I'm contemplating writing the first Alpha Game book this summer. Rather than doing my usual thing and writing an esoteric 750-page monster that mostly revolves around abstract principles, I'm going to focus on addressing, in a clear and succinct manner, the 30 primary questions that young men have concerning intersexual relations.
For example, the first question I have addressed is: Why doesn't she like me?
So, here is my question to you all. Given that the focus is on young men from 15-25, what are the questions you would most like to see addressed and answered in this book?
78 comments:
I am out of your age group, so it's very possible this question doesn't apply, but I would think men toward the top of your target would like to know what qualities to look for in a marriageable woman.
I'm curious as to what your actual thoughts on this one are:
"Should I wait to have sex until I get married?"
I'm curious whether your approach will be looking at red pill reality from a Christian perspective or are you going to focus on how a young man can increase his n count? It's your book, do with it as you will, but I would not want to have give an account to God one day on why I had written a book on how to get laid.
How to overcome feelings of jealousy/insecurity caused by a woman's sexual past. Assumption is majority of women a man meets will have experience.
Dammit, I hate it when other people come up with great ideas that seem completely obvious, yet I didn't think of them.
Maybe as a corollary to that first question: How can I get her to like me? That's really what the guy is thinking when he asks why she doesn't.
How to overcome feelings of jealousy/insecurity caused by a woman's sexual past.
Or how to recognize the above as a common shaming technique, and how to avoid letting a woman reframe his completely valid concerns about her past sluttitude as his insecurity.
I wish I knew about game when I was 15! Now that I look back I see the girls I treated horribly kept coming back for more while the ones I was attracted to, the ones I was nice to, never gave me the time of day. My question as a 15 year old: Why do nice guys finish last?
Vox-- a woman I know posted this article: "Yes, All Men: Every Man Needs to Understand Internalized Misogyny and Male Violence". It is such a complete load of BS I don't even know where to begin. I (and many others, I'm sure) would LOVE to see you sink your teeth into this one.
http://flavorwire.com/459699/yes-all-men-every-man-needs-to-understand-internalized-misogyny-and-male-violence?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow&utm_campaign=FlavorwireSocial
Although most this applies to will be out of your prescribed age range, this would apply to young married men:
Game after marriage: how to keep the wife excited and motivated to stay thin and sexy.
What is "frame," and how do I maintain it?
Why do women shit test, and how do I nuke that kind of nonsense in the onset of the relationship?
How come girls say one thing, yet do another? Girls will say they want a great guy for a relationship, yet will drop their drawers for an obvious ONS with a guy with no relationship value at all, and rendering her marriage value lower
I'm outside your intended age target, but I'd like to see it explained to young men that pick up artistry is not the same as game and reasons why one should avoid the former in order to master the latter.
How to manage oneitis? Why is it bad for relationships, what to do about it?
How to implement game in non-cheesy ways ("stylelife challenge" anyone?). There are vert many great and helpful insights out there in the manosphere, but I'm not sure it is enough for most deltas (particularly introverted deltas). Basically, it would be helpful to have some sort of "game kata". Wherein one could internalize game principles to the point where good moves are more likely to be nonconscious and automatic. I don't know if that is even possible.
But like most any sport, contest, game, conflict etc, there usually isn't time for the less gifted to logically determine their next move through considered reflection. This lag almost inevitably leads one into the meat grinder and disqualification.
Maybe add a list of additional resources too, like Rollo's and Athol's books. Not everyone who reads your book would know about the other help available.
Hey Vox, what do you think about the idea of courting instead of dating and what about arranged marriages?
Just wondering...
http://www.bakadesuyo.com/2011/08/is-there-a-shortcut-to-bonding-with-a-romanti/
Make the questions progressive to create a narrative. Something like:
1) Why doesn't she like me?
2) So then, what does she like?
3) How do I honestly evaluate my own SMV?
4) What then, can I do to improve my SMV?
5) I'm shy, so how do I start?
6) Ok, doing better, a girl smiled at me today, what next?
7) This is hard work, and frustrating, how do I stay focused on improving?
