In other words, she met him at a young and formative age, went to school with him for four years, and she still doesn't even remember him. The kid was certainly disillusioned, but it wasn't an illusion he built in his own mind, it was an illusion he was fed by the people around him. The fact that his first crush doesn't remember him doesn't minimize the consequences of her actions, rather, it proves the relevance of Game and the need for it in order to understand the socio-sexual dynamics that contributed to the recent tragedy.A model who the California gunman Elliot Rodger named as his "first crush" and vilified in his twisted manifesto as an "evil b----" is said to be distraught. According to her relations Monette Moio met Rodger at school when she was just 10 and doesn't even remember him.
In his manifesto titled "My Twisted World" the deranged young man, who killed six people in Isla Vista, Santa Barbara, last week, claimed that Miss Moio had teased him when they were children and "wounded me deeply"....
"The whole thing is so creepy. It's scary even though he's gone. She doesn't even remember this guy. She's always been the most delicate kid you'd ever want to meet. For him to call her a bully, this kid was really disillusioned. She was 10 years old. It was just an illusion this kid built in his own mind. She hadn't seen him since seventh grade."
Rodger was, quite literally, beneath Moio's notice in junior high school. Like many pretty, popular girls do, she probably expressed her amusement and disdain when Rodger, a gamma at best, attempted to interact with her in some clumsy manner. There would be no reason for her to remember doing so, she probably treated every boy of insufficient socio-sexual rank at school the same way. Nor can she be reasonably criticized for behaving in that manner, as it is as much a natural aspect of establishing and policing the socio-sexual hierarchy as the alpha boys pushing around the deltas and the low deltas tormenting the omegas.
I daresay everyone remembers the individual with whom they were first enthralled at a young age. I can still remember each of the four girls I liked in elementary school and junior high. I was more fortunate, I think, in that the girl on whom I had a particular crush was friendly and kind, although she did not return my interest at the time.
98 comments:
We''re all gammas in junior high. Some of us outgrow it. Some walow in it.
Yep. I still remember the first girl I had a crush on. It never totally went away, until I ran into her 30 years later and saw her with 3 kids and an extra 50 pounds. I suppose I was lucky too, in that she was very nice and never mean about rejecting me, although that didn't help with my white-knight tendencies any.
Back when I first discovered Game, I ran across a guy whose theory was that a guy's alpha/beta status depends a lot on what happens the first time he tries to kiss a girl. If she kisses him back, he learns to enjoy approaching girls and becomes alpha. If she rejects him, he learns to see approaching as risky and becomes a beta. Obviously it's more complicated than that, but there's probably some truth to the idea that your first success or failure at something that intense and important affects your perspective.
And then you get the guy whose brain is wired such that when he's rejected -- even nicely or by rote on the girl's part -- he takes it as ultimate humiliation and starts plotting revenge.
Met in 5th grade and has not seen him since 7th grade, so what? I don't remember a lot of people I went to school with. I kept a very low profile in high school and years later met a woman whom I went to high school with who thought I had moved away years before. I didn't take it personally, and she was a 5 at best.
Did she even know he had a crush on her? Maybe the reason she does not remember him is that he never spoke to her. I don't know how large the school was, but in a school of 2000 with about 700 in each class, there are people you never know.
I was invisible in high school, but my chemistry partner was an 8/9 and a very popular at school. She was always nice to me and said hello to me in the halls in front of her friends and would even stop to chat with me. I worked in a restaurant with a 9 whom I went to high school with (extremely popular), and she was nice to me and acknowledged me in the halls at school also. It could be that this guy was simply weird from the get-go and put off that sort of vibe.
I think you are projecting a lot on this girl.
W. F. Price said it best, he was an upper-mlddle class kid around kids of the super rich. He could not compete socially or monetarily. Go to www.the-spearhead.com and read the post entitled, "Eliot Rodgers' Story: The Toll of the 6th Deadly Sin." He was consumed by envy.
This was entirely Eliot Rodgers fault. The Telegraph just sexed this up to see papers and generate site traffic.
Forgot to add that my first crush didn't even know I existed and I never held that against her. We never had classes together, etc....
Game would not have helped this guy at all, and I think Game is the solution to a lot of men's problems.
Did she even know he had a crush on her?
If she doesn't remember him, obviously not. However, it is unlikely that he never spoke to her, since he specifically mentions her teasing him. The likely reason she is distraught is that she does remember him and she knows how she behaved towards him. Which is to say the way most pretty girls behave towards most losers who dare to try to talk to them: contemptuously.
Well, that or she's just milking the media attention.
This was entirely Eliot Rodgers fault.
The fact that an individual is wholly responsible for his actions doesn't eliminate the other factors that contributed to the incident playing out as it did. If someone had given him plutonium, he probably would have killed more than six people. If a girl had simply made out with him at some point, he might not have killed anyone.
