Monday, April 14, 2014

Why N lowers MMV

This should suffice to explain to even the most thick-headed woman why men view even moderate-N women as being less marriageable:
Murdered bride Anni Dewani 'told her cousin that husband Shrien was a flop in bed' Uncle claims Anni Dewani 'sent text about honeymoon sex to cousin. It allegedly said: 'Finally did it. Not as good as my previous boyfriends'
Now, obviously there was a lot more going wrong in the Dewani household than Mr. Dewani's inability to live up to the alpha ghosts of the late Mrs. Dewani's past. But the fact that men know women are going to make those comparisons, and quite possibly sabotage their entire marital sex lives over them, presents a sufficient risk to justify nexting a woman who would otherwise be a good marital prospect.


Stg58/Animal Mother said...

He definitely nexted her. Into the next life.

Harambe said...

South Africa: come for the views, stay because you're dead.

T.L. Ciottoli said...

This. Many women just do not get it. Many women who have been riding the carousel just cannot fathom that there are men who roam the earth who DO CARE how many men they've slept with. And that it will kill a relationship before it even gets started. You will NOT be an option, period, to certain men, no matter how beautiful you might be or even how intelligent, fun, or charming you might be. Because you will always, always, always be hiding, always be thinking things, comparing the new one to your numerous past experiences. And that could mean experience over many, many years with only one man, or experience with many men. No matter, you've still got the "experience" no man in his right mind really wants in a woman. It's simple math. Supply increases, the value of the next dick decreases. High N means you really don't mean shit to her, just another 'experience' for her. Even if the hamster desperately tries to tell her, and you, otherwise, they cannot avoid that fact. There are very real spiritual and psychological consequences - damage - to sin and especially sexual sin. This is fact. And the hamster cannot fix it, only put a sentimental, bright-and-happy bandaid on it.

I find that I personally care as much about number of years of 'experience' almost as much a pure N-count. It matters very little to me how you've spent the last 10 years having sex, be it with one or two long-term relationships, or a cum dumpster. Either way, you've got TONS of bedroom experience. Meaning, as seen above, the pressure is on to perform. And even if you do, there is far less of a chance of real, healthy emotional bonding.

Outside of a born-again type conversion and a massive, fundamental paradigm shift in her views and understanding of the power and seriousness of sex, a woman (monogamous or not) who has had so many year of sex outside of marriage cannot really distinguish between YOU being a truly 'special' guy. Their well-developed impulses and cravings for sex are so a part of their subconscious that even they themselves cannot sort it all out as they meet and get to know the next guy. And when the next guy comes along, namely you, the hamsters start working overtime.

Even their N can be misleading, if they ever actually tell you their true N.

Marissa said...

Outside of a born-again type conversion and a massive, fundamental paradigm shift in her views and understanding of the power and seriousness of sex

Even then, the temporal consequences of one's previous sins do not magically disappear. I speak from personal experience and I'm sure other honest women would say so too.

Anonymous said...

Clearly, in the traditional English culture these people came from, a man could feel cheated and be extremely angry if he goes to his wedding night thinking he's married a virgin or girl with little experience, and she throws down like a porn star and then acts bored with him. Crazy Britons.

I find that I personally care as much about number of years of 'experience' almost as much a pure N-count.

Yes. That's what many people don't get about serial monogamy as it's practiced today. A 30-year-old girl could have an N=5 -- low by today's standards -- and yet have been having sex regularly for 12 years with no more than a few short breaks. That's thousands of sex acts, and if she ever had a relationship last more than a few years, hundreds or thousands with a single man, to the point where they probably tried everything she was willing to try, and sex with him became "normal" to her.

If N=5 meant five one-night-stands, that might not be so bad. But nowadays, the main difference between N=5 and N=20 in two girls the same age is that one changed boyfriends more often than the other.

Interestingly, some dating sites ask how long your longest previous relationship was. It's not unusual to see 5-10 years in that spot. Women putting a large number probably think that looks good -- she's able to make a commitment! -- and I'm sure that's how the dating sites intend it. But red-pill guys should see a red flag there: unless she's a widow or was divorced against her will, there's a good sign she's strongly bonded to that man.

