Monday, April 29, 2013

Alpha Mail: is it already over?

A reader who understandably wishes to remain anonymous requests advice:
I am hoping you can give me some advice or point me in the right direction. My wife and I are having trouble and she is about to move out. There is no other man or anything like that. The marriage just deteriorated for both of us.

I just read your post, "Maxim 2: make her jealous" and it just slapped me hard in the face that in the 3 years of marriage I forgot almost every damn thing that I learned about game that I used to win her in the first place. I was an alpha dog fucking her and ever other girl I could find. Now, I am some boring predictable husband that simply provides her a safe comfortable live. Worse, I thought it was enough. Shame on me.

I want to save the marriage if I can because I certainly like her well enough and she is gorgeous but mostly because of the financial ruin it will wreck on me. She doesn't work and I will pay a fortune for her and our child if she leaves, which will seriously cramp my style when finding another girl. If I do the things she needs I think we would both be happy.

She hasn't left yet and it is like she is waiting for me to react a certain way. I think my game hasn't been terrible in the last few days in trying to keep her to stay - but I don't think it has been great either. I didn't ask her to stay or do anything pathetic. Instead, I bought lots of very nice clothes to up my wardrobe, started making myself scarce, and showing no signs that it bothered me that she is leaving. I told her that I wanted the same thing, that I already felt free and the idea of hunting again made me feel alive. I also told her that I am going to start dating a girl from work (which is true if I want to).  But, I really want to say, "I remember what I need to do and I am going to take you upstairs and show you right now".

I think I have the inner game mostly right but I am not sure of the best immediate tactical steps I need to do to get her to stay so I can do for her what she needs. It may be too late and if that is the case then so be it. But I am going to try. I am concerned that any affection will simply signal AFC and any indifference will simply tell her that it is over and she should go. I am thinking that maybe it is best to let her go and then be the alpha dog to get her back. Not sure - as I have no experience here. If I could, I would be the first to leave but I can't because I own the house and there are kids involved.

I would appreciate any advice you can give.
First, let me point out that Maxim 2 is Roissy's advice, not mine. Second, while I'm loathe to intrude upon what is more properly Athol's territory, I would say that before this man attempts anything, he must first ascertain if his wife is already engaging in an affair.  It sounds to me as if that is at least a possibility, even if she denies that is the case.

Third, I think he has to stop dancing around the issues. If he really wants to say something, he should say it. How can he worry about showing affection being too AFC when he's afraid to say what he really thinks, and tell her what he really wants? There can be a fine line between Indifference Game and actively driving a woman away.

He's obviously running the MAP, which is necessary, but in this case apparently insufficient.  If she's really so unconcerned that she doesn't care if he's dating other women or not, it's already over and his attempts to win her back are likely to be futile.


Anonymous said...

If she's talking about moving out rather than asking him to leave, I'd put money on there being another man.

-- Petruchio

Josh said...

If she moves out, where is she moving, and who's paying for it? Also, is she planning on taking the kid?

Ioweenie said...

If she's initiating this, absolutely insist the kids are your priority - cause she's forgotten they are hers. Do not let her do anything to get the upper hand on you when it comes to them. Fight for them tooth and nail. You say you know what she wants? What is it? If it's just that you've become "boring," that can change but there is a certain amount of tedium that comes with marriage and child-rearing. There are ways to address that without breaking up your children's home. Again, insist they are the priority and if you haven't been behaving as if they are, start. If there is no adultery (absolutely do not commit it and push to see if she's engaged in any, including emotional/fantasy, online), neither of you should be wimpy babies and bale. Marriage isn't about only doing what you feel like doing (these words are for her too). There comes a time when you "feel" good because you're doing the right things.

If there are serious problems - substance abuse/physical abuse monetary irresponsibility - open your eyes and do due diligence to fix these issues.

Hang in there. My husband and I have persevered through 23 years of difficult times. I can say I respect and love him more for sticking it out, for not giving up and moving on. That you are the primary provider is important. Assert that without guilting her or making her feel less than. In the most trying of times, I objectified my husband and realized he'd be snagged up in a second if free and that would take away from our child. Men who are good earnings are good catches. You already know it. I wouldn't flaunt it, but keep asserting that the hard work you are doing is for this family, this wife, these kids and that nobody will do for them as you do. Be a leader.

Without knowing her complaints, it's hard to provide more insight.

