Wednesday, June 24, 2015

Staring in fascination at his own navel

Yesterday Delta Man posted about the good life that can be achieved by most men. There were, as you might expect, the usual remarks from the bitter no-hopers who see inevitable doom and disaster in a coin toss, but I thought that this response from Jay was an extremely informative classic with regards to the Gamma's instinctive response to the potential for self-improvement:
Not sure what you think of the following - I bought the same main course in a restaurant while on holiday on 2 different days . The woman I was with gave me a funny look and told me to grow up, I tried to laugh it off make a joke of it etc but says a lot about you, how you react to that sort of thing. Is buying the same thing like that a bad sign?
First of all, we have the conventional Gamma narcissism. What the fuck does this have to do with the post? Nothing. Nothing at all. But like the solipsistic women whose mindset they share to a certain degree, the Gamma's motto might as well be "enough about you, let's talk about me."

Anyhow, buying the same thing is totally irrelevant. The Gamma has it backwards. He's always looking at "what he does" as being the problem rather than "what he is". In my nightclub days, I always ordered the same drink. But I am a high-rank Sigma, so instead of "telling me to grow up", people would see me coming and put the drink in my hand. Once a guy even handed me my notoriously bright blue drink when I was downtown on a date, in my car, stopped at a traffic light. The look on my date's face was hilarious. It's not what you do, it's who you are and how you do it.

As you'd expect, Jay's response was lame and only made it worse. Gamma's always "try to laugh it off" and make a joke of it. "Ha ha, the joke is on you, because blah blah blah" is the standard Gamma reaction. That doesn't work. Everyone sees through it because it's not a joke, it's a challenge. My response to a woman questioning what I wanted to eat (what the fuck, I don't think that has ever happened in my life) would probably be nothing more than a look of contempt, possibly punctuated by a snort. It's not her business and I don't care what she thinks about what I eat.

Good lord, I can almost hear the rambling attempt to laugh away, and explain, and justify, and preen, and posture now. Anyhow, Jay did return his attention to the actual post long enough to try to make it about himself:

Given the idea of transition from gamma to delta what do people think about the following -

You give me ideas of things that I should do, I go out and do them. Then report back with what happened, how it seemed to me, and see what you all think? Perhaps be worth me giving a basic outline of how I live etc so you know a bit about me beforehand rather than just have the general idea of gamma/delta. Not sure if there is omega tendencies in me, seems like it. Weirdo factor. Social wonkiness. Literally no idea who I am. Im probably much better than I think at times. Im liked anyway lol!

I'll have a think about the Delta thing about responsibility. My inital take on that is feeling like a bit of a servant to others, I'm not sure whether its just "what" I would be doing rather than "that" Im doing it. With genuine effort plus time its obvious to me I'd improve but I think the problem is facing these sorts of things opens up old psychogical wounds that Ive sort of buried by avoiding everything that I can get away with. They will definitely float back up again from the brain pool. Emotional confusion in the moment results in me wanting to run away.

Im playing pool more now and have goals with that, also started mountain biking with father. I can see me going for long rides on my own. The women thing is a huge problem Ive got hang ups about my hang ups. Maybe good to do some stuff with that. Theres little better than a woman being into you.

Ive thought about this before about using a blog like this for the above purpose, not sure if its imposing a bit though. Some level of attention seeking in it definitely. I need the truth of who I am and whats happening its clear but Im not gonna let anybody say it to me, and they know it so don't go there. Triggered!! Im an SJW, at least in the sense of the emotional underpinnings of it all, the need for ideology, excuse etc etc. Ranting on about nonsense. On my own usually, what would the neighbours think!
Ye cats. So, he wants to write about himself BEFORE he even considers doing something that he isn't even convinced is worth doing yet and in the process proceeds to explain why he shouldn't bother doing it anyway. Still wonder why Gammas never get anywhere?

Jay, in answer to your question, the idea is a very bad one. You do not need more attention, quite to the contrary, you need to get over yourself, stop paying so much attention to people paying attention to you, stop thinking about yourself, stop thinking about people's potential reactions to things you might do, and simply DO what should be done. Introspection is not your friend. There are men who could do with more introspection and self-awareness, but you are not one of them. You have a surfeit of both.

No man, in the entire history of Man, has ever accomplished anything of note while gazing at his navel.


Unknown said...

My response to the woman would have been, "Huh?" because I wouldn't even have known what she was getting at. Knowing what you like is unmanly now? That's the dumbest thing I've heard all week, and I argued on Twitter yesterday. Had to be a shit test, or she's so disgusted with him that she's openly sniping at him now.

The point about "laughing things off" can't be overstated. Gammas are constantly trying to laugh off everything that bothers them, and the volume of the laughter indicates the level of their fear. On another forum, there's a guy who's gradually alienating all the members with his narcissistic and asspie behavior, and his posts are up to about 50% things like "(chuckling)". Open derision can be powerful, but you have to mean it -- it can't be faked -- and a little goes a very long way.

Rek. said...

