Monday, May 7, 2012

Alpha Mail: dealing with the other guy

DS asks about dealing with the competition:
I was trying to find an older post, but none of my search phrases netted what I was looking for. I was recently out with a girl and she mentioned "this guy she's dating," and none of the things were very positive. I remember a post that talked about how to handle situations like that, if I should talk bad about the guy or encourage a break up. I couldn't remember what the course of attack should be, so I tried to remain neutral. Any tips on where that post might be found, or maybe just a brief refresher?
No clue about the post, but my recommendation, assuming that her involvement with the other guy isn't a dealbreaker at this stage, is to simply ignore his existence and make it clear that you have zero interest in discussing him or anyone else interested in her. This is where Deltas and Gammas tend to make their mistake and either a) leap at the chance to sing, dance, and look like the Potentially Better Boyfriend, or b) leap into the Friend Zone by providing a shoulder upon which she can cry. If she brings the other guy up again after the first time, simply raise your eyebrows and say something like "I had no idea you were still hitting that... interesting."

That should produce some hurried denials or justifications, which will provide DS with good information concerning whether he should be bothering with her at all. It sounds to me as if she's been relegated to a horse in the other guy's stable or otherwise demoted, which is why she's simultaneously bad-mouthing him and continuing to see him. DS has to realize that he may be of lower rank than the other guy, which means he has to up her perception of his rank or she's going to prefer part-time other guy to full-time him.

If she tries to bring him up a third time, DS should simply cut contact with her. No warning, no explanation, no drama, and when she comes around looking for attention, he should tell her that he's got better options than wasting time on a flake hung up on someone else. Remember, women are attracted to male action. Cutting off contact with her may be the message she needs to drop the guy. And if not, at least he won't be wasting any more time on her.


Doom said...

I had hoped to disagree with something. Oh well. Just, if you want to be another of her girlfriends then talk about her lousy boyfriend all day. If you want to be her lousy boyfriend, read and do. Well, it jumps the odds a bit. But either way, being her girlfriend is pretty lame unless you are... into soap operas or summit.

Aeoli Pera said...


Trumped-up charges- Roissy/Heartiste
Take his side- The Private Man

I can't remember any more off the top of my head.

Anonymous said...

Another option is to "defend" the boyfriend while lowering his SMV and painting a contrast to yourself.

Something like "It sounds like he's a nice guy who's really into you and afraid to lose you." Or "I've known some guys who get clingy with pretty girls that they're really into, and they'll do that." Delivered in a dismissive, disinterested way and followed by an immediate topic change.

If she persists, you can shut her down with a tease. Something like a smirking "Sorry, but before we get into girl talk, I'm gonna need triple fudge ice cream and Steel Magnolias."

Daniel said...

Sometimes it helps if you just zone out on dates - 80% of them improve by the mere fact of you not thinking about or paying attention to anything (thereby not thinking about or paying attention to her). The 20% that don't work out can be written off as learning exercises - that is if you remember anything from them. Forgotten girls tend not to forget you.

The fastest moving dates are ones that you don't realize actually are dates or ones that you are completely and genuinely preoccupied with something more important to you than the success of the date. So find something more important, and occupy your mind.

Athol Kay said...

"That's cool. I can be discrete."

Aeoli Pera said...


Though "discrete" would be appropriate as a metaphor, I doubt your audience would appreciate it.

Aeoli Pera said...

Not only am I criticizing the presentation of knowledge rather than the content (which I liked, by the way), I am responding to my own comment. Time for bed!

Plus, I am drunk.

Anonymous said...

[Remember, women are attracted to male action. Cutting off contact with her may be the message she needs to drop the guy. And if not, at least he won't be wasting any more time on her.]

This is golden

SouthTX said...

I guess I come from it old school. Woke up late. Going back to nights. My schedule has me screwed up. Stopped at the local watering hole. I talked to guy's I know and made new friends. Ignored the cougars. The Mrs. knows I go go there from time to time. But I come home to the Family every time. Girl's be a good Wife, and he won't be tempted too much. I bring beta in that I enjoy cooking Italian to the point of giving a heart attack on a plate. The Family has told me I have perfected alfredo sauce on pasta. My (other) Prime Directive is providing for my Family. The First you can can figure out as I am Christian.

The Original Hermit said...

"Another option is to "defend" the boyfriend while lowering his SMV and painting a contrast to yourself."

No. Don't give her an opportunity to come up with reasons she's still into him. She might start to believe them.

SouthTX said...

Guy's, if you see the big picture. It doesn't matter. It scares me what is coming for all of us. Not good.

RK said...

SouthTX writes: "Guy's, if you see the big picture. It doesn't matter."

Wrong. It matters a great deal. You sound like a man who's been happily married for years and has either never experienced, or forgotten, years of failure with women and the resulting demoralization and loneliness of prolonged bachelorhood. I would probably still be single at 47 if I hadn't been mentored by a game-aware Christian man when I was 29.

Carlotta said...

From a women's perspective, I have to wonder if this is a shit test. I did this once when dating my Husband. Brought up two other guys who were chasing me. I believe he told me to have a nice time with them and began calling another girl right in front of me. I had to do a lot of convincing to get him off the phone :)

It can kind of be a move to see how serious you are about her. To see if you are going to be possesive or not.

