Sunday, February 23, 2014

Chivalry is dead, ladies

You killed it. It's dead. You can vote and you can work and you can divorce now, so shut the hell up and stop expecting men to protect you, provide for you, or even bothering to lift a finger for you. You wanted "equality" and you got it. So, stop whining about it already:
Has anyone ever helped pop my bag up into the overhead compartment? Nope. Have I seen any other woman helped? Nope. This week, an engineer in his 50s just stood there in the aisle, his hands clasped, as I played Olympic weight-lifting with my suitcase right in front of him. Just stood there, looking intently at the sticky carpet. Probably afraid to chip a nail or something.

Has the women's liberation movement really scared the bejesus out of men this much? When did it become chivalrous to steadfastly look away and not bother to help? If a 6am flight is anything to go by, you'd think the concept of a gentleman was well and truly dead.

I promise you, I won't get angry or defensive or give you attitude, I'll in fact be super-grateful and flash you an extra-big smile despite the lack of sleep.

Which brings me to the final dismount. Even before the seatbelt sign goes off, the jackets get put on, the suitcases get territorially placed in the aisle, and the competitive rush to get off that plane begins.

Of course, I'm left to struggle with my own bag. It's not that I expect help, it's just the harshness of it all I find a bit surprising.
I do not help single women in any circumstance in which I wouldn't help a man. I do always help mothers with young children, which can be a little amusing on those occasions when you find yourself standing on a train with a stroller and a baby while the mother is on the platform wrestling with her other kids, very much hoping that the train doesn't pull away before she gets on board.

But I don't help other men stow their luggage, so why on Earth would I help some perfectly healthy young woman who professes to be not only strong and independent, but my equal?

As Instapundit correctly noted: "Chivalry was a system, which imposed behavioral obligations on women as well as on men. Women were happy to cast their obligations off, yet seem perennially surprised that men haven’t stayed exactly the same."

Ray Rice is the perfect image of equality in action. Based on the police summons of both the Baltimore running back and his fiance, his fiance hit him and Rice promptly hit her right back. Is that what feminists wanted? Because that's what they got, and they damn well deserve it too.

Ideologies have consequences.


Markku said...

It isn't dead enough yet.

Matamoros said...

I took my son to the shoe store, found a pair of shoes and went over to the chairs so he could try them on. He remembered he needed a sock, or whatever they are called, as he didn’t have socks on, and went to get one. He sat the shoe box on the chair and ran to get one while I stood beside it to show it was claimed.
A woman with a maybe 8 year old daughter came up, picked up the shoe box and threw it on the floor. She didn’t drop it, she threw it down directly in front of me. I looked at her and asked, “What are you doing?” She looked at me and said she was going to use the chair. I said, “No you aren’t, it is claimed.” She made some remark about needing it for her daughter.
I said again that it was claimed, but if she could do it quickly I wouldn’t mind. She huffed up and said, “I don’t have to do it quickly, I can take as much time as I want.” I said, “Fine”, and sat down in the chair.
She looked at me and said, “You’re really going to do that. I can’t believe you are doing that.” Then she snarls at me, “You’re a dick!” My initial emotion was to say something back, but then I realized that, yes, by God I am a man and dick. So I looked at her, smiled, and said, “Yes, I am. Thank you!”
She was a bit taken aback, and then out comes, “What ever happened to women and children first?”
I just looked at her and said, “You feminists killed it.”
She stomped off, my son came back, and the shoes fit.” I saw the woman trying to tell off one of the store employees, and just laughed as I went by.

Unknown said...

Was the employee a man?

Matamoros said...

Yes, actually it was a Black guy. He just stood there, listened to her rant, and most likely as most store employees would, apologized to her. Definitely didn't say anything to me.

Akulkis said...

To be fair, the authoress's name is Katarina Kroslakova ... the use of a matronymic last name indicates that she was born in Russia or Ukriane, and therefore most likely grew up in a land where chivalric principles are still observed (and where feminism is mostly despised -- as one Russian in Rostov-on-Don woman once said to me "feminism is for unsatisfactory women."

Now, having said that... if she was Born in Australia (where the article is published), the U.S., Canada, or the U.K, o then yes, chiding her would not only be acceptable, but in fact, proper.

But I'll give a Russian woman a break, because, they still know how to, and do, act like LADIES.

Dexter said...

