Saturday, October 26, 2013

Why gammas deny SMV

It's not hard to understand why women, especially aging women, deny the existence of SMV. As PJ O'Rourke once described, they dwell in "the lonely Hell of the formerly cute" and the reality is simply too painful for them to acknowledge. But why do men deny it, especially when it is supposedly so favorable to them that it has even been theorized that older, sexually disfavored men concocted it in order to make them feel better about themselves... well, that does smack of psychological projection, doesn't it.

There are several reasons. One gentleman on Twitter pointed out that PZ Myers's inability to understand that the units of Rollo's graph were nothing more than percentages of an individual's maximal SMV smacked of mild autism. And that surely plays a part, since Myers falls right in the middle between neurotypical and Asperger's Syndrome.

"I’ll have you know, though, that I took the test and scored a 24, an “average math contest winner.” You need a 32 to suggest Asperger’s, and a 15 is the average. So there. I don’t have Asperger’s, I’m just cruel and insensitive."

And, as the SMV discussion has shown, handicapped when it comes to understanding fairly simple concepts that everyone else has no trouble grasping. When you see a man who is otherwise intelligent getting lost in the irrelevant details and completely failing to see the obvious, and that man happens to be an atheist, you can be reasonably confident that he is not neurotypical.

But that's not the only reason. SMV is painful to low-ranking men who have not come to terms with their low status. The more delusional the Gamma, the less he is able to accept the reality that his intelligence, his sensitivity, and his willingess to place women on pedestals do not make him more attractive to the opposite sex. And no amount of logic or observation will suffice to make him admit that a five year-old girl has a lower SMV than a 25 year-old woman, that a Victoria's Secret model has a higher SMV than the average woman, or that he is not, in fact, as desirable as the high school quarterback, the college frat guy, or the corporate vice-president, all of whom he sees as idiots who aren't half the man he believes himself to be.

Notice how they reliably attempt to denigrate the attractiveness of men who are observably much more successful with women than they are.  This is the Gamma male's version of women threatening not to have sex with men whose views they dislike. PZ writes: "Let’s not even start on the ethics of judging people’s worth by the sole parameter of their sexual attractiveness. By that criterion, the author of that graph is a negative ten, and should be shoved in the hole beneath the outhouse and ignored for the rest of his days."

Perhaps PZ is right. However, the fact is that women don't decide who will, and who will not, be having sex with them on the basis of that criterion. They actually make their decisions based on the criteria that PZ describes as "spinning around in circles chasing your own tail until you fall over and vomit".

However, the reality is that the tails "these pick-up artists" are chasing are not their own. And no one would listen to Roissy, or Roosh, or Rollo, or me, if our advice didn't work. There is a vast amount of empirical evidence in support of our hypotheses, and it is remarkably unscientific of Mr. Myers to ignore it.

The rejection of the SMV concept is simply one aspect of the Gamma Delusion Bubble in which most gammas dwell. Because he's good enough just the way he is, and if the world doesn't recognize that, well, it's the world's loss!


Anonymous said...

I gotta admit, I'm not entirely without sympathy for gammas, but dear God are they tiresome to deal with. Yeah, they were dealt a bad hand at life's genetic poker table; they start out usually as unattractive, physically average to below-average, possessing a mid-wit's intelligence, and if left unchecked, grow to be convinced of their own rightness, no matter how much evidence is stacked against them. Because of that they rarely if ever develop any social skills beyond that of your average young teenager. Combine that with middle-age, a mild case of social autism, atheism, and a raging progressivism, and you have a perfect storm of delusion. PZ Myers might as well be a brick wall for all the good reason and argumentation will do for him.

Anonymous said...

I suspect that he'd have no trouble understanding the graph if it suggested something he agreed with, so that part is probably willful blindness. I think it's more the second thing: a gamma can't imagine himself becoming alpha. He's spent his whole life seeing alphas as stupid, arrogant, lucky jerks who are unlike him in every way, and he's worked hard to convince himself that he's glad about that. So becoming more alpha would be like trading with the enemy. Even putting on an act and pretending to be alpha for one evening, as a test to see what happens, would feel like treason against himself. It's just not an option.