8) Everywhere I go is a sausage fest, where can I go to actually meet women?
9) Should I bother with online dating, how does that work?
10) I'm broke, how to I compensate when on a tight budget?
11) I'm short, but so is Tom Cruise, how can I be more like Tom Cruise?
12) I'm a nice guy, and I like being nice, is there a way to turn that into an advantage?
13) etc....
I'll post more if I can think of 'em.
10 ways I can tell that I am a normal guy, No matter what they say.
How can I grow to genuinely like women? (I.e. overcoming red pill bitterness, or "benevolent sexism" as I've heard it termed))
How to acquire social intelligence?
How to form male friendships? (Most tangential, but forming other male relationships is somewhat Gamey, isn't it?)
The main problem with young men of that age is that they do not even know what questions to ask. So showing them the right answers might well sound strange and unconvincing to them because those were not the questions in their misguided minds to begin with. And, of course, the things that they need to get do not fit into their misguided questions.
For example, one of their huge problems is identifying red flags, let alone react properly. But that does not fit well the question-answer format.
Vox, may I suggest a different approach?
Have you considered writing about this in a fiction format? There are plenty of books out there nowadays about how to use game to get women and they all tend to be schematic if not directly FAQ-type.
But if anyone in the Androsphere can combine those concepts with entertaining fiction is you. You have a huge advantage there that most list-writers can’t get even close to. A collection of short stories would be far more innovative and attractive, imho. And that can always include an explicit explanation if necessary.
Why write something that sounds so much like what so many others are doing when you can write something so creative that they could never match it?
For what it's worth, I think Antonio From Spain is on to something...
Like a collection of Poe short stories, but nobody dies or is tortured to death.
My question: What should I do when old boyfriends call? (Mate Guarding)
Perhaps an Obi-wan Kenobi training a young Skywalker in the Jedi ways of game. As it were.
Speaking of fiction with game concepts - The Altar by: Samuel Solomon is a good book. Though, it is out of the age group Vox is trying to reach. It is geared to those who are already married, midlife, and for both sexes.
"When I make a girl nervous, I get turned on. How come it doesn't work the other way?"
What to look for in a wife.
Many guys have no idea, and drift toward the physically attractive, who may or may not be sane. They may try to replace their mother, which doesn't work either.
One that's important, but that most guys wouldn't think to ask is: "Why does it matter that she doesn't like me?" The answer of course is that it doesn't really matter (or matters far less than you think it does).
How do I get her to take deliveries in the backdoor?
OH and Mike from Spain is on to something. A book of fictional snippets where even the most Asperger-y of guys can see basic principles. You could even have a small appendix at the end of each chapter on the why and how. Anyone can read lists or how-tos, but many people don't see until they've experienced it or watched others do it.
"Women I'm attracted to are attracted to assholes and badboys. Should I go on a shooting rampage?"
Why don't girls like "nice guys"?
How do I get my gf to agree to a threesome with another woman?
How to balance game with Christian morality.
I would challenge you to keep it all consistent with godly morals, something that is a bit rare in the area. Make it self contained so readers don't have to go to the sites that clearly go against what God promotes (fidelity, sex inside marriage, etc.).
That assumes you believe the latter of course.
Where do I turn to break the destructive patterns that I was taught by my father (or lack thereof) and mother?
Frankly, the internet is not a helpful source of information since it is only information and does not provide direct learning/training opportunities.
1. How to know when she's running game on me?
2. How to run text game when looking for an LTR?
3. I'm a nice guy but I've taken the red pill, now how do I keep from slipping back?
4. How to know She's Just Not That Into Me and when to walk?
5. How to instill in her, her place in the hierarchy -- especially when she's a single mom?
6. I'm interesting. I take care of myself and my son. I'd date me. How to keep her interested in dating me for the long run.
7. Why women in their 40's should be doing their best in their waning years, yet still act like men in a bar, and think they have as many options as they did at 22?
8. If I really do want an LTR (and marriage), how the hell do I spin plates? It's one of the tougher parts of the red pill.
