Wednesday, April 27, 2011

A Defender of the Girl Tree

Last week the girl I have been pursuing decided to no longer see me. I found this out through a friend of mine that she confides in. Because she comes from the same religion as I, she tries to have high standards and was feeling guilty about our date (making-out is frowned upon). She contacted my friend, who gave her advice that, while it did not directly involve me, resulted in her decision to stop seeing me.

A day after their discussion he contacted me to tell me to stay away from his friends, particularly young and impressionable girls who are trying to live a life with standards. Out of respect my friend I contacted the girl to indicate that we should talk and perhaps break things off. At this point I did not know that she had already decided to end it. Other than a text indicating that she would no longer see me, I have not heard from her. While I am unhappy that the relationship is over, almost before it had even begun, what bothers me the most is that I was not given the chance to save the relationship in a way that would have also preserved my friend's need for standards with girls he considers his friends. It appears that I do not have the respect from my friend that I thought I did, something I would have liked to remedy had I been given the chance.

I suppose it was my own fault for pursuing a girl who I knew might feel guilty about the whole thing. I can also see how my friend may have felt that I had not conducted myself appropriately, considering he told her I was a good guy before all this happened (something I did not know about). Regardless I feel blindsided by the whole thing, and somewhat hurt. I do not know yet what will happen to our friendship but this whole mess reveals a significant difference in how we see each other.

One thing is for sure I am not going to act like a desperate omega and pursue this girl further. I am seriously pissed about the whole thing but if I can do it once I can do it again, and there are always more girls on the girl tree.

EDIT: I did tell him about the date before he had his discussion with the girl, so he knew what was making her feel guilty.


Anonymous said...

I have to question whether he ever really was your friend.

Like you said, you were never given a chance to give your side of the story or even a chance to mediate the situation.

What kind of friend does that?

Anonymous said...

There are more friends on the friend tree too.

Find one who knows that bros come before hoes.

Anonymous said...

Is it just me or is that kind of moral reservation odd coming from a professional belly-dancer.

Anonymous said...

You're doing great, but you made two two mistakes here:

1) getting back in touch with her at all

2) giving a crap

I know it's hard - it's SOOO hard - to really cultivate the "mindset of abundance" that you hear about... but you have to, and once you do, you will be AMAZED at how well it works.

Repeat after me: it is not your job to get closure, nail down the status of anything, make sure you're both on the same page, etc.

Your job is to Always Be Closing.


I started exactly where you are - maybe worse. Two years along, and I'm doing MUCH better.

In December I was going on dates with two or three women. One early 30s, cute enough, a 5...and one 29, a 7 (I'm being honest with these ratings; for what I can pull, these are the equiv of a 7 and a 10).

Had a first date with the 29 year old and she was VERY excited to talk to me. I followed up two days later with an email saying "had fun; dinner next week?".

I got no response, so I FUCKING DID NOT WRITE BACK.

Went on to have a short relationship with the other one, which I ended a month or two later.

Around this time the 29 year old got back in touch "Haven't heard from you - read about you in the news [ long story, but the take away: women like bad boys ] - wondered what you're up to? Why didn't you write back?"

I played a bit hard to get: "I did write back, never heard from you - had other women pursuing me, so forgot about you".

Her response: " sounds so crazy now, but I guess I was waiting for you to write back a second time... I know that makes no sense."

Two days later she was buying ME dinner at an expensive restaurant as an apology for her flakiness.

There are three billion women out there. Especially at this stage in your development, don't waste time trying to tie things off into tidy packages. Flirt with the barrista. Flirt with the bookstore clerk. Flirt with the waitress. Do online dating. Go on so many first dates it makes your head spin.

...and when one of them says "where exactly do we stand" ** THEN ** spend a few seconds thinking about the answer.

Anonymous said...

Your friend wants to fuck her and is jealous.

Drop him.

Ignore her.

Get on with your life.

Anonymous said...

Never take the blame

Jettison the "friend"

Never care.

It's her loss.

End of story.

Ignore and forget.

YOHAMI said...

your friend is a backrubber, and the girl didnt fuck you because you´re not alpha enough YET

dont take any negativity from this situation. You´re going to repeat this over and over so dont put any weight on it, its meaningless

at least, dude, you´re on the "evil man" side this time and not in the rubbing her back side

swiftfoxmark2 said...

Your friend sucks and probably wants a harem all his own. Or he's a Gamma.

Either way, I would suggest ignoring his request and doing what you think is right. Don't be surprised if your friend backs down.

