Wednesday, November 14, 2012

What attracts women

Or rather, what male attributes attract the women who read Athol Kay.  Somehow, those who make similar "scientific" claims never seem to qualify the statement by pointing out that their conclusions are based on the answers of 14 girls studying sociology at the University of Nevada-Las Vegas or whatever.
Physical Fitness is a must and powers a lot of what follows afterward – especially feeding into Sexual Aggression. Personal and Social Dominance are quite closely related… and the bridge between the two of them is Humor, Smarts and Skills.
I'm a little surprised that Facial Attractiveness isn't in the top three.  I would have guessed 1) Fame, 2) Facial Attractiveness, and 3) Physical Fitness.  What male attributes would the women here put in their top three?


taterearl said...

Women still want to be the physically fit man or at least a man who looks like he could still fight off threats is desired.

I would have guessed....1) Confidence, 2) Confidence, and 3) Confidence

Athol Kay said...

Well even if facial attractiveness is a factor, there's not over much you can do about it. But you can work on everything else.

SarahsDaughter said...

1. Not fat
2. Facial attractiveness
3. Looks like he can provide/has money

Shutterbug said...

1: Confidence. Not the fake, blowhard, asshole kind. The kind that is sometimes called "quiet strength." It comes from being tested and kicking ass.

2: Quick wit and a sense of humor that is rooted in high intelligence.

3: Physically fit.

Rock Throwing Peasant said...

Words, words, words.

Cail Corishev said...

This is interesting, but it's not necessarily "what attracts women." It's what men think attracted women to them, and in a few cases, what women think attracted them to men. We already know most women have no idea what attracts them to men, but I'm not sure most men really know either. Even red-pill men may think it was one thing when it was really another. Especially if the man really invested a lot of time and energy into one thing, like getting fit, he will want to think that was the deciding factor.

All I know is that when I learned to be confident and aloof while being 50 pounds overweight and bald, I did about a thousand times better with women than when I was a shy white knight in good shape, younger, with a good head of hair. The women I slept with at 50+ lbs. may tell you I had great shoulders (I do), but I had even better shoulders when I was 18 and fit, and I couldn't get a date then. They were really attracted to my attitude, but if you asked them for a reason, they're going to think of something more tangible than that, like looks or a sense of humor.

I'm not saying fitness doesn't matter, but I suspect it matters more indirectly by giving the man more confidence, or by being the cherry on the sundae that is a confident man she's already drawn to.

Anonymous said...

1. Confidence/dominance/manliness
2. Physical fitness
3. Not ugly

LibertyPortraits said...

I'm sure the factors that attract people depends on the age class involved. Of course fit and handsome 40-somethings will do a lot better with women their age than fit and handsome teenagers, where so many fit and good looking guys abound that girls look for the bad boy factor. It is my suspicion that generally confident and stable but fit older men do better than unattractive bad boy older men, but I could be wrong.

Stingray said...

1) A high level of stoic masculinity
2) Physical fitness
3) A wicked sense of humor

TLM said...

There are no bad boy older men. The mid-40's guy in the 70's cover band, and others are now appropiately considered losers. They failed to make the transition into successful manhood.

Rock Throwing Peasant said...

I hear what you're saying, but I think you're off base. I know enough guys my age (40) that haven't undergone any transition and still attract women.

My friend is a high placed person in a reputable organization. He has significant industry cred on a national level. He makes very good money. Great father. Wife cheated on him with what can only be described as a guido bar-fly (even drives a H3).

On a sad/related note, I tried to introduce him to Red Pill and he flatly rejected it. He even went on to say that women should be pedestalized because they are more Christian (exact words repeated back to me because of a discussion we were having). It blew me away that he could see both our marriages get blown apart by our wives and it not register that the problem is not with the men in the situations. I shrugged and chalked it up to experience for me.

Douchebags/bad boys exist in the 40s and they can pull in women. We can't ascribe what we think women want with what they are actually attracted to.

TLM said...

RTP-We can't ascribe what we think women want with what they are actually attracted to....