I promise you, I won't get angry or defensive or give you attitude

Uh huh. I have certainly gotten attitude from women I've offered to help. That's among the reasons I don't do it.

And did you ever think of asking him nicely instead of standing there expecting him to leap into action automatically?

8to12 said...


1) She moved to Australia as a young child (4 I believe).

2) She recently married and retained her maiden name rather than take her husband's name.

Point #2 should tell you all you need to know about whether or not she is a modern feminist and her attitude toward traditional sex roles.

8to12 said...


Exactly right. Every man has experienced:

1) The feminist b***h who lambastes you for holding the door or performing some act of common courtesy.

2) Performed some act of common courtesy only to be accused to being a creepy guy trying to hit on her.

OK, not every guy has experienced #2, just the non-apex alphas (in other words the vast majority of men). It is ironic that she complains about men hitting on her instead of being chivalrous and helping her (and then going away).

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Quite right, Vox. These days I've become rather chippy--even downright rude on occasion--with the ladies. And all I get from them in return are shy smiles and laughs. Treat them with a rough hand and they respond.

I love how she uses "fear" to describe men's behaviour, a typical liberal line of attack. "Has the women's liberation movement really scared the bejesus out of men this much?" No, it's not fear, you thick bitch; it's contempt.

Sadly, there are white knights and manginas out there who probably still act in accordance with this outdated system. I don't see how they can. Chivalry today is like unilateral disarmament, leaving the side deprived of its weapons at a disadvantage.

In racial matters, too, we see white men acting out of selfless, altruistic, universalist motives, which allows other races who do not subscribe to these foolish notions to manipulate, take advantage of, and claim victory over the white man every time.

Martin said...

LBF:- " No, it's not fear, you thick bitch; it's contempt."
It's not even that, it's indifference. I was brought up to be a Gentleman, much good has it done me, but I stopped doing things for female strangers after I'd realised that the demands women place on men for assistance are entirely non-reciprocal.
Having said that, I still adhere to basic decency i.e not slamming the door shut on someone directly behind me or helping an elderly person of either sex.

Anonymous said...

Her last sentence really says it all. "Harshness" is just part of every day life for most of humanity. The only people who can escape harshness are those who are rich enough to hire others to buffer them from it, and women who convince a man (or men) to protect them from it. Because she was an attractive woman, she's been protected from life's ordinary little harshnesses for as long as she can remember. Must be nice.

And then we wonder why they blow up perfectly good marriages and vote for fantastic political schemes. It's because life really is a fairy tale for them; they have no connection to reality.

Matamoros said...

Akulkis said... To be fair, the authoress's name is Katarina Kroslakova ... the use of a matronymic last name indicates that she was born in Russia or Ukriane

That is a good assumption, except according to Opus on Dalrock's site she is Czech born - "Although born Czech she has been an Australian since she was four which is about thirty years ago."

So she doesn't make the cut for the pass that perhaps a Russian or Ukrainian girl would get.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Notice how she assumes that her "extra-big smile" is sufficient reward for helping her with the bag. Bitch, if you were "super-grateful" you'd be helping me with my, er, "bag."

Maybe we should be easy on her. After all, she "is one of Australia's most prominent and passionate advocates for culture and the arts."





Kim said...

Thank goodness I live in North Texas, where opening a door for a woman (of any age) gets you a smile and a "Thank you!" from the recipient. On the other hand, when I'm engaged in competition in the workplace, I give no quarter to male or female -- I treat them both as adversaries to conquer. The men accept this in the spirit of the thing; the womyns squeal about "bullying" or similar nonsense.
As for helping women with their bags on a plane, it depends on the situaiton. A granny or mother with kids will get help from me; a suited executive gets nada. Ditto seats offered on buses or trains.

Anonymous said...

I don't see why this issue has to be about chivalry. I don't know about other women, but I wouldn't expect a man to help me with my luggage and more than I would expect a woman to help me. My thought is, no one has the moral obligation to help me, but if someone does take the initiative, I would reward them with some form of appreciation. I don't expect a man to open the door for me, but if they do, I make sure to say thank you, and I think all ladies should. They shouldn't expect it nor should they freak out and go off on a rant about how she can hold the door for herself.

I would also never hit a man without expect to be hit back, and I don't understand why any woman would see it any other way. She shouldn't have hit him if she didn't want to be hit back. So if your question is, is this what feminists wants...I would say, yes. It is. But that doesn't give men an excuse to go around hitting women for whatever reason. Violence should be a punishable act no matter who you are.