JAY you really have gone full circle here. I do remember you from the gamma series. Your interest in pool is really what "gave you away".

Here are links to your previous comments. Your behavior is bordering on absurdity. Reading what you've previously posted is all the therapy you need.

Are you Gamma? 1 of 2 (02/19):

Winning, redefined (03/03):

Alpha Mail: Diagnosis Gamma 1 (03/04):
-> one gamma we will call GW for the sake of privacy

Alpha Mail: Diagnosis Gamma 2 (03/05):

The source of Gamma delusion (03/13):

Graduating Gamma 4 (03/24):
-> I'm just looking for attention here I think.

It's been 3 months, man. Exactly. Don't you think it's high time, you did something about your situation. Go bang a hooker.

Chad said...

Jay needs to go out and do more. More of everything. Then he'll realize that NO ONE CARES what you do unless it affects them; which it does far less often than you think.

Really gammas, have some humility. You are not Homer, and your life is not an epic poem. At most, the average man can be a part of something greater than himself. All Christians are guaranteed this. It is not being a servant, it is being ablle to reap the benefits of those that have gone before us and what they have built. You cannot benefit from that in any meaningful way while also tearing it down.

Get over yourself, enjoy life, and see how God set things up for you to participate in his infinite greatness through our miniscule deeds.

GAHCindy said...

Goodness gracious. What a weanie.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

people would see me coming and put the drink in my hand. Once a guy even handed me my notoriously bright blue drink when I was downtown on a date, in my car, stopped at a traffic light

Yes, exactly. This is a good thing. You want to reach that point where people go out of their way to please you. You want your woman to make a special effort to prepare your favourite dish, the one you always order when you go out, because she loves and respects you and wants to please you. Again, this is a good thing.

Crowhill said...

"No man, in the entire history of Man, has ever accomplished anything of note while gazing at his navel."

Guys, do not take this as a challenge. The world doesn't want you trying to set the land speed record while gazing at your navel.

David said...

I probably would've said, "mom is that you?" and gone back to eating. Gammas invite disrespect because they're so eminently weak that some people can't help but attack them for it. Who would mock an alpha or a sigma for their food choices on a date? The girl would be hoping not to mess it up by outright mocking them, but the Gamma? She knew immediately she wasn't having this guy.

hank.jim said...

How you react to a woman like that is nothing. Ask her why ordering an entrée constitutes growing up. A grown up pays for their dinner. Ask her if she will pay for her share. Of course, that will ruin the mood so perhaps leave out the last line. Anyways, a Gamma that won't change shouldn't.

Haus frau said...

So disgusted with him him she's openly sniping at him....this is exactly what she's doing. I could feel myself wanting to slap him just reading his comments.

Solemn Sentinel said...

I can only think he ordered off the kiddy menu, or made a complete fool of himself the last time. The girls that serve me on a regular basis tend to ask "your usual?" with a smile.

Markku said...

I don't know precisely HOW disgustingly gamma Jay was at the time. It might have been genuine contempt.

But I don't read it that way just from what I have here. I read "grow up" in such a situation as a playful, sassy remark from a woman. She hopes for the man to respond in equally playful way. Preferably in some way she didn't anticipate, though just your basic, foreseeable agree-and-amplify would suffice. They do this little on-the-spot drama because they enjoy the footplay of it. Women like wit over intelligence. Just watch some romantic comedies.

But respond in a butthurt way to something like this, and the woman will see what you are in an instant.

LP2021 Bank of LP Work in Progress said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

Ok, think your right there I'm trolling for attention.

One point though -

"First of all, we have the conventional Gamma narcissism. What the fuck does this have to do with the post? Nothing."

I should have related it to the comments section which I was effectively replying to. There were some comments relating to how gammas or deltas deal with women. I just turned it all into me.

LP2021 Bank of LP Work in Progress said...

ANY opportunity for self improvement is rejected.

The delta post is reality for so many of us, we hang out with our family and friends, relax and enjoy life. Its called well adjusted - this is how men, women and families live. Bitter gammas are not in reality and are quite possibly a threat or distraction to rational discourse.

Something else requires possible attention, deltas/sigmas and alphas are not meek or weak and should not be taken for such.

Unknown said...


It was scornful, derisory wasn't light hearted.

Manu said...

That's pretty bad. What does ordering the same meal have to do with anything? My response to the comment would have been something along the lines of "because I like it? Why the fuck else do you order a meal?"

I've got Gamma tendencies, but damn... that's really bad, Jay.

Markku said...

You know, I can't just take your word for it. It is important to the game to sound convincing, and women are, on the whole, better at it than men. On a basic level it's a shit-test; can you read social context over the words and the tone. If you can, then you probably are not a low-status man and don't have self-esteem issues. But of course, they don't do it in a calculating way like that, they just enjoy it.

However, if you had already disgusted her by some other means, then it is possible that your food happened to function as the outlet for that disgust. I cannot tell just from what is here.

