the responses, which you should receive within a few days or week.
  4. If you receive little to no response, lower your standards and send out more messages.
  5. Repeat the above and keep lowering your standards until you receive positive responses.
  6. Start talking to them and even if they have flaws go out on a date with them.
  7. Congratulations you are now dating and know your market value!

Step 1

A number of years ago a friend of mine called who had been through a painful divorce a few years earlier; he wanted to enter the market and knew I was engaged. He specifically asked me how he should write his profile, as though I was some magical wordsmith who could woo a lady with the clever wit of my bio. When I said that he should be honest in his profile I was amused when he responded, “I didn’t think of that. Honesty, that’s a good idea.” I just laughed and told him to be upfront about who he was, and what he wanted.

This is the first place where so many guys go wrong when they want to attract a woman. It’s not about particular behaviors, but who you are. To repeat: your difficulty with women isn’t that you don’t know the right thing to say at any given moment it’s the essence of your being which is the heart of the problem. The good news is you can change, even if the change is hard, but why wait for months or years to get a date? Unless you are an Omega, who you are now is actually attractive to some women even if you rank very low.

You can’t keep up a front anyways, or pretend to be something you are not as women aren’t stupid and will figure it out given enough time despite your best efforts. Don’t take a girl to a fine restaurant to impress her if you never go to them, you probably won’t even know how to order correctly and it will show. Don’t drink wine in front of her if you prefer beer. Don’t lie about your finances as she can see it in your clothes and vehicle. Don’t be something you are not. If your ranks line up properly, as in you rank a three and she ranks a three then it will work. Now if you don’t like whom you are when you are honest then that’s another subject, but we are dealing with who are right now, and I want you meeting and dating women now and not later. There’s no time like the present for dating.

Step 2

Average is 5. Repeat average is 5. Did you read that carefully? Average is 5. I have to drill this into your heads because the two mistakes I see men most commonly make in dating is 1) overrating themselves 2) going for women out of their league.

The mean height of 20-29 year olds is ~5’3” and they weigh ~157 pounds. Think about the fact that that is now average. When’s the last time you were interested in a 5’3” 160 pound woman? If you are constantly going after women with a better height to weight ratio you aren’t going after average, you are going after above average which means you have to be above average yourself to have a shot. Don’t like it? Too bad. That’s average. Think that’s too fat for you? Nobody cares about your opinion.  Weren’t people thinner in the past? Yes, but it doesn’t change what they are now. Are you telling me to date fat sluts? No, but be aware that if you want better than this YOU HAVE TO BE BETTER TOO.

Knowing this, when you look at the profile pictures of women on dating sites realize those “fat girls” which you have probably skipped in the past or want to skip now are average and this is where you start. This is 5, this is average, and this is the reality of the market now. You can either accept this reality, or put up a delusion bubble and keep doing what you were doing which isn’t working.

On the site find at least a dozen women, preferably two dozen or more, who are average in appearance, weight, and you are at least a little attracted to. It is better at this point to set your sites a little low than too high. When in doubt, aim a bit lower here. Remember you aren’t going to marry every girl you contact; you are fishing for interest and to see where you rank so you need to start in the middle. The results of this test will let you know and if you are average too, then land a date rather quickly if that is your rank or higher.

Step 3

This is the easiest step and the data for the evaluation. If you get few or no positive responses then I have bad news for you:    YOU < 5. If you receive about 25%-66% in return you are around average. If you receive over >66% return then you are above average. Remember that they may not respond for other reasons than just your rank. Maybe they are dating someone now and didn’t take down your profile, or they simply didn’t like how you look. Even Alphas don’t have a 100% success rate. There’s another possibility here too, which is despite my best effort in Step 2 you ignored it and “average” in your mind is really closer to 7+. If you did this and didn’t receive any response you need to re-read Step 2, try again, and then carry on to Step 4 below regardless.

