Thursday, August 8, 2013

Reactive efficiency

I went over this young delta's set of interviews with four girls who rejected him to pan the relevant information from the useless babble.  Here is what I came up with:
  1. "It is a fact of life that women know within seconds of meeting a man whether or not they would have sex with them.... The first time we hung out we had sex."
  2. "I guess I'd know if I'm attracted to someone from the very beginning.... It's a matter of pheromones.... It's out of your control, man."
  3. "When we started talking, I definitely knew that he wasn't disqualified, which a lot of people are."
  4. "You weren't ugly. You're just not my type. We just didn't click. If that doesn't happen immediately, it never does." 
Translation: a woman may not always know that she's willing to have sex with you immediately, but she immediately knows if she has disqualified you from the set of all men with whom she is willing to have sex.

Conclusion: as soon as you even suspect that a woman may have disqualified you, NEXT her and move on to the next one.  When in doubt, NEXT.  If you're not sure, NEXT. If it's a little confusing, NEXT.  If she's sending mixed signals, NEXT. If you are getting anything but genuine enthusiasm to see you, unnecessary touching, and enthusiastic physical contact, NEXT.  Do not hesitate, ever.  No more than two dates should ever be necessary to make this determination from the male perspective.

Here is why this philosophy works even if you were being overly harsh and she didn't actually disqualify you.  By rejecting her and moving on, her perception is that you disqualified her, thereby raising your status vis-a-vis her own.  Furthermore, by rejecting her, you've burned a place for yourself in her brain ; women remember men who reject them far more vividly than the other way around, because it doesn't happen anywhere nearly as often to them.

So, ironically, if a woman is not definitely and immediately interested in you, and clearly signaling that interest, your best move is to NEXT her. Your worst move is to try to qualify yourself to her; the harder you try, the less progress you are going to make.  Instead, cut contact and move on to the next possibility. If you run into her later, or if she pursues contact with you and demands to know why you didn't keep pursuing her, just tell her, quite honestly, that she didn't seem particularly interested in you. Naturally, you didn't see any point in spending time with someone who wasn't interested when you could be spending it with women who actually are interested.

You may be surprised at how much more interested she will be the second time around, so long as you maintain your frame.  And if she still isn't indicating any renewed interest, then congratulate yourself for saving time, money, and opportunity cost.

29 comments:

haus frau said...

Very true. In my before marriage life I disqualified a number of very nice, highly appropriate dating relationships. I tried to be interested. I wanted to be interested. The spice just wasn't there. They were too nice and I needed the drama. One things for sure, don't ever beg a woman for attention or argue with her lack of interest. Neediness in men is pathetic.

JCclimber said...

Another one for the time machine, to send back to my (early) teen years.

Doing my best to teach these lessons to my son.

JCclimber said...

Also validated by encountering exes via Facebook or running into them years later. The ones which you broke up with, or harshly rejected, have a VERY different picture of you in their minds than the ones who broke it off with you.

It is 180 degrees opposite of the way the male mind works, which is why it took so many of us so long to put the facts together, (plus the fact that most of those around us continue to pump the blue pill lies).

mmaier2112 said...

It's hard from 1000 miles away, but I'm trying to get my 14yr old nephew to get this stuff bit by bit.

Funny enough, he was rejecting girls left and right out of sheer disinterest and having them pawing at the door. Now he's getting interested and getting frustrated.

Women...

NATHANIEL MANELLA said...

I'm [overweight]. Being [fat] has definitely cut out some options for me. It’s like, fuck, I can't control that shit. I’ve lost a bunch of weight, but I’ll always be a [big girl] 

And neither can the [guys] you're striking out with. It's not like they're just being a dicks."

In what world would this convoy not go over like a turd in the punchbowl when gender reversed thusly?

rycamor said...

NATHANIEL MANELLA said...

I'm [overweight]. Being [fat] has definitely cut out some options for me. It’s like, fuck, I can't control that shit. I’ve lost a bunch of weight, but I’ll always be a [big girl]

And neither can the [guys] you're striking out with. It's not like they're just being a dicks."

In what world would this convoy not go over like a turd in the punchbowl when gender reversed thusly?