This is a Game blog, Bob Wallace. We're not discussing the basic concepts here, we are utilizing them. You don't have to agree and you certainly don't have to read or comment here.
@cailcorishev
This guy wasn't even rejected! I'm nearly finished reading his diatribe. Over and over and over, the rejection is entirely in his own mind. In his entire bitter life, it sounds like he made what could be taken as perhaps one or two extremely weak approaches, at best. He wanted friends of either sex to just happen, due to his own spectacular fabulousness.
He had no shortage of narcissism, and was clearly psychopathic. He even understood to some degree what women found attractive. All he missed for the Dark Triad trifecta was Machiavellianism.
The writing is extremely pedantic and juvenile, but the level of memory recall and detail is impressive. In my opinion, he really did have some raw writing talent. Too bad work (literally any kind of work) was beneath him.
Vox, have you read it? The bitterness is on every page (strong hint of gamma), but his complete ineptness with men too does tilt the scale towards omega.
Yes, I can see the importance of game to get him on track, and if he had a chance with a woman, things might have been better. But I can see some problems with the argument in general, nonetheless. Taken to an inappropriate level, naïve women who chase bad boys for the drama might start to see mentally ill men like these as those they should try to save and rescue. This idea would be wrong on so many levels. The average person, man or woman, is not competent to save a man like this, who went so far down the rabbit hole as to be out of touch with reality. It is certainly possible that he had manifested some aspects of his burgeoning mental illness at that age, or at least, some sort of disorder, the Asperger's. That alone might have pushed his crush away, that he was seriously "off." Now, at the time, could she have been gracious in her rejection, could she have been friendly, nonetheless? Absolutely. But I'm not sure what else she might have done without getting herself into a situation with a child who might have been very scary.
It is rather strange how clearly you can remember school crushes but everyone else becomes a blur after that (and I'm not referring to drinking in college, as I was as fundamentalist teetotaler as you could get back then).
I approached about a dozen girls between 5th and 8th grade with zero success. I don't remember the names of all of them, but save one they were gracious in their rejection. The one that looked at me like she would rather eat her own feces, I remember that quite clearly.
I was extremely timid and shy when young. Didn't even kiss a girl until I was 18. I got the crazy notion to go the prom my senior year. I asked out several girls I knew. Their rejections were universally sweet and polite. This kid's sense of rejection was entirely self-inflicted, since he was never the subject of an actual rejection.
In the omega-leaning mind, I'm not sure there's much difference between approaching and being rejected (and humiliated) and not approaching because the image of the expected rejection is so tangible.
I don't think one should venture an opinion (for or against) if they haven't experienced what this kid went through. Constant sexual rejection is one of the most devastating things that could happen to a young boy trying to come to grips with how life works. It would have been exacerbated by the fact that he was probably socially awkward to begin with and probably never had any friends to build his self-confidence. The narcissistic traits are things one develops after the fact. They are signs of emotional over-compensation for what is quite obviously deeply entrenched pain and loneliness.
Each rejection would have pushed him deeper inside his own world and fueled his paranoia. And in the absence of good friends or someone to talk to, that's a tragedy waiting to happen. Most kids who finally snap take their own lives and never get the exposure this kid got. What makes this different is that he decided to take others with him.
One should never underestimate the importance of having good friends and role models. Nor the ability of Jesus to take away the suffering, if you would only ask. At least that's what I personally experienced.
I've gotten more nuclear rejections than I care to recount, in addition to pretty much every other form of rejection.
And I never killed anyone.
And I think I know the difference between me and this guy: My parents raised me to not let any one thing become the sole focus of my life, and that I was not entitled to anything. Oh, and "Parents" - plural.
This kid was never told that he had to earn a damned thing. If he wanted it, he got it. And when the world finally said no, he had the mother of all temper tantrums.
No crushes as such. Too many girls to remember by name. There were a couple of girls in my neighborhood, including the cute heiress of a well-known supermarket family.
In what was apparently my earliest sexual harassment case, in 4th grade I was reported to the teacher for kissing the girls, which resulted in my father sitting me down and having a talk.
This didn't put much of a damper on my girl-chasing activities. In fact the girls were all too eager to kiss me and show me their goods, which resulted in my being made quite aware at an early age of the details of the female anatomy.
I do remember, however, the names (and other details) of a couple of teenage babysitters, and a young nanny.
"... it proves the relevance of Game and the need for it in order to understand the socio-sexual dynamics that contributed to the recent tragedy..."
Perhaps. Or perhaps it's an example of why it is so dangerous for men to believe that their identity and sense of self worth can be found in socio-sexual dynamics.
Or perhaps it's an example of why it is so dangerous for men to believe that their identity and sense of self worth can be found in socio-sexual dynamics.
It would be essentially impossible to not believe that, except by being a natural alpha and therefore thinking his position as much a given as the air he breathes. Or being severely autistic and therefore not even being aware of its existence. Or by being very old, and past all that.