Steps 4 & 5

These steps are necessary if you received few responses, and let’s make something very clear. If a sample (12-36) of 5’3” 160 pound women aren’t interested in you at all then this clearly, without exception means you are not even average. You are probably in the 1-3 range and likely a Gamma. There’s no way around this fact because you just went and tested the market and received your feedback in the form of actual data. This isn’t some silly quiz, or your best friend telling you what you want to hear about yourself. This is the market responding to you, and I bet you like the free market. Well, the sexual market is free too and speaks loudly about the participants. Don’t stop, and don’t let this fact make you give up. I know it does for a lot of men, especially Gammas who constantly think they are special snowflakes.

Now it’s time to aim for the threes and fours if the fives aren’t biting. This means they will likely have a higher BMI, have a number of failed relationships behind them, possible have a child, be unattractive, extremely socially awkward or weird, have dead end or no jobs, or possibly even suffer from emotional problems. I’m not going to romanticize this at all, which is what Gammas are prone to do with the fantasy of the pretty girl who thinks they are ugly. That’s pure fiction and the women in this stratum know they aren’t as desirable as other women, but they aren’t evil or wicked human beings either because of their low rank. Are you worthless because you can’t score average women? Nope. It just means you are below average like millions of other people. You need to find where you fit in.

You are just going to have to keep lowering your standards until you start to get bites if you are still striking out. For some men reading this, the low rank of the women who are actually interested in them is going to come to an absolute shock, but once again it is the reality of who you are. Men talk about taking the red pill, but are you really willing to follow that rabbit hole? What if at the end of that journey you find out you are a two? This is possible and if you’ve been a long time without even a date, likely.

There’s hope at the end of this journey because it is above all based upon the truth of who you actually are and not a fictional version you might have in your head. Remember low rank !=worthless. A perfect example is a relative of ours who is a Delta of low rank, and yet he has a loyal wife and great sons one of which recently got a scholarship. The guy is just the kind of man you'd want on your team, or to rely upon if things get tough. He’s a pretty happy guy and always good to be around. He’s a solid low ranking Delta but he will never be an Alpha, but there’s not a Gamma bone in his body. It would be foolish on his part to judge the worth of his life on his SMV because he’s in a good spot right where he’s at. In my next post I’ll detail the final steps and how to use your experience with the above plan to get where you want to go.


Rek. said...

From a statistical analysis @ OKCupid (full article:

Some snipets to widen the discussion:

This week we will confront an unfortunate truth of online dating: no matter how much time you spend polishing your profile, honing your IM banter, and perfecting your message introductions, it’s your picture that matters most.


As you can see from the gray line, women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium. Very harsh. On the other hand, when it comes to actual messaging, women shift their expectations only just slightly ahead of the curve, which is a healthier pattern than guys’ pursuing the all-but-unattainable. But with the basic ratings so out-of-whack, the two curves together suggest some strange possibilities for the female thought process, the most salient of which is that the average-looking woman has convinced herself that the vast majority of males aren’t good enough for her, but she then goes right out and messages them anyway.


Just to illustrate that women are operating on a very different scale, here are just a few of the many, many guys we here in the office think are totally decent-looking, but that women have rated, in their occult way, as significantly less attractive than so-called “medium”:

Link for photos:

Females of OkCupid, we site founders say to you: ouch! Paradoxically, it seems it’s women, not men, who have unrealistic standards for the “average” member of the opposite sex.

This is one of those instances where attractive means good-looking, since I was talking about it yesterday. Why did you not advocate for cold approach pick up? Would a fat sigma get laid from online dating? You'll probbaly respond with the fact that he doesn't need it to get laid. Sure, same applies for alphas and betas. Relying on online dating to improve one's dating prospects is a de facto indicator of delta, gamma or omega-ness. A hint of honesty is enough to appoint yourself a rank. But maybe that's the whole point, gammas lack self-honesty.

357Delta said...

Rek, Betas and even Alphas use online dating though you are right they don't need to, but it can make their success even easier.

A fat Gamma definitely needs online dating to get laid. It's much less about status and nearly everything about the opportunities due to the numbers.

