Friday, July 10, 2015

Delta Perspective: Dating Part 2

I bumped up this release as I think the explanation of the dating plan needs to be completed sooner.

Step 6 and beyond

Why go out with women of low rank, especially if you feel you are of a much higher rank? Well, you have to start somewhere and if this is who’s interested in you it’s the place to start. You aren’t marrying these women; you are going to go out on a date. If she’s totally a disaster you’ll have a funny story and probably still learn something. When I first went down this path I had some weirdos show up, but got some great stories out of it. Here are some of the highlights:
  • A date with a bi-sexual, dope smoking, elementary school teacher with a club foot. Totally true.
  • A girl who immediately went into a huge rant about Dubya and by the end of it said she couldn’t stand to eat without music or TV because it sounds like a pig. She then declared she didn’t want to see talk to me anymore, which suited me just fine.
  • A paralegal who was an NFL fanatic. It actually made for a good couple of dinner dates as I learned more about the NFL teams than I thought possible. She was like a library of NFL information. She was also completely uninteresting beyond that and not very attractive so I never contacted her after a few meetups.
One of the more interesting outcomes from this was that many of the women wanted to know if I was dating a lot from the online site, and when I said I was dating it upped the competition and some got a bit more interested. As though I was some sort of player at that point, this was laughable.

All of this was valuable though because I literally got better at dating, and it got me out of the house. My confidence grew because I knew that the coming weekend I wouldn’t be playing an MMO on a Saturday night but instead be out and about. As my confidence grew so did my status, as my status grew I went out with better women. Suddenly an old flame started texting me, but I wasn’t interested in her anymore and never replied.

As Cail Corishev said yesterday, don’t be evil. In this case, it’s pretty easy to do the right thing which is tell them that you are interested in meeting people, doing fun things, and seeing where it leads. There’s no subterfuge here, because it’s exactly what you are doing. If your conscience still bothers you there’s always that possibility that you’ll meet a girl who you’d never think you’d want to spend your life with, but she turns out to be pretty amazing. It’s possible if extremely improbable, but hey it could happen, right? Just don’t go into this with an expectation of finding the ugly duckling that turns into a swan.

Talk to women

Just engaging in conversation with women is difficult for some men, perhaps even frightening. These men are rarely actually frightened of the woman, but nervous about what to say and forever wrecking a chance with them. The only way I know to overcome this fear is to talk to more women. If you’ve been in a dating drought then expect to make some big blunders and blow opportunities. The important thing is to learn from them. When you say something and a woman’s eyes get wide in discomfort, they quickly leave, or other such very obvious negative responses worry much less about salvaging the situation to start with and instead contemplate what went wrong.
There are more cunning men than me who can give you a litany of responses and clever remarks to have at your disposal but let me help where I can.
  • If she’s agreed to go on a date with you she’s already interested so relax.
  • Say less, not more.
  • Ask her about herself and you won’t have to talk for a while.
  • Look her in the eye when speaking with her. This is extremely important.
  • Be prepared for shit tests and if nothing witty comes to mind in reply just stare at her for moment with your mouth closed and shake your head a little with a condescending expression. Keep eye contact and don’t look away, make her turn first.
  • It’s far less important during a shit test what exactly you say, than making it very clear that you won’t take it.
  • After the test, immediately move on and be normal. Don’t sulk that she just tested you but instead be glad because when you pass it means you are more valuable not less. She also cares enough to give you one which is a good sign. Women don’t bother with them for men they have no desire to be around.
  • Don’t get caught up in worrying about saying the coolest, most powerful, best Game comments all of the time. You want to instead be relaxed, confident, and a little indifferent in attitude.
If she’s very interested a few stupid comments on your part won’t sink the ship. Let them go. Gammas have a tendency to obsess over small mistakes.