You didn't say what the type of relationship you are pursuing with her. I would guess if this is someone you are using for sex it would be a totally different response then someone you want for the Mother of your Children. I cannot understand where if a man is in a realtionship with a women seriously where he would tolerate her even talking about another guy, let alone dating him. But that is just my experience.

Carlotta said...

Why would you defend? If you want to be with this women, why would you even tolerate her dating someone else, let alone talk about him with her in any way, shape or form?

VD said...

It can kind of be a move to see how serious you are about her. To see if you are going to be possesive or not.

Precisely... except it's not a move to see how serious he is, it's a shit test of his confidence in his socio-sexual rank.

A woman who sees a man fail to blink when she starts talking about other guys knows that he has other options that he can explore at will.

Anonymous said...

It's not really a defense; it's a subtle undermine. I do it because it works.

Anonymous said...

"why would you even tolerate her dating someone else, let alone talk about him with her in any way, shape or form"

Because you want to bang her and don't care that she has a boyfriend. Most good looking women have boyfriends; many of them will cheat.

SouthTX said...

I'll concede the point. I was quite shy around girls. The ones I dated approached me first. Glad I was the Wife's first and last boyfriend. Big picture refered to where as a people we are headed.

SouthTX said...

Yep. As we have aged. Shit test's have dropped to zero. She doesn't want to give me a hall pass.

Anonymous said...

"DS asks about dealing with the competition"

There is no competition. That should always be the mindset. If it's not then one has a confidence problem.

If some chick is consistently bringing up the same guy, as Vox stated, just move on and don't look back. It's just that simple...

RK said...

I was also shy around women, so I understand your perspective.
As to being scared of the direction where America is headed because of feminism, I'm over that now. I look forward to feminism being driven inexorably and remorselessly from every fortress and foxhole as men learn game.

Anonymous said...

When I was about 19 this is exactly what happened to me, and me and the other guy got played and laid for about two months before she moved on to an older high income guy. She didn't have any reason to tell us about it, but she did and played us both to her advantage. I'd play it differently now.

She'd get the eyebrow, and a "why exactly are you telling me this?" If she raised the issue a second time, I'd walk and say thanks, I've got other stuff to do. She could chase but I'd be unlikely to re-engage, and if she talked me into seeing her again at all I could only think of her as harem fodder. The indiscretion and indelicacy in her approach signals clearly that she's not relationship material, her egotism makes her a bad investment.

Cary said...

Just show total disinterest in the guy coupled with a willingness to tell her to blow off if she doesn’t shut up about him. This very situation is how I ended up with my first serious girlfriend in college. I had just left another girl’s room and was cutting through a dorm when I saw something odd with her and her roommate through the doorway that prompted me to make some sort of sarcastic comment. As I turned to keep on walking she had to stop me to defend her honor. I bantered a bit before leaving. The following night at a frat party, she approached me and then kept mentioning that she had a boyfriend. The first couple of times I basically ignored that while inviting her to leave with me. Finally after she mentioned it for the 3rd or 4th time, I told her that I didn’t care and told her either come with me or just tell me to leave her alone and I’d walk away. I think it took 3 times of telling her that. She would just look at me, so I would start to leave then she would grab me saying that she wanted me. Needless to say, my willingness to walk made me more desirable until she did in fact leave with me and went on to break up with the boyfriend.

Cary said...

I should add to the above that while I didn’t understand any of it at the time, everything that I now know about game explains that entire relationship. I was a serious athlete and told her right at the beginning that sports would be a priority over the relationship with her. When I found out I had won a scholarship that she had applied for and not gotten, I mocked her accomplishments in comparison to mine. This made her verbally express anger, but didn’t seem to harm her desire for me at all. Similarly, one time she started hitting me on the shoulder when she was upset about something. Purely as a defense mechanism I pushed her back with my arm, but being a large and strong person, she went flying. She verbally expressed rage about my being physical even though she instigated it and my reaction was just to defend myself, but she also went on to dote over me for the rest of the weekend after that incident.

While I always liked her and fell in love with her, the relationship only faltered when after a couple of years I began to think seriously about possibly marrying her and started expressing more actual desire for her instead of an attitude that I care about you but you could walk out tomorrow and I wouldn’t shed a tear. At the time I was surprised that her interest cooled as I treated her better and expressed more substantial interest, but now I’m just glad that I didn’t have to have learn about this by having married her and then being divorced, which is what happened with the guy that she did marry.

Anonymous said...

"this guy she's dating,"

"So your place is out. There's a hotel around the corner."

If you can't bring yourself to try that see Athol's remark.

If you still can't get yourself motivated to that level: "oh he must not be that into you" and give her your best "I'm so freaking bored" look and get the check. Walk out and leave her there.

I never thought of myself as a ladies man, but come on have some self respect.

Punk said...