As for what you should have done; as Vox said, the main problem is what you are, not what you do. What should have happened is for you to not even remember the incident. Because it was just absolutely nothing. As for what you should have ordered afterwards, the answer is "whatever". Maybe her words caused you to have an epiphany and realize that there is a whole world of cuisine out there apart from your supposed baby-food, and start a gastronomical adventure. Or, maybe order the same dish every time. Completely irrelevant.

The relevant thing is that a nothing-remark got under your skin. That's what shouldn't have happened.

Permakulturnik said...

Alpha ordering food:

Unknown said...

Jay, for the love of everything good and beautiful in this world, stop overthinking and quit being a soft cunt. If we had been in a bar, I(and many others I'm sure) would've slapped the shit out of you by your first 'lol.' As for the idea of becoming delta and "a servant to others," you being concerned about how to handle a woman criticizing your PERSONAL FOOD PREFERENCE makes you an emotional slave to them. Deltas may not be the top of the food chain, but they've got something you don't: Dignity.

Unknown said...


"However, if you had already disgusted her by some other means, then it is possible that your food happened to function as the outlet for that disgust. I cannot tell just from what is here."

Thats what it was, its not one or two things more a general sense of what I am rather than what Ive done. She said after she knew it was all a bad idea when I had tears in my eyes on the way in the car to the airport, there was gammaesque naval-gaze music on. She wasn't meant to notice, she was driving.

Tommy Hass said...

"No man, in the entire history of Man, has ever accomplished anything of note while gazing at his navel."


Unknown said...

"She wasn't meant to notice, she was driving."

Your failure to notice the problem with what you just posted is much more important than anything she was or wasn't meant to notice.

Brad Andrews said...

We are lacking good mentors today. How many men have someone older who can effectively teach them the ropes?

Unknown said...

"Jay, for the love of everything good and beautiful in this world, stop overthinking and quit being a soft cunt"

As my mate says, "stop being a bedwetter"! "You can't win nothing from under the duvet"...but I can change the endings in my head though. I always come out on top in my dreams. In reality its like the holiday, embarrassing. I'm just a child, arrested development can't function in normal life. Can see it off normal men (higher testosterone?), they look at me funny, they know straight away I'm a wrong un. Don't get jokes, always being sarcy, being "weird". I'm continually battling to pretend I'm a "normal" (I nicked that off that writer Capote) no doubt failing abysmally.

People are saying on here don't lol it off, what you want me to do? Its how I cope, without taking the piss out of myself I'd feel terrible. Its easy to say don't overthink it but it snap happens EVERY time I'm in ANY social situation. Do you realize how much I fuckin hate that? I mean suicidal hatred when I was 21ish. Have you ever walked down the street muttering under your breath at 6am in the morning, on way to office work, to face the near intolerable 40 hour week of trying to pretend I'm not a fkcin wreck in my own head saying "you cunt" "loser" etc etc. I took anti-depressants for a period, suddenly a piece of piss talking to people, whats going on there? All in my head is it? The destroy your dick though, its like nature is the biggest troll of all.

If I was being "myself" Ive got nothing to say about anything, I don't do anything lol, my mate says "what you been up to", what can I say, sitting around in my pants all day usually. He wants me to have something interesting to say, there isn't anything all I got is bullshit.

I'm getting a new bike, do long trips on my own. I'm obsessive so I know I can go a long way. Sit there on a bench after 40 miles, looking at the trees, the sun through the branches and leaves, not stuck in a flat. Nod at the guy walking past, can pull that one off easy he probably won't be able to tell. I remember somebody once saying to their kid as I came past, "let the man thru". She didn't know that really I'm not a man at all.

Look I know its repulsive to you all on here, and probably broing and repetitive too, but thats the way I am. In a tougher age Id have been drowned in early youth, too much of a risk to the group. Instead in our new wonderful age teachers were telling me how great and well adjusted I was, all up until adolescence when all that bollocks becomes irrelevant and nature kicks in. The correlation between sexual failure in adolescence, early adulthood and social loserness is utterly obvious.

Unknown said...

@Bateful higot

Enlighten me I don't know. Her driving instead of me?

Manu said...

@Bateful Higot: "you being concerned about how to handle a woman criticizing your PERSONAL FOOD PREFERENCE makes you an emotional slave to them."

Being a voluntary servant to others is better than being a slave to a woman's emotional whims, that's for sure. This goes back to the notion of Gammas thinking that they should be Alphas. They are so concerned with appearances... they mistake the packaging for the contents.

I've been there. I still fall into that trap on occasion. Reading Jay's posts was shudder-inducing. Hits a little too close to home. To other Gammas: remember this, and other posts like this one. Commit it to memory. When you find yourself doing something like this, STOP. Shut the fuck up. Silence is better than digging a deeper hole.

Unknown said...

Markku, I guess it depends on why she was there in the first place. If it was a date, then maybe he's not completely hopeless, and she was trying to draw out whatever masculinity she thought she saw that got her to agree to the date in the first place.

But now that he says he was crying in front of her later.... By the way, Jay, she was going to know you were crying whether she was meant to notice it or not. Whether or not she saw the tears, she could feel the emotion coming off you.