Except its even more ironic than a simple reversal. Everyone can control their weight. Everyone. It's simple physics. It may be harder for some than others, but the truth is it can be done if one has the willpower.

Stickwick Stapers said...

In my before marriage life I disqualified a number of very nice, highly appropriate dating relationships.

Women often say these guys "look good on paper." That means these guys have many of the qualities a woman is conditioned to say she finds attractive*, and yet, mysteriously, she doesn't actually find them attractive.

The problem for non-Red Pill men is that they take what women say at face value. Here's a classic example. Dr. Laura posts a question to her FB page every morning and reads some of the answers on air. Today's question is "What do you find attractive about your spouse?" Predictably, none of the answers from women are about sexual appeal, but instead are about relationship appeal. "He shares in the housework," "he plays with the kids," "he's thoughtful," etc. Thousands of poor delta schmucks listening to the show are going to think the way to attract a woman is by doing all of these beta things, and they're going to be frustrated when none of it works. If women understood the nature of the question and their own feminine natures, the real answers would be "he has muscles," "he doesn't give in to my irrational behavior," "he chops wood with his shirt off," etc., and these would be helpful. But so far none of the female commenters have offered such answers.

* These are beta qualities (in Athol's sense). Necessary for a relationship, but insufficient.

Bobby Dupea said...

First off, I thought the way to win with women was to be The Good Man, and candidly (and contrary to Game), sometimes it was. However, 50% of the time it was a road trip to Blueballsville. So I had to do research on how to evaluate female interest. How to tell? Research suggests that even they can't accurately measure their own interest in a given man, or explain why or wherefore they have interest.

So I read Doc Love, the columnist who emerged in the 90's. He made a very simple point that The Good Man hadn't absorbed (since The Good Man met his ex- at 19 and subsequently never dated until some mysterious thing call hypergamy moved in for the summer -- 20+ years later).

On the first date, as Vox notes, the woman decides if she is going to reject the man. She may not be decided in respect of sleeping with him, or falling in love with him, but she *knows* if she is rejecting him. The man's job is to find out if he's been rejected. That's really it. Buy a drink, buy dinner: you're buying a decision on future interest. It's not always easy because in some social circles there remain women with manners, charm and an obligation to be witty over dinner -- even if they have no romantic interest. So you may think they like you, when in fact they just have class.

So Doc Love broke it down, and this is accurate to five nines (99.99999%) of the time: Kiss her on the lips at the conclusion of the date. If she turns and you get the cheek, turn around, delete her info, and GTFO. You're rejected. She kisses you back? You're in the mix. Onward.

Of course, there are still psychos who kiss you back on the lips and next week say LJBF, before taking you home the week following for some funny business. But just kiss her on the lips on the first date; it never produces a false negative.

P.S. And to attempt public humility: I've let one woman friendzone me in the past 10 years or so. Prior to the friendzoning there were remarkable benefits that only accrue in NYC with a 6'1" model from rural America, where you also happen to have a place. So I capitulated, I was her 'walker' for a couple of years. When we last met we were at the Garden watching a certain midwestern university's basketball team. Later we went out for drinks.

I told her that I knew I was in the friendzone and WTF? etc. Just like the loser in Vox's anecdote. Very weak. She said, "Oh no. It's me not you. If only I had done what you did, I'd have children, I'd be divorced by now and I'd be retired." Then she planted full frontal wet kisses on my face and started weeping without control. Then I said, "C'mon P*****. This is over the top. You're pretending to be waiting for me while I wait for you, so that I'll wait for you some more and take you to "21" once a month."

So Doc Love is not perfect. Golddigging mega-female-game-playing Park Avenue golddiggers might play with your heart. And they may or may not be worth it. But in support of his model, she didn't give me a false negative; her kisses just described a strategy of inventorying a culturally consistent, acceptable backup in case she can't land her billionaire. She threw me a few extremely memorable evenings before I terminated all contact.

Bobby Dupea said...

Stickwick, agreed. The qualities that women say they want (when publicly queried or when they are posting a man-request online) include such things as "recycles and composts". It's some strange competitive virtue-ladder that they are climbing. None of it's true.