Markku said...

PSA on behalf of everyone who proofreads Vox's books:

Loathe is the verb, loath is the adjective. Just like breathe is the verb, and breath is... Ok, the analogy breaks down there, but a noun is still closer to an adjective than a verb.

tz said...

I always say at the first hint the man has to find the most agressive evil anti-woman divorce lawyer NOW! and do exactly what the lawyer recommends even if you want to reconcile. Otherwise you might come home to an empty house with the divorce papers on the kitchen table - if that is going to happen it should be your move not hers.

You will be an alpha if you make it clear that if she leaves, she will just have her clothes and a few kitchen appliances and furniture to take with her and you will keep the house, kids, and the cash. That it will be ugly and that the battle will make her lose in any case, but you would prefer her to stay and go from there.

Right now it doesn't seem that she cares to stay, so you appearing not to care may be sending a mixed message.

Anonymous said...

I'd talk to a lawyer and let her leave, even push it. There is another man, probably. That's why she wants freedom fromthe kids too. If she just wanted away from him, she'd want the house and kids for financial reasons.

Worst thing he can do is try to keep her. She'll respect him less. Get with a lawyer and use her leaving to help keep the house and kids.

Anonymous said...

She doesn't need to move out to end her marriage. She can make him leave, and be the proud owner of a house he is still paying for. She only needs to move out to have sex with another man without the kids getting in the way.

GAHCindy said...

She's got another man. Unless there is a lot of abuse or anger he's leaving out of the story, I doubt she's just wandering off on her own. I've never seen a woman just up and leave a merely boring relationship without either another man or another woman (and a shiny new victim status!) to go with it.

Big Bill said...

Talk to the lawyer ASAP. Talk to all the other lawyers in town who are good as well. Make them take some money from you. Establish a lawyer/client relationship with them an give them the juicy details so they cannot take your wife as a client. She will be forced to use a loser attorney. Also, if she is talking divorce and one of the law firms says it "has a conflict" it likely means she is already talking to them about divorce and is a couple steps ahead of you. This may be your first heads up.

Generally speaking, you ned to financially prepare a year in advance before the marriage has "broken down". Once it has broken down, any funds transfers or other money diddling can be reversed (or charged to you for your share). Therefore hide the money as soon as possible. Even if you get back together you need to hide your money since she may pull this crap again in a year or so.

Don't buy the "i don't have a boyfriend on the side" stuff. She may well have one that you don't know about. Find out. If she loses her replacement gravy train she may stop pressing for a divorce. If HE has a wife, you may want to tell him you will tell his wife and kid and employer, and put an ad in the newspaper unless he gets lost.

Your state may have an action for "alienation of affection" in which you sue him for $$$ beause he destroyed your marriage by shtuping your wife. Your lawyer will know more.

Right now you are in damage control mode. You are beyond restoring the relationship. Get things back under your control and you can assert your alphahood without the everpresent fear of robbery and theft of your children.

You need a year of "peaceful" living under one roof to start shifting your cash around and hiding it from your wife. There are all kinds of scams you can run to get your finances under control and away from her. Remember, the more money/debt she runs up now, the higher the child support and alimony she can get.

i know a guy who sold his house while the wifey and he were on vacation. Consider not paying the mortgage, hiding the dunning notices and letting the bank take it back. That is tactical nuke city, but it would prevent her from keeping you paying for a house you know you are going to lose.

A doctor lady I know got some advice 3 years before she filed and was able to set up separate retirement accounts that would shield her retirement assets from her beta house hubby.

Don't fsck around. You are way beyond Game and into Damage Control.

Once you have her under your thumb and she knows it she may rediscover your alpha attractiveness and your refusal to put up with her sh!t. that combined with the fact that she is a lazy leech may give her the tingles and things may work out with you on top and in clear and undeniable control.

Anonymous said...

Strange that a man doesn't consider quitting his job before a divorce so that he enters negotiations equally poor. I guess it is because the courts will always hold the man responsible for earning an income while a woman's income is considered inconsequential.

Crispy said...

I, too, am loath to correct Vox on his grammar.

His prescription seems okay, though. Following through with the M.A.P. is probably a good course.

GAHCindy said...

Just to be perfectly safe and not slander anybody, I should probably say "I could be wrong" before I say what I think. ;-)

Also, if you get a woman to marry you by acting like someone you're not, with strengths you don't really have, the mask is bound to slip off after marriage. Did he really think he was going to keep her?

