Thursday, May 24, 2012

Old girls are easy

Once more, we see Game in general, and Roissy in particular, supported by the evidence:
Women over 30 are more likely to have sex on a first date than their younger counterparts, according to a new study. A third of participants (34 per cent) from the age bracket admitted that they would get intimate on a first date compared to just 12 per cent of 24 to 27-year-olds.
While this will no doubt be spun as Strong and Independent Women Knowing What They Want, it is simply basic supply and demand. Older women can't be as picky because they can't afford to be as picky. Since the demand for them is naturally lower, they can't maintain the same "price" they previously commanded. The converse, of course, is male commitment, as the more in demand a man is, the higher his "price" for commitment. I do find it interesting that a mere three years is enough to drive up the female willingness to put out immediately by a factor of nearly three. This is a strong indication that the first attractiveness wall is somewhere right around the age of 27. Which, interesting enough, corresponds nicely with the first sports performance wall for men.

This has some interesting biological implications, as it might be informative to map the female price line against the male performance line and the female fertility line.

UPDATE - As predicted, the hamsters are spinning madly away. Here is one female commenter: "they feel sexually more confident and better able to trust their own judgement. They also care a lot less about being judged by someone with double standards."

Sure they do, Rosie. Sure they do. Because when one contemplates stoic emotional equanimity, a promiscuous 30-something single woman is the very first thing that springs to mind.


Bullitt315 said...

This study seems flawed because it's using what a women say they would do. The 24-27 year olds might say they wouldn't get intimate on a first date but two weeks later "it just happened, and we connected" so maybe the 30+ crowd is less likely to lie about it. I'm sure the percentage of men women would be willing to sleep with on a first date goes up after 30 but I doubt the percentage of women willing to sleep with men on a first date is as different as this article suggests.

JCclimber said...

Wow, but that study just confirms what my own experience taught me. Then again, I found even 19-27 year olds would fall into bed easily enough, if the right buttons were pushed leading up to the first date.

Daniel said...

Hurdler Lolo Jones, who has posed naked for sports magazines, is 29 and openly broadcasting her virginity for the sake of getting a husband - a much shrewder approach, I would think.

She's a local, and she's mentioned her dating difficulties before. The problem is that her community is track athletes where virginity and long-term thinking aren't exactly valued commodities and, especially now, she's older than virtually all of the male sprinters she'd come into regular contact with.

So, she's not getting laid (by choice) and is actually exercising judgment rather than "trusting" it over the perceived condemnation of others.

And I honestly doubt that a world-class female athlete interested in men has any "sexual confidence" issues, even if she is a virgin.

One-nighters aren't sexually confident. They are sexually desperate. Nothing wrong with that impulse, just don't call it the wrong word.

Daniel said...

Your critique applies to your own theory: instead of sex willingness, you suggest women under 27 are radically more likely to be liars. That's more flawed. Best to take the admissions at face value: it jives with reality. 27-30 is a major watershed period for single women's relationships, and if you haven't picked up on that, you probably don't know anyone in that demographic.

Anonymous said...

The rationalization ("they're more comfortable") might hold water if those same women weren't as bat-poop crazy as their younger sisters. My brother is back in the field after a divorce. He calls himself the Squirrel because he seems to collect nuts.

No, it's not comfort. It's the marketplace and even betas, gammas and omegas (well, maybe not them) can clean up in that market.

Stickwick said...

I have to admit, the results surprised me a little. But the explanation makes sense.

From the article, here's an entry for the annals of completely empty statements:

Luke Pomaro, the founder of, which commissioned the survey of 1,171 single women across the UK, said: 'Sleeping with someone on a first date is a completely personal decision and down to the two people who are on the date.

Really? I thought sleeping with someone on the first date was a public decision made by a committee teleconferencing from a remote location. Maybe he said this to make women feel better about answering the survey questions honestly.

Anonymous said...

Yet another pretty lie smashed by what men instinctively know but are prohibited by political correctness and feminism from saying.

Lie: She's a StrongIndependentWoman.

Truth: She is older, past her prime, either past The Wall or screaming towards it at Mach 3, and knows her price is plummeting by the day.

Lie: She's misunderstood and just has never found the right man to settle down and marry.

Truth: She passed up good men who would have married her and instead boffed the douchebags and bad boys, and now she realizes it a year or two too late. She's now desperate to bag the first beta boy she can sex up so she can finally persuade him to wife her up.

Have a great Memorial Day weekend, ladies and gents.


Anonymous said...

Lie: 30 is the new 20!

Truth: 30 is the beginning of the end. It's now or never for her. If she doesn't lock down a husband in the next year, she'll be handed a one way ticket to Feline City for pet cats and cougardom. Only way she can avoid that is to start putting out for the betas who will buy her drinks.