So he stays deep in denial: girls are attracted to those guys for superficial reasons or because they're broken or because they're being fooled. He just needs to keep being himself and the right girl will come along and appreciate him all the more because he didn't play that game. He builds the pedestal even higher and shinier, and doubles-down on what he thinks of as nice-guy, non-jerk behavior, just sure that it'll pay off someday.

And part of the problem is that sometimes it seems to. Most guys, even serious gammas, will get a girlfriend or a wife at some point. It'll probably be because she saw some alpha traits in him at the time. Maybe she worked under him and he showed confidence in his career; maybe he kept ignoring her because he had oneitis for another girl and she misread that as confidence and indifference. For whatever reason, she was attracted to him, but he assumes she was attracted to his beta qualities -- which she may enjoy in the relationship, but which had nothing to do with the attraction. So he ramps up those qualities even further, almost guaranteeing that she will lose the tingle and bounce, and ensuring that he'll be in even worse shape for attracting the next one.

tz said...

SMV is worldly status, but that is all PZ can have. It used to be we at least paid lip service to eternal values, christian or pagan virtues. Harris tried, crashed and burned trying to say there is something higher but without assuming objective value. So the best he could do is a pastiche of great work melodies (think "hooked on classics") connected by atonal bridges. Or a collage of cutouts from great paintings rendered abstract.

Maybe "Evolutionary" or "Reproductive" MV, would make it clearer.

I believe that Natural Law, Christ, the Church and Scripture has different - though not completely different values (e.g. strength and beauty are stil good). And those values lead to life, abundant and eternal.

But we are talking SMV, not "Motherhood" or "Fatherhood" family market value. The parents are often better at evaluating that than the kids. (Probably college degrees too). It is still valued by a few.

PZ and his wife might ask the question this way - if the spouse died, and I needed to go on the open market, how easily and what kind of new hookup (or even spouse) could I obtain?

tz said...

I don't think gayness, guzzling, or gammadom is inborn, but learned and behaviors of choice. You get lots of emotional support in the warren, but little sense of true accomplishment. The society markets gamma-hood better than the tobacco companies did cigarettes. Because excellence and exceptionalism is a big inequality, it can't be lauded. When you get rewarded for dreaming and taking risks, you get more alphas.

Stickwick Stapers said...

SMV is worldly status, but that is all PZ can have.

This is just one of many tragedies of the de-Christianization of any society. When Christendom was Christendom, the emphasis could be on other sorts of virtues besides the ability to physically attract the opposite sex; people who ranked lower in SMV could at least strive to stand out positively in other ways and reap rewards from it. And how ironic that many of those who would benefit societally from living in a more Christian culture are the ones who are so opposed to it. If Mr. Gamma ever comes to recognize the reality of SMV, he might realize that his humanist philosophy is far more cruel to women and low-ranking men than he believes Christianity to be.

kh123 said...

"Because he's good enough just the way he is, and if the world doesn't recognize that, well, it's the world's loss! "

Ahh, spoken like a true mom.

A prog biologist trying to wiggle away from the philosophical petard that's detonated on him is no easy task, considering it's science or, dare we say it, the only Weltanschaung that he (PZ) will accept. Fitness, Mr Myers. Do the rules of reality change when they suddenly don't suit you or others?

But in a way, given the speaker, the display makes sense: The world's intrinsically indifferent and capricious, with the lone prog white knight standing the gap to defend the sick, downtrodden, and womens from the evil, evil realities of... Nature.

Barring some form of selfish grandstanding for the little guy or (as VD points out) a delusional desire for his own self-perceived SMV, this shaking of the fist at the sky could indicate a recognition on PZ's part that, ultimately, not all of life is boiled down to flesh and bone, matter and chance. Inconsistent and hypocritical, sure; but it's not the worst of failings.

Res Ipsa said...

"all of whom he sees as idiots who aren't half the man he believes himself to be."

Therein lies the problem. Quite often they ARE the better men according to the standard they have been taught. Women don't want the "better man", they want the man that is better than the one their girlfriend has. The standard of what women want and what makes a "good man" isn't the same. Women want the bad boy. The key is to be a man first and "the better man" after she has the hots for you.