For any other man, impossible, I daresay.
Thankfully, most attractive girls in elementary and high school made themselves unattractive to me. I did not want anything to do with them. They were ugly on the inside. The less attractive girls weren't appealing either. The end result was not going to the prom. I still don't regret not going to the prom. Some kids were much faster than me. It was quite a spectacle for me to notice how some were able to get girlfriends and date and others don't have any action at all. Yet at the same time, the years went very fast and it doesn't matter much in life; however, some people still wallow in such things, but I've moved on. Another theory is I blocked out my bad memories. Maybe that saved me.
Or perhaps it's an example of why it is so dangerous for men to believe that their identity and sense of self worth can be found in socio-sexual dynamics.
All men do that. Only a rare few surmount it. Deal with it.
"It would be essentially impossible to not believe that.."
But Markuu, ones sense of self worth cannot come exclusively from where they stand in the socio-sexual dynamic. This is true for both men and women. Your entire identity cannot be wrapped around your sexuality because at any moment you stand to lose your place and then you will completely lose your self.
Still, for those of us who are still too young and the wounds perhaps to sore to have figured this out by now, we must never be offended by the fact that no woman (except possibly our mothers) is ever going to feel empathy for a male's low position on the socio-sexual hierarchy. Because, ask yourself, do you feel genuine empathy for an obese woman or girl who is crying? I mean, absolutely crying her eyes out for all the rejections she has suffered through? Perhaps you're a Christian and you feel you kinda should. But can you get yourself to do it, to feel actual pain for her? I'm going to say, probably not.
Well, what obesity does for us, DLV's do to women. The repulsion is just too great to overcome even through a conscious effort. And only a truly Christian woman would even have a logical reason to TRY. Anyone else would, perfectly logically, conclude that this is just biology, and as fine (except perhaps aesthetically unpleasing in polite society) as farting.
But Markuu, ones sense of self worth cannot come exclusively from where they stand in the socio-sexual dynamic.
Since you say "sense", then you are flat-out wrong. It can, and it does.
Maybe I'm misreading this article, but are you saying that this ten year old girl's actions are in some way responsible?
of course this girl doesn't remember what she said to him. this is true of all bullies. they never remember how awful they were to the people they bullied. especially girls, who view boys as being invisible. but they will feel what it's like when they hit the wall.
Kudos to Paul at VP, who noticed this in the Telegraph article:
The controversy came as it emerged Rodger is quickly acquiring an army of sick female fans who have come out in praise of the shooter despite his mass killing.
Perversely, many of them are from the very demographic - young women - that caused him to foster such growing hatred because of his failure to strike relationships with them in life.
Rodger carried out a deadly gun and knife rampage near Santa Barbara, California - killing six people and then apparently himself - after emailing the manifesto to his parents and therapist.
Now THIS is just too rich! He FINALLY figured out the way to get some MAJOR tail, and then he had to go and kill himself in the process!
are you saying that this ten year old girl's actions are in some way responsible?
No. And I'm not saying that her 14 year-old actions were responsible either. But they clearly did have some unexpected and unforeseen consequences down the road.
But Markuu, ones sense of self worth cannot come exclusively from where they stand in the socio-sexual dynamic.
GG, for your own sake, shut the fuck up. You're a woman. You don't even understand how you tick, and you clearly have no idea how men tick.
The richest, most successful, most handsome man in the world will be laughed at if he is paired up with a fat, ugly woman. There is NOTHING that defines a man's social status like his woman. Not money, not fame, nothing.
GG, you must be a woman. Any man understands implicitly that part of his identity as a man is how well he interacts with, succeeds with, and attracts, women. It is hardwired into us. If you were a man, you would understand that. Our positions on the hierarchy are well understood by us, and by those above and below us. A man knows very well where he falls into that hierarchy. Part of Eliot Rodger’s problem was in my view his inability to understand how that hierarchy works, and his refusal to accept his position in that hierarchy, and his failure to acknowledge that he could do things to change his position in that hierarchy.
I'm of the belief that no amount of Game could have helped this sad individual. Perhaps had he been younger and his father bothered to teach him (his father appears to be an Alpha), he might have stood a chance. As it happens, this guy was the typical progressive in attitude and manner. He believed that the world owed him and he let Envy rule his life.
Yes RobertW, you are misreading the post.
Vox is not saying that this girl is responsible for a mass murder. He is saying that the visceral and instinctive hypergamy of females makes it highly likely and completely logical that this very pretty and highly socially ranked girl would have virtually zero recollection of an awkward gamma boy. Not only does she admit that, but it is also likely that whatever interaction the two had, it was completely inconsequential to her and she may have even brushed him off in a rude or even cruel manner, as the boy claims. It is all but guaranteed she does remember, and could likely recount in detail, many of her interactions with alphas or the more attractive and highly ranked males in her junior high years.