Aeoli Pera said...

Good point, Daniel. I'll add that the "confidence/judgment" explanation produces a contradiction:

-Logic: Older women are either more likely to lie/rationalize, less likely, or just as likely as younger women.
-Logic: The study is invalidated (by the confidence/judgment explanation) only if the former of those is true.
-Assumption: A confident woman who knows what she wants is less likely to lie/rationalize on a survey about her sexual habits.
-Fact (not an assumption): Women statistically lie to obscure their promiscuity.
-Insofar as the assumption is true, the confidence explanation is a contradiction.

Aeoli Pera said...

This is a strong indication that the first attractiveness wall is somewhere right around the age of 27. Which, interesting enough, corresponds nicely with the first sports performance wall for men.

Quite interesting. Would the oldsters tell a young sprout when the other walls occur?

(That's also roughly the end of development in the frontal cortex, which is why I'm hitting the books pretty hard right now.)

Anonymous said...

I have to say, going on personal experience, that:

1. The 24-27 year-old cohort is lying.


2. Sex is defined only as intercourse. (I didn't look because I don't care enough.)

And I don't know about most of you guys but, for me, a blowjob is every bit as good--if not better--than the 'real' thing.

Daniel said...

And yet you care enough to comment on something you choose to ignore. That's weird.

Again, you commit the same obvious error: suddenly 30 year olds have a different definition for the same words that women three years younger do. So they still pass through some magic threshold - my guess is that it isn't linguistical, as you suggest, but quite obviously relational.

Surveys are not to be trusted, but survey "readers" like you should be shot in the brains until something substantial finally passes through them. Think, man. Just think.

LP2021 Bank of LP Work in Progress said...

Very interesting.

Doom said...

The problem I have with the survey is simple. When a women hits about 27, then on to about 33, she is extremely sexual. They are easier to tag, easier to please, more available for sex overall, and much more flexible with regard to what they will do. I don't know if they have finally figured out what "down there" is for (or as they begin calling it, their pussy) or if it is nature giving them one last opportunity to breed... or something. Well, there are freaks and outliers, but in the main.

No, my data isn't scientific. It's just data from a guy who took notes while strolling through the tulips.

Bullitt315 said...

I'd love to have actual numbers here but my guess is if you asked those same women if they ever had a one night stand the % would be higher than those saying that would never have sex on a first date when a one night stand essentially is a first date. My guess is if you look at the % of 24-27 year olds who have had ONS or slept with someone on a first date, it's higher than 12%.

Anonymous said...

"Sure they do, Rosie. Sure they do. Because when one contemplates stoic emotional equanimity, a promiscuous 30-something single woman is the very first thing that springs to mind. "

That made my day.

Anonymous said...

Awesome. I've always liked her - smoking hot and a good attitude - but that interview puts her over the top in my books.

Not sure how you'd approach a girl like that. Be rich, very good looking, and have some very confident, low key game I'm guessing.

Anonymous said...

""Sure they do, Rosie. Sure they do. Because when one contemplates stoic emotional equanimity, a promiscuous 30-something single woman is the very first thing that springs to mind. "

That made my day."

Me too. Laughed so hard. Any doubters should watch a young man who decides to approach an older woman. Or an older woman sit next to the one young guy solo at the bar. Every time it's happened to me I've not only gotten the easiest numbers ever, but had atleast one round of drinks bought for me by her.

The last I encountered kept on saying, "Its my turn to get this round" for three rounds straight, me never buying her a drink or making a comment on it. It was hilarious.

Daniel said...

But that isn't the question that was asked (whether they had done it - rather it was "would you").

That's asking a very different question. Think of it this way: if you take two groups of men, one aged 24-27 and one over 30, and asked them "If you met a pretty 21-year old at a bar, would you stutter?"

Most of the men (say, 70% or something) would say that they "had stuttered in the past" but, when predicting their future, would underestimate their likelihood. Perhaps only 12% of the 24-27 would say "they would" and only 33% of the over 30 crowd would admit, but the point is this: age would be a considerable factor in their self-assessment of future behavior.

Just as it is in this case. It is also important to note that the question was generic, the date himself is not described as attractive or desirable - of course that 12% would go up if the target was described as Thor-like, as would the 33%, and of course there are women who would be dishonest, but the proportion of liars would be the same across the strata, and therefore irrelevant.

Egads. Where's Hypergamous? Her strips are a lot more fun to deconstruct from my crawlspace than survey data is.

Daniel said...

Mous-e, I meant. I know where hypergamous is.

Daniel said...