I counseled a young man of my acquaintance on this very thing last month. He is soon to get his third stripe in the air force and he has been struggling with his lack of success in keeping a girl friend despite the fact that he is a handsome young man and a devout Christian, who only dates church girls. He complained that he kept getting "friend zoned" then the girls would go after some other lessor guy.

I advised him to make a couple of changes. First; in his job he works on a combination of classified, boring, and geek/tech stuff. Like a good boy he doesn't talk about the secret stuff, (its not that secret), but he loves to go on about geeky boring crap, because he can. I told him to change his approach when he is asked what he does. Now he knows to reply that: "its complicated", "we're not supposed to talk about some of it" or "I don't like to talk about what I do" when asked about his job.

So far that is working wonders.

Second, he qualifies the girls. He now interviews them. He knows to walk, or look like he is going to walk, at the first sign of female disinterest. He actually told a girl who started to brush him off, "that's ok, I wasn't that into you". When she pursued him, he said, "there are too many girls on the girl tree, see ya", and walked away. The other females in his social circle see him differently now.

Third, he is (doing a better job, still has a ways to go) not letting himself be used as a beta obiter. At least he's not in any new chick harems. He doesn't like to come clean with me on what's going on with some of his old "friend zoned relationships". I think his new oversees deployment is doing more to break those off than he is. What can I say? It's a process. The more he see's the girls interest go up when he is aloof, the easier I think it will be for him.

Chicks want what chicks want. Give it to them. As long as you're the one calling the tune, they will dance to your music, or they will get left behind. If you truly are the better man, don't be afraid for them to loose out.

Res Ipsa said...

"SMV is worldly status"


SMV is observable fact. It has nothing to do with faith. A Christian virgin man or women, who is committed to maintain God's sexual standards has a optimum SMV. Every single person can maximize their personal traits that make them desirable to the opposite sex. SMV is a concept that describes the ranking. EVERYONE has it.

The single most alpha thing I have seen written on this blog since Vox started it was written by a christian. Vox polled the readers to see what their N was. The poll was one of the few times anonymous comments were encouraged. The reason was to keep the N count honest.

One person signed his name. Farmer Tom N=1 Wife N=1. That is what Christian Alpha looks like.

SMV is just a way of quantifying an idea. You don't have to be banging every co-ed that lets you in order to have a high SMV in your social circle.

tz said...

Who first, Scalzi or PZ - of course the former would have his pinkshirt with gamma rabbit.

Ever Light said...

It really comes down to HONESTY. Gammas are not stupid they know what's up and they know what they need to do which is improve as a man. SMV is all too real for them but they would rather bask in the comfort of denial than the "harsh" reality of how things really are in the SMP. I have nothing negative to say about gammas. Just hope they would learn to accept reality just a little bit by bit in baby steps if they are willing to because the fact of the matter is MOST men can improve to a status of high beta or alpha if they apply themselves. Gammas are intelligent and introspective and talented in various subjects but many are "effeminate" in how they present themselves and talk.

If only these guys were around more "conducing" masculine social environments and a father-led household gammas would not be as bad "white knights" and "manginas" we have today. They just need the right influences of manhood to be exposed too and live in for a little. But they let their insecurity, jealousy and "effeminate behavior" get them uncomfortable and intimated around masculine guys. We really need a "rites of passage" or "men's club" in real life outside the inter-web so guys can teach about the Red Pill, Game and the KJV Holy Bible. Where guys can compete against each other various contests to prove their manhood, masculinity and develop as men. Since the manosphere/androsphere is quite a small community in the vastness of the World Wide Web, organizing like-minded people together in appropriate locations to get things started as a "real life community" is where this needs to get started.

Vox, great post analyzing the inner psyche of the disillusioned gamma male. I really hope PZ comes to his senses and hopefully improves it gets sad hearing cases like this. It really gets old. These men HAVE a chance to improve; they just need a little "coach" to help force them up along from the gamma-hamsterization.....

Ever Light said...