9. How do I avoid the online thing? It's tempting, but the quality is lower -- yet from a numbers perspective, it's the best way to plant a thousand seeds and harvest a few flowers.
10. If she is into me, how do I know, how do I make sure she stays into me, doesn't cheat, doesn't decide she can do better, and bolt?
Game ~ Christianity.
Why do Game and Red Pill thinking get a bad rap from Churchians?
What's wrong with American women?
Which countries should I travel to in order to find a normal woman?
1) Who determines if I'm a "real" man? (options might be: myself, other men, women in general, a woman in particular, etc.)
2) Should I wait to pursue women until... (options: I graduate high school, I move to a larger town with more girls to "next" if needed, go to college, get a job, etc.)
3) If I'm a Christian, do I seek purity, experience, or an early bride to maintain purity in experience?
4) Commitment: what is it, how valuable is it, when should I offer it, under what terms should I retract it?
5) Selection: do I exploit the fallen, confused, feminist habits of easy women or seek someone with whom to make a stand against this culture?
6) What do I want, and how can I be trained to discover what I want, what I'm good at, and what other people will value me for?
As a 39-year-old with a 10-year-old son, those are the kinds of questions I see on his horizon. Would be quite interested in your take on them.
Which countries should I travel to in order to find a normal woman?
I know what you meant, but we're all normal women. You have to look at what women are taught growing up, to find what you mean by normal. AWALT and all that.
~ Stingray
Vincent Castrillo said: How do I get her to take deliveries in the backdoor?
Okay; this is why I read here. My dog thinks I'm choking.
How about...
Will what I do with her be kept secret? Or something along those lines.
Young men need to understand that everything they do will be known, probably with a spin (positive or negative, rightly or wrongly), and by everyone he and she knows and some people that didn't know either of them until the story got out. It always gets out. Women are social that way, and talk, talk, talk. And... how to deal with that.
The whole notion of "don't kiss and tell" is about women wanting to tell first, put their spin on it, and decide where to start the spider web of information (disinformation), if even males have become pissy little gossips too, these days. Still, it's a good thing to cover. I know that busted my ass a couple of times. Junior high and high school are wretched for that. Thankfully, women, when you are a minor, do keep their traps shut. When living at home as a minor, I couldn't move, change jobs, stuck... Bleh.
"Game after marriage: how to keep the wife excited and motivated to stay thin and sexy."
Vox, I really hope you make this the follow up book. Attracting, dating and bedding nubile women was a cake walk compared with the unending siege war that is modern marriage. Not being able to "next" and start over with a new girl from the bountiful girl tree (without losing half your assets and all your children) is a total game changer, no pun intended.
Back on topic. In order to maximize the book's effectiveness, be specific and concrete when answering the questions. After establishing the the concept, give plenty of examples, and if there's any way to print it in flow chart form, then chart out it for the 'Spergier fellows. For example, Roissy's "agree & amplify" series makes a great template for if/then specificity. Shit Test? ---> Yes ---> Agree with False Premise ---> Amplify to Logical Point of Absurdity ---> Smirk ---> End Routine.
How does a man retain a sexually dominant frame in today's oversexed world? Modern women equate the failure to sexually escalate with weakness, so how can this best be overcome?
--Martel
I have taught quite a few men about Game, but I have one very tough one to overcome.
How to overcome the anger that can come from learning how women really are? It may sound silly, but a lot of guys have hang ups about this stuff.
1) How do I make myself attractive?
2) How important are guy friends?
3) What if I don't fit the conventional mold of masculinity (I'm not outdoorsy, handy, beefy, enjoy sports, etc.)?
4) How does being a Christian affect game?
5) Should I go to church to find a wife?
6) If I go to church, how should I find a wife?
7) How do I discover what I'm good at it and market those qualities as attractive?
8) How do I turn my introversion into an asset?
9) My father was emotionally absent from my life, how do I find positive male models?
10) I have a very close relationship with my mom. How can I tell if it's too close?