If you're seriously looking to change, it might help to look at the comments by women here. You'd expect women to recognize your pain and want to nurture you and make it better, because you've been taught that's what women do, right? So far, the women here have called you a weenie and wanted to slap you. THAT is how women react to a "sensitive" man, no matter what all the movies have told you. (That's not a criticism of those women; their honesty is educational and appreciated.) When women in magazines say, "I wish I could get him to open up to me," they're talking about a guy they've been banging for six months and they've never seen him get emotional except during football games.

Let me be perfectly clear: when she started telling you she knew this was a mistake, your chance of ever having sex with her would have been better if you'd whipped your dick out and said, "Mistake this, bitch," than by crying. Save your emotions for funerals and dead dogs.

David said...

Also, hit the gym. A lot of problems with modern men come from the fact that they're uncertain of their strength, comes from life being too easy now (which is both good and bad). It helps tremendously, both physically and emotionally, knowing that if you got into a fight with someone you could at least hold your own.

And the same thing goes with conversations. If you can work on your wit and being relaxed talking to people, not viewing everything through the worst possible light, you won't worry about some retarded challenge like the one that woman threw at you because you know you'll have something good to come back with that, if it doesn't make her laugh, it will make others around her laugh.

Patrick Kelly said...

"stop paying so much attention to people paying attention to you, stop thinking about yourself, stop thinking about people's potential reactions to things you might do, and simply DO what should be done. Introspection is not your friend. There are men who could do with more introspection and self-awareness, but you are not one of them. You have a surfeit of both."

pure gold....less talk, more rock....guilty as charged.......

357Delta said...

Jay, you need to have the pendulum swing the other way for at least a month or two. If any woman gives you even the hint of a s*** test and she cannot jeopardize your career you need to say "go to hell" immediately in a variety of amusing ways. No regrets. No apologies.

Look her right in the eye when you do it too. In fact, practice saying "go to hell", "buzz off", and "sorry, did you say something?" in front of the mirror when you get home tonight until it looks convincing and a bit angry.

Manu said...

When my wife gets testy, I fart (if I've got one on deck -- but I often do). No joke, no bullshit. If she has the temerity to insist that it was rude or disgusting, I respond with "so was what you just said." I don't get near as many shit tests from her, now.

Anonymous said...

Jay, take some advice from Dr. Newhart.

Unknown said...


What Dr. Newhart said.

Anonymous said...

Better to remain silent and appear foolish, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt, Jay.

Also, the most interesting person in the room is the often the one who will sit and listen. You won't get to be alpha that way, but you're likely to embarrass yourself a lot less. And women almost always enjoy gushing and talking so there won't be too much silence.

Gunnar Thalweg said...

I have not read other comments yet, just wanted to applaud at the last paragraph. The question for gammas is how, and one answer is they need to sit still for a moment and "find" themselves. That's the part that's hard to articulate. It's not ruminate or even meditate. It just takes a second. It's like finding the cursor on a computer screen. Ask: Where am I? Oh, right, here I am.

I believe one reason gammas are the way they are (and I include myself as having too many gamma characteristics) is they have lost themselves among their own thoughts and urges and feelings. They are obsessed with themselves because they've allowed their conscious selves to wander off into the weeds and they can't find it. And then they think finding themselves means a massive process. It's a process that should take about a second. That's what's meant by "get over yourself."

I wish I had a better way to articulate this.

Markku said...

Well, Jay, I was pretty much there once. You think you have so little social capital that you think whatever slight someone makes at you, causes you to lose what little you had. So, it's a disaster and you overreact to it - which overreaction causes you to have little social capital in the first place.

Sadly, I can't tell you how I recovered from it. It wasn't a trick, it just happened "organically". But I suppose an important step is to intellectually recognize all elements of the dysfunction, so that your subconscious mind can start working a game plan for fixing it. As long as you don't understand the entire map of the problematique, there can be no solution.

But there is no silver bullet.

Markku said...

Here's you, Jay

Don't be that.

VD said...

You know, I can't just take your word for it.

Dude, there is NO WAY it was playful. I have literally NEVER had a woman pull that kind of shit with me, playfully or otherwise. It was an open expression of contempt, and he badly mishandled it because gamma.

Markku said...

From what I gather, your gastronomical choices lean towards the gay, not towards the juvenile.

Manu said...

@Markku: "But there is no silver bullet."

Nope. There sure isn't. Undoing Gamma is not easy. If it was, we wouldn't all be talking about it.

Markku said...

Also, I give shit and take shit for food and drink ALL the friggin' time. Give more than take, but anyway. And it's never malicious.

VD said...

Its how I cope, without taking the piss out of myself I'd feel terrible.

You should feel terrible. You ARE terrible. Seriously, your behavior is so cringe-making that it makes men want to slap you and you can hear the sound of women's vaginas snapping shut all across the Internet.