More Experience

Besides learning how to talk with women there are a thousand little things to learn about being with a woman. If you end up seeing a girl for even a few dates you’ll probably disagree about something. How do you deal with that? Hell, just figuring out interesting things to do after a few dates becomes a challenge. Your budget will change when you date because even if you are reasonable you will have to spend some money to make it happen. The money thing won’t go away when you find a woman you really like so be prepared for it. How about gifts? What if are dating a girl very casually for only a month, but then it’s her birthday, what do you do? I’ve seen Gammas blow a whole relationship by going way overboard on what should have been a simple gift.

You can’t learn all of this by sitting on the sidelines; instead you have to get learn by doing. You need real live women to do this with, just like the only way you get stronger in the gym is to pick up the barbell or get on the machine. It will be awkward and your fail at times, but as Vox said yesterday, “Fail faster.” You’ll soon find you are better all-around in both professional and personal life in dealing with women.

Liking Women

Gammas don’t like women because they either worship them like a goddess or think they are all the spawn of the devil. Is there anything more nauseating than hearing a guy refer to his woman as a “goddess” or “angel”? Women are not demons in disguise either who is a temptation designed to destroy your life. They are not angels who will rescue you from your depression, nor slutty Alpha toys that have no agency when one appears.

One of the key distinguishing features between Gammas and Deltas is that Deltas genuinely like women. They may not be extremely successful with them all, and some are a little afraid of them, but they don’t worship or hate them.

This is why it is important to date, even if they are all of low rank. It will instantly dispel any myths about being angels, but at the same time you can learn to appreciate women for what they are.

Tune out the noise

Once you start dating expect some pushback, especially from family and some of your friends. Your mom will always want you dating someone better no matter whom you bring home, so ignore her completely unless you are planning on marrying the girl. Some of your siblings might be jealous or more likely not like the change in you. It’s comfortable having the brother or cousin who’s never good with women because they know what to expect.

The only friends who will give you real grief are other Gammas. Now, you might get some mild ribbing from some of the other ranks depending on who you bring home one night, but if any of them go beyond that they aren’t your friend. Gammas in particular will go crazy if you start to have success and most will intentionally sabotage your efforts out of jealousy, and all will start to get passive aggressive. Remember that for a Gamma anyone of higher rank is a threat, and don’t be surprised if they accuse you of taking advantage of women or turning into a dudebro or some other such nonsense. They’ll go after you for the low ranking women if that’s who you are seeing at the time too. They are miserable, and they want to you to be miserable too.

Reaching your potential

By dating, practicing, talking to women and understanding what it means to be a man in a woman’s life and the other way around you can better evaluate where you want to go and your upper limits. Tired of dating threes? Then improve yourself. Improve yourself as far as you desire or can and you’ll be better for it. If you fail, learn from it and go faster. Blow a date one weekend, send out two more messages that next week or plan on talking up the next girl you meet. Keep moving forward, keep working on it, and keep going. I’m living proof that this works.


liberranter said...

Ask her about herself and you won’t have to talk for a while.

Truer words never spoken. In fact, timing her on how long she talks about herself, and gauging your ability to get a spare syllable in edgewise, can serve as a good indicator of whether or not there will be a second date.

Athor Pel said...

I posted the following comment elsewhere some time ago.
It has to do with practicing conversation with women.

As an experiment, tell yourself at the beginning you have no intentions of doing anything with the woman outside of that one conversation. This takes the pressure off. Then let it rip.

Any mistakes you make will quickly be steamrolled over because 'you just don't care'. It's the attitude and not the content of what you say. With the right attitude you can say just about anything you want. Not even kidding.

It then becomes 'mess with her head day' or 'destroy her expectations day' or whatever kind of day you want to impose on her sense of reality. Because that's what you're doing, imposing your view of reality on her's. Your frame, not her frame.

One thing I learned when I was married, the average woman has a very weak will compared to the average guy. The thing I've learned since is that women like being led by a dominant man. Your will is naturally stronger than hers, let it roll, do not rein it in. Deferring to her in just about any way is a tingle killer.

