So basically I've just started seeing someone new and as part of the getting to know each other conversation he asked how many other people I've slept with.The reason one is well-advised to immediately end things with a woman who is not willing to be forthcoming about her sexual history is that, as you can see here, deceit is not a sound foundation for a relationship.
I don't really know what a normal number is but I know my number is pretty high compared to my closest friends so I wasn't comfortable telling him
So I told him I wasn't going to answer that and he pushed a bit then left it so I thought that was the end of it. Then last night he asked again. I said I thought we had already had that conversation and he said so it's that many is it?
I don't know if I should of told him or not what do people think?
Have people been in a similar situation and what did you do?
What is a normal number or a high number?
Should I be worried he even asked or is that quite normal?
Furthermore, there is a strong correlation between relationship and marital success and the number of lovers a woman has had. To refuse to answer the question is tantamount to saying "too high for a reasonable expectation of marital success".
29 comments:
Not even once.
If a woman doesn't want to answer that question that means she thinks the number is too high. I say trust her instincts on this and behave accordingly.
That advice forum is a prime exhibit of women enthusiastically sabotagingredients each other.
As I recall the number which makes marriage likely to fail is pretty low. I think if she had 5 lovers the marriage was more likely to fail then succeed and was almost certain to be unhappy. The sad reality is the chances of finding a woman worth marrying are poor.
The other thing her reaction signals is a lack of repentance. The problem from her perspective isn't her history as the town bike, but that her latest rider has the temerity to ask about her sexual past.
A woman will always tell her friends more than her date. He will never know, but everyone else in the room knows her secrets. She is likely a liar.
This girl is being silly. She can just say: nom of your biz, non of anyones biz and leave it at that.
Then dude can move on or stay on or whatever he wants to do. I think its better this way then if she says:you are my second.
And later it turns out that in fact you are twenty-second.
I wouldn't even bother asking these days. Just cheat on her non stop and make her hate herself. If you have a daughter, be sure to raise her right and be passive aggressive in pointing out what happens to bad girls.
Followed the link and the comments were ... interesting.
I wouldn't even bother asking these days.
Neither would I, nor should any man bother. Any answer she gives you is going to be a lie.
What needs to be done away with is this idea of dating through high school, then college, then the "workplace," and then finally settling down.
As I learned the hard way, by the time women are ready to settle down, too many men have left their mark on them and you're the one that's gonna pay for it all. Dalrock might talk about "repentance," but I think the issue here is something else.
People leave their mark on others. It makes us more cynical as we age. This is particularly bad when it comes to how women view the men in their lives, because divorce laws allow them to put *other* men over a barrel. Women can "repent" all they want, but what's done is done regarding the men they were with -- and the anger issues they have after the fact.
When I started college, I met several sweet-natured, small-town girls who were virgins. They were 17 and 18, but looked (and behaved) much younger. THESE are the girls we should be instructing marriage-minded young men to date. I avoided them for a bunch of reasons -- but the main one was that I felt I was too young and needed to experience "real life" first, whatever than meant.
But the problem is that you don't meet these kinds of girls as life progresses onward. Someone else has "wifed them up," as the expression goes. Yes, you can try to date younger, but that brings up other issues.
Get in on the ground level. We need to tell boys this -- specifically and directly. 100 percent of the virginal girls I referenced got married and stayed married. And they still look young and fantastic still, partially because of genetics but also partially because they never lived lives of hard partying and hard living.
We need today's fathers to talk to their sons about this, and talk about it in a realistic way. Too many dads of the past could only talk about grades or finance. Had I gotten even a smidgen of proper advice, my life could have gone a lot better. As it was in my house, whenever the topic veered from grades or money, the yelling started because anything regarding women was considered frivolous and/or irresponsible. I wonder how many other boys deal with this?
But here is a message to today's dads: Neglecting to instruct your son about women is as irresponsible as not talking to him about grades or finance. Because the wrong woman will end up costing him more -- and all the benefits of his education and savings account will go directly to her.