I would start with the above. Tucker Max is working on something like this as well. His first 8 posts are compelling.
http://www.thematinggrounds.com/new-start-here/
In the first sentence I meant to say "chase man"
Actually, "chaste".
I don't think I've ever made a comment on one of Vox's sites without at least one typo.
--Martel
@ Joseph
I would just tell them to accept the fact that women are just as fallen, depraved and sinful as men, though in different ways.
The idea that women are somehow more pure, wholesome, and moral than men, while perhaps comforting, is not Biblical.
comments tl dr
How about "What the frack am I SUPPOSED to be doing?!?!?"
One thing that women find very attractive is a man with purpose. How do you find/adopt/invent purpose? (Queue Steve Martin fans.) Should you fake it?
How can I make my wife feel loved?
Is negging (or other tools) mean?
Harold,
How am I able to send more money home next week because my friend Patty has promised me a blow job?
But more seriously, being just over the age of the target demo, kids are being more and more programmed to think girls and boys are the same. So the first question needs to be something like:
i've been told we're all the same, but something feels wrong with that. Why?"
What is she, some great piece of ass?
On growing up with a dad teaching us brothers with no sisters to white knight:
Why doesn't what dad told me work? What does work?
Is negging (or other tools) mean?
Isn't it supposed to be mean? I think the bigger problem with negging is that it is a passive-aggressive, effeminate behavior.
How does a chaste man retain a sexually dominant frame in today's oversexed world? Modern women equate the failure to sexually escalate with weakness, so how can this best be overcome?
That's an excellent question, and one of the few that I haven't seen a great answer for in years of discussing game. Most women (including most girls you meet at church) are DTF within a date or two anyway, so if you bring solid Game, she's groping you under the table before the waiter brings the main course. The best answer I've come up with is that you have to raise your dominance in other ways to make up for the fact that you're not dominating her sexually. But that's a real balancing act, because the more dominant you are with her, and the more she responds to it, the more you're both going to want to get on with it.
"How does a chaste man retain a sexually dominant frame in today's oversexed world? Modern women equate the failure to sexually escalate with weakness, so how can this best be overcome?"
I'm thinking the answer is not to spend time with women unless you need to for some reason. I've had the practice of just cutting off a dynamic that's leading toward sex, but it's always awkward and makes me look like a loser. It seems like the only way to keep dominance is to go through to fornication or keep everything out of that vicinity entirely.
@ cail/Weouro: I've been able to use a refusal to sleep with women as a dominance tool in and of itself for short periods of time. ("You think I'm gonna put out that easy?", etc.) However, this was when I wasn't chaste myself, so it was basically a re-frame to get her to chase me. Eventually, I'd succumb.
However, now I take my commitments more seriously, and I'm not sure how I'd maintain that frame over a longer period of time. Also, like y'all say, if I'm successful at seeming unattainable and putting her into the role of chaser, she gets turned on, and it gets quite a bit harder for ME to refrain. Making a girl who wants you wait is doable for a date or two. How the hell could I possibly hold out if I'm spending serious time with a woman who's dying to have me destroy her?
So I guest a follow-up question would be about maintaing that sort of strength. Men aren't wired to be the ones holding back on sex.
--Martel
Should I even want to get married?
When is the best age for me to look to marriage?
How old should a woman be before I consider marriage?
What are the three most important qualities to look for in a prospective wife?
How important is my wife’s premarital chastity to having a successful marriage?
Should I marry a career woman?
Is intelligence good or bad in a woman?
What should I look for in my prospective wife’s family?
What if she’s had an abortion?
What if she says she’s been raped but nothing was ever reported and even her parents don’t know?
Does it matter if her parents are still together?
What about all the mumbo-jumbo leadership/submission model in the Bible? That doesn’t hold today, does it?
If she admits to being with one other man, does that disqualify her from consideration?
She can’t stand being around children. Will she change after we’re married?
I want a large family, she doesn’t want kids. What should I do?
She told me it’s okay with her if I want to lead the family. Isn’t that good?
She seems self-centered. Will she outgrow that?
I save 10% of what I earn but she spends every nickel and then some. Should that be a big concern?