Old Harry said...

Data is everything. What you don't know can cause you to make a fatal mistake. Do not stalk her. That is the best way to get a restraining order thrown at you. Retain a lawyer and get a recommendation for a private investigator. If nothing is found, never tell her what you've done. Otherwise use the information to marginalize her and get the kids.

Also, the comment about dating the woman at work didn't reflect confidence, indifference or aloofness. It screamed desperation.

Daniel said...

You are regular loathario, Markku.

Daniel said...

Also, the comment about dating the woman at work didn't reflect confidence, indifference or aloofness. It screamed desperation.

Yep. A lot of "alpha dog" fronting going on. The former situational alpha can't rest on his qualified laurels. It is silly to feign indifference about the wife, when it is clear that he wants to keep her.

Alpha "move" is to simply tell her that he wants to keep her. Tell her that what she thinks she is running to is not likely to work out in the long run, and that she will have destroyed a healthy home for her children. If she goes, she needs to go away for good.

Hang onto those kids, get a good and aggressive lawyer, and hope she'll see the light. If she doesn't, too bad for her, but pretending like you don't care to have her around is a good way to inspire her to walk off with the rest of the property while the getting is good.

I hope she comes back to him, and I'm still quite curious how a the marriage "just deteriorated over time."

How much time? And, what, specifically deteriorated?

Anonymous said...

1. It is very possible there is another man. A married woman with a child usually doesn't leave unless there is another man. You need to get to the bottom of that right away.

2. What Big Bill said. Talk to a lawyer, start separating money out. This is damage control mode. If she's about to leave, Game probably won't make her stay.

3. If she's determined to divorce, I'd undertake mutually assured destruction as a mindset. Do not agree to move out. If she wants the divorce, she can move out. Fight for as much child custody as you can get. Do not agree to her having primary residential custody. She might get that; but you did not agree to it. If you can't get primary residential, go for equally shared custody - one week with you, one with her. Make clear that divorce will be all out war that will deplete the marital assets. Do not agree to a settlement that requires you to make ongoing payments like mortgage or car payments, unless the house goes to you or the car you'll be paying on is yours. She will have to take over her car payments. If she wants the house, she will have to buy your half of the equity and take over the payments. Insist that she start working full time. Make sure she gets a taste of what life without you will be like. GIve her half the pile of bills, and make her pay them from her own funds. Default on them if necessary and ruin your joint credit rating. If she has credit cards in her name, give the bills to her and tell her to figure out how they will be paid. Make clear that the marital assets will be wasted and depleted fighting over custody, visitation, and property division.


RC said...

Tell her you want to save the marriage but let her know that if she steps out from under your protection, she is no longer under it. If she leaves, go Galt.

The advice you received about lawyer-shopping is good. Get the top five in your area conflicted out, then engage the best. If you've got the resources, keep the top two engaged on the matter. There is a reason why every law firm in a large corporation's home town does work for the corporation.

Stats for kids of divorce are horrible. Save it if you can but work to keep the kids if at all possible. This is especially important for girls, since an ex-wife's future lovers are the most common source of sexual abuse. A girl in a home with a step dad or boyfriend is 40 times more likely to be abused than a girl in her own daddy's home.

Peregrine John said...

It's worth remembering that a demonstration of "what he needs to do" will be worth very little if she isn't turned on by him any more.

eshamus said...


Regarding your 3rd point:

a) consider the fact Wife has not contributed to the asset or wealth accretion in any way. Husband threatening to burn down the house he alone has built is scarcely coercive.

b) Wife never cares if credit rating destroyed. She's not an earner, Husband is. Wife will glom onto an earner to improve status rather than relying on her own credit rating.

c) All obligations are marital obligations. He has no standing to "not agree" to paying off loans, credit cards and other obligations. If a "Findings of Fact" divorce decree assigns certain debts to Wife, they still exist on Husband's credit report. Wife's default shows on Husband's credit report.

I'd suggest the requestor:

1) Stop trying to make her stay. Show her the door. Now. Keep the child(ren), stay in the house, change the locks and evict her. She returns, call the police. Your house, your kids.

2) Hire an attorney. Forget the bozo Internet-expert advice to pay every decent attorney a dollar to spoil the pond for Wife's attorney selection.