So I don't care if chivalry is dead. I don't expect to be helped, although it's nice when a person helps out a fellow person. Women can also help men in times of struggle as well.

New Hombre said...

Given current climate, I think the guidance to only help a woman if you would help a man in the same circumstance is spot on. Because equality.

Bob said...

Silly bints don't realise that such is a trade, not a privilege, or even duty (where there's no trade).

If they want to be men so much then they can deal with situations like men, either on their own, or politely ask for assistance, and be appreciative if that is given, or understanding if rejected. Men don't just stand around looking around expecting someone to walk up and sort everything for them.

Anonymous said...

I remember being on a fully loaded plane (it was known to be fully loaded) before the body scanning, where some female executive (suit) type had taken it upon herself to place her things across both seats - as if I would see her stuff on my seat and give up, switch planes, etc. She was rude when I sat down and hardly could be bothered to get up and move her stuff, which she eventually did quite slowly and grudgingly.

She left her coffee wedged in my pocket, so I signaled for the clearly gay black flight attendant and gave him the "trash" left in my chair.

She also got huffy that no one wanted to help her with a bag. Gee, I wonder why?

GB said...

A friend and I were sitting in a parking lot smoking when we saw three female baristas walk by carrying jumper cables. They pulled a second car up and opened the hood to jump it. They seemed to know what they were doing so we left them alone.

After a few minutes they were looking in their car Manuals and staring at the engines in confusion. They also kept shooting furtive glances our way but didn't ask us for help, so we kept ignoring them. They could have called someone they knew for help, or used their smartphones to google it, but they just kept looking at us. It was clear they wanted our help but just weren't willing to ask. They had no plan, they just expected male assistance to materialize on demand.

We finished our smoke break and left.

Anonymous said...

I see this line of commetn a lot in the manosphere, and part of me is sympathetic and part of me is confused.

I hate all things liberal and always have, whether feminist or otherwise. Yet part of conservatism as I always understood was to stand against the ugliness of the world, to model good behavior, to accept reality as it is, which is to say a world where men are physically much stronger than women. We could behave like ghetto blacks, I suppose, not work, terorrize women and others, and generally destroy the world around us while getting a short-term advantage of damaged good ghetto p***y, but why would we want that? Is that what our purpose is on life, nihilstically to take advantage of a self-destructive civilization.

I don't agree with unilateral disarmament, particularly in realms like the academy or work where women deign to compete and also rig the game in their favor. But in every day life? Why not be a "witness" for conservative, old world values. They make the world a better, more peaceful, more civilized place. It's not any real effort to do so. Yes some may snarl or complain of their ability to do things for themselves. But so what. You are living by right standards even though the world has gone mad. You are a beacon of proper behavior for when this newfangled system self-destructs, as it already to some extent has.

Even in the age of chivalry, it was understood there was a distinction of common trash and "ladies," and such a distinction should apply today. But in dealing with strangers in the already-stressful world of airline travel and other forced interaction with strangers, why not raise a flag for decency and civility. Not everyone will appreciate it, but those of the saving remnant will, and you willl have the consolation of not having allowed this damaged culture to damage you.

Retrenched said...

"Bring back chivalry" = "Give us all the benefits of patriarchy with none of the costs"

Rantor said...

BJ, too funny.

I have a slightly different take on this. I am sick of the overhead bin fights on the airlines. I am a bit old fashioned, I check my heavy luggage and carry nothing more than an attaché on the plane. My wife travels with a small gym bag, her purse in it. As for anyone who can't lift their bag into the overhead, push it under your seat or check it.

Yes I realize the airlines want you to do this to free up cargo space beneath, so what. Unless your so poor you can't afford to fly with a suitcase (join the frequent flyer corps and you can usually get that comped somehow too.) it's just nerve racking and irritating to have a person dropping their 40 pound bag on my head because they can't carry their own case. (See previous post about fat people who don't work out).

Fly light or check the bag...

Rantor said...

Also ladies, if you need assistance, ask politely... That almost always works. Looking expectantly or glaring doesn't impress. I can't recall ever not helping someone, man or woman, who politely asked for assistance.

I don't see that our Czechstralian critic ever asked for assistance. To paraphrase U2 in numb, Don't expect, request.

Akulkis said...


In that case, I stand corrected. She deserves every bit of ridicule which comes her way.

rycamor said...