It is obvious to me that you need to stand up for yourself and apply Alpha principles not only with women, but with men as well. Not that I'm saying you should date men, but to stand up for yourself.

Seriously, any man who interferes with another man's romantic life without permission is not a friend.

indyguy77@work said...

He sounds like a sleazebag and she sounds like an immature little girl.

Athol Kay: Married Man Sex Life said...

He was just mad that you made out with his love interest most likely.

Juhana said...

Keep at it, man. You're doin' well. Don't give up.

Maybe change your religion? It's maybe possible there're more ways to heaven than within your particular sect. Just sayin'. . . .

LP2021 Bank of LP Work in Progress said...

Distancing herself from you via a text, huh? She really stinks. Move on from her, replace her with a new girl or two or even 3. The male friend seems like a flake and a poor wingman. Ditch him. remember you will meet many boys and girls in life, some will be good, some will be not so great. Walk through any hurts you have on the issue and take the lessons in stride :)

Women like me know you will be do better and get stronger!

JCclimber said...

Why were you discussing your date at all with this friend? I didn't even discuss my dates with my immediate family. Maybe my roommates, just to keep them up to date who might be "visiting".

i know it is hard to quickly leave behind your Omega behaviors, but you have got to stop talking about your dates with your friends, especially if they won't agree with your behaviors.

That said, I think you already know that this person is not your friend. At all. By the way, why does he have female friends? Sounds like Gamma behavior, which means that he will sabotage your efforts if it even has the tiniest hint of success. As long as you look relatively harmless, he won't sabotage you.

At least he was honest enough to tell you to stay away from "his friends". Oh, and the girl? She'll be remembering your date for many years. Walk away, erase her, delete every bit of her presence from your life, phone, etc.

Nate said...

I'm calling bullshit here.

1) No such thing as a girl that feels guilty over making out.

2) ... no... I don't need 2. 1. was good enough.

She lied. He lied. She's blowing someone else right now, and telling herself its not actually sex. That's fine.


Lucas said...

Stay away from comited Christian girls, if all you want is fun.

Honestly, seek a pagan and face the consequences :P

Nate said...

I fail to see what committed Christian girls have to do with it. The idea that a committed Christian girl would feel guilty over making out... is utterly laughable.

I married a committed Christian and only dated committed Christians and had raunchy wild sex with all of them. None of which expressed the slightest guilt. I've had threesomes with committed christian girls. They don't regret that either.

Regret is very... very rarely applicable to the female mind. It would require a sense of accountability you see...

swiftfoxmark2 said...

More than likely Nate, this 'friend' made her feel guilty.

TheRedSkull said...

This could be buyer's remorse masquerading as holy regret.

In which case the answer is just to keep improving your game, and possibly escalate slower with certain girls.

If this is the belly dancer chick we're talking about... something does not compute.

Tab Capslock said...

Your friend is deep in her "friend zone" and is white-knighting her. Forget them both.

Not sure where this belly dancer = slut is coming from. Aside from the exposed midriffs it's a very classy dance style. they even cover their mouths when they ululate because it's too suggestive otherwise.

RaeAnn said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SarahsDaughter said...

"I've had threesomes with committed christian girls." - Nate

You are a cruel man, Mr. Nate. After cursing your existence, I'm sure the non-ALPHAs here thank you for keeping the dream alive.

No, there is no regret, there is blame and there is "I changed my mind and want to make out with the daddy figure who his 'helping' me keep myself 'pure'," which = no accountability.

"While I am unhappy that the relationship is over, almost before it had even begun, what bothers me the most is that I was not given the chance to save the relationship in a way that would have also preserved my friend's need for standards with girls he considers his friends. It appears that I do not have the respect from my friend that I thought I did, something I would have liked to remedy had I been given the chance."-RM
Just as a woman needs to stop lying, stop blaming, be accountable, rational and responsible, you need to strike all of this from your vocabulary. It is whiny and repulsive.

LP2021 Bank of LP Work in Progress said...

Not to mother hen RM. But SD brought something to my mind. Sometimes, we over think these chance encounters. Don't over think it or over analyze, you'll meet more women you like. She is just one of many. Glean some lessons and get another couple girls or one female. My point is that when our circles are too small it gives us a sense myopic living. There is a big world out there to explore.

Crowhill said...

Nate -- you're wrong. There are religious men and women who feel guilty about any kind of pre- or extra-marital sexual activity.