3) Commit yourself to the fact this will cost you approximately $30,000.

Having completed steps 1-3, you may now observe you are in the driver's seat, committed to your course of action, and prepared to absorb considerable discomfort to achieve your goal.

What is she prepared to do?

One, recognizing your strengthened position, she'll try to seduce you. She'll promise to change her behavior.

Two, if the first step fails (or even concurrent with that step), she'll attempt vicious napalm fire on your position. She may accuse you of child abuse, hiding money, abusing her, drugs, neglect, etc. Weather that storm. She'll rail then subside, storm and retreat. If you hold fast, you'll spend about $30k, she'll disappear, drive her attorney(s) crazy, constantly postpone court hearings, and eventually give up. You'll have the house, both car payments (but one car), half your 401k, and full custody of your child(ren).


Ioweenie said...

Peregrine John: It's worth remembering that a demonstration of "what he needs to do" will be worth very little if she isn't turned on by him any more.

Bull crap. This is NO excuse for leaving a marriage. Taking the upper hand - as per much of the advice given about finding out her other "interest" (i.e., is she cheating, intending to cheat) - and then letting her get a taste of life without you are good steps. Sex goes through seasons and can return to a dead marriage, better than ever/better than before. Like love, it's not just a feeling, it's a choice to invest in it. If you've been a slug per Athol's admonitions, do what needs to be done. A lag in sexual attraction/arousal is no excuse for leaving a marriage. NO ONE would stay married if validation for leaving was the flame went out. If you or your wife accept this, then you're both lazy. You can't change her, but you can implement Athol's suggestions. Again, insist that you care about the kids more than she as you're willing to do whatever to keep them in an intact home. Then fight for that.

John Williams said...

Long time ago, about the time I was realizing that there was a red pill, but didn't know it's name, Dr. Laura made the point that almost all women only leave one relationship when they have one to replace it.

Her point was that by the time a guy has been told that his gf/wife is moving out, he's already been replaced.

Mina said...

no woman leaves without one waiting in the wings.

since she hasn't left yet, maybe what she's waiting for is for the hubs to drag her to the bedroom by the hair and give her a good old fashioned bent over his knee spanking.

yes, that would be my professional recommendation.

Anonymous said...

My advice? File a restraining order against her for spousal/child abuse,retain a lawyer, and get ready to go over the divorce court waterfall.

If you don't do it to her first, she will absolutely do it to you without the slightest bit of remorse.

Peregrine John said...

Way to apply a comment to the wrong words, Ioweenie! No. "What I need to do" in context and in the original article refers to taking her to bed for a good shagging. Unless the rest of things are moving in the right direction already, a "just do her" strategy, let alone Mina's notion, will not have the intended effect.

I've seen it over and over, so there's little point trying to convince me of your theory over the evidence of my own lying eyes.

In any case, do try to avoid putting words in my mouth, especially ones that are obviously stupid.

Anonymous said...

I'd bet on the "other guy" scenario and suggest he proceed with the lawyer, hired surveillance plan. The bridegroom established early on that the lady likes alpha dick and promptly forgot that there are lots of alphas out there, each one equipped with a dick.

Ioweenie said...

Peregrine John: In any case, do try to avoid putting words in my mouth, especially ones that are obviously stupid.

Not sure what "obviously stupid" words I put in your mouth, but here's the point: if a woman isn't turned on by her husband anymore, their sex life and marriage doesn't have to be over. One good romp might not convince her to stay, but since the concerned husband thought taking his wife to the bedroom might be an effective means of reminding her of his value (and he seems to be wrestling with his own indifference), it doesn't seem like a bad move. As you suggest, maybe not the only move.

Not sure what evidence you've gained by your own lying eyes that has convinced you "my theory" is wrong, my theory being, sex gone cold can grow hot again. My experience/evidence is that being "turned on" is not a prerequisite to regain a good sexual foundation of a marriage. The main thing that changed in my marriage for our sex life to improve was my attitude.

Reminds me of a joke. An older man and woman were driving down the road. They passed a young couple in a car, the young woman was sitting up close next to the young man who was driving. The older woman said to her husband, "Oh look honey. Isn't that sweet. Remember when we used to be so young in love and I used to sit next to you?" The man smiled, nodded, and said, "I haven't moved."

Old Harry said...