How fortuitous that this is posted the day after I have a little exchange with a particular female on OkCupid about this very issue? After saying they were "mostly" boyfriends, plus "one or two" guy friends, she gives me the defensive word salad:
So what if they grew out of that phase of life? Take up celibacy or something. I mean in college I had a few years of things I may not be proud of but they didn't define me and I learned from them. I've grown up a lot. Now that I'm 27 though I've also learned not to judge people like I probably did back then. It's not my place....So, you think you're like God, who is technically the only one who can judge? Coming from a Christian school I figure you have heard that. I went to a Christian school growing up so I know a good bit as well. But I also have learned from going to a public university that you meet people from all walks of life, everybody is different and if they have a past but they've learned from it and have changed, that's all I could ask for.
@DaysOfBrokenArrows: You and me both.
I know a girl who is somewhat redpilled and had a lot of sexual partners before settling down with her boyfriend. Her way of coping with it is to utterly reject feminism and to consider herself inferior to her boyfriend and devoted to serving him. A little extreme but it seems to be working. Now consider that any girl you date with a lot of partners is going to be much, much worse than "seems to be working".
high mileage cooter is just as bad as high mileage engines. Actually even worse, cause you can buy an overhaul kit and get the engine good as new. They haven't invented a cooter kit yet.
"Now that I'm 27 though I've also learned not to judge people like I probably did back then. It's not my place..."
Really? Tell her your 5'5," earn $14K a year, and have no car. Then watch her magically find her "judgi-ness" again. Judgement, of course, is sexism when applied to women but "standards" when applied to men. This and this alone exposes the difference between our world and the world of our parents.
This thread does not sound like alpha game at all ... too much whining about a non-virginal females.
If a woman doesn't want to answer that question that means she thinks the number is too high. I say trust her instincts on this and behave accordingly.
Yup.
Any answer she gives you is going to be a lie.
Yes but the way she tells her lie will be informative.
I mean in college I had a few years of things I may not be proud of but they didn't define me
Oh yes they did. You are not the only one who gets to "define you". If you had too many dicks inside you, then I am going to define you as a slut.
This thread does not sound like alpha game at all ... too much whining about a non-virginal females.
Alpha has no problem with sluts... for pump and dump. Marrying them is out of the question, though. And the dearth of marriage-worthy, non-slutty women is a real problem.
I've answered more than a few of these... I love it when they try to shame a man for all the tail they've passed out. Kind of like shaming someone for asking "Have you ever been convicted of a felony" when applying for a job....
So what if they grew out of that phase of life?
You didn't you just got older
Take up celibacy or something.
Buy some cats.
I mean in college I had a few years of things I may not be proud of
Yeah - there are many people in prison who can say that too...
but they didn't define me and I learned from them.
People are defined by their actions. You haven't learned this therefore you haven't learned anything.
I've grown up a lot.
You've gotten old and your trying to justify high value when its obviously low given the number of men you've shagged.
Now that I'm 27 though I've also learned not to judge people like I probably did back then.
So despite mercilessly judging men on all manner of things when you were younger and hotter *now* you demand not to be judged now that the shoe is on the other foot?
It's not my place....
It was - just a few years ago - and you enjoyed it and reveled in it.
So, you think you're like God, who is technically the only one who can judge?
GOD judges you to be a whore by your actions - that's his word not mine and he tells men to avoid such.
Coming from a Christian school I figure you have heard that.
And only that apparently... what about the order to be chaste and not ride the cock carousel before marriage? Was that optional reading in your "Christian" school?
I went to a Christian school growing up so I know a good bit as well.
But applied none of it.
But I also have learned from going to a public university that you meet people from all walks of life, everybody is different and if they have a past but they've learned from it and have changed, that's all I could ask for.
Nonsense you're making excuses for bad behavior that has left you scarred for life and totally worthless as wife material. May you and Mr. Tiddlesworth be very happy together.
Perhaps the girl should have told the guy "I'll tell you after you've told me how many women YOU have had."
There is a verse in Proverbs that warns young men to avoid sex with prostitutes because the first experience of sex will never be forgotten. Maybe both partners should be virgins? Maybe that is why marriages were arranged by parents back in that day.
Interesting that a man can cat around as much as he likes and think he remains unmarked...
Interesting that a man can cat around as much as he likes and think he remains unmarked...
A lion is a good lion if he catches a lot of deer. A deer is a shitty deer if it keeps getting caught by a lion. Or something.
Others' lives are enigmas to me.
Everything we do becomes a part of us...forever. A man who has bedded numerous girls will "keep" bits and pieces of every encounter, and they will well-up in his memory, contaminating his present.