OkCupid discovered hypergamy I guess they deserve a cookie.

Solemn Sentinel said...

I would add that it's better to use a free sight due to the fact that alot of girls on 'pay for full access sites' don't pay and thus cannot respond.

VD said...

Why did you not advocate for cold approach pick up? Would a fat sigma get laid from online dating?

Because he's providing gammas with something that will actually work for them. There are very few fat sigmas, and those few are very very rich. They don't need to online date.

Aeoli Pera said...

I think the sluthate guys call this the law of incel: if you are attracted to a girl, she's out of your league. Cynical but useful for average guys and below.

Gunnar Thalweg said...

This advice is way the hell off base. does not give anything remotely like your actual sexual market value (SMV). Not even close. If you go online, go with a matchmaking service like eHarmony. I used and found myself getting very little traction and barely got a date from women I didn't want to give a second look at. I was not willing to keep lowering my standards. Sorry. My high school girlfriend was a head-turning, leggy 8-9 and even though it was 20 years later, I wasn't willing to lower my standards. On eHarmony, I dated several 8s and 9s, and found a woman who was a tall, blonde, leggy, head-turning 8 and who used to be a 10 and who loves to give me head. So, screw this advice.

Style, aka, Neil Strauss -- if that guy can get laid all the time, anyone can get laid with the proper game. Your SMV is based on your game, which means your confidence level and ability to attract women.

The key for gammas is to eliminate as many gamma characteristics as possible, because gamma characteristics turn off women and even make men feel uncomfortable. Women online are living in an abstract world. In the real world, a woman is attracted to your confidence, character and your ability to give them a secure feeling--that you've got it handled, whether speaking to you or fixing the car. When it comes to attracting a woman, avoid and places where women are bombarded with messages. There's too much white noise.

Remember: You need to approach women from the side, not straight on. Online is straight on.

The idea that a man needs to say, "Oh, I'm a two so I should date a two" is ridiculous. Men are not twos unless they believe they are twos or your social skills and confidence make you a two. A woman who is a two can also do a lot to make herself more attractive to men, though in both cases it's limited.

The key is to know yourself, yes. Gammas have a gap between how others see them and how they see themselves, yes. So a hard dose of reality is necessity and rigorous honesty is essential, yes. But the reality is in your character and mastery of self ... and thus mastery of social skills necessary to attract a woman.

And remember: Don't ask women on dates. Ask them to do something you are already doing.

Manu said...

This is good advice for finding your rank based on pictures and descriptions, but it can also throw you the wrong direction at times, too.

Many years ago, I joined a dating site and noticed that I got replies consistently from 5s on up to 8s. I thought I was hot shit. I've always been a sort of High Gamma, and just looking at me you'd be hard pressed to know that my SMV was actually very shitty. I look decent, have a prestigious career, decent money and success.

My problem was (and still is, to some extent, that's why I'm here) entirely in my head, and that just did not come out in an online dating profile. So I had many responses from decently above-average women, but after a couple dates, it would always fizzle out, because the inner Gamma would assert itself.

I'm not saying this method won't work for some folks, but if you apply it and start getting responses from pretty attractive women, don't automatically assume your rank is above average and start celebrating. You could be in my position, and still have a lot of work to do on yourself.

357Delta said...

Dystopic, that's why it's important to go on the dates after you get some interest so you can learn and get better. Men have to get the dates first and this is a tool to help guys who aren't even in the game to start playing. I'm going to cover this in part 2.

Unknown said... does not give anything remotely like your actual sexual market value (SMV). Not even close. If you go online, go with a matchmaking service like eHarmony.

I think this varies a lot by region. Women tend to herd together, even online. One grocery store in town will have noticeably hotter workers and customers than the others, and the same thing seems to happen on dating sites. I generally had better luck with social media than dating sites, but even there I've noticed that all the women in my area are on Facebook and very few are on Twitter.