I neglected to bring up GF Dad's #1 rule regarding affairs: By the time you think your spouse is screwing around, they probably are.

This rule will probably not fit into many people's views on Philippians 4 or 1 Corinthians 13, but it does follow Jesus' admonition to be as wise as serpents and as meek as doves.

VryeDenker said...

This is a great lesson in why one should fix that tiny hole in the radiator before you lose all the coolant and your engine overheats and seizes tighter than a feminist's sphincter.

Old Harry said...

And remember, StopLeak doesn't fix the radiator. It just plugs the hole.

Desert Cat said...

If plugging the hole stops the leak and prevents the engine from seizing up, well then get right on that plugging!

Peregrine John said...

Sorry, Ioweenie, I'd been misquoted a record number of times yesterday and started off pissy. My apologies for a pointless flash of anger. It's clearly stupid to leave a marriage just because someone's libido is lackluster, is what I meant. On the other hand, insisting on sex with someone who's dry enough to hurt from it will never get an immediate good reaction, and can only be useful in the long haul if other remedies are also in play. In spite of endless medical and scientific (not to mention anecdotal) support for it, low libido people very often resist the simple remedy of having more sex to get to wanting more sex. Seen it personally, and have had tales of woe from both sexes regarding it.

Not to say that a good rogering isn't a good reminder, but there'd best be more to the cure if a cure is to be effected.

FWIW, I tell that joke fairly frequently. You would not believe the number of women who entirely miss the point. Or maybe you would believe, come to think of it.

Old Harry said...

Desert Cat said... If plugging the hole stops the leak and prevents the engine from seizing up, well then get right on that plugging!

I think you missed my point. If a woman is prone to wander, once you game her back, you probably still have a woman prone to wander. You have to evaluate whether it's worth being eternally vigilant and whether you can maintain game for the duration. Sometimes a new radiator is the easiest, long term solution.

Nate said...

" But, I really want to say, "I remember what I need to do and I am going to take you upstairs and show you right now"."

I'm late to the party. Hope I'm not to late.

Dude. DO THIS. If she wanted to leave she'd be gone already.

This part that I just quoted???


Anonymous said...

GF Dad: Sometimes a new radiator is the easiest, long term solution.

Yes, but this is always best done on one's own schedule, and on one's own terms to the greatest extent possible. If plugging the hole gives one the respite necessary to plan and act in such a way as to reduce the divorce-raping, then get to plugging.

Ioweenie said...

Peregrine John.

No problem. I've had my quick reactions here before and I probably reacted too emotionally to your comment as well.

I love that joke - today. Was told to me when I was in my teens by my first boyfriend. I got it but was still so full of pride I wouldn't dare even crack a smile. So, yeah, I believe that women may miss the point - and still others are loathe to acknowledge the point (as was I), so play dumb.

Can't say often enough how thankful I am for second chances and do overs.

Old Harry said...

Anonymous said, " . If plugging the hole gives one the respite necessary to plan and act in such a way as to reduce the divorce-raping, then get to plugging."

I'll go along with that. Use game as a strategic weapon before pulling out the nukes. Nice.

Anonymous said...

I am the man who wrote the letter. One important factor I left out is that I met her when I worked in Russia. I dated her six months and then she came back with me. I don't think she is having an affair (I couldn't find evidence) and I don't think she is using me. She has a much different mentality. I was also the first to suggest she moves out because of her treatment of my girls from my first marriage. Then she ran with it.

But, doesn't really matter now. Shit has gone completely south. I have been falsely arrested, cant contact her or go to the house, and cant see my kid. Saturday morning we signed a lease for a new place for her. I was being a bit afc because it hurt really really bad - unbearably. I wasn't pathetic asking her to stay. But I wasn't so tough either. It was obvious that I was in a lot of pain.

Then something weird happened. I was just watching TV and she was upstairs putting our daughter to bed. She then comes down and sits on the couch and starts a skype chat. I asked her to go in one of the many other rooms and she refused. She was trying to provoke. I muttered that she was a bitch (maybe one of 10 times I called her that in the 6 years I have known her) and then unplugged the internet and sat back down hoping she would now leave. She exploded like I have never seen and jumps on me to attack me. She is trying to punch me and rip my shirt off. I calmly just hold her wrists and she starts screaming that she is going to call the police. I said "why? You are attacking". She gets up and chucks a child toy and hits me in the face. I then jump up grab her arms and hold down to the couch. I said, "I have never hit you. You don't hit me.". I let her up, she calls the cops, and they arrest me. I said to the cops, "She attacked!! why are you arresting me".