It is also likely that she treated the kid like shit, as so often happens when young, emotionally immature, classless, teenage females are approached by unwanted gammas or omegas. No one here is saying that is an excuse for murder, but it will certainly emotionally wound an already emotionally and mentally weak gamma/omega boy. He was clearly never capable nor ever taught how to deal with emotional wounds like that, so they festered into the monster he became.
So no, no blame, just an explanation steeped in Game and socio-sexual theory, terminology, and truth.
One of the best parts is where the father of this girl is quoted as saying "Oh no, my girl would have never teased anyone or been cruel. Obviously this kid doesn't know anything about her."
Hahahahahahahaha. That is funny. Oh, so funny. Yes, your daughter is just a sweet little angel, isn't she? Not even capable of any such thing.
I'm of the belief that no amount of Game could have helped this sad individual.
Have you seen the video, with his pathetic tough-guy act that we all laughed at? Well, the joke is on us; It. Still. Worked.
If only he had opted for a less murderous act. Rather, lift weights, do some martial arts. Get in some fights. Then do that very same, ridiculously transparent and fake tough guy act. It would still have worked.
It wouldn't have made him a good person, but it would have made him content enough in his life that we wouldn't have all these dead bodies.
"GG, for your own sake, shut the fuck up. You're a woman. You don't even understand how you tick, and you clearly have no idea how men tick"
With all due respect Vox Day, I know far more than you can even imagine.
"There is NOTHING that defines a man's social status like his woman. Not money, not fame, nothing. "
Yes, not just the woman, but also having regular sexual access to that woman. Women just don't even realize this -- a woman's highest compliment and affirmation to a man is her granting him regular sexual access.
The pain of rejection from this, over and over again, is acute, exquisite, debilitating and crippling. Because a man knows that being denied sexual access means that his woman, and society, will view him as less of a man.
Her fear right now is several-fold.
1) She cannot clearly recall this specific boy and specific interaction. But she is EXTREMELY aware that she has treated hundreds of boys and men in an almost identical fashion. She is wondering which of them is the next ticking time bomb that might blow up in her face. Remember, fear of personal safety in moments like this are uppermost in women's minds, whether that fear is statistically unlikely or not.
2) She is absolutely petrified that there will be blowback from her social peers and those whom she will interact with in the future that they will blame her and think of her as a bitch. Her standing in the herd is being threatened and I doubt she can even function right now from that fear and stress.
GG, for your own sake, shut the fuck up. You're a woman. You don't even understand how you tick, and you clearly have no idea how men tick.
LOL Perfect.
But she is EXTREMELY aware that she has treated hundreds of boys and men in an almost identical fashion. She is wondering which of them is the next ticking time bomb that might blow up in her face. Remember, fear of personal safety in moments like this are uppermost in women's minds, whether that fear is statistically unlikely or not.
I wonder if violent acts like this would make girls think carefully about the way they interact with lovelorn admirers, and if so, would that be a good thing?
@LBF - probably not. I don't think they're really capable of the kind of self-reflection that would lead to those thoughts.
In fact, it's far more likely that high-end girls will be even more avoidant of gammas and omegas.
de ti: "The pain of rejection from this, over and over again, is acute, exquisite, debilitating and crippling."
Hence the old saw, "Why do men die before their wives? Because he wants to."
I don't know. But then I was sexually active from five on, so... I learned, very early, if one won't, another will. And, then I learned, that as girls found out you could, especially if they "liked" who you did, they were far easier to attain. Doesn't really work for long term though. But, when you are in 8th grade... long term isn't exactly the goal, especially with all training being to the contrary. The girls I had crushes on were always older. Not really approachable. The last few years I had moved to a new school so never really did more than make a few attempts with girls in my school. I was active with other girls though, and... women. I guess I don't have a full understanding of the snot nose age, really.
Still, I think he was a putz. If a guy is that desperate, and rich, a high dollar call girl would handle his problem. Reminds me of when I hear that women used to get the vapors because they wouldn't tend their sexual needs. With women it is understandable, being social and prudish to extremes in some social situations. Not so much with men. Or big fucking babies, as I would call this one. Have pity if you wish, I have none. At 22 he should have understood a few very basic things. Beyond, psychology is a cop out, and excuse, not a reason. Glad he is dead, just wish he could have had the balls to just take himself out.
But Markuu, ones sense of self worth cannot come exclusively from where they stand in the socio-sexual dynamic.
Since you put the word "exclusively" in there, no, it shouldn't. But to a large extent, yes it does, especially at that age, and increasingly so with each failure.
By the way, it's predictable that people are calling the girls now swooning over him "sick," as if the only way a girl can be attracted to a violent psychopath is if she's crazy herself. What's funny is that that's what guys like him tell themselves when they see girls going for the bad boys: "Oh, she must be disturbed, probably abused as a child or something, so she punishes herself by dating guys who beat her and cheat on her. If she were healthy, she'd see the value of a gentleman like me." But you can only convince yourself of that for so long, as you watch apparently normal girls pass you up for the "jerks."