Bob said...

The thing is, nowadays they brag, they see it as a good thing to fuck as much as possible.

A girl I recently started talking to, seemed a normal girl, up to the point I teased her a bit about something, and she mentioned a swinging website. I joked that she must know all about that. She sent me a link to her profile..

She was there with descriptions of everything she wanted to experience (and things she had), and pictures of her sucking cock (different colours), being fucked, being cummed on, gangbanged, everything. The site even had lots of "reviews" from other guys (older and younger) detailing how much they enjoyed meeting up with her, how good she sucked cock etc. Needless to say her value plummeted from being an interesting girl, to not even worth a fuck from me.

The depressing thing was, I just pegged her as another slut, but then I got curious and did a lil search of my area and found other girls on there too, that I'd either spoken to, seen or even smiled at in the street. Girls who otherwise would seem normal, sweet, and focused on a relationship (So they would tell you). All with the reviews from the guys (and some girls, as some of them even went to organised parties..).

They can, and do literally order up sex like a pizza now, any day, any time of the week. All they have to do is pop on any site, put in ZERO effort and have guys contacting them, and willing to driver over right to their house from the other side of the country. As the initial girl put it, "why would I do that when I can go on [swingingsite] and get it any time I want".. She apparently "just had some kinks" that she wanted to work out, but she was "different now" apparently.

Quite disheartening looking to the future, that you could end up in a relationship with a sweet girl, who holds a secret past (or present?) of being fucked in every way possible by any number of random guys. And she downright knows that if ANYTHING goes wrong with your relationship, or even if she's just a lil mad at you, she can get it again.

Bob said...

Oh yeah that girl? That slutty profile wasn't anything she was ashamed of or told me out of pure honesty.. She was downright proud of it. It was her past, something she "wanted to do", and if she's "different now" then everyone should apparently respect that and not judge on it..

I've read other stuff of college students literally writing about their experience of going out drinking and then "ending up at home, with my hands against the wall, the guy behind me I didn't even know his name" etc. It's now apparently something to be proud of, cheered and respected..

Anonymous said...

This is interesting to me since it points out another dynamic in the sexual practices. Despite all her "experience", she judges his to be "not as good". So I wonder what makes him good or bad and how she could contribute to that goodness. A marathon runner doesn't do well without some training. Sprinters do better with a little coaching. It really does take two to tango, and almost anyone can learn to dance. So I wonder about her ability as a consumer of sex. Is she really fit to judge or is her own enjoyment totally dependent on the man knowing how to push her buttons while she just accepts the experience? He may be an excellent lover, but her own tastes have become so jaded that even her old lovers would no longer qualify.

Anonymous said...

It was her past, something she "wanted to do", and if she's "different now" then everyone should apparently respect that and not judge on it.

A big part of the problem is that girls have been taught that the moment they decide to "move on" from the fun stage of life to the grown-up stage, they can have a come-to-Jesus moment (with or without the Jesus) and the past is wiped clean. Nothing she's done before matters, except to the extent that it makes her more interesting. She's a "new person" (she'll often use that exact phrase), and any man who brings up her past is just too insecure to handle her.

Amazingly, these same people also believe that if your parents didn't hold you enough when you were a baby, or some teacher fondled you once when you were seven, that can do serious damage to your psyche that may linger decades later and require years of therapy and medication.

And it never occurs to them that there's any contradiction between these beliefs.

Bike Bubba said...

Yes, high N is a bad thing, but this seems to be a textbook case of how NOT to form a relationship. Credible allegations that the man is homosexual, that the woman had not exactly been living up to the standards of Indian society, family apparently is A-OK with sharing intimate details (were they ALL PUAs at heart?), nobody figures out that neither is really attracted to the other......really, this is the kind of thing that arranged marriage was designed to avoid.

Doom said...

Actually, I see it almost in reverse. If they know what they've got they tend to cling. And I really, truly, despise clingers. Especially when it is just for greed of something I could give or take. Sex is fine, I guess. But it's not to die, or live, for. It's more the idea. I don't like sharing, past or present. Women are whores. But if they aren't just, and purely, my whore, at this point, I have even less interest in them. What I really want to know is what else can she offer. Good sex I can make, dishes and laundry, and more importantly children, not so much.