I don't think this was a custody type ploy as she was off the charts angry. I dont know what it was.

So, I have a criminal attorney and a family law attorney and it is a big fucking expensive mess. I have a court appearance next Thursday and I hope it is dropped and was just a "cops arrested the guy cause they have to take someone" kind of thing.

The worst part is that I truly treated her well. Maybe I lost the pua edge I very much needed but I was a good man - and not in some pathetic type of way. I never tried to buy her or anything like that. I don't know.

So, I am shacked up at a friend's house 1 hour away from my home. I am closing on the house I cant go to on friday.

The weird part is I am not mad at her. I think she is simply trying to survive in this world and there is no evil intent on her part. I don't think she is trying to take advantage of me. Heck, there is $50k in our checking account since this happened and she hasn't touch it. I could be wrong though on her using me.

I must admit that I feel a devastating sense of loss at losing her. I know that I can find other girls easily enough. It doesn't seem to help at the moment. Our relationship started in a crazy little bar in Siberia Russia almost 6 years ago when I picked her up while her boyfriend went to the bathroom (ah, the days I felt like a true pua). The story is now dead and it is as painful as f.

I don't have any options at the moment as everything rests on this court case. So, I cant even start planning a new future. However, I do like the one part of me that kicked in and instead of wallowing in pain I instinctively said to myself, "make yourself a better man." I bought even more nice clothes, joined the gym, started playing tennis 3 nights a week, joined a co-ed lacrosse team, focused on my russian lessons. etc.

Thanks so much for the advice.

Nate said...

Of course the cops arrested you. Standard procedure. Domestic Violence call... someone has to go... they always take the man.

They don't give a damn what actually happened.

fucking cops.

Nate said...

by the way... why did you leave the whole "mistreating your kids" part out the first time?

that greatly effects the advice we gave.

I know I for one would've told you to kick her ass out right then and there and that would've saved you a ton of trouble.

SarahsDaughter said...

What was it that Groucho Marx said:, "I don't want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as a member?"

If this man did not protect his children from his wife, she will know he can't/won't protect her either. It's a sadistic shit test of sorts. I don't know there's much that can restore this marriage (since there's no mention of either of them being Christian).

Anonymous said...

"by the way... why did you leave the whole "mistreating your kids" part out the first time?"

It was because I sent an unsolicited email for advice to Vox and thus didn't want to write a huge story. I didn't know at the time he would post it.

The mistreating is not like beating or anything. It is much more subtle. She did shove my daughter once though. 3 weeks ago, my wife, her daughter, our daughter, and me were going to Chicago for vacation. My other 2 daughters wanted to go and I told me wife, "Awesome A and B want to come too!" She said, "no, they would ruin the trip for me". I then found out she doesn't like them that much. She is also really harsh with our 2 year old and almost 100% of the time the 2 year old prefers to be held by me when we are both with her. She is never abusive but very harsh in dressing her, changing her, washing her, etc. There were times I heard the baby screaming (beyond normal) and went to see what was going on and she would be washing the baby and she couldn't see that she was terrorizing the child and that the crying had went from normal to truly frightened. She has a weird inability to feel compassion. In those cases I forced her to stop and I did protect the child. She went ballistic then and I said, "So be it. You will stop". Given her explosion on Saturday (which I had never fully witnessed before), I now how worries what will happen when that anger comes when she is around the baby.

I did kick her out but then kind of relented. It has huge financial implications. She doesn't work and doesn't speak english well yet. We speak Russian at home. So, I thought kicking her out meant 100% support from me and a lot less time with our daughter. The loss of time with my daughter was one of the biggest things. When my first marriage blew up I didnt miss my wife. But, the loss of my children 50% of the time was devastating. It has been over 6 years and it still hurts when they are not with me.