(Of course "feeling guilty" doesn't mean they won't do it from time to time.)

Thatkoolkid said...

A) Your friend isn't trying to screw her. She approached him before you ever even tried to game her. She was too easy for him, even if he didn't have Christian standards

B) Your friend's recommendation was the only thing that got you any action in the first place to quote your friend:

" [RM] says you guys've been talkin. that's awesome.
[RM]'s pretty much the bomb ha ha He's so deep and smart. A very unique person. which is definitely a compliment. "

This after you had assured him that you had no ill intentions. Granted, that was a vague statement and he should have sought clarification. But the fact that he still values your friendship over the whole thing is worth something.

C) You all have a very skewed idea of "committed Christians" a truly committed Christian seeks to emulate Christ in all aspects of her life. Those who have raunchy wild sex are by my definition NOT committed Christians.

D) RM you give yourself way too much credit if you think you're the only horse on the carousel this girl was riding. (whether "riding" means sex, making out, or whatever it be) and too much credit if you think your friend's discussion with this girl was all about you.

E) Your friend still wants to talk to you in person.

Thatkoolkid said...

Also, you forgot to mention she had a boyfriend (who is not your friend) or the fact that she thought you had a girlfriend. These facts play into the whole affair being morally objectable.

Thatkoolkid said...

Professional belly dancer? please. This girl is a 15 year old in a 19 year old body. Lives with mom and dad, no phone, no job, homeschooled. If you were gaming a professional belly dancer this might be a little different.

sconzey said...

As a crazy snake-talking Pentecostal, I'll add my $0.02:

This is an interesting one. On one level the actions of your "friend" are white-knighting, and therefore BETA. On another level, his acting as a gatekeeper to "his (girl-flavoured) friends" is an act of ALPHA dominance over you.

So, whilst it would be BETA, to come back to this girl begging for a second chance, it's also BETA to let this guy get away with cockblocking you.

What you and this girl do and do not do is between you and her. Neither you nor her should need to cater to his "need for standards." If you're a Christian then you're your own man, with your own relationship with God, and you play by His rules, not your friend's.

I would respond to him by respectfully informing him that what you and his friends did together was none of his business. Going forward I would not rely on him to be any sort of intermediary in your interactions with the fairer sex.

If I read your account correctly, you had no further contact from her after that last text. Your only explanation for what went on comes from your "friend." I would suggest you re-interpret all he's told you with a cynical eye.

SarahsDaughter said...

"Those who have raunchy wild sex are by my definition NOT committed Christians."

Crap, my husband and I are surely going to hell by your definition.

Anonymous said...

Thatkoolkid shows first-hand knowledge of the situation that AFAIK has not been openly posted. To quote:
"The girl is a 15 year old in a 19 year old body. Lives with mom and dad, no phone, no job, homeschooled."
He also defends the friend in a personal way, and shows many of the friend's attitudes as described.

I'm calling bullshit. Thatkoolkid is either the friend in question, or someone who knows him.

RM, have you ever mentioned game or this website to that friend or other mutual friends?

swiftfoxmark2 said...

Yeah, I think Thatkoolkid is RM's friend in question.

"Those who have raunchy wild sex are by my definition NOT committed Christians."

Seriously, point to me in the Bible where that is specified. Show me where it states what positions are sinful and what positions are not. Indicate what a man is allowed to do to a woman and what a woman is allowed to do with a man.

Anonymous said...

The problem isn't the sex, it is the fornication. If the two of you are married,just don't frighten the children or the livestock.

Double E said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Double E said...

dude its pretty obvious what happened here. This 'friend' of hers is a beta orbiter who was 2 years into his N-year master plan to win her over with his niceness when she started telling him stories about having a good time with you. He gave her the "i didn't know you were like THAT' speech, motivated purely by jealously, and shamed her into breaking it off. Then he used the guise of protecting her honor to confront you about it. Simple jealousy, nothing more.

Just ignore them both. You don't need that drama.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

The problem isn't the sex, it is the fornication. If the two of you are married,just don't frighten the children or the livestock.

I know this, I was mocking Thatkoolkid. It really irks me when people claim things in the Bible that don't exist. He made a broad claim about sex, so I was trying to put his over-zealous attitude in check.

Joseph Dantes said...

Ok, the situation has become more clear.

This is one of the inherent risks of dating fundy Christians, for guys or girls.

Their moral compasses will swing wildly back and forth on the issue of sexual boundaries. You may get caught in the crunch. Not much you can do about it, except remain calm and move on, leaving the door open for a later swing back.