But, that's me. Not even sure I believe in all the alpha, beta, delta stuff. It doesn't work out, exactly, fully, always, completely, from what I have seen. If it is sort of like smoke, which suggest there might be fire somewhere near all that hot hair. Bleh.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Nothing extraordinary about this story. Indian men are notorious betas.

Men should understand that women talk. If you're good in bed and a player, this can work to your advantage.

Anonymous said...

Amazingly, these same people also believe that if your parents didn't hold you enough when you were a baby, or some teacher fondled you once when you were seven, that can do serious damage to your psyche that may linger decades later and require years of therapy and medication.

And it never occurs to them that there's any contradiction between these beliefs.

The past is definitive when they don't want to be held accountable for their present actions, but of no account whatsoever when they don't want to be held accountable for their past actions. Like everything - and everyone - else to these people, it's only relevant to the extent it's useful to them.

There's a word for that, I've seen it used around here before...

Trust said...

@LBF: " Men should understand that women talk. If you're good in bed and a player, this can work to your advantage."

Yup. Once when I was maybe 27, I nailed best friends on the same night. When the first one left, she called her friend to say she received the best tongue fuq of her life, and her best friend came over and initiated. Not knowing about the phone call, but knowing they would talk, I told her that I already had sex that day. She said "oh I heard, why do you think I'm here?"

Roissy says fuq her good. He isn't just talking about the immediately benefits, but word of mouth advertising for more options.

Revelation Means Hope said...

vashine, there is a significant different between N of 1 or 2, over many years, and riding the carousel. Huge difference.
She showed loyalty. It is likely that over time the sex in the relationship became boring, which is how her hamster will permanently and retroactively imbed as the way their sex life was from the very beginning. It is one of the features of the female brain. The only red flag would be if she has a former lover who was very alpha and the relationship filled with drama, and she got dumped.

The oxytocin and other bonding hormones get so diluted by multiple N, that she is nearly impossible to fully bond to you.

Look at the biblical case of Ruth - married for 10 years. 10 years! And yet she fully bonded with Boaz and ended up having King David (and ultimately Jesus Christ) as a descendant.

I'd say that N must be 3 or less for any hope of a relationship/marriage lasting. With 0 or 1 being best, and 2 or 3 only acceptable if her MMV is extremely high on the other metrics.

Anonymous said...

@ cail: "Amazingly, these same people also believe that if your parents didn't hold you enough when you were a baby, or some teacher fondled you once when you were seven, that can do serious damage to your psyche that may linger decades later and require years of therapy and medication."

The same also goes for that "creepy" guy at the office who makes her feel uncomfortable or the dongle joke she overhears at the tech conference.

A random dude brushes up against her on the subway, and it's "Trigger Warning"'s required for life, but having gallons of spooge forced down her throat by dozens of nameless men is empowering.


Laguna Beach Fogey said...

word of mouth advertising for more options.

I have a couple of personal stories along these lines that I'll write about soon.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

I want to add, the Indian chick who was murdered is pretty hot, IMO, and I'm generally not into subcon women. But this story occurred in Cape Town, where I lived briefly, and in my experience the Indian girls in Cape Town are really attractive in ways unlike their sisters in the US and England.

T.L. Ciottoli said...


Appreciate the honesty. Good to know.


Agreed. Number of years in the sack matters a hell of a lot to me, and I’m assuming a lot to many other men as well. Having lived with another man for any long period of time, especially outside of marriage, to me is a huge red flag. Acting married, going through all the experiences of married life, but being deluded into thinking you’re not ‘married’. No, you are, just not mature enough to realize you’re acting married but just not naming it as such.


Good perspective, agreed that it can show loyalty and that bonding is not necessarily an issue even after one long term, sexually active relationship. I’m not sure it always does show loyalty though. I think it can be a sign of insecurity as well, or of straight up abuse/deception. Girls can use men for all sorts of reasons. “I realized later that the last fours years of our relationship I wasn’t really in love with him anymore.” This from a girl who spent 6 years sleeping with that man. Clearly a beta first-boyfriend type. She had no problem immediately beginning her next relationship. So while the commitment might have been there, it was for all the wrong reasons, and kept hidden from the man whose years she wasted. Meanwhile, for all she knows, he’s still crushed by it. She shows no signs of remorse at having strung him along and dropping “I love you too” bombs on him for four years. None at all. All justified in her mind. Hamster at work.