I stayed up most of the night and went over all the ways I messed up over the last 3 years of marriage and the list is long. I forgot all the rules. Two things really hit me the most. First, I forgot that all the shit I learned about game is 100% true and there are not women who are an exception. I fell into the trap that "this relationship is different". Devastating sin. Second, I became a "kept man". When I met her I was fucking lots of girls. When I first met her I would sometimes fuck a different girl in my apartment who would leave minutes before my wife came over (got caught once by her). Before she arrived in the U.S. (she had to wait awhile to follow me back due to legal shit) I was seeing girls from work and still practicing game. I remember I was talking to a female colleague and she said, "Why is that girl eye raping you?" I look over and there is this cute girl with a look of pure hunger staring at me. Well, no one is eye raping me now and I do not have a backup plan now that I don't have access to that sweet body of my wife.

But, maybe all this is good because it made me realize what I had become and what I can become again. It concerns me though that I am now 44 and my finances will be a huge mess for a long time to come. What the hell am I going to do, invite a girl over for ramen noodles?

To the girls, I worry about them terribly and I have been an awesome father to all of them. My relationship to my 14 and 16 year old is super tight. I will fight for full custody of the 2 yr old and take what I can get but there isn't much I can do at the moment beyond that. It will be in the court's hands and at the moment I need to wait.

Dee said...

Anonymous wrote:

"One important factor I left out is that I met her when I worked in Russia. I dated her six months and then she came back with me. I don't think she is having an affair (I couldn't find evidence) and I don't think she is using me."

She has already used you. Marrying you was her ticket out of Siberian Russia. The fact that she's ending it so soon is very suspicious.

She stayed long enough--5 1/2 years--to get re-settled and have a baby. A baby that could earn her financial support from you until the child is 18. Your only way out is to be awarded custody of this child. Considering that she was cruel to your other children and she attacked you without provocation, you might have a chance.

Mind you, I normally tell people to try and work it out rather than divorce. However, in this case, it sounds like she's already planning to end it and there might not be anything you can do to stop her. You may only be able to minimize the damage she causes. Furthermore, if there's child abuse involved you need to get the kids away from her until you decide she's safe to have around, if ever.

What exactly did she do to the children from your first marriage? Can you prove it in court? Can you send her to jail for it or at least prove she's an unfit mother?

This could help you not only with your court case on Thursday, but also with obtaining custody of your daughter, if it comes to that. If you can, find an attorney who specializes in helping men who've been falsely accused of abuse. You need to build a case that this woman is unstable. She harmed your kids. Then she attacked you after you told her to move out for being a bad step-mom.

"I don't think this was a custody type ploy as she was off the charts angry. I dont know what it was."

Either she's batshit crazy and throwing you a nuclear-class shit test, or this is a premeditated, cold-hearted custody ploy. Either way, you need to win this.

Oh yeah, and re-think the part about her not cheating. Now that she's moved out, you might re-open that investigation. If she wasn't cheating before, she might start now that she thinks she has you on the ropes. Out-of-control, batshit crazy people aren't known for being chaste. Neither are cold-hearted users.

"The weird part is I am not mad at her. I think she is simply trying to survive in this world and there is no evil intent on her part. I don't think she is trying to take advantage of me."

This is painful to read. It's like watching someone who's about to get flattened by a bus and there's nothing you can do to help.

Wake up. She could destroy you in divorce court. Don't make excuses for her. She doesn't deserve it. She hurt your children and attacked you. No excuses for that.

Whatever happens, hang in there and keep fighting. I know of one case where it took 3 years for a man to get custody of the kids from his drug-addicted, abusive ex-wife. Good finally won in the end, but it was a struggle. A struggle he would have lost if he'd given up or backed down in any way.

Good luck and stay strong.

Dee said...

Anonymous wrote:

"What the hell am I going to do, invite a girl over for ramen noodles?"

If you end up single again, don't despair.

If you have tight enough game, women will be happy with ramen-- and maybe a bag of skittles.

Anonymous said...

I retained a top criminal lawyer today and he called my wife. Cost $3000 for what is going to turn out to be 2 hours work. I could have used the money for a nice vacation with my 2 daughters. My lawyer said it was hard to fully understand her because her English is so bad but he said it sounds like she is not going to pursue anything and that she feels pretty terrible and wants contact with me. We have to wait until next Wednesday to clear it up, at which point I will see her for the first time after her attack and false charge. I am not sure how I will feel but I am not letting her off with any forgiveness to ease her guilt (I don't want to and even if I did I would look like the weakest guy who ever lived). She has lost my care and protection. Out of the sheer reality of the situation I will have to pay for her to move out plus expenses. Sucks, but that is the way it is.