On a similar note, some people are saying girls must have shied away from him because they could sense that he was dangerous. Nope. Dangerous crazy attracts girls. Charles Manson was just as burn-down-the-world crazy, and he had (has?) a harem. It wasn't the crazy that scared girls away from this guy; it was the pedestalization and desperation.
No. And I'm not saying that her 14 year-old actions were responsible either. But they clearly did have some unexpected and unforeseen consequences down the road.
The girl's actions are prefectly consistent with normal middle-school girl behavior. What people should realize from this is that normal girl behavior isn't sugar and spice and anything nice. We shouldn't encourage it with "You Go Girl/Grrrrl Power!" nonsense. And, we need to think about how boys learn to deal with it. Telling them that girls are fabulous and boys are stinky is not a good way to deal with it. It's a good way to create emotionally fucked up time-bombs.
I wonder if violent acts like this would make girls think carefully about the way they interact with lovelorn admirers...
Ha.
The old proverb, no good deed goes unpunished, is especially true women.
Put then on a pedistal and they look down on you. Knocked them off it and they go down on you. Literally. I learned this much to my pleasure at 22.
GG - I'm an older female and get flustered at times reading here; more often, I'm amused and appreciation for the wit and wisdom, and gain greater respect of what very different creations we are as men and women (which has helped my 25 year marriage immensely). I have on at least one occasion written in haste. One day it dawned on me, I've never been sexually aroused by a female nor had the kind of drive for sex men have (especially young men), that men really aren't women without penises, nor are they cardboard, so I really know nothing of this, have little to contribute, and much to learn. Indeed, Christ is the answer, but most people - even those of us who consider ourselves Christian - struggle to live in this world of flesh. As said, my own relationship with my husband and son have benefitted from reading here; if I could positively influence one female based on what I've learned, I'd consider myself a useful person.
"There is NOTHING that defines a man's social status like his woman. Not money, not fame, nothing."
That's actually quite charming. While there is an element of truth to it, there is still one thing that defines a man's social status even more and that is his own perceptions of himself, how he himself perceives his social status in the world. All the gorgeous women in the world cannot give you that, although many have probably died happy trying.
This kid had money, fortune, good looks, a fancy car, and he could have been chased by dozens of girls in middle school, but unless he was willing to perceive himself as having value, it wouldn't have made any difference. Your perceptions have a way of becoming reality. This kid wrote himself a script and shaped his own reality to meet his expectations.
That's actually quite charming. While there is an element of truth to it, there is still one thing that defines a man's social status even more and that is his own perceptions of himself, how he himself perceives his social status in the world.
GG, what part of SHUT THE FUCK UP do you not understand? You obviously do not know what you are talking about. In fact, what you are saying now does not even make any sense in light of the kid's readily apparent narcissism.
If you're going to keep babbling in idiotic ignorance, I'm going to spam you. I'm not interested in your lunatic and incorrect opinions about what defines male social status.
While there is an element of truth to it, there is still one thing that defines a man's social status even more and that is his own perceptions of himself, how he himself perceives his social status in the world
You originally said SENSE of self-worth. Now, women are masters at self-deception, so they CAN just decide the facts to be whatever they wish, contrary to all the evidence. Men can't.
...and after the female teachers are through with the boys, operating from the same assumption that GG makes, they're going to be REALLY f*cked up in the head by the time they're adolescents. Queer as a clockwork orange.
Great music video about what it's like to be a Millennial at school
“there is still one thing that defines a man's social status even more and that is his own perceptions of himself, how he himself perceives his social status in the world”
Um, no.
A man’s self perceptions, and his perceptions of his own social status don’t really mean much.
A man’s social status is not self-conferred. He obtains his status from other men. Part of the status from other men includes those other men’s assessment of that man’s woman; and comparisons of that man’s woman to their own women. A man benefits socially from being with a good looking woman or hot woman because of the assessments others make of him and what he is, what he did, or what he had to be or do to “get” her.
Again: A man does not confer status on himself. Others confer it on him because of what he is, what he does, and what or who he has.
I wonder if he had attended an all boys school and was forced to go through the vigours of an exclusively male environment whether any of this would have happened.
It's a terrible thing to expose young boys to the sexual hierarchy from such a young age, where their self socio sexual value is prematurely established in an artificially constructed environment where young boys are forced to compete with peers many years older.
For lower ranking boys and omegas mixed sex education is a veritable death trap.
Personally, I think the #1 factor that determines a man's social status is the content of his diet during his formative years.
Unfiltered water with its trace amounts of endocrine disrupting chemicals and supermarket foods loaded with processed soy are most likely the root cause of this millennial madness we see sweeping the country. It's like we are performing sex change operations of boys from birth. For many kids, and I mean A LOT... some even by the age of 12 or so I still have to look long and hard before I can say with certainty what their gender is.