The women who fall over for me on first blush are UMC or UC liberal intellectuals. I carry, own a diesel pickup and an overpowered carbon pumping german sports car, and think charity is destructive and the IRS is a criminal organization. The liberal girls fall like trees before Georgia Pacific. (The libertarian or conservative girls go "okay, what's the phony redneck thing supposed to mean, eh?")

haus frau said...

If women understood the nature of the question and their own feminine natures, the real answers would be "he has muscles," "he doesn't give in to my irrational behavior," "he chops wood with his shirt off," etc., and these would be helpful. But so far none of the female commenters have offered such answers.


For some, it's a form of false humility. It's not the picture they want to paint for a stranger. If these women are still married, it's possible that's why they stay with him but all these warm fuzzy attributes are not why they got with him to begin with. You're right, these answers are disingenuous at best and absolutely no help to any single male reader.

Stickwick Stapers said...

The women who fall over for me on first blush are UMC or UC liberal intellectuals. I carry, own a diesel pickup and an overpowered carbon pumping german sports car, and think charity is destructive and the IRS is a criminal organization. The liberal girls fall like trees before Georgia Pacific.

As you probably already know, they fall like trees because those things make you an asshole by definition, and that's attractive to women. Now, if you want to attract a right-wing woman, you've got to find something that makes you an asshole in her eyes without making her lose respect for you (which rules out adopting liberal traits). Since most women -- even right-wing women -- have bought into feminist ideology on some level, probably all it would take is saying something like the 19th amendment should be repealed. When she inevitably spazzes out on you, stay calm, show her how women voting is actually at odds with her stated principles, and no matter how irritated she gets, have fun with it and don't back down. It's practically guaranteed to generate some pleasurable sparks for her.

Ben Cohen said...

How do you know if a girl has rejected you on the first date if you're not allowed to touch a girl?

River Cocytus said...

@Stickwick

Religious zealotry, gardening, painting, poetry, writing and music will do it. You know, things 'right wing' men are supposedly not good at.

Unabashed love of showtunes. Tell her how much you adore the color pink; did she know that along with purple it was a color of royalty? It was a color of strength and pure power.

Talk about the fork as the symbol of civilization. Tell her about who would hang if you were king.

The normal 'macho' stuff is only 'asshole' in a very superficial manner. You. Must. Go. Deeper.

Seriously though, I love pink. The rose is blood strained through the tears of the enemy's mourning women.

Vox said...

How do you know if a girl has rejected you on the first date if you're not allowed to touch a girl?

Why are you dating at all? If you're going that route, cut to the chase and have a marriage arranged. I don't see how you can effectively combine the love marriage and the no contact with women tradition.

Stickwick Stapers said...

RC,

It's worth a shot. My only advice would be to present those ideas in a way that's not reminiscent of Sheldon Cooper's lecturing or Cliff Clavin's "it's a little-known fact" manner.

Seriously though, I love pink. The rose is blood strained through the tears of the enemy's mourning women.

You probably have a good shot at getting the preferred reaction if you express your admiration for pink that way, as opposed to saying you like it, because it reminds you of puppydogs' noses and your mom's favorite dress. Then again, if you're Conan the Barbarian, the incongruity might work in your favor.

yttik said...

"Furthermore, by rejecting her, you've burned a place for yourself in her brain ; women remember men who reject them far more vividly than the other way around.."

This is correct. It's been more than 30 years and I still remember this guy who told me I was just too serene. I may appear serene on the surface out in public, but obviously I am anything but serene. I still sometimes try to puzzle out WTH that meant. He's now married to someone else and I'd ask him about it, but I bet he doesn't even remember saying it.

River Cocytus said...

Stickwick,

It already worked. My wife is perhaps more right wing than I am.

JA Novac said...


I would take rejecting a woman one step further, it massages the ego a bit to be able to just shut down a woman who is clearly trying to get between the sheets (or on top of the kitchen table, or random park bench etc) with you.

What percentage of males would ever know what it feels like to flat out reject a piece of tail from an attractive woman? It also will teach a more refined approach and quality control.

yttik said...