So don't focus on just one site, if you're going to try online dating. Check them all, including social media, and see which one seems to have the best selection in your immediate area. Online dating is a numbers game, so get the numbers in your favor.

Manu said...

Fair enough, Delta Man.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

When I filled out my profile, for description I just posted a picture of myself being all bad ass and wrote "MAN". That's it. Shut up in your description. Don't get a case of word diarrhea.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

EHarmony is worthless.

Anonymous said...

I think the sluthate guys call this the law of incel: if you are attracted to a girl, she's out of your league. Cynical but useful for average guys and below.

@Aeoli Pera
The way to bust out of that is to get an abundance mentality and an indifferent attitude. It's a bit hard to explain exactly how to do it, although in my own case, a complete crash and burn with one particular oneitis seemed to work wonders with the oneitis problem. Then, letting myself have a few flings with 4s and 5s broke me of my fear of intimacy. Plus, it gives you a huge amount of introspection once you have girls treating you like Gammas or Omegas treat women. You understand exactly how repulsive low-value male behavior is once it's directed at you.

Oftentimes, success only comes after a terrible failure, and/or temporarily settling for junk, whether when dealing with women, or in the business world.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

Just walk around with a t shirt that says "WILL BONE FOR FOOD".

Aquila Aquilonis said...

This post is actually pretty genius. Even an low rank girl can help with loneliness if not the hunger.

357Delta said...

Being on more than one site is a good idea, and expand the range of women you contact to up to one hours drive from your location. You want a big net to start with.

Happy Housewife said...

"When I filled out my profile, for description I just posted a picture of myself being all bad ass and wrote "MAN". That's it. Shut up in your description. Don't get a case of word diarrhea."

This. Back before I knew anything about the red pill or game, and was online dating, I knew automatically that if the guy's profile was longer than a paragraph, he was not worth the time. Long profiles are for women; we look at your pictures more than your info anyway.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...


That's what hooked my wife. I was a mystery to her. Plus I was bald and six feet of twisted steel and sex appeal leaning on my BMW in Okinawa.

Happy Housewife said...

Also how my husband hooked me. One sentence profile, intriguing pictures

Jehu said...

The thing about eharmony is that its model is appealing to women, thus its ratios are much more in your favor as a guy than most other sites. Met my wife there as well as a fair number of 'runners-up' The wife is 5 years younger than me, 5'2 and a half, and 110 pounds after three kids. Since the average is about the same height (maybe a shade taller) and like 40-50 pounds heavier, that must make me a Beta on the Vox scale.

Mindstorm said...

The problem with dating sites is that they garner a subset of women self-selecting for unattractiveness (attractive ones are being removed from the pool at much faster rates, even if they bother with registering at all). No way the average dating site profile would belong to a 'five' from the general population. By all means, begin with a typical dating site entrant and work your way down. But then don't call yourself someone average, or even less AVERAGE!!! Also remember, being shot down by a porker is more mentally damaging than by a slightly above average cutie.

Perhaps you should peddle more timeless wisdom along these lines - with the lights off all cats are black and all pussies doable?

Jehu said...

Right now, as the original poster pointed out, 5 is pretty wretched. Honestly I'd say that the women on eharmony average a little higher than 5, as only maybe 1/3 of the ones that expressed interest in me were overweight and only one was actually obese. Of course this is damning with faint praise.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

My EHarmony experience was with one attractive girl who broke contact before our first date, and steady succession of Aunt Jemima lookalikes. My experience resulted in a 5'9" redheaded model and three bad ass little boys.

357Delta said...

"Also remember, being shot down by a porker is more mentally damaging than by a slightly above average cutie. "

Is this what you fear?

Anonymous said...

So instead of motivating betas to become better men, the tradcon message is settle for fat bitches and worse?

Perhaps this is why tradcons go from defeat to defeat

mariner said...

Step 1: Learn the greek alphabet before you try to use it.

(Hint: Moving from gamma to delta is NOT an improvement.)

Rek. said...