Anonymous said...

I don't see how this explanation doesn't apply to male n count.

Revelation Means Hope said...

vashine, that is just the female mind. Have you ever met a woman who seriously, with 100% sincerity, felt more than a smidgen of remorse for breaking the heart of a beta? The only ones I've met who did, mostly were putting on a show for their social circle.

It's just the way it is, no reason to get huffy about it. Women are not men, they experience love differently, and as previous posts here have explained, don't have nearly the same level of empathy of men.

Retrenched said...

@ vashine, JC

Women basically treat beta males the way alpha males treat women.

Alpha = women love him but he often treats them like dirt
Beta = he loves women but they often treat him like dirt

A woman in love acts a lot like a beta male, while an alpha male will often treat his girlfriends the same way a woman treats her beta orbiters.

Retrenched said...


Yeah, you can usually tell how much she liked it [or not] by whether or not her friends try to get you to fuck them.

Trust said...

Men like sex and will screw sluts to have sex, but they don't like sluts and don't care to marry them.

Women like chivalry and will marry white knights to receive chivalry, but don't much like white knights and don't care to have sex with them.

Remember men, if women perceive it to be in their best interest, they can tell you they love you, screw you senseless, take a vow to you in a cburch in front of God and 500 people, and not be attracted to you or care much about you.

Bike Bubba said...

I'm with Laguna Beach Fogey on the victim here. Very pretty, and what a shame that three lives are being wasted as a result of this stupidity.

Tom Kratman said...

Let me suggest an exception to this and why I think it's an exception. Men almost universally, with women of some experience, play 20 questions, which is to say, ask an infinity of sexual questions about prior experience. There are all kinds of reasons for it, from vicarious porn to seeking reassurance there we're, somehow, special to simply punishing her. But there's a big exception there we almost never ask about, prior husbands. I surmise that this is because, while a prior boyfriend got something for free and so is in some kind of competition with us, the ex or late husband paid - and I mean it just like this - full fair market value, and so there is no real chance of being outdone in the "Am I special" stakes, in advance, by an ex or late husband. There's an odd corrolary to this, too, that I used t see in the form of GIs who married hookers, typically Columbian (not Panamanian, Latin girls usually don't hook near home), or Korean (not much Korean anymore, the business there has been taken over by Russians) or Vietnamese or German hookers. And all that 5000 plus miles of dick doesn't bother the men. Why? Full fair market value was paid, and none of the clients, anymore than the late or ex-husbands, have a lead in the "Am I special" stakes.

T.L. Ciottoli said...

Another reason why GI's marry hookers... is because they're GIs. Dumb as shit, naive and fresh-faced, many feel extremely lucky to be getting exotic pussy (and bragging about it to all their dumb as shit, fellow 19 year-old GIs), and have zero defenses against the full court press of third world women who promise a lifetime of wild sex, foot rubs, homecooked meals, and "take cah a u baybeee". And they either come from such a messed up, valueless background themselves they have virtually no moral, spiritual, nor common sense warning signals going off in their head. They have very little going on in their heads outside of processing booze, seeking pussy, and getting to the next paycheck so they can process more booze and seek more pussy.

They are sitting ducks for those girls. Fish in a barrel. And we subsidize it all with taxes.

Tom Kratman said...

It's really not about why they do, which is, I agree, pretty much because they're GIs, with everything that entails.* I address only why it doesn't bother them, in a way a previously loose-moralled non-hooker girlfriend might (almost certainly would, actually) bother them.

*That said, I know of at least one very much not dumb and not particularly young infantryman (GT was around 148, IIRC), in 4/10 Infantry, in Panama, in 77, who fell for and intended to marry a very beautiful, statuesque Colombian hooker. When I looked at him like he was nuts, his answer was something very like, "What's to be jealous of? They all paid fair market value."

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