Stop fucking PROTECTING yourself and stop obsessing about yourself. Embrace the pain so that you can learn to stop behaving in ways that create more of it. Stop creating those idiotic little fantasies in your head. You're not the king, you're not the alpha, AND YOU NEVER WILL BE.

Look into the mirror and tell yourself this: "I am an embarrassing fucking loser. I am at my bottom point. BUT I DON'T HAVE TO STAY HERE. I don't have to be like this."

And then, stop lying and stop crying. Stop fantasizing and start doing. If you fail, SO FUCKING WHAT? Get up, go out there, and fail again. And learn from your mistakes, at the very least, make DIFFERENT ones next time.

That is how you learn to succeed.

VD said...

From what I gather, your gastronomical choices lean towards the gay, not towards the juvenile.

Sophisticated. The term is SOPHISTICATED.

There are few things girls like as much as public zero fucks given. SB and I were out at a restaurant, the same place we'd had our first date, and the people at the next table were just being idiotic and posturing about the wine that they clearly knew nothing about.

So, naturally, I ordered "a bottle of one of them merrLOTTs" loud enough to make sure they could hear me. SB just about died laughing when the expected sniffs and superior eye-rolling commenced at the other table.

Brad Andrews said...

I am not sure it is possible Jay, but you really need someone with a fairly level head that can say things like what Vox just posted to your face and have you really listen to them. You need to do better, not wallow in your repulsiveness.

Markku said...

Here's your main problem, Jay: People like to enjoy any given social situation. They like to be around people that increase that enjoyment, and avoid people who decrease it.

People are also empathic creatures. When you feel hurt, it rubs off on them and they experience a milder form of the feeling themselves. They tolerate this when it's a one-time thing in specific circumstances, but when it happens unpredictably all the time, you become an emotional vampire. All they can do is remove you from their immediate vicinity. And they WILL. I've heard people often discuss elaborate strategies for avoiding a person just like you, with plausible deniability as to the fact that it's deliberate.

When you at least stop subtracting from their enjoyment by being around, you have stopped the vicious circle and you start getting some human contact that's not constantly looking for a way out. And when you actually start adding to it, then it becomes a feedback loop for the positive.

Markku said...

empathetic, not empathic.

Unknown said...

I'm inclined to agree with VD on the food choices. What is more childish than conspicuously acting like a child? Making a Broadway production out of being an adult. The former is expected from a child, and is very funny coming from an adult that can deliver. The latter is adorable in a child, and contemptible in an adult. The only time the latter is funny is in satire:

Unknown said...


"From what I gather, your gastronomical choices lean towards the gay not the juvenile"

Don't get what that means.

Markku said...

I said it to Vox, not you.

Retrenched said...

Somewhat related, from Matt Forney. On how no one gives a fuck about you, and why that's a good thing --

Unknown said...


Just want to add you are hearing all the worst of me. Its all true. But I'm very negative about myself generally, I'm not sure how I come across, I realize on here its going to seem like I am repulsive to other people. However, I have lots of people who seem to like me they want me to do well I think. Its me who's pulled away a lot from people. That mate Ive mentioned who is doing well, its him who continually asks me out on the pop or for golf. Whats wrong with him, why is the winner guy with a good looking wife, good connections still bothering with me after all these years? Can't be all bad can I? I'm giving away my worst moments and all my worst thoughts, their bad I'm just saying its not the complete picture. It would be better if you got information from people who know me they can see what I act like.

Im all over the shop aint I! Honestly I'm not as bad as all that, am I?

Im trying to be honest and everything Ive said is true, however I'm defintely trolling for attention too. All alone old Willers!

Retrenched said...

From the article:

Because it means you have a near-infinite license to remake yourself. Unless you’re a serial killer, you’ve spent most of your life flying under the radar. People don’t think ill of you, they don’t think well of you; they don’t think of you at all.

You are not your adolescent awkwardness.

Forget the past, forget your mistakes, forget your missed opportunities and start creating the life you want to today. There’s nothing in your way but your own self-doubt.

Anonymous said...

"So, naturally, I ordered "a bottle of one of them merrLOTTs" loud enough to make sure they could hear me"

Did you order ice to put in it as well?

Markku said...

Can't be all bad can I?

Yes, you're gamma, not omega. Vox's hierarchy is two-dimensional. Social success and sexual success are two different axes. Gammas have an amount of social success, but they don't have sexual success. Omegas have neither.

In general, men don't react as strongly to gamma behaviors as women do. Don't get me wrong, they DO react negatively, but not so much that they won't take it for short periods of time. Especially if they feel a sense of obligation due to past history.

Bastiat's Ghost said...

Vox, I see what you mean about Gamma now. Talking with this guy is little more than verbal masturbation.

Anonymous said...

There are few things girls like as much as public zero fucks given.

This sentence should be a post all by itself. Nothing more needs to be said.

~ Stingray

Unknown said...