She tells me she is pure but she hangs out with sluts. She tells me that this shouldn’t bother me.
Her career is very important to her and she wants to become a doctor. Is this good or bad?
She’s moody and tells me she’s bi-polar. Should I be concerned?
THE REAL DEAL: How to be sure she believes she is crazy lucky to be with me, and how to keep her feeling that way.
Joseph,
This is where I would be blunt (when am I not though?) and tell the man to "grow a pair". Life is hard, so what? Are you going to whine about it or overcome it? Being an idiot in the past doesn't mean you have to be one in the future.
Too many get stuck in their anger though, so I would tend to treat this like one who refused to put God's Word first in any other area.
Yes, yes. THANK -- YOU VOX for this. It's about time we have a Christian man write a no-nonsense book on these matters.
Can't say it enough. I also think it would be helpful for you in writing your book if you can draw parallels from the Bible in writing your book. Reference a King James.
{On your question}:
"Given that the focus is on young men from 15-25, what are the questions you would most like to see addressed and answered in this book?"
A lot of people here have been giving some really great questions and suggestions. (Scrolling up & down the comments ...)
Yeah, I definitely like Sleepy's, Antonio From Spain's, Brad Andrews', David Brady's, Slarrow's, zxvv's, Fred Mok's and RC's ideas. And many others.
Definitely Vox if you write this, it should have a "BIBLICAL FOUNDATION" under the TRUTH of God's Word.
I'm sick of the secular, worldly Game/p.u.a. sector of the manosphere that's ultimately not about the "TRUTH" that matters if you hear me.
Well, this is some good news. I'll be informing others.
You (or anyone) can reach me @ ghostofalphaspast.blogspot.com. I'm currently working on similar themes. I may pass on some to you if you're interested.
Stay Strong.
~ EL
1.
I would agree that I find too few examples of what to do here and in other sites with a more Christian focus. Examples are better than just having theory in a book like this. A spectrum of examples is good too, since all situations and individuals are not the same, even if trends are similar.
I recently read "The Way of Men" and Mr. Donovan made an interesting point with regards to "being a good man" vs "being good at being a man." How would one attack this within the frame of Christian faith while learning to play the Game?
Being a Good Man (TM) only goes so far in the Game while being good at Being a Man isn't well addressed by the Church if at all (pick your flavor, I'm Catholic myself). How does one reconcile?
"How does a chaste man retain a sexually dominant frame in today's oversexed world? Modern women equate the failure to sexually escalate with weakness, so how can this best be overcome?"
While I'm not an expert, qualify like crazy. You're looking for a wife, make it clear that if she doesn't meet your standards you walk. If she doesn't make the cut then you won't have to worry about her responses after two dates, because there will only be one.
In my late teens, I bought a book by Eric Berne called "What Do You Say After You Say Hello?" Sadly, the book didn't really address the question, but it was my number-one most baffling question then, and still one I think about a lot three decades later.
But other than that, my biggest problem as a young man was that I never asked the right questions. It would never have occurred to me to ask "Should I always give women everything they want?", "Is showing off my intellectual knowledge a good way to impress women?", "Will a loving relationship just happen naturally when I meet a woman I'm really compatible with?", "Are my interactions with women entirely determined by the words we say to each other?" I was not even mentally capable of contemplating those questions, because my imagination was not powerful enough to ever consider that they were any different from asking "Is one and one two?" When I was introduced to the concept that withholding something a woman wants could make me seem more attractive, I was shocked out of my mind. It took me months to even be able to compute with this new information. And it took me a loooooong time to get that in being with women, the words I say are usually the least important aspect. (After all, what else is there?)
Perhaps the best format for a book like this, or at least a chapter, would be to identify the common misconceptions and attack them directly. And Antonio has a point about stories. The most galvanizing part of learning game has been has been hearing real-life stories where a man shows some spine and a woman gets turned on. They're both visceral and (to the former me) utterly, completely counterintuitive. Specific reports about real seductions have been the bread and butter of my learning, both because they fire my desire to accomplish the same things, and because they help convince me that crazy ideas (like doing physical escalation without verbalizing it first) actually work.