@ tonsplace

Reading comprehension

There’s hope at the end of this journey because it is above all based upon the truth of who you actually are and not a fictional version you might have in your head ... not a Gamma bone in his body ... In my next post I’ll detail the final steps and how to use your experience with the above plan to get where you want to go."

Rek. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rek. said...

@ mariner

While trying to appear smart, you've succeeded in presenting yourself as a smug imbecile. Does that make you a gamma? I wonder...

Anonymous said...


Thank you for the advice, but I'm pretty solidly in the Omega camp. I have some Beta qualities, but it doesn't matter because I'm not in the Game. My interest is analogous to Bill Simmons'.

Mindstorm said...

Is this what you fear?

No, it's what I despise. BTW, on the scale between 1 and 10, the average is not exactly five, but halfway between five and six. And no amount of ALLCAPS and exclamation points would change that.

Unknown said...

If the best woman a man can get, by following these steps, is an emotionally wrecked ugly and fat woman, then one should not bother with dating, but should instead work on improving himself as a man.
A man should never lower his standards; instead, what a man has to do is elevate himself to the height of his standards.

Hammerli 280 said...

One point - location matters. It matters more as you get older. I've tried both eHarmony and Match, with very poor results. But much of the problem stems from living in a notorious dating desert...95% of the matches I was getting were 60+ miles away, often much further. Miss Early 20s might be willing to move for a relationship, but Miss Late 30s will have a lot invested in a job and family. And when you're looking at the 40+ set (where I can reasonably look), the pickings get really thin. I've got co-workers who would be considered high SMV most places...who are single. No opportunities.

Unknown said...

Reality is the bottom line, being "out with an ugly bird" bursting the bubble that your not what you think you are.

My experience of dating sites has been for time put in its not worth the effort. However I very rarely aim low on them, and size definitely puts me off. I would never normally go out with a woman who is 6 stone overweight, there is an auto-disgust reflex in there, the point is that I am going to be similarly repulsive but for different SMV reasons.

Also, I think many women treat them as a joke, my sister and friend were on one years ago and were talking about all the messages they got. They were just laughing at all the idiots, fuglies and even "arabs" that would be drooling all over them.

The problem is I already "know" that my level is low, I just "feel" like its higher.

Unknown said...

Look now if hanging out by 10 finish films like frigid 15-20 minutes just conscience pay or should I look at it I’m Phillip spore syringes and I just keep going and going and i’ll mom looking for shit and he'll start a band home Alpha Rush Pro and I love it don't really it's fucked up it almost a commercial his blood all over floor his blood everywhere it's really fucking gross they just think she'll like a balloon filled with water the net tax shit now I was fucked up makes him so Julie.

Unknown said...

Also, I think many women treat them as a joke,

A lot of the profiles on dating sites -- and I'm talking 50% or higher -- are girls who aren't really available. Many are married or seeing someone, and while that might not keep them from banging a high-enough SMV guy who asks, they're not really available if you're a Delta looking for a serious relationship. Others put up a profile for the ego boost of counting how many messages they get every day/week, or to compete with other girls. Some set it up on a lark once, but never check it and didn't bother to take it down.

So never, ever take it personally when you get rejected or ignored online. It means absolutely nothing. It shouldn't mean anything when you get rejected in real life, but it's understandable for that to sting a little. But online, it really, really shouldn't, because it's just not about you.

357Delta said...

Mindstorm the precise numerical value is irrelevant; you missed the point.

357Delta said...

Jay Will, it's good that you recognize that you "feel" your rank is higher when it reality it isn't. There's a good reason I think men of low rank should go ahead and date who's available, namely you have to crawl before you can walk. I'll detail this more in my next post. Also, who gives a flying rat's ass what your sister or her friend thinks about dating sites? It's all just posing by them to up their status. I suggest ignoring everything your sister and her friends tells you about women, their opinions on who you are dating, and what you are doing with your love life.

Double E said...

If the best woman a man can get, by following these steps, is an emotionally wrecked ugly and fat woman, then one should not bother with dating, but should instead work on improving himself as a man.