I think have just solved my own riddle. The man who rejected me and claimed I was too serene, simply didn't believe he was worthy of me. He then went on to prove he didn't believe he was worthy of much, by hooking up with half a dozen other women who took him to the cleaners.

He was right, he wasn't worthy of me. He was darn close, but no cigar. It wasn't his fault, I am simply a real pain in the ass.

He did eventually figure it out and win the game. If you don't believe you're worthy, she sure never will.

aionbest said...

if a woman is not definitely and immediately interested in you, and clearly signaling that interest, your best move is to NEXT her. Your worst move is to try to qualify yourself to her; the harder you try, the less progress you are going to make. Instead, cut contact and move on to the next possibility. If you run into her later, or if she pursues contact with you and demands to know why you didn't keep pursuing her, just tell her, quite honestly, that she didn't seem particularly interested in you. Naturally, you didn't see any point in spending time with someone who wasn't interested when you could be spending it with women who actually are interested.buy elo boost
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Kelby Carlson said...

I actually came to this conclusion several weeks ago, based on my experiences in college. It also makes things much less complicated for me specifically, because I'm blind (and thus there are certain signals I'll likely miss) and so ditching at the first sign of anything negative seems like the smart thing to do. (Although, I get the sneaking sense from most women I meet that a disability like mine serves as an automatic disqualifier--it lowers instant status value, and no, having a service dog does not "make up" for the deficit; I'd be interested to know if I'm on the right or wrong track with this observation.

haus frau said...

Unfortunately, you are certainly on the right track with this assumption. Whatever your personality is underneath the disability, it is still more than most woman are ready to deal with. Chasing someone who isn't enthusiastic in this case just makes the rejection more awkward all around.

cailcorishev said...

DeAngelo had a nice line: "Give her the gift of missing you." If she's interested but didn't show it clearly yet for some reason, the best way to help her make up her mind is to remove yourself from her presence. Let her worry that she might be missing her chance, and let her imagination build you up better than the real thing.

James Wodehouse said...

Ok, you're in a bar/coffee shop/on the street, etc...You've opened a girl. After a few minutes of chat you sense she is disqualifying you.

What's the best way to reject her so:
a)she knows you've rejected her
b)you don't come off as butthurt resentful thus killing any chance of future bang

???

mmaier2112 said...

James, you're kind of on the wrong blog for that sort of question. The general air of this blog is an intellectual approach for Game.

Vox' last two paragraphs say all you need to know. Be blunt, be direct.

Just for illustration, I had a GF dump me thrice over a number of years. I never got emotional any time she did so. The closest was the first time when I resorted to asking her dispassionately "If I didn't know better, I'd swear you were TRYING to piss me off so I'd dump YOU and you don't have to bother dumping me."

She got sheepish and said that's exactly what she'd been doing.

I asked "So you want to break up?"

She nodded yes.

I said "Okay, then."

No anger, no "butthurt". And that's probably exactly why we got back together twice after that.

toffeehammer said...

It is useful for men to make female friends and acquaintances with whom you have no romantic nor sexual desire.

The corrolary is that it is not useful for men to befriend women otherwise.

One occupational hazard of such friendships is that a man's disinterest may lead to such women (unbeknownist to themselves) developing an inclination toward him; I can count on one hand the number of female friendships I have had that did not eventually burn out on her end, despite our friendship starting with the utmost sincerity of being "just friends".

A man should not mourn such ends; a man should be seeking other man for his closest and most cherished friendships.

toffeehammer said...

James, you probably encounter thousands of women in a typical year. I certainly do, whether driving in traffic, picking up slightly overroasted coffee at my favourite coffee shop, or attending Sunday School at church.

You doubtless do not make a conscience effort to reject all of these women. Instead, you retreat from them with casual indifference. There is no need for a woman to consciously know she's been "rejected"; consider it a challenge you are offering to her to figure out on her own that your indifference is actually rejection.

James Wodehouse said...

>>"consider it a challenge you are offering to her to figure out on her own that your indifference is actually rejection. "

Yes, of course. But there are a great many instances where preemptive disqualification actually leads to intensified interest--flipping the tables if you will.

Just walking off robs her of the chance to qualify herself.

So, phrases anyone?

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