It depends on what you think of Markku's comment above. I'd argue that it is, in fact, that bad... considering that you consider completely irrelevant statements like this:
"She wasn't meant to notice, she was driving."
As acceptable rationalizations for what was(I hope, for your sake) a distinctly embarrassing end to a very embarrassing experience. Nevermind that she DID notice, and that you clearly announced your feelings in a way that anyone with a modicum of social intelligence would've noticed. It's worth noting that unless you're an emotionally fragile man-child, you're doing this for attention. I would say that you're being a selfish little girl, but they have the excuse of not knowing any better.

Something tells me situations like this are rather common, and you use similar excuses to feel better about them. Quit settling for being mediocre. Quit fearing failure. Accept that you make mistakes and learn from them. Everyone hurts and everyone fails, they just don't think their problems have to become everyone else's.

"Did you order ice to put in it as well"
You've a sick, twisted mind. 10/10

Anonymous said...

Vox's hierarchy is two-dimensional. Social success and sexual success are two different axes. Gammas have an amount of social success, but they don't have sexual success. Omegas have neither.

For most categories, there's a roughly parallel balance of social and sexual success. Alpha, Beta, Delta, and Omega have the most to least of both.

Gamma and Sigma are the oddballs. Gammas are good socially but bad sexually, whereas Sigmas are good sexually but bad socially (except for getting a special "Sigma pass" from hot women). This would possibly be another reason why they hate each other so much.

Rek. said...

"In general, men don't react as strongly to gamma behaviors as women do."

I believe most gammas will reign in the gamma behaviors when in the company of men. Because for one they don't want to appear uncool (actively trying) and secondly other high(er) SMV men will mentally and emotionally unconsciously subjugate those abhorring inclinations (passively keeping gamma outbursts at bay).

Just look at how most of us males are reacting at JAY WILL's current posturing. Some of us would probably punch him in the face if we came to meet him and he knows it. Scared little puppies usually try to behave.

Is JAY WILL a troll?

TheRedSkull said...

Descartes and the surgeon in master and commander who removed a bullet from his belly. Navel gazers.

Marriage isn't a coin toss. Divorce isn't the onlynegative. US girls are property of uncle Sam the big pimp, not husbands or fathers. Marriage is serfdom to Babylon. Marriage 2.0 is anti biblical.


Markku said...

Is JAY WILL a troll?

I don't think so. I recognize those thoughts.

Manu said...

Depends. If a Gamma can admit his flaws, I can respect him. I've been there. It sucks. If he can't, then I probably want to belt him in the face more than most people -- because I know that's one of the few ways to wake up a Gamma.

Manu said...

I consider VD as a sort of intellectual equivalent of that much-needed punch to the face for Gammas -- if they bother to listen to him, anyway.

Unknown said...

Look into the mirror and tell yourself this: "I am an embarrassing fucking loser. I am at my bottom point. BUT I DON'T HAVE TO STAY HERE. I don't have to be like this."

I was thinking something similar. I don't think Gammas look themselves in the eye very often. So do it literally: walk into your bathroom, stand up straight, shoulders back, deep breath, and look yourself in both eyes in the mirror. You'll squirm, but stay put and hold eye contact until you're ready to be honest with yourself, however long it takes. This isn't navel-gazing; it's triage. Tell yourself how you suck, and don't offer any excuses, but don't snark on yourself either. There's no joking your way out of this. Use small words and few of them, to keep your meaning plain. There's no one there to perform for, no one to impress, no one to fool. If you can't be honest with yourself there, where can you be?

Tell yourself (saying it out loud might help) that you can do better and you will. You can't fix the past, so it doesn't matter why you suck; what matters is what you do next. Pick something specific: "Today I'm going to do X." Like, "Today I'm going to keep my feelings to myself," or, "Today I'm going to hold eye contact for a full second with each person I meet." Ideally, do this every morning to set the stage for your day, then again in the evening to check in and see how you did. Don't get discouraged when you fail; learn from it to do better tomorrow.

If you're a believer, pray about it, with specifics: "Lord, help me to look people in the eye today." If you need to talk to someone about your feelings, talk to God. When you catch yourself falling into a Gamma behavior, distract yourself with a quick prayer: "Lord, help me to be a man right now."

I'd also suggest that you forget about women for a while. Normally I wouldn't say that, but this is an extreme case, and right now your interactions with women are so bad that they're almost sure to make you worse. Take that pressure off by declaring a personal moratorium on dating for a month, at least. Give yourself the freedom to work on other things. Don't hide from women, but when you interact with them at work or whatever, try to treat them as if they were family, or as if you already had a great girlfriend and weren't available. I think you'll get to a state of mind where you're capable of having a good date faster if you just take that off the table for a while.

Matt said...

Im reminded of the scene in "Afaptation", where Brian Cox's character eviscerates Nicolas Cages character for asking a stupid question at a seminar. The character was a total Gamma, self imposed Omega, as well.

Funny, in the movie, his identical twin brother is great with women despite being the same fat balding ugly man.

Unknown said...

Is JAY WILL a troll?