Also......Which biblical character from the KJV Holy Bible do you think best fits the "gamma male" vibe?

1. (Make sure you are "born again" dear sinner)

2. (ONLY read the King James Version Holy Bible--God's Word; any other bible is a corrupt, perverse, agendacized text meant to confuse people. God, Lord Jesus Christ ONLY wrote ONE BOOK and that is the KJV. That's the claim, it's true, research to know for yourself but it's all done for you.)

3. (Jonathan Edwards' "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" sermon....very serious about Hell....which is a REAL PLACE after you die. Put your faith in Jesus Christ to forgive your sins as a guilty sinner and you can go to Heaven instead of Hell.)



Unknown said...

Its not the VP, the frat boy or the quarter back that I don't understand. Its the drug addicted unemployed parasite, I don't understand.

Whiskey said...

Drug addict s physically dangerous, semi outlaw, wounded etc. Bad boy I can save him vibe. Educated professional women go nuts for it.

Anonymous said...

When an AFC clings to the mental schemas that make up an AFC mindset it requires a constant need for affirmation and reinforcement, particularly in light of their glaring lack of verifiable success with women while clinging to, and behaving in accordance with the mindset. AFCs are crabs in a barrel – once one get to the top to climb out another drags him back in. The AFC needs other AFCs to affirm his blatantly obvious lack of success. He needs other AFCs to tell him, “don’t worry just be yourself” or “she’s just not a quality woman because she can’t see how great a guy you are.”

So when an AFC finally does get a second date and then finally does get laid it becomes the ultimate validation for his mindset. “See, you just have to be a nice guy and the right ONE really does come along.” This is when the self-righteous phase begins and he can begin telling his Game / PUA friends that he’s “getting some” now without all the Positive Masculinity claptrap. In actuality he rationalizes away all of the conditions that lead up to him getting the girlfriend and the fundamental flaw that he’s settling for a woman “who’d fuck him”, but this doesn’t stop him from claiming a moral highground. His long wait is over and he’s finally hit paydirt.

serry said...

"So when an AFC finally does get a second date and then finally does get laid it becomes the ultimate validation for his mindset. “See, you just have to be a nice guy and the right ONE really does come along.” This is when the self-righteous phase begins and he can begin telling his Game / PUA friends that he’s “getting some” now without all the Positive Masculinity claptrap. In actuality he rationalizes away all of the conditions that lead up to him getting the girlfriend and the fundamental flaw that he’s settling for a woman “who’d fuck him”, but this doesn’t stop him from claiming a moral highground. His long wait is over and he’s finally hit paydirt."

I sense something going on above with the outlining of events. Isn't it supposed to be that these guys just don't get laid period as a rule? Yet you are pointing out that they do (at some stage, with some girl, but still: if sex is the end all be all, then they did score after all) which undeniably is immensely validating for "gammas" as a group; while at the same time you are putting them down by dissing their rationalizations etc. I suspect that you on a deep level really want them to actually succeed because you probably where one of them at some stage in your past and still have an emotional investment in what outcome they get in regards to sex and girlfriends. So you are siding with them while trying to make it sound like you don't. Kinda cute.

Anonymous said...

Serry, almost every guy gets laid at some point, for a lot of different reasons. He gets drunk enough to loosen up and be cocky, while a girl gets drunk enough to think he looks good. He shows some leadership qualities at work and a girl is attracted to those. A friend throws him a pity fuck. A girl sleeps with him to get revenge on her cheating boyfriend. He says something that just happens to trigger a girl's memory of the lost alpha she's been pining for, and she tries to replace him.

There are all kinds of reasons why even most gammas aren't virgins, but most of them have to do with him being in the right place at the right time, and not anything special about him. That's why he calls it "getting lucky." He's had sex, but he has no ability to get sex when he wants it or with whom he wants it.

The difference between the AFC who gets lucky and the student of Game who gets his first positive response -- even if it's just a phone number -- is in what is being reinforced. The Game student learns that Game works and he needs to study it further. As Rollo said, the AFC learns that he needs to keep being a nice guy and orbiting the girl he has a crush on so he'll be in her line of sight when lightning strikes again.

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