Case in point, the lead in in the music video Markku linked above. Jury's still out on that one.
And back to the topic at hand, Mr. Rodger, all the girls now going on about how cute he was are right. Almost.... too cute. Smooth hairless face. Full pouty lips. All-encompassing sense of entitlement. Expectation that being pretty was all that was necessary for someone to come along and make the first move. Obsession with social status and relationships. Behavior that is entirely divorced from considerations of consequences...
This... person... was 3/4 female already. Truly a lesbian trapped in a man's body. His/her/its SMV was determined more by Monsanto than anything else, I'd say.
She doesn't even remember this guy. She's always been the most delicate kid you'd ever want to meet.
She is also lying.
She is not in her fifties and it was only ten year's ago in her personal time frame. She remembers him perfectly. He had a case of oneitis over her. It was probably the first boy that felt that way about her. She undoubtedly remembers both the feelings of creepiness, as well as those of validation. She had power over a boy for the first time in her life and if his scribbling is accurate. She enjoyed it.
"Markku said...
...and after the female teachers are through with the boys, operating from the same assumption that GG makes, they're going to be REALLY f*cked up in the head by the time they're adolescents. Queer as a clockwork orange."
Urgh yes. I thought I was bad, but it's crazy as hell now with all the PC-ness in school. Check out this article and the comments. Such brainwashing should be treated as extremism. So many hardcore feminist teachers preaching it to young, impressionable kids now:
http://www.chicagonow.com/nails-on-a-chalkboard/2014/05/5-reasons-to-teach-feminism-in-high-school/
"I teach at an alternative school in Eau Claire, WI. I also try, try, try to weave feminism into my classes. Just last week we talked about how frustrating it is to be told "You're cute when you're mad" and how my female students have resorted to physical assaults when not taken seriously. I'm 56 years old and I see so many things getting worse for our girls AND boys. We cannot let them down because despite what society tells them, they still just want peaceful, happy lives."
Deti,
Just to buttress yours and Vox's evaluation of GG's comments, the former chief executive officer of my last company as part of the interview process would meet the wife of the sales manager under consideration for hiring. He considered who has sales manager married to be the most important sale he would ever make his life, and so the quality and yes the hotness of the woman he married would be a key metric on deciding whether to hire him or not.
^ Heh, what did he do if the bloke was single or unmarried.
Also if my boss (or potential boss) asked to meet my partner, I'd tell him to get fucked!
Sales is different, Bob. It wasn't a blatant "Bring your wife by, nudge nudge".
Sales is different, Bob. It wasn't a blatant "Bring your wife by, nudge nudge".
Well, did she GO? Did his wife GO, wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more.
She's a goer eh! She does enjoy sport, say no more!
Say. No. More!
Conscientia:
I've never heard of such a hiring practice, but I can't say I'm surprised. I work in the professions. Most of the men are married. I've met all my coworkers' wives. We all draw conclusions about men based on the women they're married to.
Second, it's just a ridiculous notion to think that a man's social status is premised on his self-perceptions. If that were the case, your average geekazoid gamma would be a foot stomping, snorting alpha surrounded by a harem.
No. A man's status is conferred on him by other men. Only a man can introduce a boy or young man into the company of men. A woman cannot take him there -- not even his mother can. Only the company of men decides who are men and who are not; who will have status and standing, and who do not.
All Python aside, the point is that status is actively and intentionally conferred upon men by other people. Nothing ever has intrinsic value either.
"Everything is worth what it's purchaser will pay for it."
There's also another great song on the same Porcupine Tree album: Anesthesize, which I interpret to be on the more light-hearted topic of Millennial suicide. This line is pure genius:
And because of who we are
We react in mock surprise
GG:
"That's actually quite charming. While there is an element of truth to it, there is still one thing that defines a man's social status even more and that is his own perceptions of himself, how he himself perceives his social status in the world."
Vox:
"GG, what part of SHUT THE FUCK UP do you not understand? You obviously do not know what you are talking about. In fact, what you are saying now does not even make any sense in light of the kid's readily apparent narcissism."
+1 Vox, for the apropo response. Not that you need it, but it was pleasing to see.
My 2 bits:
My first thought was Solipsism, and my next was "how like a woman to assume a man thinks the same way she does."
The female (GG) perspective is anti reality. Everything in life only has the value other people assign to it. If we took a page out of China's history and started valuing bound feet and black teeth, would GG's response be?
The fact that so many men here are foolish enough to subscribe to this false idea that their self worth comes from external sources rather than their own perceptions of themselves
See the deception on display, people? First, it was the sense of self-worth. Now, it's the actual self-worth. Textbook example of goalpost-moving.