No issue here. All my life women have babbled on about how important height is blah, blah, blah. Yet at 5'8" I've almost always dated taller women and married a taller attractive woman. Women are completely FOS when it comes to knowing what they want.

And my older bad boy observation stands. It is easy to spot the mid-40's poser "bad boy". They're always trying too hard and their body language betrays them.

Not K Galt said...

Height and basic structural attractiveness are very important. I notice that AK wove height into fitness. Self-help salesmen always downplay these as they are effectively unchangable and we don't want to turn anyone away from the big top. But shortness and ugliness are huge hurdles, like being overweight for woman. Throw in miserlyness/being poor or some personality disorder on top of those and voilà! You have a lifetime omega w/r/t not-awful women.

For some people, it's not body dysmorphic disorder, it's truth.

Rock Throwing Peasant said...

I think we're probably working off different concepts of bad-boy 40 year olds. I think your concept is more of a poser badass. Mine is a guy who hasn't changed since his 20s. While A are B, not all B are A.

debbs said...

On my first date with my husband I was strongly attracted to him in a way that I had never experienced before. I was sixteen. Five years later we married and 31 years later we're still going (and growing) strong. Maybe it's because he made me laugh. Maybe it's because of his intelligence. Maybe it's because I liked his looks. But, I doubt it was any one of these things because there were certainly other men who met these criteria and I wasn't attracted to them in the same way.

So, any list that I create will be correlated but not necessarily causal. I suspect that I am attracted (or repelled) first and then rationalize why after the fact.

Rollo Tomassi said...

Ask a woman what she finds attractive about a man in the follicular phase of her menstrual cycle and you understand what Alpha traits 'arouse' her sexually.

Ask her what she finds attractive in her luteal phase and you'll understand what she wants from her long term beta provider.

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Anonymous said...

No older bad boys?
I'm sure you can imagine a 40-60yr old biker badass who would just as soon pop your head like a pimple as look at you. Also: high ranking gangster? Badass pimp?

There are lots of older badboys who climbed the badboy ladder and became elite, and if you think they couldn't take your wife given the right circumstances and were so inclined, you're wrong.

TLM said...

You need to stop watching Sons of Anarchy. That sh*t isn't real.

JRL said...

Here's a twist...there are apparently men who literally beg their wives to lead and dominate them on a permanent, ongoing basis. I get the dominatrix kink stuff, but this ain't that.

A women might initially get high off that power dynamic, but the principles of game would predict that she begin to despise her husband and eventually flee the perfect storm of beta.

I defer to those more worldly wise than myself. I admit I was a bit surprised at the scope of the thing.

Ladies, could this dynamic possibly be attractive.

JP (real one) said...

Christian babes dig this kind of verbiage:

Anonymous said...

For initial attraction:

1) Confidence
2) Sense of humor/wit
3) Skills/expertise

Everyone wants an attractive mate, but attraction (for women at least) can come later. It's the attitude that is most important. A man who is in control without being controlling.

Anonymous said...

And I mean it. I talked to enough females to believe that there is no one single explanation which would suit to more that large percentage woman.

I would conjecture that HUman mind, female and male, consists from many different modules, which are not just competing, but even are straight contradictory. For example I think many males have both the urge for adventure and danger, as well as the urge for stability.

All those "mind modules" are biological and they have evolved, though they may involve different stages of our past, and they may as such involve different amount of consciousness.
Finally, some "mind modules" may survive even though they evolved far, far away in the past not because they were good later on, but simply because they were not detrimental.

I'd say the same will have to be true with female attraction to alphas/betas. IN our ancestral past females were not restricted to one strategy, and as such they may have "mind modules" with attraction to different kind of males, those modules competing for attention, with different chances of success depending on female.

First, the animals are quite poor at recognising what is the relation between sex and having the children. Even some primitive tribes are poor at that. Hence, no chance that females are looking for better genes for their children - rather, those who were attracted to some type of male, had children with good genes.

Obviously, "good genes" does not mean "alpha gene", only that in some point of ancestral past children with such genes had larger survival rate.