We've been told all our lives to be nice, defer to people that probably don't deserve being deferred to, told to rein in our natural personalities in order to make some peoople more comfortable. F%*& that. Do all those things you want to do right up to that edge that gets you thrown in jail or fired from your job. From this point of view the normally crippling advice of 'be yourself' becomes powerful medicine indeed.

liberranter said...


Enthusiastically seconded.

Puzzle Privateer said...

Tangential to topic but might make for an interesting subject of a post:

The face of omega:

Rek. said...

Step 1: Be honest with yourself! And if you can't, let reality tell you were you stand (SMV).
Delta Perspective: Dating Part I: 49 comments

Step1bis: Stop the delusion aka accept reality part 2!
Learning by example: 47 commenters

Step 3: Improve yourself! 3 comments

Gammas simply don't wanna face reality. I was at my first Toastmaster event last night, some dude assuredly gamma - his insecure bragging after having talked to me for only two minutes, would convince anyone - repeatedly received the same positive criticism from many participants.

Instead of applying it, he just kept on making the same mistake. When I talked to him about it after the meeting, he started disqualifying the feedback, criticizing the people who made those comments and reinterpreting reality.

Me, I just shrugged my shoulder and smiled inside. I really don't care, it's his life. His presence and attitude is a non issue to me. BUT I can't wrap my head around the fact that he doesn't want to take the advice. Makes no sense. I've never been like that, I've always looked for positive advice and ways to improve myself.

Cherry on the cake: the loathing looks of mature women, since they were all above 40-50, during the entire event when considering his presence. It's official, I've never been gamma, which is not to say that I don't have my imperfections.

Mr.MantraMan said...

Great series, great advice. I've had my gamma moments, more than I care and this has helped realize their impact and how to negate them.

My theory on the whole rank thing is that I float between all but Alpha and I orbit mainly around Sigma maybe because I'm close to aspie or I just plain don't give a fuck. But for the vast majority of men this series is gold.

Kirk Parker said...

"Talk to women"

Yes yes yes!

Talk to your supermarket checker; talk to the ladies standing in front of you or behind you in line; talk to women when you're stopped at a street corner waiting for the Walk light...

Talk, talk, talk!

Revelation Means Hope said...

There is some good advice in this post, and the comments are good (so far). I was raised by a Delta, I had more Alpha inside that never got the reinforcement it needed in my childhood, but I can see how excellent this advice would be to someone needing to get the Delta.

Probably the hardest but best advice is to get out there and fail. Not on purpose, but be ready to accept the failure and keep on improving.

You are a man. Deep down inside, you really need to ACT, and DO, and analyze later (much later), not get caught in trepidation and fear cycling during the actual interactions with other people.

Then later as you're lying awake in bed thinking about what went wrong, find a quick course correction in your own behavior, not in your target audience, in your own behavior, and then forgive yourself and move on.

If necessary, read what Michael Jordan said about failure, about how many times he missed the winning shot in a game, and so forth. And remember that all the great sports stars had to practice, practice, practice.

We are working with my young son as a musician. Whenever we get a chance to speak with a famous musician, one thing we ask in my son's presence is about how they felt about practicing when they were young. Every time they said that there were many times they hated practicing, but did it anyway. Then they found ways to trick themselves into enjoying the practice wherever possible.

Same thing. Learn to enjoy the approach, the conversation, the first steps of the dance of seduction.

Unknown said...

Solid advice. Would read again.

Unknown said...

Its interesting to compare this advice to general PUA advice.

My impression is that the fundamentals of PUA advice is for deltas primarily. "Normal" men who have a lot of "niceness" going on, need a little bit more of the animal in them. Their capacity for learning and improving allows them to just do it make the minor adjustments.

Whereas to the gamma, PUA advice particularly the "fake it till you make it" attitude is counter productive at best and potentially worse. A lot of the forums, comment section seem to be filled with gammas rationalizing their failures with "all women are like this" types of comments. Theres no pushback so you can construct an online fake identity and kid yourself about whats going on. The Red Pill becomes little more than The Patriarchy. Excuses, excuses, excuses.