It's really irrelevant, because "Jay" does exist. This particular Jay may be acting and screwing with us, but the attitudes and behaviors he describes are very real and all too common. Like Markku, I recognize many of them. Whether I can help him or not -- whether this "Jay" exists to be helped or not -- I write to help the guy who does read it and can be helped, because I wish I'd been told these things sooner.

Unknown said...

Egads, the first-person pronoun density in Jay's comments... An obvious narcissist.

Res Ipsa said...

@ Jay

Jay it seems like you are able to get women interested enough to spend some time with you and then it blows up in your face. I've got some of questions if you don't mind:

1. How do you get introduced to these girls? Is it on your own so to speak (you ask them in person) or some other method?
2. How many dates does it take before things go badly? In the situation you described it seemed like this was at least the second time out with that chick.
3. How often are you able to get a date with a different girl?
4. How old are you and how old are the females?

Judging from what you posted so far, it seems like at least initially, women are interested enough to give you a shot. That's something to go on.

I don't know how to get you to deal with your emotions better. Men, in general, have very strong emotions, however letting others see those emotions is extremely detrimental to our goals. This fact is the polar opposite of western culture and the "get in touch with you emotions", "express yourself" etc attitude often espoused and promoted. As my hero Archie would say "stifle it already".

You are going to feel whatever it is that you are feeling. Right now you can't help that. What you can help is talking about it. DON"T talk about it, especially not with her. She doesn't want to know, even if she says she does, she doesn't. You don't want to tell her about it, even if you think you do.

Three things you can do better when dealing with women:

1. Shut up.
2. Don't share anything that is in anyway emotional until after the third blow job. Only do it then if she is putting 120% effort into pleasing you.
3. Do this

Markku said...

Judging from what you posted so far, it seems like at least initially, women are interested enough to give you a shot.

I have also heard of this exact phenomenon. It's traditional gamma.

Rek. said...

" I write to help the guy who does read it and can be helped, because I wish I'd been told these things sooner."

Quite noble. I've lost most any desire to help virtual hard cases over the months. What is particularly unnerving is Jay's way to ignore the advice he has received over the months and again in this thread, dubbling down on the navel gazing at every opportunity. The guy is 40-year-old for crying out loud.

His referring of himself in his party animal nickname "Willers", delusions of persecution (gay food comment), hypersensitivity and know-it-all disposition is a bit much. The guy is all over the place.

I do hope that he will benefit from everyone's instructions. Instructions, not advice.

Unknown said...

@Res Ipsa

1) The women Ive met are either through being out on weekends in the pub, or through dating sites. I found anti-depressants changed my personality without any character change, in the short periods I was on them I would approach much more without fear. I think most of the ones that lasted for a few months were from taking those, I was still all wrong but I had this buzz, fearlessness Ive never felt before. They definitely liked me when I was in that zone. The magic beans, I know if I went back on them I'd get same results.... and then same blowups to follow.

2) With the holiday one it was through dating site, plus I did tell her all my weaknesses there was ridiculous amounts of internet and texting xxxxxxing going on. I suspect rebound, she had 2 kids she really didn't need a guy like me but I guess in her spot she has limited options. First night I was up her house she was crying her eyes out over me.

3) On the beans any night Id go out I could get numbers, I'm usually full of self-doubt, insecurity, paranoia, second guessing, internal nonsense etc. Not on them. Easy peasy. Relaxed. I haven't bothered since the last blowup its obvious its me so it'll go wrong unless something about me changes. Normally very difficult to get a date.

4) Im 41, virginity lost at 21. Only had non-pissed regular sex with woman at 23 ish. She was about 36 recently divorced. Its been older women generally Id say. Haven't bothered for about 5 years, "working girls" and porn only. Best time with woman was about 5 years ago, she was married met her for one night. She was 55, never felt a woman so into me lol. She was in good shape, obviously for her age.

I think I just want to let things off my chest. Hence the rambling indulgence. Who wants to listen to this shite, avoid intimacy and people will only get pockets of my nonsense. And then, I can actually grow on you, honest!!

Manu said...

I just can't, Jay. It's too much. I mean no offense -- and that's sincere -- but your posts make me physically ill. Look, there's some Graduating Gamma literature on here. Go read it. Or just do what the guy in that Youtube video someone else posted earlier said to do: STOP IT!

When you get the urge to write a bazillion paragraphs about yourself, don't. Go do something manly instead. Lift weights, drink a beer, build something with your hands. Doesn't matter much what it is, but it'll take your mind off that shit. Don't even think about women. Ignore porn. No working girl fun.

Work on yourself.

And if you don't mind, I think I'll go take my own advice. Good luck.

Unknown said...


This is what I was thinking about with the trolling. Everything I'm saying is true, perhaps my interpretation of events is wrong, but WHY am I doing this? The gamma is manipulative in nature. Draining. An emotional vampire. How come I have no problem giving away the worst in me? Making people physically ill online? I could do this in public, as long as I know you CARE and won't reject me. But if i suspect you will reject me, I'll try to hold it in.

Thats what I'm doing I think, I'm better off with rejection, humiliation, in the gutter. Id have to do it then. Its so within my ability to become delta Id prob be happier than any fuckin delta that ever lived (gamma talk!).