Second, in our ancestral past children neede constant attention for first few years of life, and studies of primitive tribes showed, that children without support of fathers had poor chances of survival. Now, those "fathers" may not necessarily be real fathers, of course. Meaning that females, who were attracted to beta, tend to have children with greater survival rate. With the obvious attraction of males to similar children (more similar children got more provision), it wouldn't be easy to get a beta to provide for alpha's children. Now we have second "mind module", attraction to betas.

Third, females could pursue diffeernt strategies in their life, they could have one child with beta, second with alpha etc.

All that means that all females claiming that they are attracted to cute betas (even when they are NOT in particular cycle - this claim is based on what, two studies?) are saying the truth. Just at the same time when other say females are attracted to alphas.

It also may mean that both beta males could be cheated on, as well as alpha males - since a females with a children from alpha, will instinctively seek a beta to protect her, and in the past only way to get beta was to get sex. Female won't divorce alpha, but she may still cheat with beta, and this would be also driven by "primitive, subconscious instinct".

This is my pure speculation, of course, but I think grounded in what I know about evolutionary psychology and studies about female/male behavior.

PS: VD, you still have not answered, so I think you admitted your logic was wrong. Good.

VD said...

PS: VD, you still have not answered, so I think you admitted your logic was wrong. Good.

I've done absolutely nothing of the sort. You're completely wrong.

Anonymous said...

I've wrote that "you cannot use logic to convince females that they are inferior, because they won't listen". This was comment directed not at you, but at some other commenters, after I've read several threads in your blog in a row.

In abstract terms "you cannot use X to Y with females, because of Z". You deduced "females cannot use X". It's like "you cannot use maths to convince females that they should not f* the bad boys" and you would conclude "females can't use math".

Now, I am insisting on that because a) you put a whole blog entry on that b) I value your judgment more than that of average Joe. I would appreciate either how you could decide that I have wrote "females can't use logic", or admit you were wrong. I do not intend to be aggressive, VD - I am not native speaker, so maybe it's just I have used English in a way which made me misunderstood. Nevertheless, I am waiting for the explanation. Thanks in advance.

szopen (not logged in because with problems with wordpress again...)

Anonymous said...

I'm not convinced this is even something that can be studied accurately in this way. I've read studies comparing how men and women evaluate the opposite sex, and while men are more-or-less in agreement about what makes a woman pretty, women are all over the place regarding men. Men that several women thought was the hottest thing since Brad Pitt were ranked at the absolute bottom by other women, and vice versa. Women each have a definite 'type' they find physically attractive, but it varies so wildly between women that it's hard to make statistical standards.

My top three for wanting someone:
1) Facial attractiveness
2) Confidence (particularly the sense that they wouldn't tolerate shit from others)
3) Funny/makes me laugh

My top three for 'men I would consider having children with':
1) Sanity (beyond mere lack of mental illness)
2) Warmth/affectionate (not stuff like gifts, I'm talking more like cuddling and just a general 'sense' I get from him - don't know what exactly feeds into that)
3) Physical fitness

It's not so much that I want a totally different person to marry - it's more that I'm very reluctant to start dating someone who doesn't fit with what I want to end up with, no matter how attractive I find him. Why risk getting attached, if I'm just going to have to leave?

Anonymous said...

Meant to say: 3)Physical fitness/facial attractiveness (I'd rather find someone with moderate levels of both, instead of choosing a man with a high/low mix)

Rollo Tomassi said...

There is a marked difference between what women find "Attractive" and what women find "Arousing"

Cryan Ryan said...

"Ask a woman what she finds attractive about a man in the follicular phase of her menstrual cycle and you understand what Alpha traits 'arouse' her sexually.

Ask her what she finds attractive in her luteal phase and you'll understand what she wants from her long term beta provider." Rollo

I was gonna say the same thing, but he said it better so I'll just second the motion.

Trust said...

Women love to dominate a man, but don’t love a man they dominate.

georgedubya said...

Lets stop beating around the bush.

1. Swagger
2. Arrogance
3. Degeneracy

T14 said...

Fitness typically leads to a more attractive face.

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