Another point is that, in my case, I don't necessarily have a problem with women. Its just the fundamental lack of normalness going on with me is challenged and tested far more with women. The raw nerve etc. Men, particularly lower delta types are easy to be around, and also more easy to manipulate, less judgemental. You get called out, ribbed by higher status males when you step out of line. And women are more likely to look at you weird, or if they sense your weak, they may be sadistic and poke at you the way another gamma might if he thinks he has an edge on you.

I got a camera coming to do photos. I'll browse internet to see what I should do with them. Any thoughts on that? For example, is it stupid to do one on a mountain bike? My natural instincts I think are awful, I was thinking it would look active etc not lazy, not sure about that. I'll just use generic profile, no nonsense talk which is what I normally do.

Just thinking then that I have much more of a problem with higher status men than with women, feel threatened in many situations. Got something on towards end of year that will test that. I need to be around that more and not hide amongst the lower delta, mild gamma types.

Anonymous said...

@Puzzle Privateer:

That collection of omega (males) all look fairly normal. The most unattractive thing about most of them is unkempt or unusual hair and facial hair.

Most of them would get +1 or +2 SMV with a shave and a haircut.

I did notice many of them have "creepy" body language and facial expressions.

Only a few had legitimately repulsive bodies, which could be fixed with weight loss.

The few females who posted are severely over weight, and freely admit to being unattractive and overweight. Then a bunch of males respond "you're so cute!"

That, friends, is why they're omegas. Apparently omegas are liars as much as gammas are.

Anonymous said...


Yes, most game advice is for deltas.

Gammas are repulsive. Nobody wants them going near women. Nobody bothers writing advice for them because they won't listen anyway.

Vox has done something really unique here. He's actually identified gammas, and then identified how to help them.

Currently watching a friend gamma it up - he has a young lady (finally) paying some attention to him, and is dangerously close to screwing it all up. Refuses to listen to advice.

It's all maddening. In past times, gammas were simply beaten to death or sent to the front lines in war.

R Devere said...

Faikure is so seriously under-rated in any endeavor. Get out there and act. If you fail , learn from it, then try again. Fail often, quickly and fruitfully. Each failure is not so much as loss as a means of learning what did not work.

As Edison said when inventing the light bulb (during which he "failed", while experimenting with a 1,000 substances); "I didn't fail, I just regularly learned which of a 1,000 materials DIDN'T work!"

As an older guy, back in the game, I've had to re-learn what works and what doesn't, especially with older women. I don't freeze when I've failed, I analyze my mistakes against the red pill resources available, adjust for age of the target class and try again.

R Devere said...

Old guy, again: Remember, YOUR frame not hers and tell them what to do, don't ask.

Been successful with a couple of "well-known expert-type" fems, the kind you'd think would never yield, but in my frame, they do what they're told to do and seem perfectly happy to be led, relieving them of the burden... Red Pill wins again!

Unknown said...


"Gammas are repulsive. Nobody wants them going near women. Nobody bothers writing advice for them because they won't listen anyway."

The delta series seems to be outlining what gamma is and how to transition, also to show non-gammas whats going on. However, being a know it all as somebody mentioned on another post, I tend to avoid advice more than ignore it. So while "rationally" I know the advice is right "emotionally" I try to get away from it or not let conversations go down that route. If they do I'm looking to get out, I can sense this in peoples faces. They don't try to press the buttons/give advice because I won't react well. Going quiet is a version of running away from it. Amongst more dominant men I will auto go quiet and tread carefully to not let the gamma out to much for fear of being punctured. The internet is a "safe place" where I can let it out, I won't to your face though because I can sense its all wrong and will expect negative reactions. I think less perceptive people or lower delta type men maybe don't really notice it or it has to be pointed out clearly.