Actually, you'd approach her by approaching her. Tell her you've got some secret advice for London, but that you can only whisper it, because you don't want it leaking out. When she draws close, whisper "Try not to kick the hurdle." Then draw back and make the "Shhh" gesture. She'll hit you and laugh. Contact.

Rich and good looking would be nice, but there's not much (outside of exercise, and unless you are a division I athlete, you aren't going to be better than what she competes around every day) you can do about that.

More important? Be older than the demographic that surrounds her, and missional about something longer term and more significant than a course, college, national or world record. Also, have a secondary mission about seeing her have your children soon. When approaching an LTR with a potential late bloomer (as long as she's not crazy), seeing that before she does is a practical matter. If she's going to need to be "talked into" the fact that the hour on the bio-clock is late, it is not worth the effort (seriously, you should be able to "enlighten" her with reality within three months of starting the relationship - probably much sooner - she knows the truth, but her hamster takes off like a shot at the sound of ticking. Thinks its a bomb.), for either of you.

Yohami said...

I cant bring myself to test that theory firsthand. But I've seen it applies to older, and or, divorced, and or, with kids, and or, married, and or, in a relationship.

So girls are more likely to make you wait when they are pretty, young, single and without attachments. And more likely to put out quickly the remaining 90% of the time.

Anonymous said...

In related news: People with options can afford to be picky.

Slowpoke said...

28 years old is the knee in the female fertility curve. Imagine that.

Bullitt315 said...

My argument is that "would you" and "have you" should be pretty close given the same demographics. I think all these women say they wouldn't but would be pretty close given the right circumstances and they underestimate the situations in which they actually would. I think the argument is mostly mute because the basic logic is right. Banging a 30 year old is easier than a 20 year old. I'll try and put it this way. 30% of 20 year olds will hook up with the top 10% of men where 30% of 40 year olds will hook up with the top 20% of men. If you're in the top 10% you'll probably have a pretty similar success rate. I buy 30+ women are easier I just don't trust the 12% vs. 30% seems more reasonable to me. I think we're arguing semantics for the most part but it wouldn't surprise me if women change their truth rate when they hit the 30 milestone.

Doom said...


Whether you go for a woman in that age group, and whether that is easy or heavy lifting, depends on you. At 16 to 22 I enjoyed the heck out of that age of women. At 46, it is again my target age as I want kids, finally. Both times, that age group was or is a bit of a... tricky situation. Like fishing though, use banks for cover, don't let them see the line, use the right bait, and set the hook with just the right amount of finesse and firmness to bag the damn fish. Whine about the consequences to no one, no one cares. Just eat you damn supper and like it! It's... all good.

I've actually got a 25 year old checking the bait currently. I'll spend some time with that, but I'm keeping my eyes open for better or just in case this fish isn't quite hungry enough, or if she ends up being barren or otherwise unsuitable as a wife and mother.

Candide said...

Alternative explanation (because I don't believe the younger women are 3 times less slutty):

Younger women don't have as much first date sex because they don't go on dates anymore.

Athor Pel said...

What do women cherish more than their virginity? Reputation.

The young women still have theirs and are actively guarding it either with lies or with real circumspect behavior. The old ones do not have a young girl's reputation anymore, and know it, so they see no negative consequences to revealing some truth.

That's my theory anyway.

Daniel said...

Is the world made of hamster wheels today? Abstaining on the first date does not make a woman less slutty - it means that she is less desperate to engage early. This statistic says nothing for date #2. Maybe the propensity goes up for older women because the likelihood of a second date goes down!

Older women have, by definition, lost certain advantages, forcing them to consider exploiting new techniques - not only to attract men, but to meet hypergamy's short-term demands. In other words - no first date sex is a point of power and control for a younger woman, but is perceived as a potential disqualifier by older ones.

This isn't brain surgery. It seems that people are getting promiscuity confused with this question. This question has very little to do with that subject.

Most non-virgins prior to hitting 24 have already had at least (remember: floor, not ceiling) one first date/one-night stand. The majority of them regret or have bad feelings related to that (due, no doubt, in part to vague awareness of the toll or potential toll it has to their long-term market value.)

Considering that a 27-year old is still young enough to be "worth" waiting through the first date for, it is to her advantage to intend "never" to do first date sex (again). There's 12% who, for whatever reason (whether current behavior, longer range thinking, or plain realism) do intend do it.

Older than that? That power is very much on the wane: her dates are going to have a greater expectation of quick results, and her particular fruit on the girl tree is in expiration mode. It makes sense that a larger minority from that camp are going to abandon forward positions (abstention) that are no longer of strategic value to them.

Anonymous said...

Does this mean that male cyclists, soccer goalkeepers and baseball catchers have to wait even longer for older gals to get loose as they peak later than other athletes? :P

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