I fly a lot these days, so I get to see it all the time. My favorite is to watch the young womyn struggle to lift their overstuffed bags into place and then say "Good job", the way you'd compliment a kid who just got their first A. Suddenly they're all blushes and smiles. Steady, old man...

Anonymous said...


One of these members of your remnant of those holding out for traditional manners would say "Please" and "Thank you". The imperious glare or furtive glance is not something anyone should be slave to - in none of the situations described does the woman ever ask for help. If she doesn't ask, then what is anyone to do but assume she thinks she can handle it, and why would you want to take away her agency?

Markku said...

Why not be a "witness" for conservative, old world values.

Because they don't see it as a surprising display of old world values, but as a man performing the service that the woman is entitled to, due to being the creature of superior worth.

yukonyon said...

Thankfully, my wife carries herself like a lady. I'm only happy to respond in like kind.

Revelation Means Hope said...

Someone commenting above is a quaint. You must be very very frustrated at every election as you realize that you will never get a victory, and have to settle for moderate holding actions against the tide of progressivism.

I'm afraid your old conservative values are no longer valued in today's society, at least in the big cities.

Of course you should retain civility. But I'll be laughing quietly at those sad sacks who rush to help some ball-crushing feminist just because she's a woman, and who will be standing there scratching their heads as she crushes them underfoot later at the baggage claim area.

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Dexter said...

I fly a lot these days, so I get to see it all the time. My favorite is to watch the young womyn struggle to lift their overstuffed bags into place and then say "Good job", the way you'd compliment a kid who just got their first A.

These are the same people who insist on dragging their wheeled bag down the aisle even though it gets hung up on every seat. Pick the fscking thing up and carry it - faster for you, faster for everyone behind you.

Aquinas Dad said...

Let me get back on this horse.
'Chivalry: Bravery in war; warfare as an art; a body of knights'
'Courtesy: The showing of politeness in one's attitude and behavior toward others.'
Chivalry is based upon the seven Knightly Virtues and the Code of Chivalry.
Defending the Catholic Church is in the Code of Chivalry. Helping a woman with her bag isn't.
A man born into the nobility, peerage, or gentry *might* be expected to be chivalrous. The middle manager from Dubuque is not.
What this woman is discussing and what many of the commenters are discussing has nothing to do with chivalry - it is about courtesy.
Yes, courtesy is dead. And the article is a prime example of why. Courtesy requires that someone seeking assistance be humble.

Anonymous said...

@Aquinas Dad

Absolutely right, and, recall - courtesy used to be one of the feminine virtues, and so, by calling it "chivalry" and not "courtesy", they can accomplish the dodge and make it a man's problem.

Exemplary women: a record of feminine virtues and achievements. Abridged
By William Henry Davenport Adams

"Upon those features of character which may be summed up in the one word courtesy, it is scarcely necessary to dwell. The world is accustomed to regard it as almost the distinctive excellence of woman. Her natural delicacy, her greater of sympathy her instinctive refinement, make its cultivation easier to woman than to man Yet what a grace it is How wonderful is its social influence How largely does it operate!" (p. 151)

Women don't like the word "courtesy" because it puts onus on them and requires both parties to be courteous.

Gunnarvoncowtown von Cowtown said...

"Chivalry was a system, which imposed behavioral obligations on women....."

I know someone in the 'Sphere has addressed this in depth, but I can't remember whom, where or when? Can anyone flesh this out? Thanks.

Tommy Hass said...

"Her last sentence really says it all. "Harshness" is just part of every day life for most of humanity. The only people who can escape harshness are those who are rich enough to hire others to buffer them from it, and women who convince a man (or men) to protect them from it. Because she was an attractive woman, she's been protected from life's ordinary little harshnesses for as long as she can remember. Must be nice.

And then we wonder why they blow up perfectly good marriages and vote for fantastic political schemes. It's because life really is a fairy tale for them; they have no connection to reality."

Brilliant post.

Anonymous said...

I've gotten in the habit of letting women do things whenever I see them struggling physically with something. It's amusing to watch most of the time. When they bitch that I'm not helping they get 2x that back as I explain equality to them once again. Even if women ask me to lift heavy things for them, I generally loudly proclaim how wonderful equality is as I lift something they couldn't.

What should be more embarrassing to these women, is the things I'm asked to lift for them are as heavy as things that women on the frontier would have lifted and thrown without a second thought. The modern woman is rank with weakness.

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