She obviously is struggling between her basic female nature that rewards escalation and enjoys it, and her Christian sexual standards.

I would actually advise a different approach to the usual Game advice, based on this situation.

Re-initiate contact with her on your own, unilaterally, in a way that doesn't demand a reply.

Let her know that if the issue is physical boundaries, you're happy to comport yourself so as not to offend her conscience. State that many Christian women take it as a weakness or a sign of lack of romantic interest if a man hesitates to go for the kiss. Since she did not communicate her standards beforehand, you make no apologies for your behavior.

And let her know that she can take all the time she needs to figure out what her standards really are, but she will have to figure that out before she can date you.

Joseph Dantes said...

Oh, and whatever BS reply she gives after that, and it WILL be something, ignore it. Ice her out for a good long while and let her hamster spin. If nothing else, you'll have regained your hand.

Some Guy said...

I am confused. She made out with you..... that means that TWO people were making out. So now YOU are the bad person? Then this white knight buddy of yours shows up and reminds her of her morals/religious obligations and YOU are to blame for what YOU made her do?

The hypocrisy I have read in the above story is incredible. She barely has the mentality of a five year old. Your "friend" wants to bang her and is taking advantage of her conscience to make his move.

Get away from these people. This isn't devotion to religion, but a rationalization hampster being ridden into battle by the Don Quixote of White Knights to take down a fictional giant, and the giant happens to be you. It's a bad story at best and a good lesson for you at the worst.

Go find another girl he hangs out with and make out with her too. The best way to deal with guys like him is to make out with every girl he knows.

Thatkoolkid said...

Yes yes yes, i forgot to mention marriage. I was replying to someone who spoke of dating "many christian women" and having wild raunchy sex with them. So I am sorry for not clarifying: those girls who claim to be devoted Christians, but have wild raunchy sex OUSTIDE OF MARRIAGE (as was insinuated by the person who spoke of having wild raunchy sex with many committed christian girls) are, by my definiion, not devoted Christians.

Secondly, thatkoolkid never claimed to not be RM's friend in question. Sometimes people speak in third person for various desired effect. Thatkoolkid thought it was sufficiently obvious who he was.

Thirdly, had RM's friend really wanted to bang her HE'D HAVE DONE IT WHEN SHE APPROACHED HIM LONG BEFORE APPROACHING RM! You guys seriously insist there is no such thing as a man who puts his Christian lifestyle, his love of Jesus, and his respect for people above the lusts of the flesh? Indeed there may not be a man who can do that outside of Jesus Christ. But Jesus Christ imparts of Himself, to all who believe on His name, the power to do miracles. Even the miracle of loving God more than self. Just sayin.

"Defending the girl tree" could be a desperate coping mechanism of a loser gamma who wants to screw the girl in question OR..... it could be an alpha, beta, sigma, or any other personality type simply trying to emulate his Lord and Savior and remind his friend of the same.

Fourthly, my apologies if it was implied that RM was the only one at fault for the breach of Christian standards. The girl is definitely to blame for her part, but it should be noted that the whole idea of Game is to get girls to do things they would not otherwise do. Let's have a little bit of respect for Game Theory and admit that it is a tool that, depending on how is applied, can be used to separate Christian Girls from their standards. (and indeed, many people use it exclusively to separate girls, christian or otherwise, from Christian standards. no?) My son may make his own choice to vandalize public property, but that doesn't mean I don't put any degree of responsibility on his friends who influenced him, especially if they used a tried and proven systematic method designed specifically to make him break the law!

Anonymous said...

"Secondly, thatkoolkid never claimed to not be RM's friend in question. Sometimes people speak in third person for various desired effect. Thatkoolkid thought it was sufficiently obvious who he was."

Uh, no. You created a sock puppet to defend yourself. People who get busted doing that tend to get slammed, and rightfully so.


"the whole idea of Game is to get girls to do things they would not otherwise do"

*bzzzzzzt* Wrong. Loser.

Lucas said...


I've had threesomes with committed christian girls. They don't regret that either.

Sorry to burst your bubble, Nate, but if you had treesomes with them, then their "comittment" is highly unlikely.

It's better to say that they CLAIED to be comitted.

Some Guy said...

Why do we make so many excuses for women? They are fully responsible for their own mistakes. If they aren't, then they are not our equals and need to be controlled for all our sakes.

Mike Huckabee said...

drive over to her house and show her who's boss, tough guy.

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