"She has already used you. Marrying you was her ticket out of Siberian Russia. The fact that she's ending it so soon is very suspicious."

I don't believe that is true. Before I met her she was with a very rich man and she simply took off and decided to live in poverty instead. I saw the emails of him begging for her to come back when I snooped once. She did still ask him for money though when she got desperate. The other factor is that she has spent about zero of my money. She has never been a user. That being said, with a Russian woman it is always going to be a cold calculation given their harsh lives. Love plays very little role when you are simply trying to live. You must know that going in, even if you are a Russian man living in Russia.

"Out-of-control, batshit crazy people aren't known for being chaste."

But they are known for insanely good sex, which is what I got and what I am going to miss. And it will drive me nuts knowing she will be giving it to someone else.

"The weird part is I am not mad at her. I think she is simply trying to survive in this world and there is no evil intent on her part. I don't think she is trying to take advantage of me.....This is painful to read. It's like watching someone who's about to get flattened by a bus and there's nothing you can do to help."

I understand that. But I hate being cynical with anyone - men or women. I like to believe in the good in people and I know that means I get crushed now and then. So be it.

Ioweenie said...

In which water finds its level.

"Out-of-control, batshit crazy people aren't known for being chaste."

But they are known for insanely good sex, which is what I got and what I am going to miss. And it will drive me nuts knowing she will be giving it to someone else.

Anonymous said...

"But they are known for insanely good sex, which is what I got and what I am going to miss. And it will drive me nuts knowing she will be giving it to someone else."


At least you have your priorities straight. (J/K)

If it makes you feel better, I know of one guy who I distanced myself from after he mentioned to me that he'd been married three times, divorced three times...and met all three wives at bars. He's forking over really good child support for a kid with the third turd. The other one is on his third marriage and at least got the pre-nup in this time. Got taken for $150k in the last divorce. Admits to wanting this current marriage to work, "because the sex is so great". Fair enough. Don't complain to me about her loser teenage boys and her inability to keep a good house and home then.

If nothing else, you did reap what you sowed. Pat yoruself on the back for that. You weren't the player you thought while she wasn't the angelic, loyal wife you thought.

Tie goes to...her.

the league of baldheaded men said...

Russian-girl game! You've got to get all "eastern promises" on them....
"the stars are like a birthright to me..."

Anonymous said...

This is an old thread but I will add an update for completeness and I will add an update in a couple of months.

I saw her for the first time in 15 days. I had absolutely zero contact with her during that time and I used that time to my advantage to completely transform myself - I swear to god it was like one of those TV show transformations. I exercised and dieted like crazy. I don't know the exact amount I lost but it was a lot. I also had the resident fashion goddess at work take me shopping. My shitty baggy clothes were replaced by tight and trendy clothes, complete with bracelet and necklace. I looked 25 pounds lighter. I also replaced my shitty $1k car with an insanely hot 2008 BMW M3 with only 8,500 miles on it. All this improved my inner game as I felt more confident and had a bit of swagger in me when I met her that I am sure was picked up on by her.

I practiced my game but I didn't need any of it when I saw her. Since the last time I saw her police were involved, I figured I would just build some comfort to start. Within 90 seconds she just blurts out of nowhere - "I just realized how much I love you". I took this for code of, "I see the attractive man I met 6 years ago". She kept shaking her head every few minutes and said, "I can't believe how good you look". She looked at me with real desire - like she wanted me to take her right there. I hadn't seen her look at me like that for years.

She still ended up moving out during the no contact period but it sounds like she really regrets it and she said she hasn't slept in days and she looked completely worn out. I don't think she was or is seeing anyone but I am a bit less sure of this than before because I notice lots of contact with a new phone number (which I couldnt trace to anyone) and I have no idea how she was able to move the big items like the couch and bed. She said that students from her english language classes helped but that seems odd - who asks someone from school to help move and who accepts?

So, I am about 100% sure she was not using me for money but less sure she is not having an affair. The odds are against it but who knows. Bottom line - if I am interested I am back in the game with my wife. I think I am interested but the violence and anger issues with her would have to be address and I am not sure how to go about that.

Thanks you everyone who commented and special thanks to Vox for posting this and special thanks to Athol whose book gave me a chance to save my marriage and family. Athol also gave me a lot of personal advice via email.

I will update in a couple of months in case anyone is every searching for posts and finds themselves in a similar situation.

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