Vox and gents,

As an older man, when a young woman goes on and on about her boyfriend, I usually tell her she's boring me-- but when she asks, I do give her my opinion of the man and if he's running bad game (Vox has mentioned in the past that women should ask their male friends if their boyfriends are players). But the response I always get is annoying. They try to rationalize to me. What am I doing wrong here? I have no interest in these women and don't do anything to chase them; I have even less interest in discussing their stupid love affairs.

Mohammed Chang said...

In my clueless days, a gal once told me when we were alone at my place that she was "sort of seeing someone" right as that pause before an expected kiss landed. I didn't know what to do when confronted with the news, we'd just been on a date and everything had been going well up to that point, so I panicked, politely told her to give me a call when she figured things out and showed her to the door without trying to kiss her. I thought I'd blown it, but we ended up fooling around a few weeks later. Looking back now with a better understanding of the dynamics at play, it's worth a chuckle.

The Original Hermit said...

"subtle undermine"

So you're going to use female tactics against a female. Good luck with that.

Carlotta said...

This is true. I see what you are saying.

The other two lads who didn't fall off when my Husband and I became an item were bad mouthing him to me constantly or trying to get me to pay attention to them when he was going into a class or playing a sport (so he could see them but was safely occupied for the moment). It never made me think less of my Husband, it gave me a distaste for them. They seeed inferior for doing so.

I told them off when they did this and refused to even seem like I was being inappropriate with them. Part of what won my Husband. But looking back, this was never told to me, I just knew instinctively to do it.

Ok, truth time.....I would not have acted that way if I had not deemed my Husband more valueable then them. Just realised it now LOL. dissecting.

In the incident I noted, he never defended or even got pissed. Was never threatened. It later upset me quite a bit because I was hoping he would want to knock someone out LOL.

And I also knew that there were several calls that my Husband could make and they would be happy to take my place in an instant. This is still true. That is so annoying :)

Sigh, ahh...young love :)

SouthTX said...

Girl's. Guy's get to the point of not a Fk. I don't do shit test. She knows it and protects me. I make her and the kid's secure.

Giraffe said...

One wonders when she wears her hypergamy on her sleeve if you are not better off to just leave. She obviously has problems with loyalty.

Anonymous said...

It sounds like you're either the Safe Married Guy Friend, or a woman with a confused hamster is offering you a chance to make a move. The endless rationalization may be the result of you signalling higher SMV with the neg of the boyfriend followed up by your continued disinterest in her. Any fit hamster would start running at that point to salvage some dignity by making it clear that "I wasn't inviting you to hit on me; in fact, my boyfriend is sort of peachy."

Desert Cat said...

Hermit, you may or may not have noticed that a lot of Game involves the use of fire to fight fire. The results are what matter.

Anonymous said...

Interesting. My wife, a little while after we had gotten married, was pressed by a really good looking PUA in a bar who knew she was married, and knew I was right there. I ignored her and the fellow who was attempting to hang horns on me, just kept talking with my friends about the game and drinking beer. Later, she was really pissed and asked me why I didn't come to her defense and take a swing at the guy or something. I said "you're a big girl, you can handle yourself and make your own choices. If you really need my help, tell me." Evidently, this was the right move.

Sensei said...

Agreed. If you're actually in the game for someone worth keeping around, that's a helpful yellow flag.

Sarah said...

DS, if she's going out with *you*, and then talking about another guy she's dating, she is being disrespectful and inconsiderate. No matter how terrible a guy he is, it is inappropriate for her to go on and on about this other person.

Is it being cruel to her difficulties? No. If he's really that bad, she would stop dating him. But now, she is just using you to vent. In a moment, you have already been relegated to "friend" status! Is this not obvious to you? The date has turned into a "girls' night out", and you are one of the girls! Congratulations. Would you like another umbrella in your foo-foo drink?

That is *wrong*. You are not her friend or her relative here. You are a *prospect*. She should not be talking about anybody else, and if she is, then her mind is not on you. Does this fact not bother you?

And while Vox, etc, says you shouldn't listen to other women's counsel, I just want to concur with him, because what she did to you is just such a big insult. She may not be consciously aware of that, because she's too busy thinking and talking about herself and her problems with *another guy* to think about *you*. But that's the bloody problem!! Sorry, I just can't believe it. What is wrong with people? I feel for you, dude. I really do.

I would suggest you just don't go out with her again until she's done with this other dude, and don't talk to her until she makes the initiative, and if she brings him up again, then tell her outright everything I'm saying to you, and tell her to get back to you when she's over him. Also, warn her that you won't be waiting for her. She might call you an a*& and walk away in a huff, but she was the jerk first. She just didn't say it in so many words. You won't get respect from this woman until you show that you respect yourself.

A woman can whinge and bitch all she wants and talks about how much she hates so-and-so, but even if it were genuine intense hatred, it's not good for you that such a fixation exists. Some women are just loopy, and ultimately, you should *not* be in competition with another male for her attention. That you are even considering "competing" with him (or that you *appear* to be competing, which is often enough) indicates that you are an inferior specimen. If you were better than him, this should not be something you *have* to explain or show off or convince of her.

Bad mouthing him with her is being a "girlfriend". That's what other girls do, dude..they echo back and then talk about their bad boyfriends and then agree with one another and say "yah, he's a terrible person!!".

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