How do I talk with girls?
Is it okay to date girls who are the same age as myself? What age girl should I be pursuing? Why do all the girls my age like older boys?
When I try to hold a conversation with a girl about something serious, she seems to get bored quickly. What do I do with this situation?
How come none of the girls my age take life seriously? How come none of them have any realistic long term plans or think realistically about the future?
How come almost all the girls my age are CRAZY about the latest boy band/movie star/etc when it is pretty obvious that they have zero chance of getting that boy?
Just a few questions I might have had and I anticipate my son having when 15-25.
What are the odds that this girl I'm in love with is the only one for me?
Oneitis is brutal and even borderline idolatrous for the romantically-inclined, especially in that age group, and even more so if they have religious parents who've taught them to believe the fallacy that there is only one soul mate that God intended for them. I cannot think of any scriptural indication that such is true, any more than than the Bible teaches there's only one career path that can lead to fulfillment. It's a myth that needs to die, and usually does die with time and experience, except for those lucky few who actually married their childhood sweetheart and grew old together.. The sooner this myth dies, the better, especially because it encourages men to have a fatalistic view of the way they approach their already emotion-clouded inter-sexual relationships, rather than taking control and responsibility for making a choice using the discernment God gave them.
* The girl I'm interested in has been in more relationships than me. How should I approach this?
* I let out those three words while we were making out, and now I feel like I screwed up. Maybe I wanted to tell her I love her eventually, but have I leaped in too soon? What should I do?
* How do I answer girls' stupid questions like, "What are you thinking right now?"
* I'm interested in a girl/early in a dating relationship, but when should I start thinking about her marriage value?
* How do I assess a woman's marriage value? What factors should I look at? What are the most important positives? What should set of panicked warning bells? (Everything from her parents' relationship, her relationships with her parents and siblings, how she acts around kids, her dating history, her choice of friends, her political and social views, her eating habits, her intelligence, her educational level, her career aspirations, her family aspirations, her looks, etc.)
* We had sex, and then she started acting differently toward me. (Clingy, demanding, or whatever.) I don't like it. What should I do?
"Women I'm attracted to are attracted to assholes and badboys. Should I go on a shooting rampage?"
If Rodgers hadn't made those videos and the whiny manifesto (or maybe just stuck with the manifesto and left out the exceedingly creepy videos) and hadn't offed himself after murdering six others, I guarantee that he'd be getting dozens of dating and even marriage offers from women wanting a notorious bad boy, even in prison.
No, don't go on a shooting rampage. But if you do, don't be so stupid as to waste the attention you'll get by shooting yourself.
What are the warning signs she's cheating on me or getting ready to dump me?
1) How do I pursue a girl who shows interest in me, in a socially artificial context such as the church?
2) How should I respond to all the churchian religious bullshit on dating and marriage such as:
* God won't give you a girlfriend until...
* I wasn't even looking for a girlfriend/wife, I was just focusing on God (implying one doesn't need to look and only focus on God / be faithful)
* It's idolatry
* It's not emotionally healthy
* You just need to work hard
3) Since the church generally doesn't have answers on dating / pursuing marriage that actually work, how can I apply Game and practical solutions in faith while maintaining my integrity and trusting God to lead me to the right wife?
Reading all the comments here, so many of them are well thought out and far deeper than the project you seem to have in mind. You need book series, one that might even have multiple authors.
A little late to this party, but a common fallacy which hasn't been brought up is:
Game? Sounds like it might work, but... I don't want to become someone I'm not. That's not me, man.
I guess in question form that could be phrased as "How can I still be myself and use Game? Wouldn't I just become some stuckup douche?" (of course the answer is "No, you wouldn't" because, much like with lifting, you don't look or become someone else, you remain yourself, just with more muscle/confidence)
One I always struggled with is "okay, she seems to like me, now what?". I was a great flirt, but I knew nothing about how to escalate. Like a dog with a bus' wheel in his mouth, I felt good about myself for catching the bus, but I had no idea what to do next.
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