That's just the standard, vanilla blue pill. I mean, didn't EVERY SINGLE ONE of us, except the natural alphas, try and try and try to tell ourselves exactly that? To the point of despair, even suicide? But it doesn't work. Year after year of trying, it just doesn't work. Because a man cannot just decide to believe something out of the blue, contrary to everything he is seeing, and everything others are telling him.
You either crack under the weight of the dichotomy between the paradigm and the reality, or you change your paradigm.
GG, I don't care what you think. You're solipsistic, you refuse to stop talking when it is made clear that your opinion is not wanted, and most importantly, you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
You're not blowing anyone's minds, you're just another woman who doesn't know a damn thing about the subject and doesn't let her ignorance stop her from continuing to argue about it.
You're a bloody coward, Vox Day. If you weren't such a blasted goddess worshipping sex addict, trapped in your own solipsism, you wouldn't be so afraid of my words.
There's nothing quite like having this conversation in a loop:
You: I understand what you're saying, and you're wrong.
Her: You obviously don't understand what I mean; let me repeat it several more times with even more words until you get it.
...and more insults, add to taste. Scratch a woman and you'll find a totalitarian.
you forgot to threaten not to have sex with him, GG.
"...you forgot to threaten not to have sex with him, GG."
There's a good reason women don't sleep with the Elliot Rodger's of the world.
GG... its literally insane to claim that Elliot Rodgers had self-esteem issues. What he had were delusions of grandeur that surpass even Loki's madness. Not only did he believe in his own superiority to his core... he believed to the point that it literally amazed him that others didn't instantly notice it and act on it as well.
His perception of his place in the world was on top of it... and everyone else falling all over themselves to lick his feet.
We are all Eliot Rodger.
Also... No. We were not all gamma's in middle school. I don't know about you but I got my first two girl BJ before I got to high school... by blonde twins. Tammy and Terry if you're interested. Truth or Dare was invented for a reason people.
It never occurred to me that girls weren't just as interested in sex as I was. And by the time I was 13 I had altered that assumption to "girls are far more interested in sex than I am. And that's damned scary."
No BJ for me before HS, just some naughty hands in 6th grade. I was a major shithead from a young age.
VIRs put my dad in jail for a while in the 80's, but before then we had an IRS agent who live next door to us in Los Angeles. My young 7 year old mind decided that her flowers would most likely look better arrangement be on our driveway instead of in her flower bed.
AND IT WAS SO.
I've been thinking about this whole concept of always remembering your first crush. I'm sorry but I don't. I remember there being a bunch of girls that I thought varied between cute and hot and that was about it. I felt up whatever girl happened to be sitting with me on the band bus in middle school... made out with whatever girl happened to be dancing with me... or whatever girl happened to be with me at the mall that day... fucked in the closet at the tennis academy... My brothers always told me chicks were perverts. My experiences early in life supported that observation. So that's how I treated them. I can't complain.
@ Iowahine, this one is unfortunately not willing to learn. As she's said of herself: "I know far more than you can even imagine" - the arrogance is astounding. There isn't a regular commenter here that hasn't learned a thing or two from the posts or the comments but somehow this all knowing woman has arrived here to...to what? Does she have her own blog where we can go read her superior wisdom on all things socio-sexual? Sadly it is women like this with fixed yet wrong perspectives that raise boys and confuse and frustrate the hell out of them.
It's okay, ladies, to be wrong about what we think we know about men. There's no way we could know. The least we could do is be willing to learn - especially if we have sons.
I'm just so disappointed that every time there's an incident like this, the cry is "moar feminism in schools!!"
Yeah because that's working so far. WHY do they just not see that the more they try to emasculate every male, the only few left to make "suitable" boyfriends for the girls are going to be the complete and utter arseholes (and / or natural alphas) who just don't give a toss about rules, or anyone else. The kind who also would beat or stab a lass at any opportunity.
The rest of the blokes, rather than growing up to be well-rounded men, will be beaten down with their heads full of feminist lies, and either end up fading out as useless and invisible (and society crashes without their strong contributions), or go full-on fucked up rage mode like this guy.
These are young lives being corrupted and ruined right infront of everyone's faces, purely because of their gender. It's alright saying "the man should observe", but that's kinda tough when they've been indoctrinated from such a young age their entire school lives. And with the amount of single mums around, they'll have no help at home too.
Like I said just read the comments on that fucking article a few posts back about all these women teachers bringing hardcore feminism into the classroom. Slapping down boys who playfully say "you're cute when you're angry". They're going to be scared shitless of talking to women for fear of saying the wrong thing. Play out events and rejections in their head and.. well, you can see the results.
There's still no excuses for what that boy did of course but, the way these silly bints (and their male supporters) are going about things, it could end up happening a lot more..
GG,
Until you can accept the fact that men and women are different, and think different, you'll never even begin to understand that your female point of view just not apply to men.
That's some extra knowledge for you, free of charge.