Res Ipsa said...


It's not hopeless. When you feel the need to emote do #3 on the list I gave you. You need to start picturing the guy you were when talking the pills and being that guy sober.

Give up the porn, you need some incentive and having a fake fall back isn't going to help.

Unknown said...

Does anyone think it is a bad idea for me to go to the GG paris meet? I dont splurge in public, plus its only a few hours.

Anonymous said...

Well that confirms my theory that gammas are getting sex from old divorced women with kids.

Jay, set aside $1,000 (put it in cash or a separate bank account). Pick a worthy charity to donate it to. Now the next time you use porn and masturbate, mail the money off to that charity.

You're free to keep using that crutch, it'll just cost you $1,000.

Find some way to serve others. There are usually community orgs like YMCA that can help with that. Do something utterly selfless and don't talk about yourself. Just focus on the needs of the people you are serving.

Unknown said...

Does anyone think it is a bad idea for me to go to the GG paris meet?

It's a bad idea to sit around fretting about whether this or that is a bad idea, or weighing whether this or that will "work." If you want to go, go. End of cogitation; now go lift something heavy.

And then, I can actually grow on you, honest!!

And please drop this sad-sack please-like-me-because-I'm-not-so-bad stuff. I know you're trying to balance the self-obsession with self-deprecation, but it doesn't work. It comes off as just another flavor of the same thing, except more fearful. Just be the best man you can be right now, and whether other people like you is none of your business.

Most of all, stop talking about yourself. You've gotten enough advice here to keep you busy for the next 6 months, at least. Stop nattering over the details as an excuse to put off applying it. Go get started.

Markku said...

Is it a good idea? Yes. Is it guaranteed to turn out a pleasant idea? No.

There is a very real chance that you'll go off the rails on a gamma train, though you don't think you will. And you might think afterwards that it would have been more pleasant to just stay home. But it's still a good idea. Any opportunity to have something other to think about than your favorite subject - yourself - is a good idea.

Ron said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ron said...

@Jay Will

Best advice I got on this subject was from Anonymous Conservatives I think it can help you sort things out.

1. Make a few honest, genuine, solid friends. Guys with good hearts that are wiling to roll up sleeves and help each other out.

2. Take up a martial art that involves getting hit in the face.

The first one means you will adopt the personality traits of those guys, your feelings of vulnerability will decrease (and vulnerability is the core of gammatude), also you will have to work really really hard to keep those guys. Real honest genuine men do not allow assholes in their company. They will call you on your shit. If they are truly good people, they'll be patient, but you will have to step it up. Be strong and focused.

The second one means you will experience a great deal of failure. There is no rationalizing an ass kicking. Everyone has two choices when it comes to pain of failure at a challenge. 1) avoid the challenge, 2) endure the pain and learn until you master the challenge and no longer experience the pain of failing at it.

Gammas always take choice #1. Then to avoid the social consequences of challenge avoidance, they bullshit their way around it. That's why they stay gammas, and why they are so irritating.

If you stick with a martial art (at an honest and honorable school that fights) and make a point of sparing with EVERYONE, you will be saying "no" to option #1, which means you will regularly experience the pain of option #2, until your unconcious and conscious mind decides to train your mind and body and reflexes to succeed.

This will also take a long time and you will do everything to avoid it. Don't. Avoidance just drags the process out. I know that from extremely frustrating experience.

I would add "don't get into flame wars, and unless you can comment something you think might be constructive on a blog, avoid commenting."

Good luck.

Ron said...

@Jay Will

I will add that if you stick with a good martial arts school, you will eventually get to a point that you will spar, give a good fight, lose, but still feel a strange sense of total piece and contentment for a few days afterwards.

There is something about sparing with good friends, taking good blows, and giving as good as get, that just makes you feel that everythign will be OK.

Ron said...

@Jay Will

Also, if you havent' done so already, take up heavy weights or (in my case) body weight exercises. Do it regularly. Do it for sanity. Build some muscle champ.

for body weight, I recommend Animal Flow or Convict Conditioning.

Stephen Ward said...

@Jay. yes. fucking go. now buy the necessary tickets so you can't talk yourself out of it later

LP2021 Bank of LP Work in Progress said...

Overall, the fail is the lack of objectivity and bitch-boy coming out, women dont want to hear of or see of bitch boy.

There is no compassion only disgust for men who over react, be objective or leave the scene.

The emotionalism is obnoxious, out of place, and its sad that a man is not his own man, doesn't know himself or some nonsense like that. Awfully sad but I have nothing but contempt for the ill adjusted, its your own undoing.

Unknown said...


I got good points! You'd like me in small doses.

Anonymous said...

I got good points! You'd like me in small doses.

Mr. Will, you have a delete key. If you must type it down, simply delete it before you hit send.

You will only receive so much help before people see that you refuse to take it and stop trying to help. Stop now.

~ Stingray

Anonymous said...

What none of you realise is that the meal in question was dog, beans and chips.

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