The delta man series is aimed at Gammas - individuals who relentlessly lie to themselves about their status. Before they ever can or will improve, they have to be slapped in the face with reality so hard that there is no escaping it. .

A man should never lower his standards; instead, what a man has to do is elevate himself to the height of his standards..

this is bogus. Standards aren't goals, and they aren't moral principles. They can and should be lowered if they are unrealistic. You can always have lofty goals, but lowering your standards is about accepting the truth about where you are in your life and dealing with the reality of that. It's about training. If you want to be a black-diamond level skier you don't jump right down the hardest slopes because the bunny hill is 'beneath your standards'.

Gammas in dating are the equivalent of somebody who thinks they should be able to bench press 300 lbs, but can only bench 135 every time they try, so they find a bunch of excuses why it doesn't work and they stop trying.

If they want to 'elevate themselves to the height of their standards" ( a 300 lb bench) they absolutely have to initially lower their standards and accept being seen benching 135.

Anonymous said...

Disclaimer: Personal experience, better taken with a grain of salt.
My experience with dating sites in Houston was abysmal (2005); the thing that improved my SMV was learning Salsa from a local pro. No need to become a master, just enough to gain confidence in leading and making the girl look good.
I’ve developed an appreciation of Cuban/Latin culture and music, and it was easy as cake to go into a Salsa club, grab a girl’s hand and spin her around the dance floor. After you make a girl look good dancing, they will start competing for your attention.
From dating sites I’ve got:
- An overweight government addiction counselor officer that posted a picture from her collage years (prior to her gaining 150 pounds).
- A 45 year old Latina posing as 35, with chronic back problems, a career in “Journalism” (meaning she reviewed clubs) and a deep despise of her Beta orbiters (mind that I was 30 at the time).
- Zero responses from anything that could be remotely attractive.
Keep in mind that at the time I had a muscular body, designer clothes, decent income (100k+ year), nice car (Mini Cooper) and a clean and nice apartment (3 bedrooms).
I ended up marrying in Mexico from a date (wife of a long-time friend set us up, Salsa was a thing in common), have 3 boys now.
It might have changed recently but from what I recall dating sites are the thrift shop of relationships and/or targeted at unattractive woman who can build an army of desperate orbiters.
Up your SMV in real life, avoid virtual, don’t self-select out of in-person interactions. Look for situations where you can meet girls you might like.
If she’s looking at her phone when she is supposed to look at you (e.g. first date), next her. Men age like wine. Find a younger girl that is attracted to you and want to blow you.

Mindstorm said...

For an irrelevant value, you were pretty emphatic. My fears are even less relevant, so what? I don't think that I was missing your point at all. It wasn't particularly insightful or revelatory. I just enjoy rattling your chain, if you haven't noticed. Don't let me detain you, though.

Mr.MantraMan said...

I think its great advice for Gammas, reality sucks at times. Once you have accepted reality and can work from it I have one suggestion that might save men some time, in the profiles put down specifically "no politicals" meaning no girl with any SJW tendencies. nothing says mental or emotional illness like taking up a political façade to make up for lack of personal virtue than being in a SJW cult.

Great series by the way

Anonymous said...

A woman's SMV is approx looks +/- half a point for identity. A man's SMV is more like looks +/- two points for identity. Online dating gives men much more information about how much they would like a date, because pictures convey looks quite well, but profiles convey identity poorly. Having a great profile is like a girl without pictures who says she has a 'nice ass' - it means very little. A picture of your identity would be something like the total impression that someone would get of you at a party.

Would not recommend online dating if you want (and can attract) a woman who is better looking than you. The 8-looks isn't likely to take a chance on the 7-looks, because he's about as likely to be a 5-overall as a 9-overall. Especially not when she's matching with 9-looks men, which she will, because there is a surplus of men on online dating sites due to the greater quality of information the platform provides men. Better to be at the party, where she can see that you're an 8-overall.

Unknown said...