The richest, most successful, most handsome man in the world will be laughed at if he is paired up with a fat, ugly woman. There is NOTHING that defines a man's social status like his woman. Not money, not fame, nothing.
This is not a true statement.
Regarding sense of self-worth and actual self worth, this is what I would say to the person just taking the red pill.
Fact: Your position on the social totem pole will be determined by how much sexual attention you can get from women. Every man and every woman will treat you based on this metric.
Now, let's say you still choose to base your assessment of your self-worth on some other thing, and try to adjust your feelings to that choice instead? That's perfectly fine. But then you lose the right to complain about the fact that every single other person will treat you by the sexual metric. You KNEW this when you made that choice. And you decided to choose to the contrary. Now you have the responsibility to live with the consequences without annoying everybody by useless bitching, because you were fully informed about them when you made your choice.
If you still want to do it, then go ahead.
For example, monks have chosen to the contrary, put themselves in an environment where it is as easy as possible to live with the consequences, isolated themselves from me so that I can't hear them bitching, and instead make me beer.
Hey, sounds fine to me!
This is not a true statement.
Care to expound on that?
"I wonder if he had attended an all boys school and was forced to go through the vigours of an exclusively male environment whether any of this would have happened."
He did attend a Catholic all-boys school for a very short time. He thought being in a girl-free environment would help. According to his diatribe, he was mercilessly bullied there.
The kid was pretty insightful. Many times he seems to recognize some deeper truth about women. But he had serious cognitive dissonance problems.
"Care to expound on that?"
he has what he wants. it is abundantly clear that he has what he wants. I realize that to many of you pussy is all that matters in life... but to many accomplished men its just not that big a deal. There are more interesting things in life than wear their stick their dicks.
First and foremost... do you really think the owner of a fortune 500 company really gives a shit what you think of him or his wife? No. He doesn't.
Social status comes from power son. Not women.
What were our friend Tony Montana's thoughts on the subject?
"First you get the what? Then you get the what? Then last you get the woman."
When I was about 12 years old I went to a school dance and had a friend ask a boy if he would dance with me. I was smack in the middle of the worst of my awkward stage-- glasses, frizzy hair, body of an adolescent boy etc., and I was rejected-- hard. He looked at me and sneered the words "Dance? With her?!" He then laughed and walked away. That stung more than any rejection I have ever experience since then and I'm glad it happened.
When I got older and out of my awkward stage and joined the high school drill team I didn't have to approach boys to ask them for a dance but I never forgot my earlier experience and it made me far more sympathetic to the boys who did ask me out-- I never treated them the way I had been treated that one day. If I hadn't had that one experience I might not have given my husband a chance when we met (he was a busboy and I was a cocktail waitress at the restaurant we worked at) but I had learned early not to cruelly reject others.
Seems to me that not enough girls have had this character building experience and that the special snowflake syndrome is crushing the souls of a lot of young men.
Game probably confirmed everything he suspected and stripped away his illusions about women but didn't make him turn the corner and realize that women aren't evil. He thought they were liars with zero integrity who deserved to die. Game didn't quite go far enough. He shoud have realized they're liars with zero integrity mainly because of weakness, not evil. Then he would still despise them but maybe would have used them for sex instead of trying to destroy them. Or if he had a better influence in his life he could have outright hated women but still been philosophically constrained from thinking they're evil and don't deserve to live, since God created them the way they are on purpose.
I still say Elliot Rodger went on a killing spree because he was on his period. I'm willing to bet money that his therapist had him on one or more prescription meds, too.
Chemicals, I tells ya.
"GG, Until you can accept the fact that men and women are different, and think different.."
No chit Sherlock. See, unlike most of you, I actually adore men. It's the self loathing misandry of the manosphere that turns my stomach.
She is also lying.
She is not in her fifties and it was only ten year's ago in her personal time frame. She remembers him perfectly. He had a case of oneitis over her. It was probably the first boy that felt that way about her. She undoubtedly remembers both the feelings of creepiness, as well as those of validation. She had power over a boy for the first time in her life and if his scribbling is accurate. She enjoyed it.
I rather doubt this. Ask every boy in a class who his crush is... if he has one, it's probably one of the top 3 or 4 cuties. These girls probably have a dozen such boys pining over them at that age.
Self loathing misandry of the manosphere? Vox a sex addict, goddess worshipper? The hell am I reading???
See Retard, Full.
he has what he wants. it is abundantly clear that he has what he wants. I realize that to many of you pussy is all that matters in life... but to many accomplished men its just not that big a deal. There are more interesting things in life than wear their stick their dicks.
First and foremost... do you really think the owner of a fortune 500 company really gives a shit what you think of him or his wife? No. He doesn't.
Social status comes from power son. Not women.
That's more like it.
Way better than saying "This is not a true statement".
Where are the dads who should be teaching their sons about interacting with girls at that age? < /sarc>
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