The notion that a man can screw around and then wife up a virgin, but the woman who screws around is forever tainted is simply absurd. One of my friends whose marriage blew up recounted to me once that his wife was not the most amazing lover he'd had. That "honor" fell to a girl he banged, who (from his description) behaved like she was acting out the screenplay from a porno movie. Yeah, she was Hot Hot Hot...and f-ing with his mind ON PURPOSE. She was intentionally embedding, IMPRINTING herself as his sexual fantasy so as to taint his every ensuing encounter. It worked.
Physical intimacy (sex) serves TWO purposes: reproduction and enhancement of emotional intimacy. Casual sex habituates people (men and women alike) to break the link with emotional intimacy. It embeds memories that cheapen later intimacy, and I believe it makes it impossible to re-establish that link to emotional intimacy, rendering subsequent relationships (esp. marriage) shallow.
A marriage is a partnership to raise kids (in tag-team fashion), to take care of each other if sick, to load each other's magazines in the foxhole when the team is under assault from Outside Forces. A marriage that isn't CLOSER than any "Band of Brothers" is a vague photocopy of the goal.
Every bit of our pop culture that celebrates casual sex is geared to render unhappy people. Late marriage (post-24 to -26) is a mistake.
>The notion that a man can screw around and then wife up a virgin, but the woman who screws around is forever tainted is simply absurd
Observably the man who fools around is a less risky prospect, the biggest flight risk in marriage is the woman. Less 'playboys' have blown up marriages than 'playgirls', the effects of promiscuity on divorce risk are unbalanced. Even in the bible the importance of virginity is lopsided focusing far more on female chastity, there's no comparable Deut. 22:20-21 for men (though adultery is meted out equally Deut. 22:22).
Even in adultery it's the woman who can bring the greatest disgrace to the house in bearing another mans child and if done in secret stealing inheritance from his rightful heirs.
"Would someone out there in the internet place please help me! I was raised so bereft of a moral sense of life I have NO IDEA how many cocks is too many for a decent man looking to marry. All my experience is with men who gave me tingles and took control. I really need an answer because I've decided to settle down and get married but I never DREAMED my cock count would be a problem! What's Wrong With HIM? Why can't he just accept me as I am, like I'm accepting him as he is! I'm even LOWERING my standards to even date him because he absolutely doesn't make me tingle and I can tell he has no idea what a woman WANTS in bed. So I'm sacrificing here, too!"
So please, hit me back with an answer. What number should I tell him cause he DEFINITELY wouldn't like the truth! He's THAT kind of man."
Men shouldn't screw around either. Because it's the playboys who turn the girls into emotionless cock-hoppers in the first place.
p_q not in my view. Every man who pollutes his mind with varied sexual experiences reduces his devotion to his eventual wife. A man and woman whose only sexual memories are with each other don't have a crowd in their minds clamoring for attention.
And to those who say, "well, you'll wonder what you were missing," I can only say FOAD. Sex is easy. Each couple can discover together every aspect that interests them. Variety is a fake benefit. Those who push it should be beaten to death.
@ JP
"Men shouldn't screw around either. Because it's the playboys who turn the girls into emotionless cock-hoppers in the first place."
ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH THIS!
JP is right.
People need to literally stop "screwing around" and *GET SERIOUS* about *MARRIAGE* for the sexual relationship.
I don't have no "pity" for guys who continue to "play with" women for sex and then "complain" about the quality of the Western woman?
Quit using them for sex then, men?
If you're not part of the Solution: *YOU'RE A PART OF THE PROBLEM!*
It's that simple. Really. Amen.
~ Bro. Jed
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Casual sex appears, long term, to affect women more, and in worse ways, than it affects men. Women aren't able to shake off that hot guy as well as men can shake off the hot girl. Women aren't able to marry well after being the town bike. Men having lots of premarital sex partners doesn't seem to keep them from marrying well; if anything, it seems to make them more sexually attractive to more women which widens their pool of "available" women.
My thoughts on all this are:
A man doesn't have a right to ask her sexual history unless they're getting serious, but before they're exclusive.
Once they're getting serious and he's being asked to be exclusive with her (invest and commit), he has a right to know whatever he wants to know about her, including her sexual history.
Her refusal to answer is tantamount to an admission that it's too high. It's also her clear statement that she doesn't respect him, doesn't care about his sensibilities, and doesn't appreciate even the least bit the enormity and gravity of the risk she's asking him to undertake.
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