I think that this post isn't a good advice - I mean, would you really want to find out you were a 3?
Man can live fulfilling life without woman and the life in delusion that women are bitches who can't really appreciate you may be better than life in knowledge (and depression) that you could marry only really ugly or post wall ex-carouselrider (possibly both) woman...

Also, "Don’t be something you are not."? Where is good old 'fake it till you make it' and criticizing of women for advice "just be yourself"?

And lastly whole idea of using online dating to assessing your attractiveness - that may work good for women (although I doubt that too) who are judged primary by looks but for a man? Man can be as well 5 in looks and 8 overall but that rest tends to be ignored on dating sites...

My advice would be to hit on any woman you like, no matter what your own attractiveness is, even a blind chicken sometimes gets the corn...

Double E said...

I think that this post isn't a good advice - I mean, would you really want to find out you were a 3?

In what world is being delusional about your self better than facing reality? Only in the Gamma mind. They don't WANT to find out they are a 3, but that is the point - they NEED to. If they ARE a 3 then they aren't losing anything but their delusions.

If you think it's better for these guys to stay plugged into the matrix than to improve themselves, that's your business. But it's not bad advice.

My advice would be to hit on any woman you like, no matter what your own attractiveness is, even a blind chicken sometimes gets the corn...

These posts are for people who don't want to go through life as a blind chicken.

Fred Mok said...

The 2002 CDC data was fascinating but it gets worse. According to

lists the data for 2007-2010, mean weight for women 20-29 is 161.9 pounds, by crude extrapolation of 2 lbs every 5 years, it's probably around 164 lbs. now or so.

The fascinating thing - for men 20-29, the mean weight only went up .5 lbs. in the same 8-year period between 2002 - 2010 but guys fall off the wagon big-time in the 30-39 range where the mean jumps 10 lbs - from 189.1 lbs in 2002 to 199.6. Dad bod (or something) indeed. The thirties is where a bad diet and lifestyle really catch up to you.

Fred Mok said...

These instructions are also a very helpful litmus test in determining who wants to change and who doesn't. If you cannot fully execute the instructions, you are likely stuck in Gamma and have been for a long time.

Magson said...

It's all a numbers game.

Post-divorce when I was "on the market" I mostly did online dating. I didn't keep an exact count, but the number of different women I went on dates with was in the high-double or low-triple digits over the course of a bit over 3 years. My record was 8 different women in a week -- 1 each evening with a lunch date on Saturday as well. Usually it was 1 date and out, occasionally a 2nd date, 1 we had about 5 or 6, and then there was a 4-month and an 18-month relationship out of all of that before I finally met my current wife.

I'd say there was probably about a 25% response rate to messages I sent. Maybe a bit lower, actually. And of those who responded, a date resulted only about a third of the time, and as noted above -- 90+ percentage rate of 1 date and out. Some were hot, some less so. The 18-month relationship was actually with the hottest of the lot. But she was also probably the craziest and highest maintenance. Made for an exciting, but frustrating relationship, that's for sure.

As it is, my wife is pleasant to look at, we get along well, have similar interests and goals in life. We're a good, comfortable match. When she gets jealous of anything I just remind her that yeah I dated a lot, and she won, so what's she got to be jealous of? They can all be jealous of her instead.

But it took a lot of contacts and a lot of dating over 3 years to find her. It's all about the numbers.

daleaf47 said...

The problem witht he advice is that it assumes your a 6 or lower (and not just clueless like I was). An 8 or up male will also get no responses from 5 women since they will assume he is fake (on a dating site) or just a cruel tease in person. [Been there, done that; the 4s, 3s, 2s, and 1s have no more interest in you then the 5s]

SciVo said...

@ Fred Mok: "The thirties is where a bad diet and lifestyle really catch up to you."

Or you just don't give a shit any more, because why would you.

And then some just put on more muscle.

Unknown said...

I think this is some very good advice. I think that women could do with some of this advice, too. Many people are perpetually single because they have an inflated sense of smv.

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