Also most of this behaviour I think is relatively subtle, if you've got a life your not studying these situations as they happen the way I am in my head. Its only when I go full gamma, or go up the gamma gears that normal people see it, then its repulsive etc etc. I try my best to avoid letting that happen. Therefore zero intimacy is a necessity, I never talk about myself ever, hate it. I don't want you to know me but in small doses and with contained gamma I'm not I don't think horrible to be around even if I'm a "bit off". So I think there are levels of gamma at the lower end you can fit in reasonably well with limitations.

Unknown said...


"Failure is so seriously under-rated in any endeavor. Get out there and act. If you fail , learn from it, then try again. Fail often, quickly and fruitfully. Each failure is not so much as loss as a means of learning what did not work."

I agree with you but Id add that based on Vox hierarchy, delta and gamma reactions to failure are different. What its about for me is accepting how I feel when I "fail" around other people. Even the tiniest failure or slight to me is a huge bash to my propped up ego. I think I need to fail initially not in order to learn what I'm doing wrong, but to bash the inflated ego down. Therefore the answer is be around higher status men, whether its sport or whatever and get used to losing. And by losing I mean the following, if I go out for a meal and I feel insecure, and quiet (which is more likely to happen if I'm around people who are either objectively better than me or in my perception) this to me is a loss. To a normal well adjusted person that wouldn't happen, they may feel insecure etc but they wouldn't pathologize it into the big fail that I do. The big fail is I want to be alpha dominant I need that buzz my ego demands it but reality won't give in to me. Hence I like lower deltas or weak gammas who may even "rate me", I can pretend alpha and won't be shot down.

This is why its a tough process and if a gamma has options, as I do, its easy to just avoid the potential ego crushing moments. But that has to happen for me to change, if it doesn't hurt me its not working. Because of all this most of my potential has been completely wasted. I do have good potential I think, or had given my age now. Its to unlock the gamma handcuffs so you can get to the point of healthy growth through the normal process of fail, learn, fail, learn. I can't do that properly, my hindbrain is hijacking everything I do, the emotional chimp in me rules everything.

Zoot Fenster said...

Jay, please, try to write a post that does not include the words "I" or "me".

Unknown said...

@Zoot Fenster

Is that possible when talking about yourself? Self-obsession yes, but the only thing I have to offer is talking about this through referencing my own behaviour. Their too long though.

Unknown said...

Do more talk less. Hardly talk to anyone for days at a time.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SciVo said...

@ JAY WILL: I think you missed the point that navel-gazing is gamma. You don't need to stop talking; you need to practice thinking about other things. Easier said than done, I know.

SciVo said...

That might sound contradictory with self-improvement, but I think the trick is to consider how we affect other people.

SciVo said...

@ Delta Man: Again, thank you for this series. Good stuff and exactly what I need right now.

LP2021 Bank of LP Work in Progress said...

Labels aside I favor delta, sigma and alpha because they are kind and warm. Funny, creative and edgy; they bring out the best in me. sad that such misplaced fear exists among the singles. the problem is that in the coldest terms possible I cannot always abide with their terms and conditions as they request. However complete revulsion and conflict is always the outcome of the gammatude mindset. However, its only after a round or two of problems that my thinking goes from patience and compassion to outright livid objectivity with gammatudes.

Gammatude is possibly a SJWdistraction but only really serves as one annoying lesson after another that I take total entertainment in. His ego and pride are still butthurt months and months later. It has nothing to do with me, its his own ego and pride all busted up over some woman named Linda. As if I even had the pull over anyone or anything to receive that reaction.

Brad Andrews said...

John, they may be "hot" to omegas. Remember that the term is relative and any food seems great if you have none.

357Delta said...


It sounds to me that Facebook is an additional dating tool for you, and so it is useful in determining rank. If the women are above average you are hooking up with and taking interest in you, it means you are above average as well.

357Delta said...


I'm glad to help.

Anonymous said...

I use to favorite men practicing on low rank women but no longer do.

The men tend to get hooked on the low rank women and suffer a right goodly amount because of it. Something I have witnessed 1st hand and one of the regular commentators here made a great logical argument for so I had to change my position.

The kind of men who need the practice are the kind of men who end up staying with the low value woman.

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